Whoa! Stock market totally tanked,
eh?
Whoa! Stock market totally tanked,
eh?
To enjoy good health, to bring true happiness to one's family, to bring peace to all, one must first discipline and control one's own mind. If a man can control his mind he can find the way to Enlightenment, and all wisdom and virtue will naturally come to him.
- Buddha
Yoga in Eugene
Fair Trade crafts from Peru
Wow, check this
out
http://www.truthout.org/092908B
I didn't read the whole thing, just the point about the 612
billion.
To enjoy good health, to bring true happiness to one's family, to bring peace to all, one must first discipline and control one's own mind. If a man can control his mind he can find the way to Enlightenment, and all wisdom and virtue will naturally come to him.
- Buddha
Yoga in Eugene
Fair Trade crafts from Peru
with the people making it clear that we don't wan't to bailout Wall Street bankers it will eventually make the
politicians realize that there's no alternative but to cut spending which will eventually stop the wars.
There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!
Nice thought but I wouldn't bet on it. They are already talking about a new bailout package. Notice
though that Wall Street took a serious dive then recovered somewhat. The markets worldwide may take a pounding
without the bailout but, just like in all the other crashes, the country is still sound. There's a concept that
people seem to miss: Money does not evaporate nor does it appear out of thin air. The money is still here and it
hasn't really changed in any way other than who is holding it. There will be changes and possibly some more
failures but in the long term the national economy will recover after some changes. Bailing out the feeble or poorly
managed will not improve the quality of the businesses in the long term. Think of Darwinian selection as applied to
financial institutions.
Last edited by belgareth; 09-30-2008 at 06:31 AM.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
If by "money" you mean wealth, it
seems to have been increasingly falling into the hands of the few privileged. Have a look
at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_inequality
for the basic concept. Related links show graphs
of increasing disparity in the US. Let's hope this is a correction rather than a Darwinian selection of the
shrewdest business folks
To enjoy good health, to bring true happiness to one's family, to bring peace to all, one must first discipline and control one's own mind. If a man can control his mind he can find the way to Enlightenment, and all wisdom and virtue will naturally come to him.
- Buddha
Yoga in Eugene
Fair Trade crafts from Peru
Correction is a funny term and
can have a lot of meanings. Redistribution might be the actual concept involved here but I don't think that's the
solution to the problem either. To be honest, I don't know what the solution to too much money in too few hands is.
Government forced redistribution is not the answer and will only make matters far worse and hasten the eventual
collapse of our society.
Money is really no more than a concept, a tool for keeping track, like poker chips.
Same with wealth and both only have value due to a belief that they have value. Were the population to stop
believing in the wealth and start trading in clamshells it would completely crash the markets. That's why consumer
confidence reports weigh so heavily on the market. It is also what caused the stock market crashes in the past and
the great depression. It's a chain reaction. Market reports are bad scaring people who in turn stop buying things
and start hording money in their mattresses. Since people aren't buying things factory orders go down causing
layoffs which frightens more people.
That's a simplification but is more or less what really happens. The Dow
Jones Average or S&P or any others are only well known stock reports that are used to provide something for the
public to read about in the newspaper. It gives something to the people for them to believe in, no more. The fact is
that we still pump oil out of the ground and still make all sorts of products. It's just that nobody is buying
because they are afraid they won't have any more money. Since millions of people all do that at once due to what
they read and see, it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy.
That's where leadership comes in. If we had leaders
we belived in, that we really believed were working in our interests to stabilize things the people would relax a
little and buy more things. The trend would reverse. That's why the jobs program at the end of the great depression
worked. People believed. $700 billion dollars put towards creating jobs and markets would do a world of good for our
economy but not in the form of bailing out bankers who screwed up.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
Agree with Jim about WWII, but I
think Bel's basic premise is correct.
I too wonder about wealth "disparity", but then think of the absolute
affluence of our society. If you think of it in goods and services there really aren't too many Americans
suffering at below standard levels.
Of course we have a habit of *wanting* more.
http://www.dailypaul.com/
scroll down a bit and watch the video. "Americans prefer freedom over
bread"
There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!
Ummm... Not really but it did help. The
nation was already recovering and in large part that was due to the mental state of the citizens. They had hope and
the jobs created by world war II only made things better, possibly too fast. You can argue that without the war the
economy would have continued to stagnate but I believe the war only brought about a faster recovery that later led
to additional problems after the war. I think the economy would have taken longer to recover but would have been
stronger for it. It was the psycological condition that improved the economy, not the war. What would have happened
had we not lost so many people in the war, if they had come back looking for work with all the industries still on a
wartime
footing?
http://www.todaysteacher.com/TheGrea...efOverview.htm
Roosevelt's program was called the "New Deal." The words "New Deal" signified a new relationship between
the American people and their government. This new relationship included the creation of several new federal
agencies, called "alphabet agencies" because of their use of acronyms. A few of the more significant of these New
Deal programs was the CCC (Civilian Conservation Corps) which gave jobs to unemployed youths and to improve the
environment, the WPA (Works Progress Administration) gave jobs to thousands of unemployed in everything from
construction to the arts, and the NRA (National Recovery Administration) drew up regulations and codes to help
revitalize industry. Later on came the creation of the Social Security System, unemployment insurance and more
agencies and programs designed to help Americans during times of economic hardship. Under President Roosevelt the
federal government took on many new responsibilities for the welfare of the people. The new relationship forged in
the New Deal was one of closeness between the government and the people: a closeness which had never existed to such
a degree before.
Last edited by belgareth; 09-30-2008 at 12:27 PM.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
Yeah, smart guy. I watched his
"take on the bailout vote". Every day I realize how little I know about the way the government is run and the
meaning of these recent events
To enjoy good health, to bring true happiness to one's family, to bring peace to all, one must first discipline and control one's own mind. If a man can control his mind he can find the way to Enlightenment, and all wisdom and virtue will naturally come to him.
- Buddha
Yoga in Eugene
Fair Trade crafts from Peru
I see that after the huge wall
street sell off yesterday there has been a huge buy back today. It will probably fluctuate for a week or so, maybe
longer depending on the government's antics, then settle down but a couple hundred points lower. Analysts have been
predicting a downward correction anyway.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
Amen
Bro, and I wonder how many of our elected "leaders" have a even a clue about the full dynamics of this. My guess is
very few if any.
Once you think you have a handle on some part of this thing, you read something else and have to
re-think it all over again.
As an adjunct thought, we here in this discussion have a big problem with the
political philosophy behind a gov't bailout. I wonder how many of the "American People" understand this, or are
just knee-jerking against "rich people". Or both.
There are a lot of jerks with
knees here but an awful lot of them are jerking in the wrong direction or just don't understand, IMO
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
At the time of this writing,
the U.S. House and Senate are poised to
pass a $700 billion bailout to Wall Street. At the behest of
President
George W. Bush, the U.S. taxpayers are going to be on the hook for what
can only be referred to as the
biggest fraud in U.S. history.
Virtually our entire financial system is based on an illusion. We spend
more than
we earn, we consume more than we produce, we borrow more than
we save, and we cling to the fantasy that this can go
on forever. The
glue that holds this crumbling scheme together is a fiat currency known
as the Federal Reserve
Note, which was created out of thin air by an
international banking cartel called the Federal Reserve.
According
to Congressman Ron Paul, in the last three years, the Federal
Reserve has created over $4 trillion in new money.
The result of all
this "money-out-of-thin-air" fraud is never-ending inflation. And the
more prices rise, the more
the dollar collapses. Folks, this is not
sustainable.
Already, Bear Stearns was awarded a $29 billion bailout,
followed
quickly by the bailout of Freddie and Fannie that will cost the
taxpayers up to $200 billion. Then the
Fed announced the bailout of AIG
to the tune of $85 billion. Mind you, AIG is an enormous global entity
with
assets totaling more than $1.1 trillion. Moreover, the Feds agreed
to pump $180 billion into global money markets.
And the Treasury
Department promised $50 billion to insure the holdings of money market
mutual funds for a year.
Now, taxpayers are being asked to provide $700
billion to Wall Street. (I hope readers are aware that, not only
will
American banks be bailed out, but foreign banks will also be bailed out.
Then again, at least half of the
Federal Reserve is comprised of foreign
banks, anyway.) In other words, the Federal Reserve is preparing to
spend
upwards of $1 trillion or more. Remember again, this is fiat
money, meaning it is money printed out of thin
air.
All of this began when the U.S. Congress abrogated its responsibility to
maintain sound money principles on
behalf of the American people (as
required by the Constitution) and created the Federal Reserve. This took
place
in 1913. The President was Woodrow Wilson. (I strongly encourage
readers to buy G. Edward Griffin's book, The
Creature from Jekyll
Island.) Since then, the U.S. economy has suffered through one Great
Depression and several
recessions--all of which have been orchestrated
by this international banking cartel. Now, we are facing total
economic
collapse.
But don't worry: the international bankers will lose nothing--not even
their bonuses. They
will maintain their mansions, yachts, private jets,
and Swiss bank accounts. No matter how bad it gets on Main
Street, the
banksters on Wall Street will still have the best of it--President Bush
and the Congress will make
sure of that. This is one thing Republicans
and Democrats can agree on.
America's founders were rightfully
skeptical of granting too much power
to bankers. Thomas Jefferson said, "If the American people ever allow
private
banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by
inflation and then by deflation, the banks and
corporations that will
grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until
their children will
wake up homeless on the continent their fathers
conquered."
Jefferson also believed that "banking establishments
are more dangerous
than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be
paid by posterity, under
the name of funding, is but swindling futurity
on a large scale."
Daniel Webster warned, "Of all the contrivances
for cheating the
laboring classes of mankind, none has been more effectual than that
which deludes them with paper
money."
Webster also said, "We are in danger of being overwhelmed with
irredeemable paper, mere paper,
representing not gold nor silver; no,
Sir, representing nothing but broken promises, bad faith,
bankrupt
corporations, cheated creditors, and a ruined people."
Our first and greatest President George Washington
said, "Paper money
has had the effect in your State [Rhode Island] that it ever will have,
to ruin
commerce--oppress the honest, and open the door to every species
of fraud and injustice."
If George W. Bush, John
McCain, or Barack Obama had any honesty and
integrity, they would approach the current banking malady in much
the
same way that President Andrew Jackson did. In discussing the Bank
Renewal bill with a delegation of bankers
in 1832, Jackson said,
"Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am
convinced that you have
used the funds of the bank to speculate in the
breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the
profits
amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me
that if I take the deposits from
the bank and annul its charter, I shall
ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is
your
sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families,
and that would be my sin! You are a den of
vipers and thieves. I intend
to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out."
What President Andrew
Jackson said to the bankers in 1832 is exactly
what an American President should say to these criminal
international
bankers today. But what George Bush, John McCain, and Barack Obama want
to do is provide amnesty for
the international bankers, just as they
want to provide amnesty for illegal aliens. I say, No amnesty for
Wall
Street, and no amnesty for illegal aliens, either. Instead of sending
these banksters on extended vacations
to the Bahamas with millions of
taxpayer dollars in their pockets, we should be sending them straight
to
jail!
The only way to fix this economic mess that the international bankers
have created is to return America
to sound money principles, as
prescribed in the U.S. Constitution. This means dismantling the Federal
Reserve and
the Internal Revenue Service, overturning the 16th Amendment
and the personal income tax, and returning the
American monetary system
to hard assets: gold and silver. Anything short of this will only delay
and worsen the
inevitable collapse that has already begun.
*If you appreciate this column and want to help me distribute
these
editorial opinions to an ever-growing audience, donations may now be
made by credit card, check, or Money
Order. Use this
link:
http://www
.chuckbaldwinlive.com/donate.php
*Disclaimer: I am currently a
candidate for President of the United
States on the Constitution Party ticket. My official campaign web site
is
located
at:
http://www.baldwin08.c
om/
© Chuck Baldwin
This column is archived
as
[C
OLOR=#0000ff]http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2008/cbarchive_20080926.html[/COLOR][S
IZE=2] [/SIZE]
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
Subject: Fannie Mae
Executives---With Link To Snopes
3Men Who Brought Down Wall Street Be sure to read the 'where they
arenow'!!
Hereis a quick look into 3 former Fannie Mae executives who have brought
down WallStreet.
FranklinRaines was a
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer at Fannie Mae.
Raineswas forced to retire from his position with Fannie Mae
when
auditingdiscovered severe irregulaties in Fannie Mae's accounting
activities. At thetime of his departure
The Wall Street Journal noted, '
Raines, who longdefended the company's accounting despite mounting
evidence
that it wasn'tproper, issued a statement late Tuesday
conceding that 'mistakeswere made' and saying he would
assume
responsibility as he had earlierpromised. News reports indicate the
company was under growing pressure
fromregulators to shake up its
management in the wake of findings that the company'sbooks ran afoul of
generally
accepted accounting principles for fouryears.' Fannie Mae had
to reduce its surplus by $9 billion.
Rainesleft
with a 'golden parachute valued at $240 Million in benefits.
TheGovernment filed suit against Raines when the
depth of the accounting
scandalbecame clear.
http://hou
singdoom.com/2006/12/18/fannie-charges/
<http://housingdoom.com/2006/1
2/18/fannie-charges/> . The
Governmentnoted, 'The 101 charges
reveal how the individuals improperly
manipulatedearnings to maximize their bonuses, while knowingly
neglecting
accountingsystems and internal controls, misapplying over
twenty accounting principlesand misleading the regulator
and the public.
The Notice explains how theysubmitted six years of misleading and
inaccurate accounting statements
andinaccurate capital reports that
enabled them to grow Fannie Mae in an unsafeand unsound manner.' These
charges
were made in 2006. TheCourt ordered Raines to return $50
Million Dollars he received in bonuses basedon the
miss-stated Fannie
Mae profits.
TimHoward - Was the Chief Financial Officer of Fannie Mae. Howard 'wasa
strong
internal proponent of using accounting strategies that would
ensure a'stable pattern of earnings' at Fannie. In
everyday English - he
wascooking the books . The Government Investigation determined
that,'Chief Financial
Officer, Tim Howard, failed to provide adequate
oversightto key control and reporting functions within Fannie
Mae,'
OnJune 16, 2006, Rep. Richard Baker, R-La., asked the Justice Department
toinvestigate his allegations
that two former Fannie Mae executives lied
toCongress in October 2004 when they denied manipulating
the
mortgage-financegiant's income statement to achieve management pay
bonuses. Investigations byfederal
regulators and the company's board of
directors since concluded thatmanagement did manipulate 1998 earnings
to
trigger bonuses. Raines and Howardresigned under pressure in late 2004.
Howard'sGolden Parachute was
estimated at $20 Million!
JimJohnson - A former executive at Lehman Brothers and who was
laterforced from his
position as Fannie Mae CEO. A look at the Office
ofFederal Housing Enterprise Oversight's May 2006 report
on
mismanagement andcorruption inside Fannie Mae, and you'll see some
interesting things aboutJohnson.
Investigators found that Fannie Mae had
hidden a substantial amount ofJohnson's 1998 compensation from
the
public, reporting that it was between $6million and $7 million when it
fact it was $21 million.' Johnson is
currently under investigation for
taking illegal loans fromCountrywide while serving as CEO of Fannie
Mae.
Johnson'sGolden Parachute was estimated at $28 Million.
WHERE ARE THEY NOW?
FRANKLIN RAINES? Raines
works for the Obama Campaign as ChiefEconomic
Advisor
TIM HOWARD? Howard is also a Chief Economic Advisor to
Obama
JIM JOHNSON? Johnson hired as a Senior Obama Finance Advisorand was
selected to run Obama's Vice
Presidential Search Committee
IF OBAMA PLANS ON CLEANING UP THE MESS - HIS ADVISORS HAVE THEEXPERTISE
- THEY
MADE THE MESS IN THE FIRST PLACE. Would you trustthe men who
tore Wall Street down to build the New Wall Street ?
Snopes says that this info linking Obama is not entirely true butit
still stinks.
bf
snopes.com: Obama's
Fannie MaeEconomic
Advisors
<[COLOR
=#0000ff]http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/fanniemae.asp[/COLOR]>
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
Good posts Bel, and they only
scratch the surface.
Its a damnable shame on the MSM that real investigative reporting is so skewed now that
the public is ill-served pretty much to the point of propaganda. Anyone, give me evidence to the contrary and I'll
listen.
Its a secret hidden only from the public that Freddie and Fannie have been in bed with the Dems for
years, going back to the Clinton admin. Gov't policies to push lenders to underwrite high-risk mortgages - with
loads of mismanaged cash guarantees from Fred and Fannie - have been popular in Congress since Christ anointed Dan
Rather but, unfortunately, didn't fall with his eventual demise.
Couple gov't produced artificial markets with
natural greed and you get a crisis. Congress pressured the market with policy, Investment Bankers sucked the tit,
and you and I get sour milk. Throw in the Fed Reserve Bank driving rates down and you get more artificial money
incentivising bad debt.
There are many more factors at play here of course. But I think one has to look
broadly at what fundamentally informs our positions. The debate in front of us should be more philosophically
driven, and not based on "fixes".
I'm only mildly amazed that a bailout bill was voted down due to popular
opposition, and then gets passed after loading it up with a bunch of trash. I simply want to tear out my few
remaining hairs. Good thing I've learned to properly place my emotional priorities.
Last edited by idesign; 10-03-2008 at 07:59 PM. Reason: I can't think of everything
They basically support what I
have been saying for some time now. The current way of doing business is not sustainable and is leading to a point
of collapse. Better the collapse now than later because the longer we wait the worse the impact is going to be.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
I would love to see this guy at the
helm
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=WRUo0ycRWic&feature=dir
To enjoy good health, to bring true happiness to one's family, to bring peace to all, one must first discipline and control one's own mind. If a man can control his mind he can find the way to Enlightenment, and all wisdom and virtue will naturally come to him.
- Buddha
Yoga in Eugene
Fair Trade crafts from Peru
I'm not bothering myself
over this election anymore. I'll write-in Ron Paul for President, vote for my Congresswoman Carol Shea-Porter,
Dem, who stood her ground and voted twice not to support the bailout, and then write in either Beavis or Butthead
for the rest of slate.
There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!
have found an interesting
site about US election:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/icon.html
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen
Holmes' Theme Song
Where's Pat Paulson when you
need him? Anyone remember him and care to admit it?
I was but a mere
child, that's all I'll admit to.
Beavis and Butthead '08
There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!
geez, seems like
it's been going on forever. I don't expect things to get better no matter who wins.
There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!
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