check out the pheromone
research forum!
check out the pheromone
research forum!
Hi Big Sting....
remember
when you´ve been turned on by the smell of a women and you will understand how it works..
figure it out by
testing pheromones in each situation you can imagine..
if you asd for scientist reasons... go with tbssftw....
Best Pago
The simple answer is because if
animals weren't mutually attracted to each other the species would die out rather quickly. That isn't true of just
humans, maybe less so of humans than many other animals because we have sex for fun as well as reproduction while
most animals don't. However, the basic instinct is still to reproduce and scent plays a huge roll on selecting a
worthwhile mate. If you want the mechanics of it, there is a lot of material on the subject and much of it
contradictory.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
There are lots of reasons,
having to do with conditioning, upbringing, and hard wiring of the brain.
But at the most basic level, airborne
pheromones from one human are picked up by the nose, (the mechanics here are hotly debated by the "experts")
triggering the brain to release neurotransmitters important to sexuality (neurotransmitters being closely related to
hormones), and the whole body to release various sexuality-related hormones, many of which are related to estrogen
and testosterone in both men and women.
Since pheromones are mostly airborne hormones (But also fatty acids and
other substances), it's mostly one person's hormones triggering another person's hormones. So if you are horny,
she is also more likely to be, for example.
Whatever the hormones in your body happen to be, those will affect
the hormones of everyone around you.
Since your hormones interact with your thoughts and feelings, both causing
the other to exist as they are, your thoughts and feelings DIRECTLY, CHEMICALLY affect those of everyone around
you.
Think about that one a while, people!
Whatever you wish others to feel and think, you must think and feel
the correct, compatible kinds of things. There is no cheating! This is a fundamental problem with pickup techniques,
which don't reform the individual human's mind and feelings, as much as they just seek to manipulate "targets"
using brute technique. Unfortunately or fortunately, you must attain sexual enlightenment to get the ladies,
grasshopper!
Truly we are, in some centrally important ways, all one human body, and one nature. Here I refer to
a truth of science, not spiritualism. The vast majority of humans have no idea that this is true. But now you
know.
I should add that there are both conscious, mental; and unconscious, automatic sides to this whole
thing. The best results come from a partner thinking you smell sexy mentally, as well as getting affected on a
purely chemical level.
Last edited by DrSmellThis; 07-17-2008 at 05:47 PM.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
Doc, would that explanation
carry over to explaining how a person under high stress can transfer that stress to a room of people? Or is that
more behavioral cause and effect?
I've also always wondered why a man and woman "click" sometimes. I'm sure
a lot of it is visual, but that cannot explain the "thunderbolt" you get sometimes. Would your above explanation be
at work here as well? Kind of a "perfect storm" of hormonal action mixed with personality and looks? In other
words, what's on Cupid's mind?
Touching on Bel's point, scent would work on a primal level, feeding
attraction subliminally with hormones. But somehow, with humans, I think there must be more, as he alluded.
Interesting stuff.
Certainly, if you are feeling
stress, to put it simplistically, you are releasing stress hormones into the air as pheromones and triggering others
to feel this as well.
One bummer with that is that the neurotransmitter dopamine, which is important to sexual
response of various kinds (including visual), gets converted to adrenaline and cannot trigger said responses.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
Doc,
The other side of it is
that when you are feeling calm and happy you seem to spread that as well. Do humans produce a pheromone signifying
happy or content? Kind of a chemical purr?
ID,
You are right, I was alluding to there being more but I think
each human's response level is different. One person goes completely off the deep end over somebody while the next
finds them extremely attractive but ever shows a thing and seems able to just shrug it off. Add alcohol or otherwise
lower the person's inhibitions and you see an altogether different response. Fun to watch but disconcerting if you
don't know what is happening.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
Right, what I'm getting at is to what
extent pheromones "control" interrelations.
In your example (let's forget about alcohol or drugs) one person
may react strongly in a romantic way, and another will yawn. I'm wondering is there a way that pheromones "mesh"
between individuals? Like a hand fitting a glove?
Human pheromones must be exponentially (if not infinitely)
more complex than the lower animals (I know, this may go against your philosophical grain). It does stand to reason
that with all the other higher functions humans posses, their pheromonal development must be at a similar higher
function.
And/or to what extent visual cues and personality attractions blend with whatever pheromonal signals
are simultaneously attracting.
As a rank uneducated amateur, I imagine it to be a combination of all-the-above.
But since this discussion is about scent, I'm particularly interested in the pheromone/olfactory/neurotransmitter
angle.
Doc, you said something about dopamine being involved in visual cues.
* I do think that human's sexual response is more complex than for other animals in
that it just involves more higher order processing; more the holistic integration of sensory, emotional and
cognitive information.
* Idesign and Bel: One pheromone I believe is involved in stress reduction is iso-valeric
acid, a main component of valerian root. Recall that there is quite a bit of valerian root in Pheros, and
that Pheros has a strong track record of promoting relaxation. On humans, the chemical is produced in
greatest concentration in the feet. Dogs naturally produce a lot of it, which might explain recent results
supporting the use of dogs in treating autism, and promoting stress reduction in various stressfull settings, such
as the workplace. If you want to prove this to yourself, open up a bottle of valerian root and inhale deeply. You
should feel more relaxed.
* Yes, dopamine is involved in the processing of visual sexual cues, as well as
various other aspects of sexuality. This is why wellbutrin, a dopamine agonist and antidepressant, is prescribed for
those for whom other antidepressants causes sexual side effects, for example. Dopamine is one step away from
conversion to adrenaline, which has the opposite effect over the long term (even though a brief burst can sometimes
be associated with horniness in those with young and healthy sexual systems.
Last edited by DrSmellThis; 07-20-2008 at 05:18 PM. Reason: misspelling
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
The part of adrenaline relative to horniness reminds me of some people I've
known before where it would seem they were getting along. Then out of no where this huge fight would break out. And
always shortly after that they're hugging and kissing on each other.
I wasn't quite sure if it done
conciously or not. But they did seem to fight over the smallest thing just to jack up the emotional level and then
make out.
That seems fairly dysfuncitonal, but whatever works for you.
If I'm the rubber and your the glue..then I'd probably get some, and you'd just be sticky
Yeah, possibly the adrenaline
is a significant cause in that case. Other factors might be testosterone levels spiking, and post fight
endorphins.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
Great thread! Here’s some thoughts about the types and extent of phero influence (my opinions only, informed
only by obsessive reading on the subject, and lots of personal experimentation).
The good Doc is really hitting
the nail on the head above, about the inter-connectedness of how we affect one another. I have some building-block
ideas that underlie all my phero experimentation:
* Our bodies release certain substances into the environment,
which others can detect (consciously or unconsciously.) Certain of these substances affect the mood, autonomic
state, brain activity, mental focus, sexual arousal, positive perception, and endocrine state of other humans (I can
cite studies for each of those effects). Modern hygiene certainly interferes with the natural human phero process;
yet for better or worse civilized people are “stuck” with modern hygiene.
* Human behavior (esp.
sexual behavior, which is what we’re all interested in here) is influenced by the above. But humans (and all
higher primates) are not automatically driven to stereotyped behavior, because of our more developed forebrains.
Lower mammals will mate if all the hormonal and situational conditions are “correct”; but the higher
primate’s forebrain can override a hormonal state of readiness. This has been proven in ape behavior and
humans as well (studies of castrates, etc.) And it’s pretty much common sense if you think about it. The point
of it all is this: there’s a limit on what pheros can do. Pheros can help get her in a state of physiological
readiness, but you still may have to deal with her unique human psychological state at that time. Unless of course
you give her a frontal lobotomy I suppose, or enough tequila to put her higher brain to sleep.
* That individual
human psychological state I mentioned above is the real wildcard in the whole mating game. That can override
attractiveness, sexual arousal, and everything else you’ve worked so hard to set up. Doc can tell you about
all that, but that’s where you get into individual and unpredictable preferences, moral compunctions, etc.
having to do with both genetic predilection as well as the growth experiences of a particular woman. So to be widely
successful over time, you’ll need to become psychologically perceptive and persuasive, in addition to all your
other attractive points.
* I think pheros can also act as repulsive agents, or as gating inhibitors. For
example, some pheros may be intended to drive males into their own territory, or for dominant males to drive away
inferior males. This may be why some civilizations developed group male bathing, or ritualized Western hygiene in
general, to allow males to work more closely in groups without antagonizing one another. Washing off the pheros
makes them more aromatically “childlike” (unthreatening). I have more thoughts about
attraction-repulsion phero “gating”, but haven’t really proven all that to myself yet...
*
Anthropologists have observed distinct non-verbal human cues and responses, unfolded in specific order, as common to
successful “mating encounters” among strangers, and across all cultures. Even primarily psychological
writers such as Stendhal inadvertently describe the same stages. [Amazingly Stendhal, writing in 1822, predicted
that in 100 years underlying brain activity for attraction would be understood by scientists. He was right, but it
actually took over 150 years for scientists to make much progress! Stendhal also gives this cryptic one-word
footnote in De L'Amour: “Scents.”] I believe phero effects are a part of this unconscious courtship
behavior, especially during a successful approach. I think pheros unconsciously contribute to readiness, focus, and
attractiveness during a first encounter. But pheros alone will not substitute for the “proper” unfolding
of the non-verbal human courtship ritual.
* The “thunderbolt” discussed in earlier posts (“love
at first sight”) seems to arise more out of the individual psychological side of all this. If someone is in a
state of emotional readiness (Stendhal), or predisposed toward a certain psychological type by childhood experiences
(Hendricks), they will likely feel that dramatic instant attraction if they meet someone close to their personal
unconscious “ideal”. A less dramatic version of passionate “falling in love” seems to be
prompted by an interruption of the universal human courting stages by a period of mixed signals from one partner.
Tennov and, more poetically, Stendhal, describe that psychological process of falling in love, which is much more a
mental state than a state of sexual desire.
Last edited by Irish; 07-22-2008 at 11:17 AM. Reason: grammar, sp
Since he so rarely posts, I
have to remind people almost every time that Irish is one of the most respected posters in the now substantial
history of the forum. He is also one of my very few personal favorites, going way back. I have long wished he posted
more frequently (hint, hint ). The post above, of course, shows why.
Irish was making great posts the day I
joined the forum, and was part of the reason I joined, along with a few other interesting posters. That was LONG
time ago.
BTW, on a somewhat related note, it would be nice if Bruce considered rescinding the ban on PMs after
all this time so that forum members would be able to keep in touch with each other again. I really don't like
posting my personal email for the whole universe to see. It doesn't seem that we have any known people hanging out
here these days who would be at risk for abusing it.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
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