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  1. #301
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Default

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    Please forgive me but this is

    funny...



    http://www.atlah.o

    rg/broadcast/ndnr09-03-08.html
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  2. #302
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    Default you

    are forgiven, lmao, that was

    funnnnnneeeee.
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  3. #303
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    Default uh oh Obama

    "Just to update you

    a bit, I just filed a Motion for Expedited Discovery, Extensive Discovery, Deposition of Senator Obama and Howard

    Dean, Chairman of the DNC. This may get things moving a bit.

    In addition, Senator Obama and the DNC must

    have their Answer to the complaint filed by September 24, 2008. The FEC has until October 21, 2008."

    here's

    the link if you are

    interested:

    http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/20...iber-explains/
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  4. #304
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    KK - I wonder about the validity

    of this lawsuit. Does Berg even have standing to file? On what ground? Why is the only news of this story, a

    potentially HUGE event, only found on a little blog? Enquiring minds want to know! Any lawyers out there?

    OTOH,

    there is a lot of action in the Obama camp... reorganizing, re-making themselves etc. And Joe Biden is out there

    saying Hillary could be a better VP. Strange doings, what are they up to? Finding a way to wiggle out of a bad

    ticket?

    Palin has sucked every bit of oxygen from the Dems in this race, and it may just be that they're

    desperate to revive the Obama "miracle". Don't think they can pull if off though, a magic trick only works until

    the audience figures out the deception.

    Indeed, I think Hil would be their nominee if there had been enough

    time for Obama to be publicly "vetted".


  5. #305
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    It's found in a number of news

    sources but not the biggest ones. A lawyer buddy introduced me to it in the first place and he has a copy of the

    actual filings. I think its legitimate. I can send you the filings in PDF format if you are interested. A little big

    to post here but they are available if you want to look through more than 40 pages of legal gibberish. He is classed

    as a nut job so it probably will not go anywhere.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  6. #306
    Moderator Mtnjim's Avatar
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    I was listening to the BBC on my

    drive home from work the other night and they mentioned that the BBC World Service had conducted a poll.



    "People outside the US would prefer Barack Obama

    to become US president ahead of John McCain, a BBC World Service poll suggests.
    "
    Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite.
    --Lazarus Long

  7. #307
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Our election isn't really any

    of their business and opinions of who we should elect are out of line. We have no right to tell others who they can

    elect and we should never pay attention to what other countries think about our elections.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  8. #308
    Moderator Mtnjim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth View Post
    Our

    election isn't really any of their business and opinions of who we should elect are out of line.
    This

    may have been true in the 19th century, but today who we elect as President effects the whole world. Just

    look at Afganistan and Iraq.
    Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite.
    --Lazarus Long

  9. #309
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    It may effect the whole world

    but it still does not matter what any other part of the world wants. We are free to vote as we wish and their

    opinions do not matter. By the same token we do not have the right to tell others who to vote for. Perhaps if

    countries would get their noses out of other country's internal matters we all would be better off. I think so.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  10. #310
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    This was an opinion poll,

    was it not? I'm not sure that anyone's telling us who we can elect.

    Just as I can express my

    opinions about Putin, Tony Blair, or Benito Mussolini, so too can our neighbors express how they feel about the

    stupid things we're up to.

    Weird, though, because last I heard, Obama was disliked - quite strongly in

    places - overseas. I guess they hate the McCain/Palin tagteam just that vehemently. And I can't say I blame

    them. In general, between Palin and Obama (and especially after 8 years of a mental midget playing War Games with

    the rest of the world), we deserve every bit of the mirth and distain that comes our way.
    If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen

    Holmes' Theme Song

  11. #311
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    You'll notice that I have not

    once expressed an opinion about a leader of another country. Same as I don't express opinions about how others run

    their own homes. It isn't my business with very few exceptions.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  12. #312
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Courting international opinion

    is like having too many mistresses, with the same result.


  13. #313
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    It's like anything else. You

    should do what you believe is right regardless of what others believe or do. A good example were the French. When

    they wouldn't go to war for whatever reasons they were ridiculed here in this country. Now we have decided that the

    war the French didn't want to participate in is a bad war the French are laughing at us. The honest and honorable

    thing to do would be for all those who ridiculed the French and now whine about the war to publicly apologize. I'm

    sure there has been a huge public stampede to do exactly that but for some reason I've missed it in the news.



    The point is that self honesty is missing when you base your decisions on what others want or believe. Our

    elections are meant to select leaders that will work for the citizens of the US regardless of what corporations or

    other nations want them to do.

    As a side note, I'm very amused to note two contraditions the Obama campaign has

    created. How is an inexperienced senator a good presidential choice but a somewhat more experienced govornor a too

    inexperienced choice for VP? And, with all the claims of how the Republicans are for big business, how do they

    justify claiming the current administration is letting down the little guy by not stopping Lehman from failing?

    Lehman is the big guy, the evil corporate giant!

    Lastly, it is easy to call names but of all the ones calling

    leaders names, I see nothing towards constructive criticism. I challenge any one of those calling names to show a

    workable alternative to what was done. In the past I criticized Clinton and Bush on various issues but I also

    commended both of them on other things because I try to stay objective and rational while staying away from

    childishness. I've never agreed with any leader on everything and I am very opposed to certain things that some

    stand for. But, when credit is due I give it. The failure of so many to do the same thing is a sad statement on this

    nation and the people in it.

    In my opinion, addressing issues and policies and the impact they will have for

    the long and short term of this country is the best approach. Name calling, lies and mudslinging by both major

    parties and their adherents is both reprehensible and disgusting. We can do better than that!
    Last edited by belgareth; 09-15-2008 at 09:13 AM.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  14. #314
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth View Post
    The

    point is that self honesty is missing when you base your decisions on what others want or believe. Our elections are

    meant to select leaders that will work for the citizens of the US regardless of what corporations or other nations

    want them to do.
    Yes, that's the entire point in my view.

    I think its true whether

    you're talking about how a politician handles his/her decisions personally, or the reasoning behind their policy

    decisions as leader of this country.

    The interests of the US as a nation will never perfectly align

    with those of any other country, its always been so. Now, we do some pretty idiotic things at times (thank you

    Holmes), but the balance of the equation would be what "world opinion" would be if we withdrew

    completely from our engagement in the world.


  15. #315
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idesign View Post
    I think

    its true whether you're talking about how a politician handles his/her decisions personally, or the reasoning

    behind their policy decisions as leader of this country.
    That's a good point. Perhaps in

    selecting leaders we should look at some things that aren't often disclosed now. For instance, if a politician

    doesn't pay his or her bills on time or is over-extended do we really want them managing our national debt? If they

    cannot get along with their neighbors should they be making foreign policy? If they routinely break the laws should

    they be writing and/or enforcing the laws? If they have never worked for a living should they be deciding what is

    best for those that do on a daily basis? In all cases I think not but nonetheless we have many politicians in

    offices right now that fit one or more of the descriptions above.

    How a person handles themselves in their

    private life is a strong indicator of how they will handle themselves in a public life. A jerk or a thief always

    will be one as will an honest and upstanding person.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgarath View Post

    How a

    person handles themselves in their private life is a strong indicator of how they will handle themselves in a public

    life. A jerk or a thief always will be one as will an honest and upstanding person.


    Yep. See one

    Rangel, Charles. Looooong time congressman and Chair of the House,Ways and Means committee. Wants so badly to raise

    all our taxes, yet can't quite seem to wanna play by the same rules.

    Of course being a darling of the left and

    pretty much a Marxist.good ole Charlie can expect a solid allie in the Main Stream Media.

  17. #317
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    Charlie Rangel, yikes. He

    wants you to do what he's unwilling to do, pay his taxes. And, the wonderful Vichy Dem Pelosi backs him 100%.

    These are our leaders.

    I see the polls are indicating that the Palin magic dust is starting to wear off and

    that Obama is slightly back in the lead.

    What I really like hearing is when some politico is retiring or

    gets sick, like Kennedy, and they all go on and on about this politician's "self-sacrificing service to their

    country, so unselfish, so devoted to public service". What if the whole population demanded that they too be

    allowed to be such self-sacrificing personages, guess we're all just too selfish to be in amongst those worthies.



    After 7 years of Bush I honestly can't think of one good thing he's done for our country, not one.

    Anybody know of anything?

    I'm writing in Ron Paul this election, the hell with it.
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  18. #318
    Moderator idesign's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tounge View Post
    Yep. See

    one Rangel, Charles. Looooong time congressman and Chair of the House,Ways and Means committee. Wants so badly to

    raise all our taxes, yet can't quite seem to wanna play by the same rules.
    Exactly tongue, its his

    "Ways" and our "Means".


  19. #319
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolking1 View Post
    After

    7 years of Bush I honestly can't think of one good thing he's done for our country, not one. Anybody know of

    anything?

    I'm writing in Ron Paul this election, the hell with it.
    I may write in Ron Paul myself

    since he seems the only almost worthwhile candidate. On the other hand I may choose to not vote for a presidential

    candidate at all since none of them are worth much at all.

    Since Bush's failings and accomplishments are in

    large part a matter of personal beliefs and perspective that is a non-answerable question in any reasonable sense.

    Be honest, would he ever have done anything right in your eyes, regardless of what he did?

    I do feel very

    strongly that he was a far better man to be running things after 9/11 than Al Gore. But, that again is a matter of

    perspective. Your question leads me to another question that seems obvious. What would he have accomplished had

    congress not been so stridently opposed to everything he tried to do? We'll never know but I hold congress just as

    responsible for the last 20 years worth of screwups as I do any president. More so, in reality because while

    presidents come and go, congress changes far less.

    Interesting article:

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/09152008... <br /> .htm
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  20. #320
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    Default going back to

    the past it helps

    to remember that Bush was not elected by the American citizenry, he was elected by the Supreme Court. Al Gore won

    the popular vote. I have no idea if Gore would have made better choices after the 911 attack but I do consider

    Bush' choices to be about as bad it could have possibly been. My own opinion is that Bush and Company should have

    respectfully resigned on 9/12/01 for their abject failure to protect the airspace of the USA.

    Hi Comrades,

    welcome to the USSA, the United States Socialist America.
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  21. #321
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    That's really sad. You should

    know that 9/11 was planned and almost completely put into place under Clinton and his people. The balance was

    committed under people who were still working under Clinton policies. Go back and study the material available and

    you will find that true, completely.

    As for Al Gore winning the popular vote, work to change the system if you

    don't like it. Bush won the electoral vote and that is the system in place. All the court really did was uphold the

    law to the best of their ability. Had they decided the other way I am sure there would be people from the other side

    making the same claims.

    You have not made a very good argument and in all respect, you should admit at least

    that after Clinton's fumble of letting the terrorists into this country and Bush's war in the mid-east, we have

    not had another terrorist attack in the US while other coutries have had serious attacks.

    Personally, from my

    perspective, I believe Gore, the Clintons, and Obama are far closer to socialists than Bush ever could be. But that

    is my perspective which is clearly different from yours.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  22. #322
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    Clinton, Gore, Obama may

    have socialist leaning tendencies but Bush is bringing the real deal Socialism, with a capital S, to us this week.

    If Congress rubber stamps his proposal to bail out AIG it will be their last act resulting in their complete loss of

    any power over the Executive branch. Of course, they will retain their lofty titles, huge paychecks, perks, and top

    notch medical coverage but that's about it.

    "Beyond the Constitutional deficiencies, the bailout establishes

    a dangerous precedent enabling the Fed and/or Government to nationalize virtually any business or property within

    the United States without legal authority or congressional approval."

    You should read the full

    article:

    http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org...2008-09-18.htm
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  23. #323
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    "That's really sad. You

    should know that 9/11 was planned and almost completely put into place under Clinton and his people. The balance was

    committed under people who were still working under Clinton policies. Go back and study the material available and

    you will find that true, completely."

    Bel, are you saying that the 911 attack was a US Government sponsored

    event?

    Myself, I have to say that it seems pretty inconcievable to me that the hijackers and their sponsors

    (whoever they are) had such great intel that they were able to pick the perfect day to pull it off (multiple

    exercises, NORAD standown). From what I understand the "rules of engagement" were changed in June 2001 giving

    Cheney, rather than the Pentagon, control and then changed back to the Pentagon a few weeks after 911.
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  24. #324
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    "As for Al Gore winning the

    popular vote, work to change the system if you don't like it."

    I think you already know that I have been

    doing that exactly. I campaigned heartily during the NH primary for Ron Paul, manning phone banks and doing other

    logistical work for the campaign. Today, my girlfriend and I are helping a woman running for State Representative

    here by canvassing a nearby neighborhood with her, luckily - it's a gorgeous day here today.
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  25. #325
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    Default just a few comments on a more political

    board:

    Given the mass "hysteria" surrounding this "bailout," I have little doubt that Sec 8 is

    but one of many provisions in this bill that are fundamentally unconstitutional and unAmerican.

    This new bill

    is a lot like the Patriot Act, a sweeping and unconstitutional revision of our basic civil and privacy rights that

    went thru Congress faster than the runners in front of Pamplona's bulls. Hell, if 10% of our "elected"

    representatives even read, much less analyze, this legislation before voting the way the Administration demands,

    then I'd eat my hat. I think Mike Moore needs to bring his truck mounter speaker and start circling Capitol Hill

    NOW.

    At least our Congresscritters could get something for the people out of this fiasco. A tax hike on the

    top 1% of America's income earners (and a similar tax on the wealth of America's top 1%-ers) would go a small way

    towards putting the revenue needed to finance the bailout into the Treasury's coffers.

    Then again, that

    would mean the incumbents on Capitol Hill would have to represent The People and not their friends in the special

    interest classes.

    SP

    Posted by: Serving Patriot | 20 September 2008 at 05:45 PM

    (In most other

    advanaced nations, the executive leadership would resign to take responsibility for a disaster of this magnitude.

    )That should be the first condition when the Dems negotiate this bailout package. Make John Warner caretake

    president. The Dems cannot negotiate a package with the current White House in good faith. There is no

    trust.

    And yes, this is a rich-person bailout package. But is there an alternative?

    Posted by: g.

    powell | 20 September 2008 at 05:47 PM

    What is it about these Republicans that makes them think they can

    dictate to the Federal Courts and Congress?
    I think it is important to distinguish between Republicans and

    Regimists. The supine Democrats have done as much to empower these radicals as the party whose name they have

    appropriated.

    Posted by: rjj | 20 September 2008 at 05:48 PM

    I put one comment in brackets to make it

    stand out. I've always felt that 911 was such a failure that we did require new leadership afterwards, and now

    this fiasco.
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

  26. #326
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolking1 View Post
    Bel,

    are you saying that the 911 attack was a US Government sponsored event?
    No, I'm saying that Clinton's

    presidency let the terrorists into this country. The attack took months too plan, more months to find and properly

    orient the right people then get them into this country. There is no way the attacks of 9/11 could have been pulled

    off in under 18 months and more likely 2 years.

    I'm not a paranoid imbicile and have no reason whatsoever to

    believe anybody in this country's government would do something like that.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  27. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolking1 View Post
    Clinton, Gore, Obama may have socialist leaning tendencies but Bush is bringing the real

    deal Socialism, with a capital S, to us this week. If Congress rubber stamps his proposal to bail out AIG it will be

    their last act resulting in their complete loss of any power over the Executive branch. Of course, they will retain

    their lofty titles, huge paychecks, perks, and top notch medical coverage but that's about it.

    "Beyond the

    Constitutional deficiencies, the bailout establishes a dangerous precedent enabling the Fed and/or Government to

    nationalize virtually any business or property within the United States without legal authority or congressional

    approval."

    You should read the full article:



    http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org...2008-09-18.htm
    And others were already

    screaming that the government had to bail out AIG or the economy would come apart. Like I said, no matter what he

    did, in some people's eyes he would be wrong. It also mistates about congressional approval, which has to be

    obtained.

    Out of curiosity, what do you believe should be done in this situation? It is very easy to criticise

    and complain but I see nothing in the way of constructive thought. Personally, I believe the feds owe it to the tax

    payers to protect them from bad lending practices, which they did not do, and protect them from loss of their homes

    and investments in the event of a failure like this. However, I do not believe the feds or the tax payers owe AIG

    diddly squat and we should be holding the executives who made all the bad decisions criminally responsible.

    I do

    not like Bush and do not agree with the bailout but find the premise of it leading to a socialist state a little

    far-fetched. Just out of curiosity, do you support nationalized healthcare aka Universal Healthcare?

    In my

    opinion, this country is moving more rapidly towards socialism all the time and I blame both parties for it. But

    more than that I blame all those that think the country and the people owe them something for just breathing. A

    recent example was Obama's statement that it is patriotic for high income earners to pay a greater percentage of

    their income in taxes. What an utter crock of BS! How is it patriotic to work harder and smarter then get penalized

    for it. The entire concept is no more than redistribution of the wealth.
    Last edited by belgareth; 09-22-2008 at 05:01 AM.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  28. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolking1 View Post
    "As for

    Al Gore winning the popular vote, work to change the system if you don't like it."

    I think you already know

    that I have been doing that exactly. I campaigned heartily during the NH primary for Ron Paul, manning phone banks

    and doing other logistical work for the campaign. Today, my girlfriend and I are helping a woman running for State

    Representative here by canvassing a nearby neighborhood with her, luckily - it's a gorgeous day here

    today.
    Good for you. I really mean that. No matter what we agree ar disagree about I truly respect somebody

    who is working to achieve what they believe. Thank you for your effort.

    But, it does not change the fact that

    legally, under the laws in place at the time of the election, George Bush won. Losing then complaining and trying to

    get the rules changed after the fact is plain silly.

    It really pissed me off recently when the democrats took

    delegate voting rights away from two states for breaking the rules then turned around and gave them back. You break

    the rules in full knowledge of the consequences you should suffer the consequences without exception. The attitude

    that the rules should be changed after the fact or not enforced is a big part of what is wrong with our society

    today. No consequences for your actions.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  29. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by koolking1 View Post
    I put

    one comment in brackets to make it stand out. I've always felt that 911 was such a failure that we did require new

    leadership afterwards, and now this fiasco.
    Quotes from rabid liberals, so? I think your suggestion falls

    under the catagory of "Any Excuse Will Do" Did you howl for Clinton's head when the patently artificial DotCom

    bubble burst? How should Clinton be penalized for allowing the terrorists into this country in the first place?
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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    "Out of curiosity, what do

    you believe should be done in this situation? " A bailout is necessary, there's no doubt about that. I don't

    think though that the American public is being told the whole truth. The housing crisis is bad enough but it pales

    in comparison to the derivitives crisis which is far far worse. But, back to the housing/mortgage

    crisis:

    So, we the taxpayers are going to foot the bill for the largresse of the mortgage companies, ok - so

    now we own all that bad debt. I suspect though that when the economy turns around (it may take quite a while this

    time) that those houses will still be owned by the mortage companies and they will eventually sell them with new

    mortgage holders and reap the rewards. That's a sweet deal and a half. So, ok - bail them out but make sure we,

    the taxpayers, get the eventual benefit. This is why you are seeing the talking heads on TV pushing hard and fast

    to get this done, they don't want Congress to look at the fine print (much the like the Patriot Act). I say, whoa

    - hold on and let's take a look at it and revise it where it surely needs revision.
    There is a cure for electile dysfuntion!!!!

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