New and torn between cleo and pi

[Madison]

Hi

everybody I am torn between cleo and pi. I know cleo in 10$ cheaper but it doesnt give an amount as to how

much mones are in it like the pi does so not sure which to choose. Is there a sample of the cleo or pi? Thanks!

Madison

[belgareth]

Have you considered A7? It has

more mones in it than PI and Cleo is an unknown.

Have you read enough around the forum to be certain you want a

-none product and not one of the more bablanced ones? How old are you? If under thirty something with a more

balanced mix might be better for you.

[Madison]

I

haven't read everything, but from what I did read i'm pretty sure I want a product with androstenol and copulins

that is how I came up with cleo and pi. Can you tell me the reason for suggesting the a7? Do you know if it has the

nol or copulins? i'm not sure if I want the ones it does say it has, but also I don't know as much as you i'm

sure! I am 24 and my main concern is helping with attracting men, and I am very shy but have been told I intimidate

men and i'm really nice! Just shy. I also thought about pheromax but cleo or pi are more in my price range. Well

please let me know your thoughts. Thank you, Madison p.s. if you have any more questions feel free to ask!

[belgareth]

Are you female, Madison?

[idesign]

Hi Madison and welcome.

We

missed it at first but I'm pretty sure now that you're a woman, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Belgareth was recommending the A7 thinking that you were a guy.

If so, why don't we move your thread over to the

Women's Forum? Over there you'd be more likely to get answers from women with experience. Us guys are just

working from theory when it comes to women's products.

Let me know and I'll move it for you.

I know what

you mean about being shy, I'm that way a lot in social situations. People think you're aloof when actually

you're just, well, shy. Also, I don't know how many times I've been surprised to learn that a woman was quite

friendly and nice, when all along I thought she was cold and distant. It took me a while but I stopped letting

appearances stop me from approaching women.

Why do you think you intimidate them, other than shyness? The one

thing a woman does that puts me in the bag every time is present a nice smile. There are other things, but its up

to you to how you present yourself and relate to people. Pheromones can only push things along once you're going.

But I will tell you that -mones are great for that!

[Madison]

Yes i'm a girl ! Please feel

free to move the thread! I bought some self help books to help with social situations/talking to people/being more

open I always thought it was just because men didn't like me for some reason my girlfriends kept saying they were

just intimidated but I always thought 'me?' why would little me intimidate men? ha then I started to pay

more attention after it was said to me over and over again and now I think they were right it seems I have to go

talk to them pretty much but I'm the woman and feel like I want them to come up to me. That is why I want to seem

more approachable.

[idesign]

There! its a lot more

comfortable in this room, hope you like what we did with the curtains.

You're exactly right, men

should approach women. I have a feeling that you're very attractive, that intimidates many

men.

Any ladies out there care to offer some help with recommendations?

[belgareth]

What is it about you that

intimidates men? Looks, attitude, intelligence? I'd like to know more so I can better comment.

[Madison]

I don't know I smile a

lot but i have had a few people tell me to smile when I am smiling maybe I just look like one of those people that

always seems like they are mad but really that is just how they always look. I thought maybe they were just saying

that to talk to me i'm not really sure I will just sitting listening to music having a good time and smiling and

people will say why do you look so sad, smile! or just 'smile!' i have gotten that several times always confuses

me because i am smiling. My attitude i'm not sure i'm really nice if not to nice. One of those your greatest

strength is your greatest weakness things. So I am nice just shy though so maybe not the best conversationalist. I

am getting better at it though. I was at a bar once and a guy was there with his friend he asked me to come over and

talk with them he seemed to like me a lot and introduced me to his friend right after that he asked friend what he

thought of me and he said he thought I was naive and standoffish (I promptly left after that ) which I

don't really understand because all I did was say my name and nice to meet you. It bothered me and I asked my

friends if I came off that way (because if I do I want to change it) and they said not at all (although they already

know me) Not sure what that was about. I have had comments from men about my posture and how I seem so proper or

classy so they feel they have to act different but i'm just being myself and I don't want someone else to feel

they have to act different when they are around me just be yourself and i'll be myself. All All of my friends say

the reasons they like me so much is because I am one of the nicest people they, funny , optimistic and

laid-back. So it's odd to me how I would seem so different on the outside I guess? or Intimidating I feel like I am

far from it.

[belgareth]

People who first meet me often

think I am aloof and arrogant, or they used too. The fact is that I am quiet and a little shy. Or people would ask

me what I was mad about when I wasn't. It takes a lot to get me mad and it only happens about once every ten years.

I am almost always in a good mood.

There were a few lessons I learned about it. First is my body language. I had

to learn to adopt a more open posture and make better eye contact without seeming aggressive. Some people don't

smile well with their eyes and it is often shyness that causes that.

Try this, look at yourself in the mirror

and give yourself a smile. Is it warm and friendly or is it closed and reserved? Do you huddle into yourself when

you are around unfamiliar people?

One lady I've known for years has one of those faces that always seems

forlorn. She is really a very happy person and can be hilarious with some of her observations. But the shape of her

eyebrows makes her look perpetually sad.

Pheromones will not do you any harm but looking in a mirror and

studying body language might be a good idea too. You sound like a sweet lady and a lot of people are probably

missing out on knowing you. I am guessing but I think that your body language may be your biggest trouble.

And,

to borrow a disclaimer from Mobley: I reserve the right to be completely wrong.

[DrSmellThis]

Tell you what, I'd

loooooooooovvee to meet a nice, attractve person like you. It's always weird when I find out women are thinking

similar things to myself when out.

In my opinion, if you are open to meeting someone the only thing you "owe"

them is eye contact and a smile. A little generally open body language on top of that, and the guy has to be out of

it not to approach a woman he finds attractive. I certainly don't have to be hinted at twice -- at least I

think.

When I'm out, people think I'm too intense looking, and so they often stay away. If I am joking

around, even, they tend to think me too serious. I don't know how to handle that problem, because I guess I am sort

of intense, and I know that scares people. I'm a passionate, emotional artist with a strong intellect, and that

often is going to seem intense. What can I do?

The only thing I tell myself is to always give someone a light

smile and eye contact. Of course if this was magic, I'd be hitched up by now.

Bel's mirror idea is a good one.

Nothing to lose there. No brainer.

As far as being a conversationalist, just ask the person about themselves; and

don't give up, because they are probably shy and nervous too. The biggest thing I notice about attractive women at

bars or coffee shops is that generally the whole conversation is about them, which is fine at first for a little

while. But then it's silence when I think it's their turn to ask about me. I come away thinking I must really be a

boring person because they didn't want to ask a single question about me (or I think they are self-centered).

Really, I guess women often do that just to let you know they are not interested in you whatsoever, even if they

still enjoy talking about themselves to you.

If I see a woman is trying to give a conversation a chance, I will

forgive every dorky thing she says, as long as I am not turning her off with my own conversation. The exception

would be if she said really stupid or ignorant things, and was cocky about it. Nothing is a bigger turn off than

arrogance about one's own stupidity. Humility about one's beliefs and opinions is a wonderful thing. Complete

unwillingness to be anything but superficial is another turn off. An attractive woman who has a real conversation

with me about real things, and isn't argumentative or arrogant, always gets me going. If there's any way to turn

that into more, I will. The whole loud and obnoxious thing is a turn off too, because it seems so harsh or

overwhelming.

Women have an advantage in conversations in that it is more socially acceptable for them to say

dorky things, and show weakness, whereas men feel like they have to be cool, strong, and in control.

Another

thing you can do is dress in a way that is opposite to intimidating if intimidating is your image. In other words,

don't come across as too corporate or CEO like. The other thing to realize is that if you are feeling sexy and

dress hot, a lot of men are intimidated by that. Being rejected by a gorgeous woman that you really want is worse

than being rejected by someone frumpy looking, tio be blunt. But the eye contact and smile thing should be enough,

and hot dressing will encourage a man who is more aggressive or confident. But I really like when a woman is hot

underneath her clothes and dresses very casual.