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  1. #1
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Default Healthcare debate

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    Are you ready

    for Canadian style Healthcare?


    Nationalized healthcare has scared me from the begining. We hear a lot of

    hyperbole about it and often Canada is pointed to as good healthcare. This video is an eye

    opener.

    http://www.youtube.com

    /watch?v=q2jijuj1y…


    Are you ready for this in the US?
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2
    Moderator Mtnjim's Avatar
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    People seem to think there is only

    the Canadian health care model. There are actually four different models and we have every one of them in this

    country. There is the Canadian model, there is the British model, there is the Bismark model (used in Germany,

    France and several other European countries and Japan), and the cash model, mostly found in 3rd world countries and

    the US.

    Every one of those models are found in use in this country. Are you a Native American or military

    retiree? You've got the British model. Are you over 65? You've got the Canadian model. When the government was

    setting up Medicare, not only did they use the model, they even used the same name!

    Does your company provide you

    with health insurance? In that case you fall under the Bismark model. Finally, do you have to pay cash for your

    care? In that case you fall into the cash model found mostly in 3rd world countries. The only problem is most

    Americans can't pay for their care with a chicken like the 3rd worlders can. And if you have a great health

    insurance plan, plan on joining these poor souls if you lose your job unless you are independently wealthy and can

    afford the COBRA payments.

    Another thing most people don't realize is that the first health insurance companies

    were founded as non profit agencies, just like the Bismark model uses today. That's right, Blue Cross/Blue

    Shield were originally not for profit!

    And, I love the arguments. "We have the best medical care in the

    world". Sorry, we're number 37, a bit behind Columbia and just ahead of Cuba. Then there is the argument "I don't

    want some bureaucrat rationing my care". Sorry, got health insurance? If so, you've already got a corporate

    bureaucrat rationing your care making sure your care doesn't cut into profits.

    One other thing that should be

    noted is that health care is written into the Constitution of the United States. Just recite the preamble,

    I'm sure you'll find it in there.
    Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite.
    --Lazarus Long

  3. #3
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Jim,

    There are a number of

    points I could argue but the most glaring is the number 37. That is based on invalid data because every country

    reports differently so there is no real yardstick to measure by. For example, life expectancy is determined much

    more by lifestyle than healthcare. In this country we are lazy and have really poor diets. You've commented on that

    yourself. Government managed healthcare isn't going to change that fact. Another example is that infant mortality

    is determined in some countries based only on those that start as live, viable births where others are based on

    known conceptions. Very hard to compare it that way. Third is that the vast majority of medical advances come out of

    the US healthcare system. Obviously we must be doing something better than most other countries but that isn' taken

    into account in those stats. Lastly is the fact that every country in the world sends their medical students here

    for training. Why is that? So they can get poor training? That doesn't seem very reasonable, does it?

    There is

    a lot more to this debate than the questionable figures being quoted. However, my primary argument is that I do not

    believe in or have any faith in our government or its ability to do anything right. They have proven themselves

    incompetent every time. Prices will rise, benefits and quality will fall. The pattern is firmly established and

    anybody who believes anything differently is kidding themselves. Ask yourself this, if the government has so much

    knowledge about managing healthcare, why have they done nothing about teh skyrocketing prices in the past? Surely, a

    little regulation would have made a huge difference ages ago. The government not only has passively sat by and

    allowed this to happen, you could argue that the governments regulations are a major contributing factor in the

    crises in the first place. Again, I see a pattern here, think of the dotcom bubble, which was allowed to occur

    unchecked. Millions were badly hurt by that.

    Also, please note that most of the government sponsored healthcare

    systems in the world are either bankrupt or on the brink. Those are all great examples to follow.
    Last edited by belgareth; 09-02-2009 at 05:40 AM.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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