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  1. #1
    Phero Pro jose's Avatar
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    Default Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

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    Anybody have any ideas about mixing Andro1? How much .ml of each, I would appreciate any suggestions. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

    [ March 23, 2002: Message edited by: Bruce ]

  2. #2
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    jose,

    My game plan is to let my nose decide.
    As guidelines, on one hand we have the incredibly lightweight concentration of \"that cologne\", and on the other, Scientist\'s recommendation of using .1mL per dose, which is .1mg of stuff/dose, or about 5 times the optimal dose for A-None.

    I\'m going to make TINY experimental batches of Aqua di Gio/stuff, like 5 drops AdG to 1 drop stuff, and adjust as needed. 10 drops of AdG might be more like it since the stuff is 1mg/mL.

    If this stuff smells like A-None, as Thunder reported in his experiment thread, I\'m a little apprehensive about putting on two drops, which is a conservative translation of .1mL per application.

    I\'ll definitely choose to err on the chickenshit side at first, but will eventually push the limits toward OD before too long. [img]images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

    Oscar [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    I can report that the stuff smells a tiny bit like a-none. Emphasize tiny. The scent is incredibly weak. Masking this stuff will be a peice of cake even in high doses. I spread a drop on the back of my hand and can barely smell it.

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    Phero Pro jose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    Thanks Oscar, I\'ll get mine next week. I think I\'ll try it raw for now, lets hope my experiments succeed. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    The stuff smells weak, Scientist? Oh oh... This worries me. According to everything I read and Thunder\'s report, it\'s suppose to smell like and be just oderous as -none. I hope Phil Stone got the first batch right, or we may all have failed experiments. =P.

    Ilurbu, did you batch made by ThinkerChem smell strong?

  6. #6
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    Gents,

    AMAZING! Two days from Colorado to Philly! First class mail, $1.26 postage.
    The postal gods have smiled upon me today! [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

    I put one drop in the palm of my hand and I\'ll agree that it\'s not as stinky as I had expected. But I still plan to proceed cautiously.
    I\'ll cite Absinthe 120 proof as an example here. Straight from the bottle the aroma is not as intense as it becomes after it\'s mixed with water. Once diluted it releases its full bouquet. Until I find out otherwise, I\'m going to assume that this stuff might just do the same when mixed with cologne.

    The smell is really familiar, just can\'t place it yet. It\'s like A-None, but a bit less BO-like. There\'s a shade of Rone\'s scent in there too, I think. I like it!

    Thanks Bruce! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Back to the lab!
    Oscar [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    Those of you who are making scent comparisons with -none, are you comparing it to the -none in the chem kit also from Stone Labs? I heard the Stone Labs product don\'t smell as bad at the same concentrations as LaCroy and others.

  8. #8
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    truth,

    I\'d say that stink-wise it compares favorably to the kit A-None from Stone.
    Maybe 1/2 to 2/3 as smelly.

    It\'s WAY LESS stinky than NPA or PI, like 1/5 as pungent.

    All of Stone\'s stuff smells better than other manufacturer\'s products. I wouldn\'t worry about this.

    I need to mix some with some Aqua di Gio or Issey to get a more definitive comparison though.

    Oscar [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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    Administrator Bruce's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    I feel certain we can trust both Stone and LaCroy to be right on target with the concentrations/promised mg per bottle. A while back there was some discussion about how much of this BO smell might actually be attributable to the reagent chemicals used to catalyze the production of the pheromones. These chemicals are refinded out of the final product to a great extent but it is technically posible that a \"cleaner\" product would not smell as much as its less refined cousin containing an identical amount of a particular pheromone. So that is conceivably an issue, BUT keep in mind that Stone Labs does not manufacture the pheromones in Andro1. They are purchased by the gram diluted and divided up between the right number of bottles to create the promised # of mg per bottle based on the dry wt of the original sample. At least that is the impression I got. I know they don\'t make that. It is not all that easy cranking these chemicals out. LaCroy is a major chemical/pharmaceutical manufacturer, and they are off in S. Africa. I always figured they make what they use in the products.
    Cheers,
    Bruce

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    I agree with Bruce. We all are pretty aware of how similar these molecules are to each other, yet some have a heck of a lot more smell than others. So, the precursors will probably also smell. Stone labs is interested in giving us the pure chemicals, and will charge us for the best level of purity they can get. But other products, ones that do not always give out the ingredients, can go for the lowest priced source (or purity if they produce the mones themselves) I know that nothing is pure, it is a relative thing. But, if the Stone products are \"more\" pure than other ones we play with, the odor might be less. Makes sense to me in a whacked out chemist way. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    OK, Oscar, I\'m glad to hear that the andro-1 doesn\'t smell much weaker than the chem kit -none. Everybody is the happy with the potency of the chem kit -none, right?

    So, the -none in NPA and PI are twice as stinky as the chem kit -none (?). In that case, have people been able to mix the chem kit -none at a lower cologne to phero ratio?

    Well, I didn\'t get my andro-1 in the mail today. :-(. Hope some of you test it out tonight and give us a preview!

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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    I bought my product from steroliods and mixed it with 95% ethanol. Maybe the different manufacturers are the reason for the smell difference. My is at least 2/3 as pungent as -none and it\'s dilluted twice as much as the product from stone. I have not recieved my Stone product yet but when I do I guess I can make the same mixture and compare. My chem\'s were dirty. huh?
    Oh yeah. It did produce much more odor when mixed as opposed to just raw form. Thunder

    [ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: Thunder ]

    [ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: Thunder ]

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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    Well, Thunder, you will be the gold standard to check the potency of our andro-1 from Stone. I hope the girls keep licking you when you use the Stone products. =)

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    Oscar, I noticed the same thing about the new stuff\'s smell. I actually kind of like it, and it\'s familiar but hard to place... I think it vaguely smells like an attractive woman\'s skin, but maybe that\'s my wishful thinking.

  15. #15
    Phero Pro jose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    bump

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    I do not think that you can mess up the isomers. There are two double bonds, and one keto group. In all cases, those are not stereo specific sites. You need 4 different things attached to a carbon to make it stereo specific (or chiral.)

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    Hmm... No positive experiences reported with andro-1 yet. I guess we\'ll have more of a verdict by next week.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    Gents,

    there are two mirror images of this molecule if I remember correctly labeled + and -

    I have not seen companies selling this stating if it is a + or - form or a mixture. \"enantiomers\" i believe is the correct term. As I understand it it is more trouble to create a single \"optical isomer\" or \"enantiomer\" or whatever the current term is, than the mix of the two. It could depend on the source of the raw product as to its precise content. This of course applies to all pheros, but could explain why stone labs products are less stinky than lacroys. Maybe lacroy are ensuring they only use one enantiomer or blah blah..

    I hate the way scientists use copious \"gobbledegook\".

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    OK, I suppose that you could try for a mirror image (yes an enantiomer) but, I am willing to bet this is not the case. With the alcohol forms of the pheros, there is the option for the other chiral options to happen, and you end up with a \"d or l\" form (e or z in chem) or all of the other fun little distinctions. Oddly enough in the case of the groovie new chem, or andro1, that isn\'t possible. To get the mirror image of a 4 membered ring structure is a bit tougher.

    And quite honestly, all of the \"gobbledegook,\" or what ever you refered to it as, is helpful to those who know what it means.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    gents

    Just a thought, are they producing the correct isomer or a mix of the two isomers?

    ie: do they realise that only one isomer is bio active a stinks the other I will think you will find has no odour and as is common with all biochems is inactive. Just a thought...

    I think have have the correct terms, chem is not my subject and its a long time since I studied it..

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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    well chinese is useful to chinese people but I wouldn\'t want to learn it! ;~}

    I got onto this track \'cos I came across a site with the molecule in question shown in two mirror image forms. It was a site concerned with olfaction and it stated that one form had a strong smell and the other didn\'t. I will attempt to locate it again.

    ps The only word I need in any language is the one that describes beer... ;~}}

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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?


  23. #23
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    At the bottom of the page for androstenone it comments on enantiomeres. Maybe you have something there ratspeaker.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    Well, the site is nice, I don\'t have chime (The things I am too impatient to install) and it showns the nice molecular structures. But, physiologically, the one on the right hand side (the one that smells) is the one that is important. Since the body starts with cholesterol, and goes through a mountain of steps to make the compounds, the one that corresponds to cholesterol is the only one the bod can make. I am pretty sure that the other one would only break down chemically, not biochemically.

    Yeah, beer is the first word I generally learn. Most often followed by bathroom...

  25. #25
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    Okay,

    I finally got around to doing some mixing with A1. I sprayed Aqua di Gio into a wide-mouthed bottle 50 times. This usually yields 3 drops per spray, but when I eye-droppered it out it came to 171 drops.
    Figuring I wanted a 5:1 ratio, I proceeded to add 34 drops of A1 with a matched eyedropper. The resulting mix was so NON-phero smelling that I decided to kick it all the way up to 3:1!

    After adding a total of 57 drops of A1, the mix started to smell phero-like, but still not as intense as AdG/NPA at 5:1! And this stuff\'s twice as concentrated. It might bloom after steeping a bit. I\'ll keep my nostrils peeled. (OUCH!)

    Tonight\'s the road-test. Karaoke, Yuengling Lager, AdG, and A1.
    Hopefully a recipe for success.
    Definitely a recipe for FUN! [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

    Oscar [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    P.S. The 228 drops only came a little bit more than half-way up the 10mL atomizer bottle. So much for the 20 drops/mL guideline when it comes to ethanol based stuff when using eyedroppers. I\'m guessing that I\'m looking at @40-45 drops/mL here.
    Your mileage may vary. Adjust accordingly.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    Woo... 3:1 using a 1mg/ml concentrate?! I guess I\'d mix it at a higher ratio just so that I can dose more accurately using an atomizer! One spray of a 3:1 mix will give you more than 0.02 mg.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    Well
    After consideration, it would seem that we are back to the idea that different phero manufacturers could be unconcerned as to which enantiomer they are supplying. Both possess the same generic name. It should be noted however that A1 is considered less stinky than -none. It does however throw a new complexity to the situation, in that we do not know what grade of chemical is being used in the products we purchase. I was always much happier refering to these as the L & D forms.

    ps after enough beer the word for bathroom is unimportant...hic

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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    \"It should be noted however that A1 is considered less stinky than -none.\"

    I actually haven\'t seen this stated in the literature though.

  29. #29
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    truth,

    Granted, 3:1 does sound a bit heavy-handed. I decided to reverse my proposed strategy of starting out conservatively and building toward OD level. I want to see results, even if they\'re negative, just to gauge the effectiveness of this stuff. I figure I can dilute it as necessary once a reaction has been seen.

    I\'m pretty good at charting and applying scientific method. What I lack that some others have is the willingness to sacrifice for science. My results with my usual phero strategies are so gratifying that I can barely bring myself to leave out A-None or A-Nol etc. in order to test this stuff.
    I suppose that we all have our shortcomings! [img]images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

    Oscar [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: Any suggestions on mixing Andro1?

    Interesting document with the two andro-1\'s, ratspeaker. Too bad I don\'t have the biochemistry background to understand what the difference between the two are. I guess Steraloids is sure to cell the biological active form, since it specializes in steroids. I don\'t know where Stone Labs purchased their andro-1 from. I heard they don\'t make it themselves.

    By the way, Steraloids was the source of the andro-1 used in a recent study yielding positive results and also the source of Thunder who had girls licking him. =).

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