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    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Default Three Interesting and related articles about scent

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    Not too long a read but informative and

    interesting.


    Bel

    Women Can Smell a Man's Intentions



    By Melinda Wenner, Special to LiveScience

    posted: 09 January 2009 10:20 am

    ET


    It's not hard to

    tell when a guy is "happy to see you."

    The twinkle in his eye, his

    swagger, that sexy smile — all are clear signs he's in the mood.




    And, at least subconsciously, a woman can also tell by the scent of

    his sweat, according to new research.




    Scientists have long debated whether humans, like animals, use

    chemical signals called pheromones to communicate sexual interest to potential mates. Problem is, the effects of

    pheromones are thought to be subconscious — meaning that if we do communicate using them, we sure don't know it.

    It's also hard to know what these pheromones might be and how we sense them, so researchers understand little about

    them.


    But if human

    pheromones are going to be anywhere, they're going to be in sweat, right? Denise Chen, a psychologist at Rice

    University in Houston, and her colleagues devised an experiment to compare how women respond to different forms of

    male sweat — sweat produced in everyday situations versus that produced when a man is turned on.



    The researchers

    speculated that if humans do produce and respond to sweat pheromones, then a woman should respond to a guy's sexual

    sweat differently than she does to his normal sweat.




    Chen and her colleagues asked 20 heterosexual guys to stop wearing

    deodorant and scented products for a few days. Then they told the men to put small pads in their armpits as they

    watched pornographic videos and became aroused (the researchers confirmed, using electrodes, that the images did the

    job). Later, the guys were asked to exchange those pads for fresh pads to collect the sweat they produced when they

    weren't aroused.


    Then

    the researchers recruited 19 brave women to smell the men's pads while undergoing brain scans.



    The investigators used

    functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), a technique that reveals the brain regions a person is using at any

    given time — even if their brain activity is subconscious.




    Sure enough, the women's brains responded very differently depending

    on which sweat they sniffed. (And no, none of them passed out.) The sexual sweat, but not the normal sweat,

    activated the right orbitofrontal cortex and the right fusiform cortex, brain areas that help us recognize emotions

    and perceive things, respectively. Both regions are in the right hemisphere, which is generally involved in smell,

    social response, and emotion.


    The findings bolster the idea that humans do communicate via subconscious chemical signals, notes Chen in her

    study, which was published in the Dec. 31 issue of the Journal of Neuroscience.


    Our sexual intentions, in other words, may be a lot

    clearer than we ever intended them to be. That crush you have on your co-worker? She may already know — at least

    subconsciously.









    The Sexy, Healthy Scent of a Man

    By

    Robert Roy Britt, LiveScience Senior Writer




    posted: 04 November 2004 02:06 pm ET

    How smells get to the brain. Credit: The Nobel

    Foundation


    How smells

    get to the brain. Credit: The Nobel Foundation The scent of a man, at least among mice, can reveal the state of his

    health and determine whether a female gets pregnant, a new study shows.


    The research suggests that other animals, perhaps even

    you, choose mates in part based on the strength of their immune systems.


    Previous research had shown mice prefer to breed with

    mates whose immune-system genes -- which produce chemicals that help the body fight invading cells -- are different

    from their own. Such selective sex leads to healthier offspring.




    The new study shows how the selection

    occurs.


    Researchers at

    the University of Maryland examined molecules known as peptides that come from the immune system and end up in

    urine. Each mouse's disease-fighting peptides are unique, like fingerprints. A female records and remembers the

    scent of a mate's peptides using its vomeronasal organ, inside the nose.


    "Exposure, during a critical period, to urine odor from

    another male, will prevent embryo implantation, leading to loss of pregnancy, while exposure to the familiar odor

    will not," said Frank Zufall of the university's School of Medicine.




    Spiking the punch



    "We can trick this odor memory and the outcome of the pregnancy-block

    test by adding peptides to urine," Zufall told LiveScience. "In other words, we can switch an unfamiliar urine odor

    to a familiar one (and vice versa) by spiking the urine with only a few peptides."


    Other studies have shown that vomeronasal organs in

    many animals detect pheromones and other molecules that pack information on sexual and social status. Pheromones

    were first discovered in the 1950s to be sex attractants in insects.




    "We believe that detection of [immune system] peptides via the nose

    may be of general significance for social behaviors in all vertebrates," Zufall said.


    The study was led by Trese Leinders-Zufall and will be

    detailed in the Nov. 5 issue of the journal Science.




    Picky, picky



    Similar peptides exist in human immune systems. But our vomeronasal

    organ has apparently been rendered defunct by evolution, many scientists believe, though there's some uncertainty

    about this. In fact the question of how and whether scent affects a woman has been widely debated in recent years.



    Since discovering

    powerful sex pheremones in silkworms decades ago, scientists have been hot to learn whether humans could be

    similarly stimulated. The investigation has proved frustrating.




    "Compared to insects, whose behavior is stereotyped and highly

    predictable, mammals are independent, ornery, complex creatures," notes writer Maya Pines of the Howard Hughes

    Medical Institute.


    Like

    any animal, we humans are picky. And that provides a line of investigation.


    Stinky T-shirts

    In 1996, Claus Wedekind, a zoologist at Bern University

    in Switzerland, conducted what's become known as the stinky T-shirt study. Wedekind had 44 men each wear a t-shirt

    for two nights straight, then tested how women reacted to the smelly shirts.


    Like mice, women preferred the scent of men whose

    immune systems were unlike their own. If a man's immune system was similar, a woman tended to describe his T-shirt

    as smelling like her father or brother.




    Since then, companies have developed pheremone-based perfumes and

    cologns, with promises of increased sexual attraction. Researchers don't agree on their effectiveness.



    More research is needed

    to figure out how and to what extent a woman's nose leads her to sex, and how adept she is at picking a healthy

    partner.


    "We cannot rule

    out that other parts of the human nose are able to detect the peptides," Frank Zufall said. "We can now ask whether

    these peptides are present in human secretions such as sweat and saliva, whether they can be detected by the human

    nose, and if so, whether they have any influence on our own social behavior."







    When a Woman Smells

    Best


    By Sara

    Goudarzi, Special to LiveScience


    posted: 18 January 2006 ET
    The scent of a woman is more

    attractive at certain times of the month, suggests a new study that had men sniffing women's armpit odor.



    "We were interested

    whether armpit odor changes across menstrual cycle," said study author Jan Havlieek of the Department of

    Anthropology at Charles University, Prague. "To test this, we asked a group of women to wear cotton pads in their

    armpits for 24 hours."


    The women didn't wear perfumes, use deodorants, eat spicy or smelly foods, smoke, drink alcohol or use

    hormonal contraceptives such as the pill. Body odor was collected during three phases: menstrual (at the beginning);

    follicular (between the first day of menstruation and the onset of ovulation); and luteal (the fertile stage).



    "The fresh pads were

    subsequently rated for their attractiveness and intensity by a group of 42 men," Havlieek told LiveScience.



    The most attractive

    smells, men said, were from the time between the first day of menstruation and ovulation.



    The cycle



    The typically 28-day

    menstrual cycle involves the physiological changes that occur in a woman to prepare for a possibility of pregnancy.

    It is controlled by the reproductive hormone system.




    A cycle is divided into four parts and starts on the first day of

    menstruation, which is the shedding of tissue and blood from the womb. In the follicular phase, a dominant ovarian

    follicle—which is a sack that contains the ova, or egg—grows, becoming ready to ovulate. The mature egg is then

    released in the phase known as ovulation around day 12. The cycle ends with the fertile phase.



    Although many men would

    tell you they're always in the mood, Havlieek and colleagues discovered that men find odors during the follicular

    phase the most attractive and least intense. On the other hand, the highest intensity smells, corresponding to the

    lowest attractiveness for men, were found during the time of menstrual bleeding.


    "Traditionally it's believed that ovulation in human

    female is concealed and there are no changes in attractiveness across the cycle," Havlieek said.



    The study is detailed

    in the January issue of the journal Ethology.




    Further sniffing



    Two other studies by different research teams came to similar

    conclusions. But those investigations used T-shirts for odor sampling, "making it difficult to pinpoint the source

    of the smell," said Havlieek, whose team restricted sampling to armpits only.



    Finally,

    the attractiveness of women's faces also changes during the month.




    Havlieek's team found that facial images of women in the follicular

    phase—when the dominant ovarian follicle is getting ready to ovulate—are considered more attractive as compared to

    images taken in the luteal or fertile phase of the cycle.




    The researchers hope to find out which chemical compounds are

    responsible for the odor changes across a woman's menstrual cycle.









    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2
    Phero Enthusiast chicago's Avatar
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    Bel, Sometimes they have a

    picture of these guys writing these articles. They look like 70's year old virgins.
    Wow brain activity. Take any

    human and make them smell shit. I bet there is gonna be lots of brain activity in the

    brain.
    ________
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    Last edited by chicago; 04-08-2011 at 03:49 PM.

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    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Most scientific types I know,

    including my wife, are dedicated and bright people. Frankly, I would believe a well documented study long before a

    hundred PUAs, no offense intended. It's been my expeperience that well done studies are usually right on point,

    even when they seem to contradict 'common knowledge'
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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    Phero Dude gfunk's Avatar
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    Very interesting read and great

    examples with the brain scans but I have never doubted that smells have an effect on the human attraction and

    communication.

  5. #5
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago View Post
    Bel,

    Sometimes they have a picture of these guys writing these articles. They look like 70's year old virgins.
    Wow

    brain activity. Take any human and make them smell shit. I bet there is gonna be lots of brain activity in the

    brain.
    Think. The point isn't that there was brain activity, but where the activity was.

    Who knows? That

    seventy year old wrinkly science guy may have bedded more women that you ever will.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  6. #6
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth View Post
    Most

    scientific types I know, including my wife, are dedicated and bright people. Frankly, I would believe a well

    documented study long before a hundred PUAs, no offense intended. It's been my expeperience that well done studies

    are usually right on point, even when they seem to contradict 'common knowledge'
    Excellent post, Bel.

    Good to see you've taken up some of the scientific responsibility around here. I've slacked off in that department

    recently, unfortunately.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

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    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Yeah, yeah, yeah! Got me

    carrying the load for you on top of all my other burdens. Aren't you ashamed of yourself?

    Actually,

    I've developed an interest in some of the brain chemistry issues related to dopamine and serotonin such as

    Parkinson's, depression and RLS. Very interesting stuff and I was following up on something to do with that when I

    ran across those articles. Damned ADD, anyway! You know I keep my mind involved in science when I have the

    spare time. It just happened that some of my reading was of interest to the forum.

    Thanks, I hope they were of

    interest to everybody.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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    Default related or ??

    Pheromones may be

    playing a large role in keeping the population's offspring healthy but it appears mankind (well, some people) is

    doing the opposite:

    Study shows that genetically engineered corn crops might eventually do us

    in.

    http://www.greenpeace.org/india/news...ondoms-ge-corn
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

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    Journeyman
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    I started reading your reply,

    and for a moment I thought you were gonna say that we are doing the opposite of keeping our offsprings healthy, by

    using artificial pheromones instead of relying on our own natural pheromone production which attracts the befitting

    (congruent, fit, proper ) partner.

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    Phero Enthusiast chicago's Avatar
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    Belgareth, Dr.SmellThat. I

    understand and i agree that the pads did get brain activity in the right region of the brain. but, to me thats only

    a small percentage of attraction.
    The large percentage is a man behavior. Mones, money, looks, are all secondary to

    females. Behavior is on top of the list.
    Their are four important traits that naturals do. That makes a women brain

    and body go crazy.
    This Dr. Chen who did this experiment she does alot of insect, animals experiments. She is

    always trying to prove her theory. That smell is everything or very important to selecting mates.
    Im not a doctor,

    But I do have sex with average 40 to 60 girls in a year time. Its all about Behavior Behavior

    Behavior.
    ________
    Drug Rehab Forums
    Last edited by chicago; 04-08-2011 at 03:50 PM.

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    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    The difference here is that in

    one instance we have a well designed experiment and in the other we have the results of personal experience. No

    offense but the well designed experiment has all the weight. There is no way to demonstrate that your results are

    anything more than what happens when a person acts properly after creating attraction chemically. And I honestly

    believe that you could only get those results if the girls were looking to get laid in the first place.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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    Default ??

    "Their are four important

    traits that naturals do."

    Chicago, what are those traits? TIA
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

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    Have to weigh in with Belgareth

    and DrSmellTHIS. Scientific research is all about controlling variables and finding out what really happens.

    Anecdotal evidence is important, but is based on what can best be described as rumor.

    One can find, at any

    given time, someone to "prove from experience" any theory of behavior. Its valuable in a way, but not proof of

    cause, unless you want to include pattern as proof. Don't want of offend any "soft" scientists here, but I think

    the burden of proof is much higher when experience is proof rather than hard evidence. I do believe that all study

    in this kind of thing is valuable. In our case at hand, anecdotal evidence is probably more

    important.

    Personally I tend to blend the scientific with the anecdotal when it come to pheromones. The

    variables in behavior among adult humans coupled with the sketchy science of pheromones leads to no other path of

    understanding of what happens when we wear this stuff.

    PUAs will point to behavior management, thinking that

    all you have to do is control the environment. Pheromone scientists will throw weight to chemical stimulus of

    whatever parts of the brain which manage social and/or sexual functions.

    I'm not a scientist or a PUA, but do

    observe and kind of study the whole aspect of the matter. There's no question of scent effecting behavior on some

    level, and certainly deep inside the part of the grey matter of choice among scientists. That's been known since

    the millenia started being themselves. Even Jesus got Frankincense and Myrrh, how valuable is that? How scent

    effects behavior has been studied and argued about for probably half that duration.

    The PUA community is

    pop-psychology mixed with a kind of playground approach to humanity. Anecdotal evidence from such an approach is

    best viewed with the proper lens. Results are evident within their scope, however limited by their goals.



    Pheromone science leaves much to be desired, but in its infancy has proven, both scientifically and anecdotally,

    to be something that's to be taken seriously.

    Dos Pesos


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    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    One professor I knew in college

    was fond of noting that all mass murderers drank water on the days they committed the murders. Using the same kind

    of logic the PUA community does, you could assert that drinking water is a condition required to commit mass murder.

    You can substitute almost anything for 'drinking water' and it will still mean nothing.

    All that said, there

    is ample empirical evidence indicating that behavoir does impact results in seduction. But before you can conclude

    anything you have to look at the target's mindset and a host of other factors. As with the PUA, the woman is an

    active, thinking participant in this and is not numb to what is happening. To assume otherwise is foolish. So,

    before the PUA can do anything he is working with a willing or at least open-minded participant. Why is that person

    a willing or open-minded participant? We need to look at the base of the situation to determine what is really

    happening. That is where attraction must start, long before the PUA opens his mouth to start his game. Even before

    that, we have the precondition that the female is interested in sex, otherwise all bets are off. Was she interested

    is sex before the chemical or visual attraction? In most cases I'd say yes because women are at least as sexual as

    men are and often far more so. In short, what the PUA is claiming as success is mostly manipulating preconditions

    correctly. If it were not for the preconditions of desire for sex and attraction the PUA would essentially be trying

    to fly without the use of wings.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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    Phero Enthusiast chicago's Avatar
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    Bel,

    Humans are more complex than insects and animals. Denise Chen in the past, she study insects and

    animals.

    Bel, If you break it all down to a genetic level, We are all

    here to reproduce offspring. If you agree with that, than you agree with all or almost all humans want to have

    sex.

    The naturals have the genetic code that women want in their

    offspring. Thats why they get sex from women. Because when a women finds or feel a man has the genentic code she

    wants in her offspring. Women get turn on and want sex from that man.

    Its

    all about survival of the offspring. Thats why women don't fuck losers. Because they don't want their kids having

    the same loser genes.

    Take women or a man who has the right mones

    signature, but has cancer. Nobody want to have sex with those people, because bad genes.

    Women cheat on their husband, not because they are sluts. Its because she wants better genes in her

    offspring.

    ________
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    Last edited by chicago; 04-08-2011 at 03:50 PM.

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    Chicago, the world is full of

    losers who are the offspring of losers. Women and men make horrible mating decisions all the freaking time. You are

    trying to explain the complex with simplicity and at the same time contradict your own posting. It would take me a

    book to explain the dimensions of human relationships. And at that, you would still continue on the same path that

    you are on.

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    Phero Enthusiast chicago's Avatar
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    Tounge, That is one of the Funniest comment i every heard " the world is full of losers who are

    the offspring of losers".

    ________
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    Last edited by chicago; 04-08-2011 at 03:50 PM.

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    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    First comment is regarding the

    cancer. I had cancer and know for a fact that it did nothing to reduce my results with women. I was 21 at the time,

    in college and getting sex whenever I wanted it, both before and after I found out. Don't believe everything you

    read. And tounge is absolutley right about losers having children, it happens every day. Hell, why do you think

    there are so many abused women whose husbands are drunken losers?

    Are we more complex in our mating than other

    animals? I could argue against that. Looked at from an anthropologists point of view, you and your friends in a bar

    are doing nothing more complicated than the mating dance of a bunch of peacocks and peahens and roughly for the same

    reasons.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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    Phero Enthusiast chicago's Avatar
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    Bel, Im sorry for using cancer

    example. Please forgive me
    ________
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    OF YAZDANISM ADVICE
    Last edited by chicago; 04-08-2011 at 03:51 PM.

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    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Thanks Chicago, but it did not

    bother me. I had cancer probably before you were born and got over it many years ago. No offense was intended and

    none was taken.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Bel, I would agree more with

    tongue, that human relationships are infinitely more diverse and complicated than lower mammals, and certainly

    insects. We transcend mere instinct with our reason, if we choose to use it.

    I would agree however that a

    typical PUA approach more resembles our feathered friends you mentioned.


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    Phero Guru Rbt's Avatar
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    If I recall from my psychology

    courses according to such things as Maslow's Needs Theory sex and reproduction are pretty far down the list after

    air, food, and other elements of basic *personal* survival.

    There are also theories about that say women seek

    men who make good babies only during a certain time of their reproductive life (eg puberty to about age 25ish), then

    change and start looking for good providers (about after age 25ish) to support them and the kids. Supposedly also a

    built-in genetic tendency. I know based on my own observation that a number of early marriages have a tendency to

    break up at about age 25 or so which seems to agree with this idea.


    The key however to much of this is that

    it is still pretty much all theory and opinion. And those opinions can change over time.

    Just some quick

    thoughts during break time...
    The opposite of love isn't hate.
    It's apathy
    .

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    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idesign View Post
    Bel, I

    would agree more with tongue, that human relationships are infinitely more diverse and complicated than lower

    mammals, and certainly insects. We transcend mere instinct with our reason, if we choose to use it.

    I would

    agree however that a typical PUA approach more resembles our feathered friends you mentioned.
    Sorry if you

    took that to mean I disagree with what tounge said. I was referring to the mating dance in bars and nightclubs,

    which bear little resemblance to relationships. A quick screw in the bathroom or a one nighter with some piece you

    picked up in a bar does not count as a relationship. It counts as a mating dance and is just about as rewarding to

    me.

    A relationship, on the other hand, can be many things and are as diverse as the human mind can make them.

    Even if you obey the artificial restrictions placed o relationships by churches and governemnts, there are more ways

    to have a relationship than you can list. If you look at some of the mammals you'll find a huge variety of

    relationship practices too. The lower ones don't get creative but the hiher ones certainly do.

    RBT:

    Would

    that explain why people grow out of the bar scenes and start looking for more solid relationships?
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth View Post
    Sorry if

    you took that to mean I disagree with what tounge said. I was referring to the mating dance in bars and nightclubs,

    which bear little resemblance to relationships. A quick screw in the bathroom or a one nighter with some piece you

    picked up in a bar does not count as a relationship. It counts as a mating dance and is just about as rewarding to

    me.

    A relationship, on the other hand, can be many things and are as diverse as the human mind can make them.

    Even if you obey the artificial restrictions placed o relationships by churches and governemnts, there are more ways

    to have a relationship than you can list. If you look at some of the mammals you'll find a huge variety of

    relationship practices too. The lower ones don't get creative but the hiher ones certainly do.

    RBT:

    Would

    that explain why people grow out of the bar scenes and start looking for more solid

    relationships?
    Understood Bel, I know you're too smart to make that reduction. But I also know you have

    a penchant for too-direct comparisons (reductions) of humans to the lower animal kingdom. Or I misunderstand you,

    which would not be a first.

    I agree about the word "relationship". In my understanding of the word, it

    requires creative thought, which is unique to humans.

    Its kind of funny though, every woman I've ever dated

    started with some kind of "dance". Verbal, physical and social cues informing both of us as we waded through those

    first shallow waters, presumably both of us hoping they'd grow deeper.


    Relating to your comment to Rbt's

    comment: Ever see an older man or woman who did not grow out of the bar scene? There are perjorative terms for

    them.


  25. #25
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    The obvious question is how

    direct a comparison is too direct? Personally I belive that we are little more than animale with a VERY thin layer

    of civilization overlaying it. Evidence is plain when you look at how quickly people revert to animalistic ways in

    almost any high pressure circumstance. In making the assumption that we are still more animal than civilzed I have

    never been disapointed in predicting behavoir.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  26. #26
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    I'd LOVE to hear from Doc on

    this, but I believe our emotional and psychological development has lagged behind our purely cerebral development.

    We can go to the moon (not the chimps) but our divorce rate is over 50%. I really don't want to get into

    that line of thought.

    Our shortfall is behavioral, as you say, and that's no reason to

    automatically draw so short a line to the apes. We're capable of seemingly super-human heights of behavior.


  27. #27
    Journeyman
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    Oh, thanks for inputing.

    They are so interesting but a little long.

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