Androstadienone raw form found

[jvkohl]

Pherin is basically Erox Corp. at a higher level; for development of therapuetic pheromones--as opposed to simple fragrance R & D + marketing.

One Japanese research group reported that androstenol altered LH levels in women. George Preti reported at a conference that axillary secretions from men increased LH in women (and affected their mood). He also suggested that LH assays be used to distinguish a pheormone from something else in axillary secretions. I\'m sure we will hear more from him fairly soon. To my knowledge, no one has experimented with androsterone or androstenone to see if LH levels are affected. I\'m fairly certain that androsterone will have a positive impact, while androstenone will have a negative impact on LH. The positive affect of androsterone on mood/behavior is quite predictable--but not enough studies have been done. I\'m used to \"going beyond the data\" and for being known to do so. The Scent of Eros book was about 5 years ahead of its time.

George Preti told me that the Japanese group that reported on androstenol and LH used excessive amounts of androstenol (I\'ve forgotten how much, and don\'t feel like looking it up). Besides, it\'s a matter of perspective. Some people think that picogram amounts should be effective, others (like me) think that milligrams should be delivered to the nose (not just to the VNO).

Everyone wrote: \"The none nol and rone are simplications of a very complex science better ask james more on this one. At least SOE can be the only real product to say for certain they dont use pig none because it has zero amounts. Because it only contains androsterone and androstenol.\"

Good point! Anything I can say in this Forum will be a summary--I simply can\'t get into detail due to time constraints. I\'ve explained in previous posts some of the reasoning behind using only androsterone and androstenol. Others have commented on positive effects with androstenone. The bottom line for me was whether to include a urinous component (androstenone is always described as urinous) or whether to go with a musky (androstenol) and a \"clean smelling\" androsterone. Not much decision making in that choice. I had experimented with androsterone and the scientific rationale was exceptional for using it. Besides, I had not experimented with androstenone or androstenol, but at least a few people/reports confirmed that androstenol was pleasant in small quantities, while this was not the case for androstenone.

Reports that -dienone smells like androstenone are troublesome, since -dienone has been used to alter autonomic function, and even to help map the parts of the hypothalamus/brain that vary in their response according to sex. \"Needs more study,\" is the phrase that comes to mind, but it\'s also a phrase used most by psychologists, not biologists. From a biological perspective, using androstenol and androsterone in SoE was a safe bet--and it appears to be very effective. Not as an aphrodisiac, mind you, but as an enhancement.

If some people are getting more of an aphrodisical effect using androstenone, more power to them. Just because I don\'t understand it, doesn\'t mean it\'s not happening.

[travis]

James,

Correct me if I\'m wrong, what you are saying that SOE has something to do with hormones, it increases the hormone level of the person right? Now, SOE must be effective to women or men whos producing less hormones and these people are from 25 years old and on right? It is more as a mood lifter to them.

And SOE wont be to effective to people who are producing more hormones like the teens. Is that right?

Travis

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yes, from everything I heard, -dienone is a strong oderent, like -none, so a 0.02 mg limit is a good place to start. This is why I think the concentration of -dienone in Realm for Women must be very low (less than APC), since no one has ever reported smelling the pheros in it, even after the scent fades.

[a.k.a.]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by James V. Kohl:
Reports that -dienone smells like androstenone are troublesome, since -dienone has been used to alter autonomic function<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

James,
Is that “troublesome� as in “potentially dangerous�?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I just recieved the bill from the chem place.
$17.00 shipping charges. Raked up the price of my experiment a bit huh?

[Naughtymonkey]

Oscar

thanks for the info. I skimmed through my search without looking into it in any detail

Lets hope the insects don\'t fugure out what we\'re doing or boy will they be pissed! [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[Naughtymonkey]

well I did a patent search today on pheromones in general. Unsurprisingly the vast majority of patents out there are basically from the agrochemical industry, i.e. to disrupt insect mating. One particularly strange one to do with reducing stress in pigs!

When it comes to human pheromones, Erox are out there but the biggest player seems to be an outfit calling themselves Pherlin pharmaceuticals (spelling might not be quite right, I\'ll check tomorrow). Harvard uni have cloned the VNO and several people are looking into peptide mimetics for the VNO receptor. This Pherlin outfit have either granted patents or applications to reducing anxiety by stimulating VNO, also treatment of PMS is another i.e. there does seem to be alot going on that involves pheromones but not to do with attraction.

All in all surprised at how little is out there from a patents point of view. I do have a couple of the patents in pdf files if anyone can tell me how to post them here

NM

[**DONOTDELETE**]

mmm well if james is focusing on rone and nol well then that would be why the product works a fair bit better than heavy none products (the question is whether small amounts are effective or to leave it out completley.)
Usage so far has been interesting but i have noticed some interesting effects other reactions have been absent. Its more of a general area enhancement rather than a focused product. But will have to for some time yet. Im noticing some tension around the forum right now, we need those that believe in none and those that are leaving it out to agree to disagree otherwise it could get interesting. Rol and nine are interesting choices of androgens for futher testing and reserach (androsterol and androstenine)

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Chunks from the NIH journal of research.

The results suggest that the VNO can at least respond to specific compounds, a necessary first step in including a physiologic or behavioral effect. Also, the fact that the compounds did not elicit a response from the olfactory epithelium at the concentrations tested indicates they may exert an effect without eliciting a conscious awareness of any odor.

A spokesman for Erox declined to identify these compounds. But in March of last year, the company filed a patent application with the European Patent Office for rights to use specific androstenes and estrenes  steroids related to testosterone and estrogen  in perfume products. The patent application states that 1,3,5(10), 16-estratetraene-3-ol uniquely elicits a change in surface potential in the male VNO, and that the female VNO responds to D4,16-androstadien-3-one.

On this last does that mean that they reseerve to use theses specific compounds in all perfume products or just there\'s???
http://www.erox.com/SixthSense/StoryTwo.html

This is the link I retrieved this info from. Really I\'m lookng for the patent right issues.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thunder, so how has the -dienone been working for you?

I\'m thinking of ordering some -dienone myself soon. Are there any hurdles that we should know about? I remember you told them that you were doing some \"research\". Is that a requirement? I don\'t know how they verify that you\'re a bonafide researcher.

[Watcher]

That sounds like a very good idea truth i would be interested in seeing if this new type of pheromone works any differently or any better than the other types none rol nol and nine and rone. Future research needs to try new things. I wonder what james kohls view is on this new additive type.

[jvkohl]

I\'ve commented several time on -dienone, and don\'t think it\'s necessary, or even desireable if it smells like -none.

No studies have been done on -rone and hormone responses, but -ol elicits hormonal changes. Does this mean that SoE elicits hormone changes? Most likely since it contains -ol. The hormone changes can and should occur in men and in women of all ages. From what I\'ve seen, SoE is most effective on younger women, but it\'s hard to judge since the behavior of younger women is usually not as direct an approach as that of older women.
\"Reports that -dienone smells like androstenone are troublesome, since -dienone has been used to alter autonomic function.\"
Is that “troublesome� as in “potentially dangerous�?

Not dangerous, troublesome because if it smells like -none, I can\'t imagine how it could be effective--yet, still it alters autonomic function positively when used in amounts that are undetectable. The real trouble becomes trying to figure out how much of this stuff to use in experiments. Too much and you stink; too little and the effect is liable to be undetected (unless you are in a laboratory situation and able to monitor autonomic function). It was much easier to experiment with androsterone, since it is generally perceived to be pleasant. Through many experiments is was easy to figure out that 1mg/ml was the best concentration to use for positive effects on women\'s behavior.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yes, I think it\'s likely that -none has positive effects at the threshold of detection and maybe slightly below the threshold. I don\'t see why it needs to be detectable to have a positive effect.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thank you for alll your input. rickarmstrong3@attbi.com if you would like to contact me futher. For earlier posts yes it should act differently because it is a sythetic human steroid and not an animals. All the research I\'ve read said that these steroids a species specific. And James all of the research has already been done by Pherin on -dienone. Much to read out there. Positive results, yes, OD possible - highly likely. Had girls licking my neck last weedend. Also sprayed some one my groin area and had one girl in certain terms, cluth me there for a while, very erotic. Thanks, good luck to all. If you do order some for yourself good luck. It took quite a bit of thought, perseverence, and bullshit to get it without being with a university or chemical research group. Hopefully if I can pull this off, demonstate it for human perposes, not supposed to be used on humans or animals as of yet, You will have a product almost like 4.2 up for grabs on the site. 1st of it\'s kind. In process of getting funding and research reports and clearance of not infringing on other patent rights. Also working out a deal on big quantity\'s of -dienone. I know there is a lot more than theses simple things to bring a product on the market, enough disclosure at this point. So long, and thanks for the shoes. Peace.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hmm... So, Thunder you said that you didn\'t have great success with the other products on Love Scent, right? Now, a miracle with -dienone?! Makes me want to put that Realm for Women back on until I get my hands on the raw -dienone. :-).

[**DONOTDELETE**]

How long a time period are you looking at Thunder?

I really want to try some of this stuff now. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] As I\'m sure alot of other people reading this do... you could have a great product if you get it out there. [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

gents

before we take off with an overdose of exitement, may I point out that Androstadienol also requires investigation being as it is also \"present\" in human sweat. I beg to postulate that some of this may be needed in the ultimate mix. It\'s all jolly interesting stuff isn\'t it ?

I watch with interest.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yo Thunder,
You said you had GIRLS LIcking your neck?! As in plural? As in happened w/ more than one girl? and what do you mean that a girl clutched you in your groin? Did she straight up grab your groin?
Also bro, where these girls the kind of \"slutty\" girls or something? NO OFFENSE but I\'m trying to look at it from all angles. Also how old are you and what was the scene (and social atmosphere) like at those hits?
Because DAMN licking is INCREDEBLY PRIMAL. You were incredebly lucky to either have found the \"right-kind-of-girl\" or an incredebly powerful phero.
Serously I have not heard of hits like these w/ none. NONE is like kissing and grinding. Licking is a whole nother vibe.
Damn man serously get back to us on this, because I will buy some damn dienone if that is how it is.
Latz and keep bringing in results.

Oh and THUNDER how has the phero affected you? have you noticed any differences on how it makes you feel??
And have you tryed it out at work?? I think at work you would be able to see how it affects people on a different level. Also they might give you comment like \"Hey you sure look sexy today.\" or \"Are you going out afterwards or what?\" instead of just licking you LOL. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
Nah but serously. Licking is very primal, almost like oral sex primal.
Take care bro. And keep up the good work.
DS

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yeah, we want to hear more about your hits, Thunder!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Here\'s a quote from the abstract about concentrations of certain androgens in sweat:

The concentrations of five 16-androstene steroids were determined, by a GC-MS method, in freshly-produced apocrine sweat (adrenaline-induced), in 8 men and 2 women. The ranges of concentrations (nmol/microliter) in apocrine sweat were: 5 alpha-androst-16-en-3-one (5 alpha-A), 0.1-2.0 and 4,16-androstadien-3-one (androstadienone), 0-1.9, 5,16-Androstadien-3 beta-ol (androstadienol) was also found in 5 of the subjects (range
0.05-1.05). 5 alpha-Androst-16-en-3 alpha- or 3 beta-ols [3 alpha (beta)-androstenols] were only found in small amounts (&lt; 0.1 nmol/microliters) in a few subjects.

I found the -dienol on Sterloids.com as well:
http://www.steraloids.com/pages/page005.html#A0660-000

It\'s more affordably priced at $12 for 5 mgm.

-dienone can be found at:
http://www.steraloids.com/pages/page004.html#A0570-000

[Nutt]

hehe, I really want to try this stuff. anyone bruce,? thunder?) up for trying to resell this stuff raw?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Dalesalsa, yes as in more than one. I\'m 31 and it was at a dance club packed with women. I was dancing to and sweating like crazy, I thought for sure I OD\'d because I could smell it so much.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I have spoken briefly with Bruce on the subject of marketing. Might have a winnable battle that would most likely occur with Pherin, and Erox Corps. There are different maketing stratgies as well. I have written and filed a Disclosure Statement since I have publicly addressed my efforts on this forum. Just in case. With attorneys finding out exactly what patent rights these companies do and do not possess, which I am paying for myself I might add, things could take a while for a product to be availabe. Of course I could just syringe some into a visine bottle for you [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yes, some of us are eager to pilot test your brew before it hits the market. Hey, if it\'s as good as we expect it to be, the discussion on the board from multiple users will only help sales when officially it begins! Since you already established an account with Steraloids.com, maybe you can buy 50 mgm from Steraloids for $390, mix it up into 20 vials of 5 ml solution containing 2.5 mg of -dienone each, and distribute the test vials for $30-$35.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

To much liability. As of now my account does not include for human or animal use. I\'ll use it on my self but I\'m not going to be sued or break any laws by distributing it to the public,,,,so to speak,,,,sorry. I\'ll try to think of a way. From this post you have my email.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oh, your account is not for human or animal use (?). What did you say you were using it for?!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

How about selling a bottle of the stuff to someone outside the US(less of an liability issue???)???

I live in Norway BTW.

And I would probably buy straigt from the manufacturer but I want to test the stuff first.

Satan

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey THUNDER,
I know this is going to sound like a dumb question but I really need to know the details \"or particulars\" of this case to better analyse the differences between Rone and NONE and Dienone. So here\'s the question what exactly did you mean by the crotch thing? [img]images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] Did she grind her crouch agaist yours will dancing? or she grabed you there (always a plus) [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] ? Or what? I would imagine if she grinding you would be the most natural thing to do--it would go along w/ the instincts and not at all far from socially accepted behaviour (in a club scene of course).
Lay the the 411 (slang for information) for us bro.
Thanks man. Take care.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Actually grabbing. Grinding while dancing from the front and the back. Even doggy style bumping and slapping. With another her friend on my back side. It was like fighting for my attention. Really was the best time I\'ve had in years. One of the girls gave me her number when I sort of led the conversation to hit the sack, and she said \"not yet\" Damn. The girl with the number would not let me out of her site and held my hand and drug me around the bar the whole night. I had never met this girl before this night. Anyway, I called, she called back, hit and miss, hope to see her again this weekend. I planning on going to the same bar and after much calcualtion but I have a hard time measuring in .02 to .05 mg
I going to do the experiment again with what I believe to be a better ratio. I\'m sure I OD\'d last week. I cannot dance that well(at least as good as alot of others) and so I have a handycap already. Offset with my pheromone edge. I\'m trying to coral a few of my fine girlfriends(just friends or have already dated and now friends) to go with me for the extra extra edge. Girls always want what other girls have. Remember it has been said many times before on this forum that pheromones do not make girls, espescially in a crowded smoke filled bar, run up to you and beg for your affection. You\'ve got to have a little GAME!!! to get closer and let the pheromones do their work.

[Watcher]

YYYYYYEEEEEESSSSSSSS get it to us lol. We need it lol. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]