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  1. #1
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Default Current politics in the US

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    We've had

    some pretty good discussions on political/social matter here, but it seems the whole subject has fallen by the

    wayside.

    Its curious that no one is posting about the most comprehensive and radical attempt at restructuring our

    country and society that's currently taking place.

    I kind of spoke my mind in one thread and probably pissed off

    a member or seven, but that's no reason to end any discussion. Politics is a dirty game, as the current

    administration, like others before it, is proving in spades.

    I think I'll use this thread to post opinion and

    news reports from various sources, both domestic and international.

    It would be nice to hear some commentary

    from the entire spectrum of opinion. Passionate opinion is most welcome if its in the realm of ideas, and not

    personal attacks.

    The founders of this country fought each other before, during and after the Constitutional

    Convention. The signing of the Constitution brought decades of intense debate on working out the crucial tenants of

    a free society based on the highest ideals of government ever articulated in a single document. Their hatred of

    tyranny bonded them in the midst of their disagreements on how to form a government which protected our new society

    from such abuses of power as were imposed by absolute monarchs.

    That this debate should continue is part of

    being American, and is essential to keeping our society free from tyrants, both foreign and domestic.

    A tyrant is

    measured by the limits he imposes upon the freedom of any individual. These limits take many forms, and always

    begin with subtle restrictions and penalties. A more advanced tyrant will impose himself on a society at large with

    supplications to its weaker elements.

    What we are facing today is a combination of willing conformity seduced by

    some false ideal of political correctness, and an uneducated apathy which selfishly looks for the shallowest water

    in which to wash their collective conscience.

    These are only my opinions of course, and I'd love to hear

    differences. More to follow.


  2. #2
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    I'm a great fan of Thomas

    Jefferson, who often wrote about the limitations to be placed on a governemnt. If you look at it, the constitution

    and the bill of rights are more a list of things the governemnt should not do than anything else.

    From my

    perspective, the primary function of the federal government is to protect our shores. That does not include

    involving us in foreign wars or making us the police for the entire world. Unfortunately, our government is failing

    at the most important function it has, as demonstrated by the constant flood of illegal aliens into our country and

    the ready acceptance of them by so many members of the government.

    While our governemnt fails to protect our

    borders, it spends most of its capital doing things that can be construed as outside the authority of the federal

    sphere, such as regulating marriage, instituting federal health and welfare programs and attempting to regulate how

    we live. These functions are constitutionally state powers and should never have been relinquished to the federal

    government.

    I believe that the powers of the federal government should be sharply curtailed to the levels

    intended by the framers of the constitution and the power hungry men in women now in elected office should be

    replaced with a true citizen legislature. However, that isn't going to happen while we continue to vote the same

    pack of liars, fools and frauds into office year after year. So long as we continue to believe the government has

    our best interests at heart and the taxation is the answer to everything, that a nanny government is in our best

    interests, we are doomed to failure.

    Something needs to change. In my opinion, we are on a downhil slide into

    socialism and that only leads to ruin eventually.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
    Phero Guru Rbt's Avatar
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    Default

    I can understand the sentiments and

    feelings, but I lean more toward coming to these forums for info on pheromones, social interaction, etc, and not

    politics or religion.

    All I will say is that this is a nation that is still "under construction." We broke away

    from the European model of monarchy and a hodgepodge of independent kingdoms (call them warlords if you wish to put

    it in to today's terms). We continue to experiement with our own form of representative democracy.

    Fought a

    "War Between The States" over the form that a central govenment should take, a "federal" system under which the laws

    of the states are ranked under those of the central government, or the opposite, or "con-federal" government, in

    which the laws of each state trumped the laws of the central government. Something that in many ways still really

    isn't settled yet (ref: "marriage" laws [really the legal term "wed" should be used], and drug laws [as in

    marijuana use]).

    The pendulum may swing, but so far it has never lingered long in the extremes.

    And as for

    immigration? Legal or otherwise. I would far rather live in a county that people are willing to risk their lives to

    get IN to rather than get OUT of.

    It's too early in my morning for me to say much more than that...
    The opposite of love isn't hate.
    It's apathy
    .

  4. #4
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth View Post
    If you

    look at it, the constitution and the bill of rights are more a list of things the governemnt should not do than

    anything else.


    That's exactly the main point here Bel. The framers knew very well the tyranny they

    had experienced, and they knew that to avoid it in this country severe limits had to be placed on the Federal side.

    All powers not specifically enumerated are to relegated to the States.

    I'm not so concerned about

    the downward march toward Socialism, that began a long time ago and will continue, only now - with this

    administration - at light speed. What I think is happening is that, as a country, we're blindly relinquishing

    core freedoms in the most personal areas of our lives.

    Political correctness is not a joke, and it has become

    joined at the hip with the nanny mentality to unprecedented levels. What now may seem good or innocuous to some;

    bans on trans-fats, exhorbitant taxation on alcohol and tobacco, taxes on soda pop - all for the "greater good",

    will end up being but baby steps to a greater crime. If we accept the premise that we should be regulated and/or

    taxed for what should be purely personal choices, then we'll accept its logical conclusion, that the gov't is more

    capable of managing our lives.

    But - and this is an even more nefarious kicker to the equation - there are those

    who believe that they themselves are more capable of managing your life and your decisions than you are, and these

    people continually refer to the "common good".

    Intro to Federalist Papers; section 5;
    paragraph

    4.
    “…dangerous ambition more often lurks behind the specious mask of zeal for the rights of the people

    than under the zeal for a firm and efficient government.”

    The "right to health care" is artificial, and

    is being used to push the most blatant, calculated and egregious power grab in our history. Calling it "health care

    reform" is a purely cynical re-packaging. The economics are bad enough, and they are bad, but having the federal

    gov't instrumental in personal health decisions is Orwellian at best. This is the most personal and intimate part

    of any life, more than finances, marriage or any other area, and it has the greatest impact on the quality of

    physical life we each choose. To be required to pass these decisions through a gov't bureaucracy is beyond the

    pale of rational thinking.

    Conclusion: I can suffer (yet despise) a Socialist system, but I cannot suffer a

    totalitarian minority which claims special privilege to my wallet, my health and my Constitutional rights so well

    conceived 200+ years ago.

    I guess I'm an extremist for entertaining these silly notions.

    Finally, a word

    from our president on what the Constitution "should" say.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iivL4c_3pck


  5. #5
    Phero Dude
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    I am a firm believer in small

    government my self.The real trick is that our government also has the resonsability of regulating certain behaviors

    that may be harmful or dangerous to scociety as a whole.The unfortunate problem with government is that any

    government body has a nearly infinate capacity to screw up a free lunch.As a result of personal greed, self

    promotion and a sense of entitlement,our politicians have successfuly perverted what is supposed to be a noble

    profession into a perverse orgy of greed, gluttony, sloth and hedonism.With the help of wealthy individual

    contributors, companies and corperations they have sold us out and buried us under a moutain of totaly useless

    legislation designed to keep us monkeys in our cages.

    Its shocking the absolute disregard that the avaerage

    politician has for average people.They realy do think of us as monkeys that need to be protected from our selves.Its

    not hard to see why thier power is so intoxicating.I remember as a child going to the state capitol for a ceremony

    for my grandfather who had been an engineer for the state for many years.We arrived late in the evening and the sky

    was dark.I remember looking at the capitol building bathed in lights with flags flying high and huge magestic trees

    in the perfectly manacured grounds.The buildings were huge but the capitol itself realy stood out.The stone pillars

    and the huge mahogany doors.Walking into the building I was emediately faced with beutiful marble columns and

    handsome marble floors.An enormous chandalier hung from the celing.My grandfather explained that it weighed over two

    thousand pounds and that when Alaska had thier big earthquake in 1964 ( we live in Washington State)the chandalier

    swung back and forth nearly a foot and kept swinging from inertia alone for over a week.

    The mood in the

    building was somewhat like a church but seemed somehow bigger.Everything was big.The doors, the desks, the

    halls...everything.There was a very real sense of power in this place.A sense that great things happened here.And I

    was only a very young child.I had no idea what this building was for I just knew it was the most important place I

    had ever been.I think I was about five or so...

    Fast forward to the early 80's. I visited our nations capitol

    as a teenager with my mom.Walking across the capitol mall and seeing the reflecting pool and the Washington

    monument.The White House and the Capitol building brought all the feelings that I had when I was a child rushing

    into the present.The sense of power was overwhelming.The realization that the most powerful men in the

    country...even the world walked these grounds wasnt just an acedemic excersize...it was nearly a religious

    experiance.

    The people who lead us every day very likely feel the same way when they win the great popularity

    contest in thier states and collectively convene in Washington D.C. to make decisions on behalf of thier respective

    states.They very likely see the same buildings I saw and feel the sense of power and awe as they stroll the capitol

    grounds for the first time.When their staff continuously refer to them as "sir" and open doors for them.Cars are

    brought for them with the wave of a hand.Staffers tend to thier every need from filing and research to making sure

    thier drinks have enough ice in them.They wheel and deal with power brokers from all aspects of scociety.Captains of

    industry, bankers, lawyers, generals and lobyists.Even heads of state pay thier respects to these men and women.The

    sense of power and superiority must be absolutly epic.Better than winning a superbowl or a world series...those

    things are fleeting.This is something that these people live every day...day in and day out.And sooner or later it

    melts thier brains into the pile of crap that we call...politician.

    These egomaniacs are the ones that we are

    trusting to do the right thing for us.They use our tax dollars to buy expensive booze and even more expensive

    hookers and dont even try to act even alittle bit ashamed when they get called out for it.They will use even the

    most benevolent legislation to tack on "riders" so that thier friends can feed at the big government trough and

    think of it as an entitlement.They actualy think we work for them.Because after all...we are just a bunch of stupid

    monkeys.

    health care reform...Im all for it.Just not what our government is going to hand us.Banking

    reform...good luck...theres too many payoffs going on there.Trade reform...nevermind.

    Show me an honest and

    decent politician thats looking out for us and I will prove your halucinating.
    "The wages of sin is death.But after taxes it's just sort of a tired feeling realy." -Ellen DeGeneres

  6. #6
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Nice bit of writing Tim.



    I think your assessment parallels the narrative of our Democracy, from those who wield power to those

    who skim from the largesse of a prosperous nation for selfish reasons. The corruption of ideals is not exclusive to

    politicians, they're just the reflection of what we've allowed ourselves to become. And, its all the more

    egregious since they swear to uphold the constitution and claim to represent the people.

    Washington is an insular

    society, inbred from within its own self importance, driven by self perpetuation and no longer able to see past the

    rote ideological justifications of the class they've created for themselves. Indeed, having created a language

    where double-speak and hyperbole are accepted cases, they need only dip into a handful of weighty but meaningless

    phrases to bolster shallow consciences and deflect reality, and often the truth.


  7. #7
    Phero Dude
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    Thanks I appreciate your

    taking the time to read my ranting.

    The saddest part of our "democracy" is the disconnection betwen the

    politicians and the people.But what realy makes me angry...the kind of anger that can either keep you warm at night

    or drive you to drinking is that we, the people have all the power in the world to hold these people

    accountable.There is absolutly nothing in the political climate today that cannot be fixed by an angry mob with

    torches and pitch forks.Our country is fully capable(thanks to the second amendment) of correcting these issues in

    very short order.

    But...and its a very big but...It was found in the Roman empire that it was possible for

    government to do anything it wanted to do as long as the people were kept fed...and entertained.The romans spent

    vast amounts of money making sure that a certain amount of all the food stuffs produced were available to the poor

    and under priveliged and they spent even more money making sure that even in the far flung provinces that everyone

    had access to amphitheaters and coliseums and hipodromes and the public forums.By doing this they insured that

    people would be fed and distracted to the point that matters of government realy didnt show up on the regular

    persons radar.And if they did have a complaint they could go to the forum and bitch to thier hearts content and feel

    like they did something about it.Then it was off to the public baths to hang out and get clean and in many cases

    engage in other forms of "entertainment."

    Joseph Goebles figured this out too and encouraged the German

    equivilant of hollywood to make lots of movies that would keep people distracted and pumped up.The Government spent

    alot of money making sure people were either taken care of or if they were undesireable they simply disapeared.



    In our country we have something very similar but its even worse.Here, we have a comercial enterprise that rakes

    in hundreds of billions of dollars a year to keep us distracted.Between the internet, cable TV and hollywood we have

    achieved total control over ourselves.We actualy do it to ourselves.When we come home from work we grasp at our bowl

    of cheap pasta with cheap pasta goop from a can on top and spin in front of our computers or TV and the rest takes

    care of itself.The government doesnt even have to do anything except sit back and watch us do the job for them.



    Until the day comes that the lights dont come on when we flip the switch, the TV doesnt respond to the pressing of

    its various buttons, the computer stares at us darkly and the pasta bowl sits empty with no chance of being

    filled...we will continue to see the kind of insane greed and corruption that we see today.We are so distracted that

    in this day and age they dont even try to hide the corruption anymore.Corperate officers and politicians will stand

    on national TV and tell us that bank executives that ran thier companies into the ground and recieved government

    bailouts are going to recieve huge seven and eight figure bonuses for thier "performace" and nothing happens.There

    was a time in our nations history when that sort of behavior would have been met with brutal violence.And as a

    result this sort of thing just didnt happen or it happened very very quietly behind closed doors.Now they will look

    you in the eyes and say "what are you going to do about it?"

    When the lights go out...thats when things will

    change.But by then it will be way too late.
    "The wages of sin is death.But after taxes it's just sort of a tired feeling realy." -Ellen DeGeneres

  8. #8
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Blind, lazy, complacent,

    self-centered, materialistic consumerism? Us? Nahhh...

    I barely know where to begin. You're right of

    course, what we've done is promote and elect politicians and bosses to negotiate easy lives for ourselves, wherein

    luxuries are entitlements and victims are created out of hardships.

    As an aside, it occurs to me that the trend

    of celebrity-ism is an outcome of this. People assume vicariously the lives of the rich and famous, believing

    themselves as having the same qualities and privileges. So they put on the sunglasses, go on American Idol, and

    get insulted by an a__hole with a leftover Fonzie t-shirt. Then ratings go through the roof when this year's

    model gets caught with his/her pants down in a seedy hamster cage. The celeb is brought closer to the empty life of

    the worshiper, narrowing the gap and comforting the unwashed, making it much easier to go back to the Mall and sell

    knock-off P-Diddle bowl scrubbers, waiting to be discovered.

    Sports? That's even worse. In the course of a

    weekend, in the mind of of a couch warrior, battles are fought, won, lost and left to dry Mon-Fri on a cubicle wall

    until next week. Staring at the standings chart he's left empty, so why not create a fantasy league to play with

    until the real fantasy re-appears on Saturday? Damn! I've GOT to find tickets to that Victoria's Secret Bustier

    Bowl next week. A bit of cheerleader lace and its back to criticizing the coach, this is serious business. "Honey,

    don't bother me with the headlines, I'm trying to think. Where's my Lakers t-shirt?... the game's almost

    on..."

    Yes, there will be a lot of pissed off people when the lights go out, and they won't see it coming. I

    think, however, that there is a remnant of those who see and don't like where we are. Just the fact that we're

    having this discussion here along with, I'm sure, a thousand other places. The question remains, is the "Great

    Divide" so big as to be irreconcilable? Is there an "us v. them" with no bridge? Notions of bi-partisanship become

    rather silly when faced with choices between freedom and tyranny.

    Like you say Tim, the politicians are staring

    us down. They've abrogated every sense of responsibility to their oaths and obligations to the country and the

    people who've elected them. When they turn on the people, will the people turn back? How many? In what way?

    Belgareth has some interesting comments about this in the other current thread. I tend to agree with him. This

    country has produced too many freedom loving people who will not suffer tyrants.

    I saw on the news the other

    night a sign being held at a rally. "Its our turn for a "Change". I like that, and hopefully more events like

    the Mass. election will occur. One problem though is even if we boot the bastards out, can we undo what's already

    in place?
    Last edited by idesign; 01-23-2010 at 07:16 AM.


  9. #9
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Default Lee Iaccoca - Worth reading.

    IACOCCA SPEAKS OUT ON OBAMA
    Just as true today as it

    was when his book first came out.

    He was, and still is, a brilliant

    businessman!

    Often we need to be reminded of Iococca's

    words.

    Remember Lee Iacocca, the man who rescued Chrysler Corporation from its

    death throes? He's now 82 years old and has a new book, 'Where Have All The Leaders

    Gone?'.

    Lee Iacocca Says:
    'Am I the

    only guy in this country who's fed up with what's happening? Where the hell is our outrage with this so called

    president? We should be screaming bloody murder! We've got a gang of tax cheating clueless leftists trying to steer

    our ship of state right over a cliff, we've got corporate gangsters stealing us blind, and we can't even run a

    ridiculous cash-for-clunkers program without losing $26 billion of the taxpayers' money, much less build a hybrid

    car. But instead of getting mad, everyone sits around and nods their heads when the politicians say, 'trust me the

    economy is getting better..'

    Better? You've got to be kidding. This is

    America , not the damned, 'Titanic'. I'll give you a sound bite: 'Throw all the Democrats out along with

    Obama!'

    You might think I'm getting senile, that I've gone off my rocker,

    and maybe I have. But someone has to speak up. I hardly recognize this country

    anymore..

    The most famous business leaders are not the innovators but the guys

    in handcuffs.. While we're fiddling in Afghanistan , Iran is completing their nuclear bombs and missiles and

    nobody seems to know what to do. And the liberal press is waving 'pom-poms' instead of asking hard questions.

    That's not the promise of the ' America ' my parents and yours traveled across the ocean for. I've had enough.

    How about you?

    I'll go a step further. You can't call yourself a patriot if

    you're not outraged. This is a fight I'm ready and willing to have. The Biggest 'C' is Crisis! (Iacocca

    elaborates on nine C's of leadership, with crisis being the first.)

    Leaders

    are made, not born. Leadership is forged in times of crisis. It's easy to sit there with thumb up your butt and

    talk theory. Or send someone else's kids off to war when you've never seen a battlefield yourself. It's another

    thing to lead when your world comes tumbling down.

    On September 11, 2001, we

    needed a strong leader more than any other time in our history. We needed a steady hand to guide us out of the

    ashes. A hell of a mess, so here's where we stand.

    We're immersed in a bloody

    war now with no plan for winning and no plan for leaving. But our soldiers are dying

    daily.

    We're running the biggest deficit in the history of the world, and

    it's getting worse every day!

    We've lost the manufacturing edge to Asia ,

    while our once-great companies are getting slaughtered by health care costs.


    Gas prices are going to skyrock again, and nobody in power has a lucid plan to

    open drilling to solve the problem. This country has the largest oil reserves in the WORLD, and we cannot drill for

    it because the politicians have been bought by the flea-hugging environmentalists.


    Our schools are in a complete disaster because of the teachers union.


    Our borders are like sieves and they want to give all illegals amnesty and

    free healthcare.

    The middle class is being squeezed to death every day.


    These are times that cry out for

    leadership.

    But when you look around, you've got to ask: 'Where have all the

    leaders gone?' Where are the curious, creative communicators? Where are the people of character, courage,

    conviction, omnipotence, and common sense? I may be a sucker for alliteration, but I think you get the

    point.

    Name me a leader who has a better idea for homeland security than making

    us take off our shoes in airports and throw away our shampoo?

    We've spent

    billions of dollars building a huge new bureaucracy, and all we know how to do is react to things that have already

    happened.

    Everyone's hunkering down, fingers crossed, hoping the government

    will make it better for them. Now, that's just crazy.. Deal with life.

    Name

    me an industry leader who is thinking creatively about how we can restore our competitive edge in manufacturing. Who

    would have believed that there could ever be a time when 'The Big Three' referred to Japanese car companies? How

    did this happen, and more important, look what Obama did about it!

    Name me a

    government leader who can articulate a plan for paying down the debit, or solving the energy crisis, or managing the

    health care problem. The silence is deafening. But these are the crises that are eating away at our country and

    milking the middle class dry.

    I have news for the Chicago gangsters in

    Congress. We didn't elect you to turn this country into a losing European Socialist state. What is everybody so

    afraid of? That some bonehead on NBC or CNN news will call them a name? Give me a break. Why don't you guys show

    some spine for a change?

    Had Enough? Hey, I'm not trying to be the voice of

    gloom and doom here. I'm trying to light a fire. I'm speaking out because I have hope - I believe in America . In

    my lifetime, I've had the privilege of living through some of America 's greatest moments.. I've also

    experienced some of our worst crises: The 'Great Depression,' 'World War II,' the 'Korean War,' the 'Kennedy

    Assassination,' the 'Vietnam War,' the 1970's oil crisis, and the struggles of recent years since

    9/11.

    Make your own contribution by sending this to everyone you know and care

    about. It's our country, folks, and it's our future. Our future is at stake!!
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  10. #10
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Default This is rich

    Obama has

    suspicious number of letter-writing fans named 'Ellie

    Light'



    [url]http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2010/01/letter_writer_claims_diverse_r.html[/ur

    l]

    http://patterico.com/2010/01/23/elli...letter-writer/

    Poster's Note:
    The implications of this are enormous. Ever try to get a letter published

    in your local paper? Its near impossible without writing dozens of letters over a long period of time. How could

    one person get published simultaneously in dozens of papers? The same name with the same letter, all with a local

    address?

    We can come to our own conclusions, but it smells like week-old fish, wrapped in a newspaper.


  11. #11
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    It isn't really as hard as you

    make it sound to get published in letters to the editor. I've done it a number of times. However, the coincidence

    is rather startling, to say the least. Nobody in their right mind would believe it wasn't a propaganda push. The

    thing that amazes me most is the sheer chutzpa of thinking nobody would notice the same name being used in so many

    papers. Of course, the government is going to deny having anything to do with it.

    You did hear that he is back

    to meeting with his campaign people, right? My guess is he wants to start another internet buzz going like he did

    for the elections. He's got a good propaganda arm going. One has to wonder what his ultimate goal is. I don't like

    his beliefs and feel he is damaging the country severely but don't for a minute think he is stupid or acting

    randomly. His actions are carefully planned out.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  12. #12
    Moderator Mtnjim's Avatar
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    I'm really surprised that the more

    "politically inclined" members haven't had any comments about last Thursday's Supreme Court ruling about business

    and unlimited spending. I'm guessing that within 3 years, every politician will be fully owned by some

    multinational, if they aren't already.
    Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite.
    --Lazarus Long

  13. #13
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    It doesn't just impact

    businesses, it impacts the unions as well. They can also contribute as much as they want. Its a double edged sword

    that hopefully will lead to realistic campaign finance reform. Not with this administration or the last few but

    hopefully over time the crooks will get thrown out of office.

    I don't have a link to it but I did find the

    other side of the issue iteresting. A number of major businesses sent an open letter to congress asking them to stop

    calling for donations. It seems congress and the senate have been hitting the corporations pretty hard for money.

    I'm wondering if the real issue isn't the prostitutes in the govrnment selling their votes rather than businesses

    trying to buy them. That would put quite a slant on the claim of businesses wanting to buy government.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  14. #14
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtnjim View Post
    I'm really

    surprised that the more "politically inclined" members haven't had any comments about last Thursday's Supreme

    Court ruling about business and unlimited spending. I'm guessing that within 3 years, every politician will be

    fully owned by some multinational, if they aren't already.
    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth View Post
    It doesn't just

    impact businesses, it impacts the unions as well. They can also contribute as much as they want. Its a double edged

    sword that hopefully will lead to realistic campaign finance reform. Not with this administration or the last few

    but hopefully over time the crooks will get thrown out of office.

    I don't have a link to it but I did find the

    other side of the issue iteresting. A number of major businesses sent an open letter to congress asking them to stop

    calling for donations. It seems congress and the senate have been hitting the corporations pretty hard for money.

    I'm wondering if the real issue isn't the prostitutes in the govrnment selling their votes rather than businesses

    trying to buy them. That would put quite a slant on the claim of businesses wanting to buy

    government.


    Term limits!

    And a cap on what any candidate can spend, no matter the source.

    Bloomberg has been buying NYC out of pocket.


  15. #15
    Phero Guru Rbt's Avatar
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    But maybe more than just term

    limits, maybe a limit as to what can be done with any "leftover" money from donations.

    Example: Incumbent A

    leaves office with a bin full of bucks. Uses it to "finance" newly-elected buddy B with the original strings from

    the doners still attached. Different incumbent, same owners. Same agenda, different face.
    The opposite of love isn't hate.
    It's apathy
    .

  16. #16
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Just had to share this. It

    sounds so much like life today.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtSM2oVy_E

    You need to watch all

    three parts
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  17. #17
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    CNN Poll: Majority says government a threat to citizens' rights

    Fifty-six percent of

    people questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Friday say they think the federal

    government's become so large and powerful that it poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary

    citizens. Forty-four percent of those polled disagree.


  18. #18
    Phero Guru Rbt's Avatar
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    ^and most everyone else who didn't

    answer or weren't asked were totally clueless...
    The opposite of love isn't hate.
    It's apathy
    .

  19. #19
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Record numbers now licensed

    to pack heat


    Firearms deaths fall as millions obtain permits to carry concealed

    guns



    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389...s-life/from/ET


  20. #20
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idesign View Post
    Record

    numbers now licensed to pack heat


    Firearms deaths fall as millions obtain permits to carry concealed

    guns



    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34714389...s-life/from/ET
    That seems logical.

    With the required training it should cut down on accidental shootings. And with the required target practice it

    should decrease the number of criminals on the street too.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  21. #21
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Default Cap and Trade: A License Required for your Home

    NOTE: I've read the bill and some of what is said here is slight exaggeration, but not

    much. Bel.

    Cap and Trade: A License Required for your

    Home

    We encourage you to read the provisions of the Cap and

    Trade Bill that has passed the House of Representatives and being considered by the Senate. We are ready to join the

    next march on Washington!

    This

    Congress and whoever on their staffs that write this junk are truly out to destroy the middle class of the

    USA....



    [COLOR=black

    ]A License Required for your house


    Thinking

    about selling your house - A look at H.R. 2454 (Cap and trade bill) This is unbelievable!




    Only the beginning from this administration! Home

    owners take note & tell your friends and relatives who are home owners!



    Beginning 1 year after enactment of the Cap and Trade

    Act, you won't be able to sell your home unless you retrofit it to comply with the energy and water efficiency

    standards of this Act. H.R. 2454, the "Cap & Trade" bill passed by the House of Representatives, if also passed by

    the Senate, will be the largest tax increase any of us has ever experienced.



    The Congressional Budget Office (supposedly

    non-partisan) estimates that in just a few years the average cost to every family of four will be $6,800 per year.


    • No one is excluded.

    However, once the lower classes feel the pinch in

    their wallets, you can be sure these voters get a tax refund (even if they pay no taxes at all) to offset this new

    cost. Thus, you Mr. and Mrs. Middle Class America will have to pay even more since additional tax dollars will be

    needed to bail out everyone else.



    But wait. This

    awful bill (that no one in Congress has actually read) has many more surprises in it. Probably the worst one is

    this:

    • A year from now you won't be able to

      sell your house. Yes, you read that right.
    The

    caveat is (there always is a caveat) that if you have enough money to make required major upgrades to your home,

    then you can sell it. But, if not, then forget it. Even pre-fabricated homes ("mobile homes") are included.


    • In effect, this bill prevents you from selling

      your home without the permission of the EPA administrator.

    • To get this permission, you will have to have the

      energy efficiency of your home measured.
    • Then the

      government will tell you what your new energy efficiency requirement is and you will be forced to make modifications

      to your home under the retrofit provisions of this Act to comply with the new energy and water efficiency

      requirements.
    • Then you will have to get your home

      measured again and get a license (called a "label" in the Act) that must be posted on your property to show what

      your efficiency rating is; sort of like the Energy Star efficiency rating label on your refrigerator or air

      conditioner.
    • If you don't get a high enough rating,

      you can't sell. And, the EPA administrator is authorized to raise the standards every year, even above the

      automatic energy efficiency increases built into the Act.

    The EPA administrator, appointed by the President,

    will run the Cap & Trade program (AKA the "American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009") and is authorized to

    make any future changes to the regulations and standards he alone determines to be in the government's best

    interest. Requirements are set low initial y so the bill will pass Congress; then the Administrator can set much

    tougher new standards every year.

    • The Act

      itself contains annual required increases in energy efficiency for private and commercial residences and buildings.

    • However, the EPA administrator can set higher

      standards at any time.

    Sect. 202:


    Building Retrofit Program mandates a national

    retrofit program
    to increase the energy efficiency of all existing homes across

    America .


    Beginning 1

    year after enactment of the Act
    , you won't be able to sell your home unless you retrofit it to

    comply with the energy and water efficiency standards of this Act.



    You had better sell

    soon, because the standards will be raised each year and will be really hard (i.e., ex$pen$ive) to meet in a few

    years. Oh, goody! The Act allows the government to give you a grant of several thousand dollars to comply with the

    retrofit program requirements if you meet certain energy efficiency levels. But, wait, the State can set additional

    requirements on who qualifies to receive the grants.



    You should expect requirements such as

    "can't have an income of more than $50K per year", "home selling price can't be more than $125K", or anything else

    to target the upper middle class (and that's YOU) and prevent them from qualifying for the grants.


    Most of us won't get a dime and

    will have to pay the entire cost of the retrofit out of our own pockets. More transfer of wealth, more "change you

    can believe in."




    Sect. 304:


    Greater Energy Efficiency in Building Codes

    establishes new energy
    efficiency guidelines for the National

    Building Code and mandates at 304(d), Application of National Code to State and Local Jurisdictions, that 1

    year after enactment of this Act, all state and local jurisdictions must

    adopt the National Building Code energy efficiency provisions or must obtain a certification from the federal

    government that their state and/or local codes have been brought into full compliance with the National Building

    Code energy efficiency

    standards.


    a license required for your home - Google

    Search


    H.R. 2454:

    American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009

    (GovTrack.us)
    [/COLOR]
    [FONT=Verdana]__________________[/FO

    NT]
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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