Androstadienone raw form found

[**DONOTDELETE**]

gents,

I dont think that \"erox\" or \"pherin\" can stop people purchasing -dienone\" as a \"chemical\" for their own use. Only if you market it for a purpose (that they hold a patent for) would you be liable to arouse them. Further, what is the geographic extent of their patent? I will try to check if they have filed anything in the UK. I can\'t believe that they have a \"worldwide\" patent on their products, thats if you can consider -dienone \"their product\". I understand your misgivings, the US seems to be very litigation happy (and you seem to be able to patent even water if you have a new twist on it!). Still, it doesnt matter as I don\'t think that selling dienone in ethanol as bottled \"dienone in ethanol\" would be of any interest to erox/pherin at all, since they don\'t seem to want to enter the \"attractant\" market. Still, you could always add it to the other \"chemicals\" found in human sweat, in the requisite proportions, and sell it as...\"Concentrated human sweat\" or some such BS. I hate the idea of some company patenting my bodily fluids....barstewards!

have a happy day and may we raise two fingers to erox.

ps maybe i\'ll email erox and see if they would sell some, should annoy them..

[PHP 87]

Again, if Steraloids can sell the raw form of A-dienone, why couldn\'t someone re-sell A-dienone in it\'s same raw form with perhaps instructions on how to mix it with ethanol without implying a specific use?

[Nutt]

if erox arent going after steraloids (sp?) then I think that someone could get away with selling crystals over the net. I know I\' buy, hell, if I werent in the UK Id try to buy direct from steraloids

How is this stuff made? could a easily prepared precursor be sold, and prepared by the purchaser?

[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: Nutz ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

gents

I have done a bit of research, and I see the extent of the problem. I dont like what I read, erox is nothing to worry about. They only have patents for use of dienone in perfume. Pherin on the other hand have 132 patents worldwide on the use of 16-androstenes to manipulate human function. This does not bode well for using dienone. I think as soon as you mix it with ethanol or any other accepted carrier you violate their patent, as it becomes a pharmacy product. The thing that worries me is that they seem to be determined to patent ALL use of androstenes to alter behaviour. Still, I dont think they will touch \"pig pheromones\" unless they find a \"novel\" use for them, but watch out these guys are after inventing a whole new approach to medicine via the nose! If you are interested a search on pherin at www.gb.espace.com will give you an idea of the extent of their patents, and more interestingly, just how far they have taken phero research. They are starting to target different receptors in the VNO to cause a variety of changes in human physiology. They seem to have even patented the dna map of these receptors. Still I think I will try mixing things with their \"pillow spray\"...I will of course persist in trying to find a source of dienone for personal use, but since, if pherin are to be believed, such a powerful chemical, it may well end up as a controlled substance as well.

congrats thunder on the longest thread here..

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Nutz, in a word, no. You would have to have either an organic sythesis lab, and then I am guessing you\'d have less then desirable results, or a biochem lab. I believe that unless you had the protocol for the chem lab, you\'d end up with tar. Unless you had a source of the enzymes, the precursors, and don\'t forget redox reagents, it would be impossible.

One other note, these thing are hydrophobic, so the ability the mess with them biochemically begins to become a problem (most biochem in a test tube is done in buffers, ie water.)

Finally the amount of EPA, and other govt agencies that are around, required paper work/certification/regulation would make this next to impossable. Sorry to be the messanger.

[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: Walter Mitty ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thankyou RatSpeaker for doing your homework.

I also read through all of the Pherin material and boy do they want to control a lot of behavior the -dienone. It would not only be Erox I\'m fighting but as I\'ve said before \"the big brother\" The only thing I did not see Pherin describing anything about attracting the opposite sex, I\'m thinking they shelled that branch out to Erox as they are thinking of much bigger things than this. Alot of research and dollars have gone into their study. Also, I can only buy the product that specifically sais \"not for human or animal use,\" \"research use only.\" If I made a web page,bought a domain and said the hell with all the paper work and everything and just ordered and sold as for experimental purposes only. How long would I last. Long enough to recoup the money for the bottling, labeling, credit card gear, web page design and a makeshift accounting department.

Thanks for the congrats ratspeaker.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

If any one want to pool their money we can get the cost down. Only thing I need a scale to measure that small. Remember. 5mg
comes out to about 6 grains of salt if that.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey, what happened to the thread on Natural Attraction?!

Thunder, so how much you can you get the price down on the -dienone by purchasing in quantity?

[Nutt]

Yeah, I suspected it wasent going to be a reaction you could stop one stage before and \' just add water\' or something [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

I for one would probably buy raw crystals through a reseller, how about a \' group buy\' where a few of us buy crystals via one person dealing with steraloids? for research purposes on non human / animal subjects of course :-)

If you do this, I wouldent even mention adding ethanol, and be content with makeing a small profit to recoup the cost of buying your initial batch [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]. I would suggest keeping it to this forum rather than opening a webpage, or at least keeping the webpage passworded to prevent getting on google or similar.

I doubt that a small operation like that would register on radar with erox, hell, maybe we could sell our research to em

[img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: Nutz ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yes, selling a batch to people on this thread is a good start. The -dienone needs to be real-world tested by other gurus on this forum before we invest more time pursuing legal battles. If it\'s a dud or no better than -none, -nol and -rone, then the battle is not worth it, and we hang it up. However, if 10-20 of us rave that this is the \"real deal\", then we start talking about legal battles.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

By the way, I just order the Natural Attraction unisex pillow spray presumed to contained -dienone. What happened to the thread?! Bruce, did you delete it?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I wore -dienone tonightr the hell of it. Wasn\'t going any where special just to market An attractive female employer of King Stoopids who always rings me up because I go late at night is usually kind of short and snooty with me. This time She was getting awfully close and making conversation with me, even with a wedding ring on her fingerto . I kept trying to away because I sprayed one spray right on my neck right before I went in and I could smell it. I tried to cover it with Curve, which works well by the way, but it was still strong. It almost seemed the longer my solution set in the drawer, the stronger it got. As opposed to just mixing it and using it immediately. Any way I would call that a hit compared to previous behaviour by her.
Gent\'s...Thankyou for all your support and help. Walter....Kohl.....Bruce....Travis..sorry I cant name everyone. I have family coming into town and and done with this project . It\'s being shelfed. If anyone wants to talk further you have my email
rickarmstrong3@attbi.com

I cannot spend anymore time on this. I have Cisco to worry about I\'ve put off to obssess about this.I\'m done with this thread. Thanks again for the longest running thread ever.

Thunder

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I dunno if i\'m the odd one out here or something, but it seems like a lot of people on this thread are willing to pay a lot of extra money to get what Thunder made, or are(where) very anxious to see him market it. Why doesn\'t everyone just make thier own? I know it might be a bit of a hassle to mix it together and all, but it seems like a worthwhile endeavor. I myself am going to be doing this shortly.

I thought the problem might have been with the availability of 3,16-androstadien-3-one, since steraloids required Thunder to make a business account...but the same day I saw this I thought it would be an interesting idea to try. In 10 minutes I found a dozen other suppliers of the pure form of 3,16-androstadien-3-one. I sent emails to all of them asking if they sold to private individuals, and recieved a positive response from one of them within two days. As soon as shipping arrangements are made, I plan to order a 5mg vial and try to reproduce Thunder\'s experiment.

If all goes well, I\'ll try to keep you posted on the results (I\'d start a new thread though, this seems pretty long...)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Namtohecin, what company did you get a positive response from?

I\'ve thought about it... I think most suppliers would sell to individuals as long as you called & politely asked about it, making it a point that the chems in question are not scheduled (at least in the USA.)

What kind of different price ranges did you find amoung the different suppliers?

[Watcher]

Could it be possibe to set up a supply operation outside of the US say in europe australasia or africa or something im sure there are many suppliers of this androgen around the world (i heard something about australian customs requiring a import license to import any androgens to that country except there are at least 7 suppliers of human pheromone products down there including a727 and attraction) so that doesnt make sense remembering a problem DD had with customs a while back. And there was someone else even earlier who had problems except most shipments get through without problems ?????? all over the place in that country and also in the UK there have been missing shipments that disappear.

[Watcher]

Could it be possibe to set up a supply operation outside of the US say in europe australasia or africa or something im sure there are many suppliers of this androgen around the world (i heard something about australian customs requiring a import license to import any androgens to that country except there are at least 7 suppliers of human pheromone products down there including a727 and attraction) so that doesnt make sense remembering a problem DD had with customs a while back. And there was someone else even earlier who had problems except most shipments get through without problems ?????? all over the place in that country and also in the UK there have been missing shipments that disappear.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yeah, what company did you hear a positive response from. By the way, I think it\'s 4-16... not 3-16...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yeah it is 4-16, but lets not split hairs (3-16 is not possible, chemically speaking) But, after following this thread for quite some time, I have one notion that came to mind. If you were sold the raw chemical, and it is not a controlled substance, I don\'t see how this infringes on anything. If there are willing outlets for it, then they will supply a chemical. I don\'t think that Sigma could sue Fisher for selling a chemical. Quite honestly, I don\'t care if it is the missing ingredient that we\'ve all been waiting for. I\'d rather have some fun playing.

PS, Thunder, give yourself credit for getting the ball rolling. Now the rest of us are acting like Calvin when he got a nickle raise in his allowence (Now I can rule the world, Mwaaah ha ha ha!) Oh yeah, you should have enough to last you quite some time too...

[Nutt]

Im sceptical as to wether this stuff is as good as people seem to be hopeing, but I definatly wouldent trying it. I always assumed steraloids was the only supplier ( at least on the net :-) ) but if anyones done a little research into it then feel free to post a list of suppliers, and ther price lists for -dienone if ya have em [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks Walter...At the present rate I could probably go everyday twice a day for a monts and a half to two months. I checked out the other supplier. Looks kinda shady, but the chemical is listed there. No Price, no amounts, no order form, just email address and phone number in China. Shipping would be huge and be a long wait. If Namtohecim is right we should know in a month or two. I order other things over seas sometimes and unless your ready to pay big then get ready to check you mail box every day for a long long time.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The chemical company Thunder is talking about is ThinkerChem, which is the chemical company that gave me the positive reply. And yes, the \"3\",16-(etc) was a typo. What I am talking about is the \"4\",16-androstadien-3-one. Communication between me and them is kinda slow, the first reply took about 3 or 4 days. They are currently getting me a shipping price/chemical price. As it is based in China, I believe the long delay might be a result of the language barrier. Also, as Thunder said, I don\'t expect to be recieving the product anytime soon, as it is being shipping from China overseas. I am optimistically hoping for about a month long timeline or so. As I said before though, when I get more information, and/or recieve the product, I will start a new thread to discuss it. Things are kinda busy with me right now and I don\'t normally have time to check back here (sorry for the delay in posting, btw. I know some of you have been waiting). When I get more info, I will keep you up to date, though.