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  1. #1
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    Default USA Elections Whole New Ballgame

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    with

    Ralph Nader deciding to run. He can only help McCain and hurt the Dem nominee. Ron Paul won't run outside the

    Republican party so he chances now are about zero. Looks like more of the same for the next 4-8 years, what a

    shame.
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  2. #2
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Yes it is KK, and a lot has

    developed other than Nader.

    I fully expected to have a clear Dem nominee by now. For the first time in decades

    their race is actually exciting. They're essentially the same candidate, but with opposite

    approaches/personalities. Of course if either were elected the result would be the same. I think Mar.4 will be the

    day of reckoning (Tex/OH). They are very different but equally important States.

    Agree that Nader would pull

    from any Dem candidate, but I'm not sure that he'll be on the ballot. The Dems are fighting him with all they

    have.

    I've been thinking about Bel's comments about our choices, and your theory of a "dynasty". I don't know

    what we can realistically expect from our current electoral system. The rules almost automatically disqualify third

    parties, and even if someone like Nader or Perot or even Paul were to become viable, the established majority within

    the system just will not allow their entrenched position to be compromised. Its almost more bureaucratic than

    political. I don't see it as a conspiracy so much as a creeping decline in America's spirit of individualism, in

    the largest sense of the word.

    Today's individualism is self centered and narcissistic. Instead of demanding

    opportunity, and freedom from intervention, we demand entitlements. "I want to be free" has been replaced with "I

    want" because "I deserve".

    To the extent that any gov't is involved in your life the less free you are. The

    whole purpose of our form of Gov't is to deny or restrict restraints on freedom. The creeping socialism resulting

    from an uninformed and selfish electorate is the conspiracy not of tyrants, but of a deteriorating ideal.

  3. #3
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    The whole damned reason the USA was

    founded on, was freedom of Religious worship, as one's choice, and freedom from an oppressive government. A

    government for the people, of the people, and by the people. Anyone who thinks that is still the case, is

    crazy.

  4. #4
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Tounge and Idesign, you both

    have it right. We lose another freedom every day and nobody seems to care about it any more, so long as they have

    their toys and their rights to do whatever they want without consequences. What they don't get is that over time we

    are becoming more and more what we claim to hate, an oppressive and overbearing government raping the working people

    of the fruits of their labor to give it to others. Eventually, our lifestyle will suffer because we will become less

    productive and less able to care for ourselves. We already are moving that direction and instead of trying to

    improve matters we lower the bar on expectations so it looks like we are improving.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  5. #5
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    Default laughing here...

    you'll never

    hear the President of the United States say:

    "We're going to war with the evil country of xxxxxx and we'll

    split the loot with all you good people who are so supportive of us"


    what they do say is:

    "We're

    going to war and sacrifices will have to be made by you people who voted for me in the first place on my platform of

    limited government, lower taxes, and no nation building", while secretly gloating about all the money they will make

    for themselves and close associates.

    I agree with all 3 of you. There's some hope I think as the WWII,

    "greatest generation" folks are dying off or getting too old to go out and vote.
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  6. #6
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth View Post
    instead

    of trying to improve matters we lower the bar on expectations so it looks like we are improving.
    How can

    I possibly express my agreement with this remark?

  7. #7
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    If you were in public schools

    recently you will probably use small words.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  8. #8
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    dude srsly wat make u tink

    dat?

  9. #9
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    Default laughing here....

    that was good.

    I remember when my son was about to graduate high school, he had to write a composition for English class and he

    used a word processor with a decent thesaurus system, he asked me to read it for my opinion. I knew things were bad

    at his school (50% dropout rate) but I didn't know it was that bad. Fortunately, he went in the Army then got out

    and went to college and went back in the Army as a Lt (being in the military usually means doing a lot of reading

    due to boredom).

    Back to politics. Here's a great Ron Paul video that would have served RP's interest

    much better than the crap ads they put out:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pMYlyxI_44

    So,

    what do we have now?

    Obama
    Clinton
    McCain
    Huckabee
    Paul
    Nader

    That's my ranking of

    the likely winner, certainly not my choice though.
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  10. #10
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    I know that we disagree on this

    KK - which is really more fun - but here's my list of likely winners.

    Switch 1 and 2 to 2 and 3 and move 3 to 1.

    The rest don't matter.

    As of today, I really do think that Clinton is out, and think that Obama will not be

    able to stand up to scrutiny in a campaign where he has to talk about and defend actual policy. With all his

    shortcomings, McCain is serious and experienced. Obama, when the day comes when he actually has to say something

    substantial, will become less popular.

  11. #11
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    As a professional politician,

    Obama is gifted but still kind of young. He will have to grow up fast against McCain for exactly the reason you

    state.

    I expect McCain to kick his butt a little at first, in terms of confidence about military issues,

    especially. Obama has yet to fully demonstrate what he is made of. It should be interesting just on human level just

    to see how he handles it. In some ways, McCain is the perfect foil for Obama, as well as the toughest. Dude has been

    around the block. If McCain kicks his ass thoroughly, Obama doesn't deserve to be president.

    Obama is

    currently more popular than McCain, but that and a cup of coffee gets you, um ... Well, you know what I mean.



    It's like in the NBA where you have to go through the Spurs in the playoffs to demonstrate you're somebody.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  12. #12
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idesign View Post
    How can

    I possibly express my agreement with this remark?
    Having taught countless supposed high school graduates

    who couldn't read and write adequately, I can only say Amen.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  13. #13
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    As a

    professional politician, Obama is gifted but still kind of young. He will have to grow up fast against McCain for

    exactly the reason you state.

    I expect McCain to kick his butt a little at first, in terms of confidence about

    military issues, especially. Obama has yet to fully demonstrate what he is made of. It should be interesting just on

    human level just to see how he handles it. In some ways, McCain is the perfect foil for Obama, as well as the

    toughest. Dude has been around the block. If McCain kicks his ass thoroughly, Obama doesn't deserve to be

    president.

    Obama is currently more popular than McCain, but that and a cup of coffee gets you, um ... Well, you

    know what I mean.

    It's like in the NBA where you have to go through the Spurs in the playoffs to demonstrate

    you're somebody.
    Wow Doc, very astute analysis, but somehow I'm not surprised. Welcome to the

    fray.

    Have to agree completely with your assessment of the dynamics in a potential race between Obama and McCain.

    Political campaigns are not evangelical camp meetings, and you have to step up to a pretty high standard of

    knowledge, experience and ability to be taken seriously. If Obama stops singing Kum-ba-ya to the faithful and

    engages serious ideas he will have a chance. Somehow I don't think he's grown up enough, as you

    alluded.

    They're already starting to spar, leaving Hillary behind, and Obama is showing his talent of

    resiliency, but not too much in the way of substance.

    This will be a very interesting race to watch.

  14. #14
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    Default latest poll

    numbers for Texas

    courtesy of Zogby:

    McCain: 53%
    Huckabee: 27%
    Paul: 11%
    ____

    Obama: 48%
    Clinton: 42%
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  15. #15
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    Default so,

    if you disregard party,

    IDesign is right on the money with his predictions, I'm off a bit by predicting Obama the winner.
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  16. #16
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolking1 View Post
    if you

    disregard party, IDesign is right on the money with his predictions, I'm off a bit by predicting Obama the

    winner.

    Then again, the fat lady is still in the green room. This race is too interesting, and

    watching it with you guys is fun.

    What I wish for:

    Candidates on BOTH sides who have:

    - the inspiration of

    Obama
    - the experience of McCain
    - the tenacity of Clinton
    - the revolutionary spirit of Paul
    - the management

    style of Romney
    - none of Nader's qualities, well, maybe focus or something :P

    As for politics... Buckley of

    course.

  17. #17
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Hey all of you

    out there in Ohio and Texas!

    Make sure you get to the polls and cast a vote for Hillary!

  18. #18
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    Default none

    so far, Hillary is getting

    the Hispanic vote in Texas while Obama is getting the majority of the Black vote.
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  19. #19
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Will that have a canceling

    effect? If so, that would leave it to the whites. Obama (amazingly) gets educated, Hillary gets less educated.

    Should be an interesting night.

  20. #20
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Well now, interesting day

    yesterday. Looks like Obama's balloon has been deflated. His star rose so quickly he was bound for a fall.

    What'll be interesting is how he handles himself now that he has to work for a living. Hillary will surely go for

    the jugular, and Obama has to think about what kind of candidate he's going to become now that the free ride is

    over.

    On the Rep. side... yaawwwwnnnn. The only interest now is who McCain will choose for a running mate. Any

    speculation?

  21. #21
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Hillary's net delegate gain

    from all of yesterday will probably be around 4 delegates, according to one analyst. That is far fewer than the

    delegate margin Obama won from DC alone. So she did what she needed to do, but not enough to dislodge Obama as front

    runner, in terms of votes and committed delegates. Mainly what she did was establish that this race will probably go

    the distance. Hillary is all about the superdelegates (a strange concept).

    What is really going to be a bit of

    surreal melodrama is to watch the superdelegates whimsically decide who the nominee will be at the convention. Every

    superdelegate will be analyzed to death. Many of them are Clinton cronies, of course.

    Nonetheless, all this is

    good for McCain, who has somewhat of a luxury to back off from attacking Obama and let Hillary do it. He can try to

    be classy and take a bit of a high road. Hillary seems to have more of a stomach for attacking than McCain does,

    anyway.

    Just as Rush Limbaugh asked all his listeners to go vote for Hillary, I think it benefits the

    Republicans to see a prolonged battle on the Dem side.

    McCain can almost shoot to the tropics for a vacation at

    this point.

    The thing that "messed with my head" was Hillary publically acknowledging a Clinton/Obama ticket as

    a possibility. What's up with that? Just struck me as strange, especially now. I wonder what Barack thinks of that

    prospect. I'm betting he'd prefer Edwards. something about Vice President Hillary strikes me as spooky -- too much

    like First Lady Hillary. Then you'd also have Bill Clinton participating in an Obama White House, if they won.



    McCain's choice of running mate will say a lot about whether he wants to be perceived as a staunch conservative

    or a moderate. It's too early for me to hazard a guess, but lately he has certainly been more concerned with

    building credibility among the further right. That is why the Bush endorsement seems to have been welcomed.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 03-05-2008 at 05:51 PM.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  22. #22
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Agree Doc, the Dem race is far

    from over and is completely unpredictable at this point. Today's front runner is tomorrow's also-ran.

    The

    importance of Tex/Ohio is not only that Obama's mojo is hobbled, but that Hillary won in the Bible Belt and the

    Rust Belt. She's won the big States, which have a greater cross-section of the electorate.

    Super delegates are

    strange indeed, and I think were created to keep the party from running away from itself, say with a fringe

    candidate. The result is that the Democrat establishment has a lot of power in choosing the candidate, esp in a

    situation like we have now. I think if the race continues to be as close as its been, the Supers will be in play

    big time. They'll have to put their collective finger in the air and decide who's best to run against

    McCain.

    Its definitely strange about the Clinton/Obama ticket thing. It must be either a lapse in judgement or

    some kind of balloon floated out there for reaction.

    One downside for McCain is that the Dem race will get all

    the media coverage. McCain needs to find a way to keep himself on TV.

    McCain's running mate will indeed

    determine how he intends to approach this race. I posted a while back that he could choose Lieberman. A lot of

    conservatives like him, and talk about a "bridge" ticket! One wonders if Huckabee hung on as long as he did for a

    VP nod.

  23. #23
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Lieberman would be

    interesting. A lot of people have talked about it. Dems tend to hate him for being a "turncoat", of course. It just

    seems McCain would more likely choose someone further toward the right. But that's just based on recent trends from

    him. How do you think Huckabee and he would get along?

    Here's a thoroughly strange idea, just for fun:

    Obama/Powell!

    Powell has hinted at a possible party change anyway, or at least at considering it. That would

    boost his military/defense/foreign policy/experience cred in an instant, be consistent with his "reach across the

    aisle" thing; and provide the poetry of an all AA ticket.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  24. #24
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    VPs are votes!

    Rounding out the ticket like a well constructed perfume.

    Obama/Powell is brilliant, too brilliant for TV, much

    like McCain/Lieberman. We could be wrong though. This race is unique in recent history.

    One wonders... the

    Clinton/Obama ticket, or vice-versa, could be a strategy floated to achieve much the same as you suggested in your

    AA idea. First black and first woman. Might be irresistable.

    McCain has a lot to overcome, both in conservative

    circles and in broad popularity. His choice will be interesting. He doesn't have to get along with Huckabee, look

    at Clinton/Gore, they never liked each other.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    Lieberman would be interesting. A lot of people have talked about it. Dems tend to hate

    him for being a "turncoat", of course. It just seems McCain would more likely choose someone further toward the

    right. But that's just based on recent trends from him. How do you think Huckabee and he would get along?



    Here's a thoroughly strange idea, just for fun: Obama/Powell!

    Powell has hinted at a possible party

    change anyway, or at least at considering it. That would boost his military/defense/foreign policy/experience cred

    in an instant, be consistent with his "reach across the aisle" thing; and provide the poetry of an all AA

    ticket.
    I'll take your Obama/Powell idea and go one step further...Hillary/Rice

  26. #26
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Now we are officially getting

    silly. How about McCain and Nancy Reagan, or Barbara Bush? Hillary has shown that former first ladies belong in the

    White House, after all.

    Hillary/Obama and McCain could become running mates, ensuring that both of them make

    the White House no matter how we vote, calling attention to the absurdity of our political system.

    Anyone, feel

    free to rescue the thread from our tomfoolery.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

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    I like your McCain/much older

    former first lady idea...it would make him look younger! As it is he appears ancient.

    Is there any rule

    saying that McCain couldn't pick the current Bush as his running mate? I should know this, but I don't.



    I'm trying to think of something even sillier, but it can't be done. Unless...McCain picked Bush Sr., then

    McCain wins and dies a day into office, and Bush Sr. picks Bush Jr. as his VP at that point.

  28. #28
    Moderator Mtnjim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbnbtc View Post
    Is there any

    rule saying that McCain couldn't pick the current Bush as his running mate? I should know this, but I don't.



    I'm trying to think of something even sillier, but it can't be done. Unless...McCain picked Bush Sr., then

    McCain wins and dies a day into office, and Bush Sr. picks Bush Jr. as his VP at that point.
    I'm not

    going to be able to sleep tonight----THANKS!!
    Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite.
    --Lazarus Long

  29. #29
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    Default none

    how's about Hillary

    picking Jeb Bush as her running mate, "to mend the fences" so to speak. Ron Paul has seemingly thrown in the towel,

    just doesn't come right out and say it which is strange to me, oh well.

    I think it's almost a given that

    McCain will pick Lieberman as VP.

    But, for the entrepeneur here's an idea. Set up one of those plate

    printing factories that depict the Royal Family.
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by koolking1 View Post

    I

    think it's almost a given that McCain will pick Lieberman as VP.



    I don't understand why

    this thought has legs. It is not going to happen. If McCain did that, he would no chance of getting Conservative

    republican votes. He needs a good number of those to have any chance of winning.
    Last edited by Mtnjim; 03-07-2008 at 02:19 PM. Reason: Fix the quote code

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