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  1. #31
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    visit-red-300x50PNG
    I'm a little concerned about

    supply too Mobes. I'm thinking of upping my pre-order to two bottles of concentrate. Hear that Doc?

    This whole

    question came up the last time Doc released a batch.

    If this truly is the last of Doc's master stock, I wonder

    if Bruce would give forum members a week to purchase before releasing it to the regular market, maybe in the "Forum

    Club" section. A limit of 2 bottles of each formulation per customer sounds reasonable.


  2. #32
    Phero Guru Rbt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idesign View Post

    ...



    Niche perfumers have a better chance at creating a great perfume, but so many are subject to ego and thus

    triviality. A few good perfumers have left the big houses for creative freedom. Not all of them are good, a few are.



    The same holds true for natural perfumery. I've tried many of them, and most are not wearable. What they hope

    to accomplish in a perfume comes across mostly as an acceptable room spray.

    All that to say that we have a

    remarkable opportunity with Pheros. It bridges the gap between what modern perfumery has left empty

    and what classical perfumery once strived for: pure attraction.

    The fact that its formulated with natural

    constituents which are historically proven attractants is a bonus.
    ...
    Quick comment:

    One of

    the few sources I now use for personal fragrances is a place whose initials are LP(Magical)P (not sure if I should

    name names). The concoctions are considered "potions" and as far as I know are what would be considered "natural"

    (they seem to be primarily essential oil blends). Far better than most any commercial product I've tried (we are

    excluding Pheros here...) in many cases. The only real problem I have is that one of my "scent test" subjects keep

    telling me many remind her of the scent of bath soap(s).
    The opposite of love isn't hate.
    It's apathy
    .

  3. #33
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    If it is not a competitor of LS

    and you are not attempting to market for your benefit, we have no problem with you posting a link. If it is a

    competitor, you can still mention the name. Another forum is often mentioned here with no adverse effect so long as

    you don't use this forum to sell their products or slander them. Why not an innocent, independent and unrelated

    retailer of non-competitive products?
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  4. #34
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Sure Rbt, you can name names and

    even provide a link as long as its not a site that sells human pheromone products.

    Yes, that's the gist of so

    many natural perfume products. A lot of them smell awfully nice, but its excruciatingly difficult to create a real

    perfume from only natural materials.

    For over a hundred years our noses have been trained to accept certain

    chemical additions to perfume. That's not necessarily a bad thing. One sniff of an early Guerlain or Patou

    perfume on a woman and you'll know what I mean.

    The problem has come in the last decade or two when costs and

    regulations began to prohibit the use of certain raw materials. The result is more chemical than acceptable.

    The

    constituent scents of raw materials have been isolated into molecular shadows of the real thing. A rose is no

    longer a rose, but the formulation of the idea of a rose. That's what we've been trained to know and

    expect.

    When you use a natural Rose, the memory of a garden filled with complex and intoxicating urges triggers

    something different from the substitute, which is "prettier".

    To your point (finally), a modern nose reads this a

    "soap". The scents used in the natural perfume are not artfully or skillfully blended. What comes across is is not

    perfume, which is much more than the sum of its parts. I don't mean this as a negative criticism of your mentioned

    product, since I've not smelled it. I only point out what I've experienced with naturally formulated

    scents.

    That's one of the things which makes Pheros so special. Its good, very good.
    Last edited by idesign; 06-29-2008 at 09:03 PM.


  5. #35
    Phero Guru Rbt's Avatar
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    The problem is is that LPP did come

    out with a few pheromone-containing products of their own. Not a major part of their catalog, but the first did

    contain AD products (they now use other suppliers as well). More a sideline experiment and not a major line but...



    I have to say that I really am not that fond of the "soapier" smelling mixes (from anyone). The ones that approach

    Pheros type effects are my prefferred products. It was just interesting to note how many were "soap-scented."

    Granted they were made as potions, not as perfumes.
    The opposite of love isn't hate.
    It's apathy
    .

  6. #36
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    I can't fault your judgment on

    either issue. And I fully agree about the soapy smelling stuff.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  7. #37
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    * Mobes: Here in Portland the

    temperatures in the 90's and above have prevented me from working at all on this in the last several days due to no

    air conditioning. I have to keep the stuff "underground" to keep it cool. So you are safe to order two

    bottles.

    It's becoming apparent that I'll have to include more concentrate than originally anticipated due to

    demand. Thankfully, I've not added the water to any of the bottles yet.

    I think around tomorrow or so I'll try

    to make a decision as to the numbers of the concentrate.

    * Yes, I can assure you this is the last of the product.

    I stretched it out as long as I could. Really there was quite a bit of product for a vintage batch, if you consider

    how long we've been selling it. People from all over the world are using it now. I haven't even been hoarding any

    for myself, although I may have to hold a few bottles back for yours truly and a couple friends/family members this

    time

    * Natural perfumery is indeed extremely difficult. I often notice that natural perfumes smell "artsy

    craftsy", or smell good out of the bottle but not after sitting on your skin.

    At one point, I almost thought it

    impossible to make a natural perfume; in the earlier days of trying to do it. One perfumer even discouraged me,

    saying it is impossible to just mix oils (without employing perfume chemistry) and make a good perfume.

    But even

    if you know how, supply issues surrounding the best ingredients are making the whole thing almost prohibitive.

    Without good ingredients, I cannot do what I intend to do; and am well capable of doing. Before doing another

    perfume, I'd have to solve some difficult problems along these lines. I'm telling you, that part takes some of the

    fun out of it, since the artist in you just wants to get the good ingredients and create. With unlimited access to

    the best ingredients, I'd make something very good tomorrow. This is what derailed the last perfume I had worked on

    for two months already. It was a fresher, vintage scent similar to one created at the time of Napoleon, with citrus

    and floral elements. But I could not tolerate the results with less than first rate ingredients throughout. I may

    have to work out a compromise or 100 at some point, in order to continue.

    We will talk about this more at some

    point, no doubt.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 07-01-2008 at 05:50 PM. Reason: typos
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  8. #38
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idesign View Post
    I'm a

    little concerned about supply too Mobes. I'm thinking of upping my pre-order to two bottles of concentrate. Hear

    that Doc?

    This whole question came up the last time Doc released a batch.

    If this truly is the last of Doc's

    master stock, I wonder if Bruce would give forum members a week to purchase before releasing it to the regular

    market, maybe in the "Forum Club" section. A limit of 2 bottles of each formulation per customer sounds

    reasonable.
    Whatever you guys work out with Bruce, and whatever Bruce decides, is OK with me. Obviously, one

    thing I wouldn't want is for someone to hoard a bunch and then try to sell it back to folks at a profit, etc.

    I

    may just put aside 20 bottles of concentrate. But I'll revisit this in a day or so.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    *

    Mobes: Here in Portland the temperatures in the 90's and above have prevented me from working at all on this

    in the last several days due to no air conditioning. I have to keep the stuff "underground" to keep it cool. So you

    are safe to order two bottles.
    GOOD! Thay haven't been working on it. Funds shipped today for cc usage,

    and should hit destination by Thursday! End results: 2 concentrations and 2 regulars

    Sorry about the lack

    of A/C.

    You won't have to worry about me selling nothing ... unless ... someone starts biding at $1000 ...

    don't think I could turn that down, Doc.
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

  10. #40
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    But

    even if you know how, supply issues surrounding the best ingredients are making the whole thing almost prohibitive.

    Without good ingredients, I cannot do what I intend to do; and am well capable of doing. Before doing another

    perfume, I'd have to solve some difficult problems along these lines. I'm telling you, that part takes some of the

    fun out of it, since the artist in you just wants to get the good ingredients and create. With unlimited access to

    the best ingredients, I'd make something very good tomorrow. This is what derailed the last perfume I had worked on

    for two months already. It was a fresher, vintage scent similar to one created at the time of Napoleon, with citrus

    and floral elements. But I could not tolerate the results with less than first rate ingredients throughout. I may

    have to work out a compromise or 100 at some point, in order to continue.

    We will talk about this more at some

    point, no doubt.
    Doc, have you run up against any particular ingredient which is impossible to get

    nowadays? Anything extinct, either from lack of supply or over-regulation? Just curious.


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by idesign View Post
    Doc, have

    you run up against any particular ingredient which is impossible to get nowadays? Anything extinct, either

    from lack of supply or over-regulation? Just curious.
    Yeah, Doc. You gonna answer that incriminating

    question?

    Geez, Idesign ... you're such a tease and a trouble maker.
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

  12. #42
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOBLEYC57 View Post



    Geez, Idesign ... you're such a tease and a trouble maker.
    I'm at least as innocent as I

    think I should be, and twice as much as you think I might be, even in my worser moments.

    My

    question was purely academic, of course.


  13. #43
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idesign View Post
    Doc,

    have you run up against any particular ingredient which is impossible to get nowadays? Anything extinct, either

    from lack of supply or over-regulation? Just curious.
    There are a number of ingredients that are more

    difficult to get, as you might imagine.

    But if I had to pick one at the present moment, it would be sandalwood,

    which is truly a staple of perfuming.

    Due to over farming of this somewhat endangered tree, it is really hard to

    get the oil where the trees are aged the proper amount of time. Most companies, when they sell it at all, are

    selling oil from immature trees that lack the qualities necessary to use it as a primary ingredient. Whereas I'd

    never have considered using the inferior Australian variety before, now that's about all you can find. Good Mysore

    is really tough to come by, certainly in quantity at reasonable prices.

    Sandalwood is the most used ingredient in

    traditional natural perfuming; and is a primary ingredient in Pheros. There are several varieties of very

    good sandalwood in Pheros.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  14. #44
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idesign View Post
    Yes,

    that's the gist of so many natural perfume products. A lot of them smell awfully nice, but its excruciatingly

    difficult to create a real perfume from only natural materials.

    The constituent scents of raw materials have

    been isolated into molecular shadows of the real thing. A rose is no longer a rose, but the formulation of the idea

    of a rose. That's what we've been trained to know and expect.

    When you use a natural Rose, the memory of a

    garden filled with complex and intoxicating urges triggers something different from the substitute, which is

    "prettier".
    As usual, you hold your own quite well when discussing perfumery.

    Rose is a great example.

    Rose in a modern perfume is largely created with alipathic aldehydes, as in Chanel. These are very nice smelling

    chemicals; some of the most useful in perfuming as far as that goes. But they are still chemicals.

    Conversely,

    the typical natural perfumer will just chuck some rose oil into a perfume and call it a rose perfume. This approach

    also fails, to my own standards. Rose oil just doesn't contain all the important qualities and subtleties that a

    real rose flower in nature has. The top end is particularly lacking.

    In order to get closer to the smell of a

    real rose in nature, and the emotional effect; you have to start with rose oil, possibly several varieties for

    different qualities, and then begin to a build a scent with more of the essential qualities using other natural oils

    to create the whole complex of effects. To use a painting metaphor, it's like saying you would use other colors

    besides red to paint a red rose. There are various ways to do it, depending on what kind of rose you want. I wrote

    about this in some detail in the "perfuming basics" thread; I think with a basic recipe.

    Natural perfumers tend

    to neglect all that, because they are typically new agey artsy craftsy types that think it's already beautiful

    enough to use all organic ingredients. Because nature is, you know, beautiful and all. They typically lack the crazy

    passion, creativity, sick aesthetics, and killer instinct that the best perfumers have. That, of course, is just my

    opinion, and I suppose, prejudice. There are exceptions.

    Unfortunately the best perfumers are often prisoners of

    their accounting departments, as idesign points out.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  15. #45
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    Question

    Doc ... is there going to be an

    announcement when Pheros will be in stock or do we need to keep an eye in the store?

    Thanks!
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

  16. #46
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Mobes, I will give you all

    advance notice so that, no matter what, forum people will have an advantage over the general public. I really want

    anyone who wants the concentrate to be able to order early. Also, I doubt the general public is even interested in

    the concentrate, or knows about it.

    I need to talk to Bruce about the labels, which is the last snag. I found

    some of the old, pretty lids (now out of production, since company went out of business) on which the labels fit

    perfectly. But over half the bottles in this shipment will have some generic lids (as with the last shipment, since

    I had to go through another company for them), so that those bottles won't have a flat surface that a label would

    stick neatly to. The bottles are the same fish bowl design as the last batch.

    As soon as I resolve this issue

    with the boss, I'll be able to give you the correct time of shipment.

    Upon further reflection, I think I might

    keep the number of concentrate bottles to 15, like last time. That will leave more of the perfume for everybody.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  17. #47
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    Hi,

    Given that there

    seems to be so much demand for the concentrate, I wonder if us folks might end up getting any at all ;-)

    I'd

    love to get one (concentrate) as well.

    Doc,
    Any specific date when this is going to be available on the store.

    Me thinks 15 bottles are gonna off the shelf too damn fast so need to keep a lookout ;-)

  18. #48
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Since I managed to get a bottle

    of concentrate the last round and also have two bottles, one unopened, of the final mix I will not be competing for

    any. Good luck to all of you though. I love the stuff but only wear it on special occasions.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  19. #49
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    I'm not Doc, but I've traded

    posts with him on this Forum.

    So far I think the interest count is a bit less than 15 for the concentrate.

    Keep your dial tuned to this channel and you'll get plenty of notice from our sponsor.


  20. #50
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    Default I'll take a bottle.

    Concentrate

    or regular. I'll take one either way.

    Happy to get some... that's all!

    PS: What else does the

    doc sell?

  21. #51
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by philalex View Post
    PS:

    What else does the doc sell?
    Good advice. He also shrinks heads in his spare time but that's another

    story. Welcome to the forum.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  22. #52
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Yes, so make sure you don't

    piss him off. Consider how he makes his living:

    "Head Shrinking. The skull is removed from the

    head; the maker would make an incision on the back of the neck and proceeded to remove all the skin and flesh from

    the cranium. Afterwards, they placed red seeds underneath the eyelids and sewed them shut. The mouth was held

    together with three palm pins. Fat from the flesh of the head was removed. The flesh was then boiled in water in

    which a number of herbs containing tannins were steeped, then dried with hot rocks and sand, while being molded by

    the preparer to retain its human feature."


    Word on the street says he's pretty good at it too.



  23. #53
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    LOL!!!!!

    Thanks for that

    highly accurate description of my counseling methods!

    (Still waiting to reach Bruce at this time)
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  24. #54
    Phero Guru Rbt's Avatar
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    Just to make sure I'm "counted," as

    I still have one unopened regular bottle and at least 2/3rds of another regular bottle I'm going to pass (resist

    mightily) buying any more as I suspect I'll still have some left when I enter the next life. Pheros is such a GREAT

    product I would certainly like one of the uninitiated to have a shot... (he said while muttering something that

    sounds like "my preciousssss....").
    The opposite of love isn't hate.
    It's apathy
    .

  25. #55
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Such gallantry among my

    customers!

    Thanks for the appreciation, Rbt. It's truly been one of the special things in my life; to make

    something people in various places around the world could get an "atypical kind of pleasure" from.

    After studying

    oils and pheromones on my own for years; and discovering this impressive forum; all I wanted was to see if I could

    make a contribution here.

    The idea behind Pheros was to share with everyone the other half of pheromone

    and scent knowledge that people here weren't aware of, that I had studied. It was great, because at first all I did

    was talk about these things (analog pheromones, etc).

    And then people wanted to see an example, so I sent out

    samples of this thing I'd been working on for a year. It was weird because I kept obsessively making more of it,

    not knowing what the heck if anything would come of it.

    Next thing I know, Bruce is saying matter of factly,

    "Yes, fine, that's great. We'll start with 500 bottles"! He says that within an hour of receiving his sample, and

    I'm like, "Oh boy. 500?! This guy ain't playing. This is absolutely great, but oh crap, I have to get my butt in

    gear!"
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  26. #56
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    And what a gear your butt must

    have been in Doc. How many bottles do you suppose you've produced? When did you first send Bruce the initial

    samples?


  27. #57
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idesign View Post
    And what

    a gear your butt must have been in Doc. How many bottles do you suppose you've produced? When did you first send

    Bruce the initial samples?
    I'm going to keep the sales totals to myself. But it's been pretty successful by

    L-S standards for a specialty product with no real marketing to speak of (nowhere near the pherogiants NPA or PI,

    though) other than forum conversation. It has sold pretty steadily over the years, and has been exclusive to L-S,

    unlike other products.

    I don't remember when it was first offered. Several years ago, anyway. Too lazy to look

    it up. Time is basically a black hole to me anyway.

    I think I sent samples to a few forum members long before

    Bruce got any, to get product development feedback. That was when the fun started, because people had not smelled

    anything like it and were definitely surprised, partially because I was just a regular guy who surfed the forum. If

    you're a smell aficionado and have never smelled some of the pungent, organic, naughty ingredients, it's quite an

    experience. Very different from typical perfumes and scents.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  28. #58
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    If

    you're a smell aficionado and have never smelled some of the pungent, organic, naughty ingredients, it's quite an

    experience. Very different from typical perfumes and scents.
    Its unique to be sure. I've tried a

    couple dozen natural, non-commercial scents from half that many "perfumers" and really this is one of 2-3 that I

    even think of as perfume. And Pheros is the best of the lot by far.

    I wonder why? Everyone has access to

    ingredients, that only leaves the composer.

    Aftel's stuff is very nice, but costs a fortune and only lasts for

    about 5 mins on the skin. Tauer has a great accord here or there, but its in-your-face too much of the time.

    I

    suppose a lot of it amounts to preference, but there is a relatively well developed standard on how you evaluate a

    fragrance.

    And then there are the "pungent, organic, naughty" things going on in Pheros. Nobody has that.


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    Hello. I am new to the board and

    pheromones, but love good colognes. I would really be interested in getting a bottle of concentrate if available.



    Keep up the good work and hopefully your success with this product over the last 4+ years leads to another

    ground breaking cologne in the next year or 2.

  30. #60
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Yes, we just have to pressure

    Doc into cutting loose again with his "killer instinct and crazed aesthetic".

    Welcome to the forum jomo.


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