Androstadienone raw form found

[**DONOTDELETE**]

If this stuff proves effetive maybe bruce could start selling it....

25 ml spray with 20ml androstadienone sollution in it(leaving space for the customer to add his own scent)

Satan

Just got an idea.... how´bout adding some of it to SOE [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

OK, I have a few things to offer... One thing to remember is that the pg (that seems kinda funny at the moment) were applied to the subjects nose. In the world we live in we can\'t do that. Next, pheros smell strong. One spray of TE makes my bathroom reek. Do you have NPA or some of the raw stuff from a chem kit to compare it to? The comparison is tough too. You have to light a match and turn on a fan for a while to clear the room of the previous smell, and also breathe some air that is not scented/phero\'d to get your nose back to zero.

I just bring this up because the conc that people use around here varies quite a bit. And man, the raw stuff has some kick to the smell. Oh yeah, look at what the conc of the \"secret ingredients\" in other products are. I don\'t thing that pico grams are what we are looking at. 20 - 80 ug\'s (or 0.02 - 0.08 mg) sounds like a full dose of pheros around here.

Well, here is what I would try if I had the stuff.

300 ug of nol
100 ug rone
50 ug none
50 ug dienone

That should equal 500 ug, and if you have the conc at 1mg / mL that equals 0.5 mL

I like to add the citrus oil +nol for fun (one drop per mL of soln)
2 drops of vanilla (Yeeah I know, but it is fun to add)

I always make 5 mL\'s of mix and give it a college try. Well, I make 5 mL\'s total of EtOH, then add the drops of aroma or vanilla. Since I use the chem kits, which are 1 mg / mL the volume is equal to the grams (I.E. one ug per uL) This gives me something very comparable to the concentrations in JB1.

If you have accurate measuring devices (Pipets or pipetman\'s) this is easy, if not, hope the syringes work. Last note, I always use pheros with scents, and the smell of the pheros is well, not the easist to describe, but it compliments the citrus scent by adding an edge (no I didn\'t plan that pun.) [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ February 23, 2002: Message edited by: Walter Mitty ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'d begin with trying the stuff by itself, not mixing with other pheros as it would only make it difficult to isolate the effect of dienone.

One way would be to take a small part of the solution, which when fully applied would likely lead to a clear overdose. Then dilute this part further so it can be applied in increasing amounts with a dropper of known volume.

Then take a good shower to get rid of other pheros, put on fresh clothes (and non-contaminated wrist watch, etc.), and go to some good testing grounds. This might be any place where you can sit close to different targets who are experiencing similar contexts for a period of at least a few minutes and discreetely study their reactions. Look for changes in their eyes or perhaps even more obvious behavior. A commuter train during times of moderate traffic load could be a good choice for this purpose. Nothing much else happens that affects people on it, and you get a chance to select suitable seats, leading to similar distances to the targets.

First do a baseline without any application. Then get of and apply one dropp or what ever step you select to about the same place each time, preferably an area of your skin that isn\'t covered in any way. Get on the train again and repeat this several times going back and forth on the same line, taking notes of relevant factors and results at the stops. During a first try only qualitative data might be found, although this might provide clues for choice of quantitative variables for further testing. Eventually obvious overdose levels could be reached, which would end the experiment.

Any reaction will of course depend on a number of factors such as menstrual cycle, distance, age, attraction, and what have you. Therefore a couple of \"measurements\" for each increment, or alternatively quite small increments, might be a good idea.

If there is a serious stink you might want to apply a little bit of cologne before the experiment. Hopefully it shouldn\'t take more than 2-3 hours so the cologne should provide cover for that amount of time. At five minutes per measurement this would yield 24-36 \"datapoints\".

Well, thats my idea. What ever you decide to try I\'m sure we will all be interested to hear about it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I definitely agree that you should test -dienone by itself first.

However, I don\'t think it\'s worthwhile for you take detail notes of reactions from your personal experience (n of 1). Just post your results, and give us an overall opinion. Eventually, a lot more of us need to try -dienone before we can make a final judgement.

Hmm... That 5 mg of -dienone would be good for 250 - 0.02 mg doses. I guess that\'s not quite enough to split up and send a few of us some test samples for $10 each. =P.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Im sure others will start trying it so the results will take a while id be interested to try and get ahold of some androsterol (ROL) androstenine (Nine) are these actual compounds or is my science brain gone again.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Welp, Making a .02 mg solution would require 250 ml of Ethonol. Seems like pretty watered down. I used last night. by itself .34 mg per ml sol. I did not however measure how much I put on as I used an atomizer. About a spray and a half on clothing and skin. 18 hours later clothing stills smells strong. I will used a measured amount tonight. One thing that is kinda cool ( i guess ) is that I have larangitis and I have to get really close to girls to talk to them. Therefore invading personal space with good cause. I thought I O.D.\'d last night because I reeked with a strong none smell. I was self consious and figured I smelled pretty bad. I tried to cover some of it up with Curve but the Androstadienone was just over powering. Funny things. Good results. Many good vibes and looks from someone I hope to see again tonight, lots of hugs and kisses from all my friends girlfriends. One of my good friends girlfriend at the end of the night for my goodnight kiss witch is usually a peck was open mouthed and wet. I was like damn(to my self). I would not do that to my friend but damn she is fine. Thanks for the math Walter. I\'ll try comboes later. Need data on this alone first. Hard not to cover with a bit of cologne though because it is so strong. Excuse my unscientific talk now, but this is why we are all here anyway and we know it, One night after I already get laid I will go out with just dienone because I already won\'t care if get any or not. All ready satisfied. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

0.02 mg is quantity, not a concetration. If you mix it to the concentration of NPA (0.5 mg/ml), then you would apply 0.04 ml to obtain 0.02 mg pheromone. In any case, you wouldn\'t dilute 5 mg of phero with 250 ml of ethanol unless you want to apply 1 ml of the mix at a time, which is too much even for a spray.

[oscar]

Thunder,

I\'m curious why you added that particular quantity of alcohol (14.5ml). Did it take that much to dissolve the crystals fully?

Seems to me that a .34mg/ml concentration is either a way (@3X) too strong spray, or a marginally weak additive.
If your planning on diluting it further, just dilute some of it. Say, 1ml of the motherload added to 2ml of alcohol to yield a .0113% spray-friendly level.
If you want to add some of it to a cologne at any point down the road, you\'ll end up with an alcohol OD if you\'ve cut it any deeper than .034%.

Oscar [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yes it took that much to dissolve the cyrstals and I believe it still needs a bit more.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Oscar, depending on the amount sprayed from my atomizer with is not from love scent then this would be a good level. Kinda hard to measure, I do not have the right instruments. Thankyou everyone for your advice. How the hell do I get this damn Newbie thing off of my name. This may seemed far fetched but I have been doing all of the work with your mathematical help(which I\'m not that good at but could certainly use some lessons.) Does anybody think it would be far fetched to apply for a grant to actually study the effects of this product with controlled groups. Can any one give me help on what type of grant and where to obtain one. Here\'s a real shocker. I\'m a Network Engineer, Systems designer, computer jockey. I was laid off and have to much time on my hands. While I should be studying Cisco text books. I\'ve been entrenched with this for a 3 weeks now. Once I get an idea I can\'t stop thinking about it until I have conclusions on whether it would be lucrative for me socially and espescially financialy. If anybody thinks I have a game plan or has one of there own I guess they could see where I\'m going with this and steal my idea since I\'m stupid, or trusting enough to plant it all over this site. I do appreciate everyones help and since science and chemistry have always fasinated me,but not math, I see potential here. Any comments? Am I just another dumbass. I know one dumbass who sold California the patent rights to those lilttle yellow lane bumps on the highway. Needless to say. There are alot of bumps there. I call it the brail system. You\'re to drunk to drive so you use the brail systems to stay in the lane.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thunder, while I am not all the good at getting funding, with the background you have, at least you can use the exp\'s for publishing, on your own or with in journals (another nice run-on.) About stealing things, as far as I know, you are the only one with intuitive, and balls for that matter, to go after the -dienone.

Now on to the solubility of the -dienone. I find it hard to believe that it would take so much alcohol. I have found in my own lab experiences that it is a kinetic thing. Quite honestly it just takes time (try making a 50% sugar soln sometime, Arrrrrrgh!!) My guess is with a little heat (warm water bath from the sink) and it would go into the alcohol. Or, you could probably check and see if they sent an MSDS with the shipment, it should have the physical properties (ie solubility) of it, if they are known. Or they might give the CAS # which you can use in chem search engines for info. Keep up the good work and let us know what happens.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Another very succesfull night. To tired now to explain much but. Went to a dance club and the response was almost overwhelming. The only thing holding me back was that I just met another girl at one of my local hangouts(never scene her before) attractive. Lots of bumping and grinding on the floor and off. She loved kissing my neck. No intercourse. She asked for my number so we will see if the thought conscioustly or unconsciously stays with her. Damn good results condsidering I\'ve kinda been looking for about 3.5 months now and bam. two days into experiment. Not counting my chickens yet but seems very positive.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thunder,

Just curious, what other pheromones have you used in the past? Can you compare the androstadienone to them in terms of effectiveness? [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[Naughtymonkey]

A word of caution.

If any of you are having any ideas that you might want to file a patent application on, disclosure in this forum will destroy your patent rights outside of the US. The rest of the world follow the European system of first to file, unlike the US where it is first to invent.

NM

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yes, I don\'t think people talking on this forum are looking to patent or make money off of any their ideas. It\'s a place to share freely. However, I don\'t think there\'s any money to be made on -dienone no matter how potent we, the forum members, find it to be. Realm has it all patented. In fact, if -dienone becomes the new rage, I\'m sure Realm will try to crack down on us. I\'d be happy with just experimenting with -dienone and hopefully benefit from it in my personal life.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Realm does not have a patent on the steroid itself. Only there own creation of perfume with the steroid.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

yo Thunder,
Can you say more on how the phero affected them physiologically or biologically. I know it could be hard but maybe to try and compare it to none, nol, rone. also like look ro things like increased breathing, flushing of the skin, mostly as soon as you enter the room (those would be the most genuine reactions becasue they still don\'t know you and therefore they would be acting upon just what they are feeling \"and seeing maybe\" and not on your personality, yet).

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yes, Realm\'s patent doesn\'t prevent us from buying the -dienone from Steraloids and making our own mix with it. However, making a phero product with -dienone and selling it as such could infringe. A concentrate (0.5 mg/ml) may fall outside of the patent. I don\'t know if you can draw a new patent for the concentrate with -dienone, since it may not seem innovate enough.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Research on the VNO by Jennings-White also examined what responses pheromone-like substances produced in the VNO. According to his research, the most active pheromone-like chemicals for humans are estratetraenol and androstandienone. In his research, he also examined the effectiveness of commercial perfumes that contain pheromone-like substances by using scientific measuring methods. In addition, he found that these pheromone-like chemicals are gender-specific, i.e., females are sensitive to androstandienone, and males are sensitive to estratetraenol. Furthermore, he says that these substances are also species-specific, so androstenone, the pig pheromone, does not give remarkable activity for humans (http://www.erox.com/Sixth<http://www.../StoryOne.html).


This is what James V Kohl had to say.

But Erox does have some credibility in the eyes of James Kohl, medical technologist and co-author of The Scent of Eros: Mysteries of Odor in Human Sexuality. \"I\'m convinced Erox has the only real synthetic human pheromone,\" but, he adds, \"most other scientists are skeptical because it\'s in a product sold by Erox.\"

Kohl however, like others in the fragrance industry, questions Erox\'s claim that the synthetic pheromones in Realm make the person feel more calm and self-confident. \"If anything, it\'s a placebo effect,\" he says.

Kohl, I\'ve just been reading all day. I\'m definately not trying to start an argument as you are extrememly more qualified as a scientist,researcher, and veteran in the industry. The last statement. it\'s a placebo effect seems to go against the conditioned response argument you pose. Maybe I\'m reading out of context. Also what is your theme of Species Specific.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Were those statements taken for James Kohl\'s book?

[travis]

The two pharagrap seems to be contradicting something is wrong with these two.


\"But Erox does have some credibility in the eyes of James Kohl, medical technologist and co-author of The Scent of Eros: Mysteries of Odor in Human Sexuality. \"I\'m convinced Erox has the only real synthetic human pheromone,\" but, he adds, \"most other scientists are skeptical because it\'s in a product sold by Erox.\"

Kohl however, like others in the fragrance industry, questions Erox\'s claim that the synthetic pheromones in Realm make the person feel more calm and self-confident. \"If anything, it\'s a placebo effect,\" he says.\"


Travis

[jvkohl]

It\'s the _context_ that\'s missing from the quotes, as well as the date of the article. I vaguely recall mentioning to some journalist at some point in time that I thought Erox had the real thing, but always comment that human pheromones will NOT act as aphrodisiacs--thus the placebo effect, so far as being a sex attractant. Things have changed with findings that human pheromones alter hormone levels in other humans. Still, human pheromones do not act as aphrodisiacs; the VNO is not necessarily involved; \"feelings\" are very subjective et. al. Like I said, context is important. It\'s not good to pull a couple statements from an article and try to make a point.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

James are we dealing with Pig Pheromones or synthetic human ones.\"Things have changed with findings that human pheromones alter hormone levels in other humans. You wrote this in your last post.\" I guess what I\'m asking is if we are using pig pheromones are they going to alter the hormone levels in people. As posted in one of my reply\'s Pheromones are reported to be species specific.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thanks, for the info Monkey. You could just email me them.

[Irish]

Pigs and humans have at least one phero in common: -none. -None is sold in aerosol form to hog-breeders to aid in artificial insemination. They spray the stuff at the female to induce her to \'assume the position\' and receive the insemination. This can also be induced by bringing a boar nearby, but an aerosol can is easier to manage than a live boar! I don\'t know if pigs and humans have other phero\'s in common.

At least one of the experiments you read about on phero-sales sites (the one where the theater seats were sprayed with pheros and women preferred them) used the commercial pig sex attractant \'Boarmate\', which contains -none. -None is -none, whether your using it on sows or human females.

I\'d be interested if there are other human pheros in common with pigs...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Irish androsteRONE is human only as i have read the scientific liturere and so is androsteNOL so it seems that none is the only one in common although there are various forms that come under the sciecetific banner name \"None\" and nodays most of them use one version that is specific to humans and not the pig version.
The none nol and rone are simplications of a very complex science better ask james more on this one. At least SOE can be the only real product to say for certain they dont use pig none because it has zero amounts. Because it only contains androsterone and androstenol. If youre worried about that then buy that product. Also something like NPA and the edge have non androgens ingredients which are secret but enhance the product a great deal.

[oscar]

naughtymonkey,

I think that if you check out a Pherin patent and an Erox patent, the principals will be the same. They are, I believe, sister corporations, Erox dealing with Realm and the fragrance and attractant end, and Pherin handling the more medicinal applications of pheromones. I\'ll bet you\'ll see Berliner\'s name on both.

Oscar [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

So, where can we get this BoarMate product? =).

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Funny!
http://www.antecint.com/main/boarmate.htm

[travis]

The scent of Androstadienone is very close to EDGE.

Travis