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  1. #91
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Thanks, Doc. You did catch

    where I was going with that. I had begun to wonder if I had gone too far and lost my audience. Let me digest it for

    a bit before I respond.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  2. #92
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    We've kind of wandered of

    track here, to some degree. We were discussing what makes up an alpha and have gone to comparitive morality. While

    part of the same thing they are two different topics, in my eyes. I was trying, with my questions, to point out that

    morality is to generalized and non-specific because it is tied to context. Eating people would be seen as a bad

    thing in this country but in other times and places would be obligatory in the context. Perhaps a poor comparison

    but it does make the point.

    Recently I had a conversation with a young girl about sexual morality, yes she was

    over 18 and it wasn't about me getting laid. I do not have any interest in robbing cradles. She recently had her

    heart broken, as young girls are want to do, and it led into a conversation that has lasted a couple weeks now. It

    has gone a long way towards defining my own outlook on morality in sexuality. However, that is not the point of the

    thread.

    More than anything, I do believe that an alpha is capable of defining their own morality which in turn

    acts as a model for others. If the person is not leading and defining roles for others through example is that

    person truly an alpha? Or is that person a self determining 'Lone Wolf'?
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  3. #93
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth View Post
    More

    than anything, I do believe that an alpha is capable of defining their own morality which in turn acts as a model

    for others. If the person is not leading and defining roles for others through example is that person truly an

    alpha? Or is that person a self determining 'Lone Wolf'?
    I think an alpha will definitely be "leading

    and defining roles for others through example".

    I think he may define his own morality inwardly, but outwardly

    not much beyond whatever common morality exists in his sphere.

    Definition of terms might get in the way again,

    but I think an alpha will lead within a set of moral boundaries which he accepts both for their commonly accepted

    wisdom, and practical usefulness.

    An alpha also needs to work amongst the capabilities and moral sensibilities

    of those he leads. If he's too radical, he'll only attract the fringe. If his personal qualities are great

    enough - and his vision articulate - he may pull the tide toward himself.

    A "lone wolf" really does not engage,

    and inspires fear more than leadership.


  4. #94
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    Idesign, I agree that Belgareth asks and says things that make you write a

    thesis in order to reply to them fairly, and wait until you have the time to do so.
    Belgareth?!? Mr

    Pot, meet Mr Kettle.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    Bel, I guess what I'm suggesting in this thread

    is, basically, that alphas are "ethically inclined" people, in my humble opinion; which is to say their lives are

    about something one could call "integrity".
    This one statement sums up, in my humble opinion also, what I

    think is central to an alpha's thinking and behavior (and "being"?). You've stated this before Doc, and it can't

    be stressed enough.

    I want to reply to more of your post, but need an amateur's handicap. You study this sort

    of thing for a living, I draw pictures... give me day or so.

    .... calling Belgareth challenging... sheesh!

    you guys are twins on that one...
    Last edited by idesign; 05-06-2008 at 07:19 PM.


  5. #95
    Phero Guru Rbt's Avatar
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    It is my observation that if anyone

    wanted to make up a list of "alpha males" on this forum all they would have to do is note who has posted on this

    particular thread...

    Seems that most all *are* the alpha males of the forum...

    (although IMO there are a

    few names missing...)
    The opposite of love isn't hate.
    It's apathy
    .

  6. #96
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Your probably right

    on both points. Although I expect that every one of them is going to deny it.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  7. #97
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    I was re-reading his thread and

    found many quotes that I felt were appropriate and intersting so was thinking about bringing this thread back to

    life. On reading my way through the whole thing again I felt that this could summarize what is real and masculine

    and the essense of being the alpha male.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    This culture is very, very confused about

    what it wants, and you can trace that to the fall of fatherhood and impoverishment of masculinity which came along

    with the industrial revolution and the removal of men from their homes.

    In the bigger picture, it is also a

    radically changing world. The earth is getting smaller, and animalistic cruelties are no longer very useful for men

    in their masculinity, relative to other qualities. The stereotypic macho qualities are actually quite trivial and

    peripheral now, and will doubtless continue to become even more so.

    True understanding, emotional, and

    intellectual qualities become much more important than either "physical alphaness", or those personal qualities that

    go along with physical alphaness, with the anachronistic, outmoded pseudo-alphaness; that are related to it.



    Welcome to the future!

    Yet people still buy into cheap macho displays as somehow marking leaders. This is

    truly nauseating. People should have woken up to this forty years ago, when they instead assasinated King (the

    larger society all contributed to the event).

    There is still much societal confusion about what it means to be

    an alpha or "pansy". People who think John Wayne or Dirty Harry is the ideal for being alpha have as much to learn

    as those who think a mild mannered, sensitive man with some effeminate qualities is a pansy, or cannot be alpha.



    What ends up happening is we somehow cycle between macho "jerks" and "wimps" (who lack integrity, and the many

    subtle varieties of courage Belgareth and I mentioned) without ever getting that these are both bullshit. They are

    both empty shells where a man should be.

    Fortunately, I think you can go back to the basic ideas of fatherhood,

    of being a steward of the planet and its inhabitants, and find that there is a rich, well grounded source of

    untapped masculine ideals.

    We need to turn the page on the "old" way (really the twentieth century way, the

    confused outgrowth of the industrial revolution, overlaid with wars. Masculinity, though still outmoded for today,

    was much richer previously.) of looking at masculinity, strength, leadership, courage, and the like; and move into a

    new future.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  8. #98
    Newbie jumprunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theman03 View Post
    A.

    Shouting implies that the particular person who is shouting doesn't feel important enough to be heard and thus has

    to resort to "shouting" to be heard.!

    Not always true, I remember when I was in the Army, I was a

    training (platoon) leader in basic, and this was the norm. You have to distinguish what is an alpha personality and

    what is a militant, or paramilitary personality. The military is involved with absolute power, control, and

    brainwashing, moreover by bringing out the violent side of people and the warrior personality.

    So shouting in

    this regard is not an attempt to be heard, it is a power kick and a mechanism for control, ie if I tell someone to

    attack, I expect him to go into a violent bloodthirsty rage charging after the target.

    Passive reasoning doesnt

    work to well in the military, you have to be a psycho to put yourself in a position that is life threatening, not

    about being an alpha male but more about developing a psycotic personality, what it takes to get someone to fight

    and temporarily forget about fear.

    I guess I should say something else about this, this militant personality

    sometimes shows up in me and tends to scare women away very quickly, a problem Ive got when talking to women. I dont

    know how many times, I could see a girl was interested in me at first sight, then after talking to me everything

    goes downhill quickly and they completely lose interest, I am good looking enough but my personality really seems to

    turn women off a lot of times.

  9. #99
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    Yeah,your right about the

    army thing,Im in the army too and they scream.But thats just an alpha male doing his job,he doesnt act like that

    after the job,then hed be a total nutjob.
    My seargent screams at me,insults me(hes not allowed but he does it

    anyhow) but after the job hes a very cool chill guy.

  10. #100
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    Although,I have a

    question.All these traits about what being a alpha is all about.How do we know they'r real.
    I guess I'm having

    some doubts,because all my friends say a true alpha male is violent,aggresive and a tad bit crazy.Kinda like Mike

    Tyson.I like mike tyson,but I think is personality is very weak.They also say an alpha male cheats on his wife and

    sleeps with multiple women,thus promiscuous.
    I highly doubt they're right.Can anyone tell me anything on the

    subject?

  11. #101
    Moderator Mtnjim's Avatar
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    You're absolutely right, what your

    friends are describing is an asshole, not an alpha male. A true alpha doesn't need to scream and yell, he can give

    orders in a cool, calm voice and they'll be carried out.
    Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite.
    --Lazarus Long

  12. #102
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    Thank you,i was just

    curious a bit.My grandpa always told me that a real man doesnt engage in selfdestructive lifestyle,especially

    promiscuity.
    Thank you,I didn't know there were other people who shared this mindset.

  13. #103
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Read through this thread and

    you'll see a lot said about what being an alpha means. While all men have character flaws, seldom will you find a

    true alpha behaving in the way your friends describe.

    Agree with Jim, bullies ain't alphas.


  14. #104
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    I agree with your grandfather,

    Jim and ID, men, real alpha men, can be a gentleman and never raise his voice. He doesn't need too. He also

    doesn't need to worry about whether others think he is a man or a leader. He goes about living his life in a

    fashion that denotes his personal strength and comfort with himself. He isn't a phony and doesn't put on airs. And

    a true alpha male rarely sees a need to fight and never to threaten. He also is gentle and protective of others.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  15. #105
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    yes,I guess it's true all

    menj have character flaws,Ican always try to fix them though.I can never really be perfect but I can always try to

    be a better person then I was yesterday.
    Thank you all for replyng,and sorry for my grammar.

  16. #106
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrei30000 View Post
    yes,I

    guess it's true all menj have character flaws,Ican always try to fix them though.I can never really be perfect but

    I can always try to be a better person then I was yesterday.
    Thank you all for replyng,and sorry for my

    grammar.

    That's a great attitude which will take you far.


  17. #107
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrei30000 View Post
    yes,I

    guess it's true all menj have character flaws,Ican always try to fix them though.I can never really be perfect but

    I can always try to be a better person then I was yesterday.
    Thank you all for replyng,and sorry for my

    grammar.
    That's definately the right point of view. Good luck!
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  18. #108
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    Hello again guys,and thank

    you for your kind replys.Damm,I have so many questions about what being a man is.Mos t of the time I know deep

    inside whats right and whats wrong.But what I keep hearing recently is just ridiculous,so here it is.
    Almost

    everybody nowdays(that I know) states that only gay people know how to dress and straight guys have no sense in what

    to wear.I personally think this is ridiculous,I mean come on,I have to be gay in order to dress good,wtf.
    I thought

    a real man should always know how to dress.I thought it's mandatory.We also hear this in the media.
    What is

    everybodys thought on this one?

  19. #109
    Phero Guru Rbt's Avatar
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    Dress the way you feel is most

    comfortable and right for you. The only ones in the media who critisize the way men dress are those who want to sell

    clothes or stuck-up "fashion experts" without a life of thier own.

    The opposite of love isn't hate.
    It's apathy
    .

  20. #110
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    Wow, I just read this whole

    thread. Lots of good information here, GOLDEN

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