Yeah, I know. I lived there
through it. When I was growing up they had the best schools in the country, now they are beat out by almost every
state in education.
Last I heard they were going to outlaw back yard, charcoal barbecues because of air
pollution and you are pretty much stuck buying electric powered garden tools even though they have a power shortage
due to the refusal to build new power plants. They send so much fresh water south that many areas in the north are
becoming desert and they actually have to publish the salt content of tap water! Then the farmers who buy the fresh
water at government subsidized rates don't use it and are trying to resell it to the public at commercial rates.
I'm so glad I moved out of that state!
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
The Democratic Party in the US is doing the same thing. Their central message is
change from Bush. They do not talk in detail about what they believe. They will not say "We want to take more of
your money in taxes and increase government control over every life". They say instead "We want to give you "free"
healthcare".
Well,
our world is not perfect, neither the politicians are By the way, my sister lives in France and they really have
first-class medical care there. It is free and in some sense resembles the Soviet one but many times better.
Are you a Republican?
Reading your words
helps me understand better what I have been thinking. The weight and inertia of your history may be impossible to
alter.
I would say that it may be very long process.
The Russian desire for a strong central leader is a cultural
enigma. With a leader such as Putin or (apparently) Medvedev, you have the security and safety of a Czar with the
beginnings of personal freedom and economic prosperity.
And
the main thing is that we have not necessity to think ourselves By the way, our parliament is called Duma as
under the Czars. ‘Duma’ is made from a word ‘dumat’ - to think. Its task was to help the Czar to think. But it is
not a parliament, of course
It raises another question: do you think the "average" Russian
cares about politics in a pure sense? Of course everyone thinks about politics if they can see it effecting their
life, but do you care about the structure of government or what its called?
No, not in the
least degree. Our political ignorance is unlimited.
I think Putin has
answered "yes". While he is not a real "democrat", he at least is moving away from certain vestiges of the past.
What do you think?
I think that he understands well that there is not other way to rule
modern Russians but the way he does. Maybe some time later democracy will be possible. I agree with him.
BTW, Colombia is
an interesting study in security and democracy. What Uribe has done is nothing short of amazing. They still have
problems with the FARC, but have turned the country around. Medellin's mayor, Fajardo, has done a great job in that
city, former base of the now dead Escobar.
Well, many
countries had a strong leader as a transitional step.
My next question would be: to what extent do Russians desire a
real democracy?
Most of Russians don’t want democracy openly
and say that they prefer autocracy, as for others I think that the absolute majority of them haven’t even a notion
what democracy is. Again, I was communicating with our ‘democrats’ - it is something terrible.
Congratulations on your election Alexey. It was a tense moment
waiting for the results.
Thank you, Greg. It was a bit nervous indeed and till the
last moment we didn’t know who might win. But it ended well. They say that in some Northern districts appearance of
electors was even a bit more than 100% because bears came to support their candidate (‘medved’ means ‘bear’ in
Russian and ‘ev’ is equal ‘son’ in Robertson or Johnson).
Free is
never free. I don't want to pay the tax of a Frenchman.
I am a "medved". I only come out of the forest when there is
a candidate worthy of more than 100% of the vote. I have become weary of the forest.
Seriously, I do not identify with "Republican". I would say Conservative with Libertarian
underwear.
America has become such a place, but for
different reasons.
Your government has imposed rule for centuries, and you have had the "luxury" of life
without the responsibility of political thought.
In America, our history is founded on fiercely independent
thinking and lively debate. However, the progression of socialist programs and ideals in this century has lead to a
rather large bureaucracy of what you might call "program perpetuators". This has led to our current electoral
system in which people try to avoid thinking about it at all costs. So you see, we are the same.
Our
parliament is called "Congress", which means "collection" or "collective". As our system evolved over time, it has
also taken on the meaning "idiot", or "collection of idiots". Its task is to collect and spend money, regulate
bowel movements and approve of itself by salary increases
and periodic controlled elections. It is no longer a parliament of
course...
As for us, our
unlimited ignorance is political.
In fact, the more stupid the idea, the better chance it has for political
popularity.
Its very interesting to
read your comments Alexey. I'm beginning to understand the situation in your country, its been a long time since I
studied Russia.
Like you say, Putin, and his way of governing, is a natural progression in your development. I
hope Medvedev takes you just a little further.
Let me say, for all of us, we are very fortunate to have you as a
member of this forum. Thanks for your interesting conversation.
We have a similar phenomena in our elections. Sometimes dead people and family
pets vote for their favorite candidate.
Last edited by idesign; 03-09-2008 at 09:36 PM.
Alexey, how did you find this
forum? Do you use pheromones? Are you here for the very enlightening political discourse? I'm just
curious.
Allow me a question. If you could move to America and live here as a citizen, would you do it? Why?
What would you expect the differences to be?
Greg, I was a bit busy (we are formalizing our divorce with Yabloko party ) and
am going to answer your previous post at the weekend.
Alexey, how did you find this forum?
Oh, a great place. Really. I hope that I’ll stay here for long.
Do
you use pheromones?
I don’t even know what it is
Are you here for the very enlightening political
discourse?I'm
just curious.
Actually, I was looking for a forum for practicing my English.
But it seems that I can find here more.
Allow me a question. If you could move to America and
live here as a citizen, would you do it? Why? What would you expect the differences to be?
Well, it is a difficult question. To
be frank, I would prefer to stay in Europe. I would like to live in Czech republic or something like this. That is,
I would prefer to live in Russia, but sometimes I begin to think that it is impossible to live here.
But I would love to have an American wife for learning English
I'm fond of this post. These are the kinds of
questions we should be asking, even if they might seem a bit naive or ethnocentric.
In my experience, people
from abroad generally have a very nuanced view of America. It's not just a black and white situation of either
"haters" (from terrible places, like FRANCE ) who buy into propaganda; versus "poor lost souls" and "tired,
huddled masses" who yearn for the peace, freedoms and comforts of our "superior" lifestyle. Believing this really
would be naive and ethnocentric.
For every five Cuban soccer players seeking asylum, there are countless others
who have very good reasons for preferring other places.
What attracts me most to the US is that I am comfortable
and familiar with the culture, and my family and friends are here. As it turns out, I think I'd feel isolated
elsewhere. Otherwise, I'd look at about fifteen other countries for various reasons.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
No
problem Alexey. Would you care to tell us more about your activities? It would be interesting to hear about. I am
not KGB (can't remember the new name), so you can speak freely.
Your English is too good! My question
"how did you find this forum" can be read two ways, and you answered the more colloquial (and difficult for
foreigners) meaning of the phrase. I could alternatively ask "how did you discover this forum"?
Pheromones are the main point of this forum. You
might want to read other areas of the forum and find out about the kind of people you're talking to.
Its difficult for
many (maybe most) Americans to understand how easy it is to live here relative to other countries. We complain and
criticize a lot, for some good reasons, but not all of them are good.
Our system is a 200 year old experiment,
and today has no resemblance to its beginning. Honestly, I think we do not have the capacity to change the
direction. However, there is nothing preventing me from living any life I choose and am able to make. Its becoming
more difficult though.
I am curious about your reason for saying "sometimes I begin to think it is impossible to
live here (Russia)". Is it for reasons relating to daily life? Lack of opportunity?
If you answer with a very
long reply you will have good English practice, and we will have the benefit of very interesting reading. When
your divorce is complete, of course.
An American wife will teach you much more than English. But I am not
complaining, quite the opposite.
Last edited by idesign; 03-14-2008 at 06:44 PM. Reason: the usual
I like naive, to a point. Did you ever read or see "Being There"? The character Chance was
ultimately naive, and had a simplicity in his approach to life and people that was completely honest, and likable.
Of course that's an extreme.
Ethnocentricity is unfortunate, like, ummmm, lack of education.
I think you're
right about the world's view of America. I think if you eliminate political and geographic boundaries, and just
think of "people" around the world, the opinions about the US will pretty much line up with opinions among
Americans. That's to say, some will be hyper-critical, and some blindly adoring, with most in the middle
somewhere.
I don't think the world hates the US, nor do I think we need to worry about "restoring America's
respect", as some politicians are fond of saying.
Bel, Doc and Jim, I'm with you guys. I'm thinking of a place
where the mountains are less than an hour from the beach. I think I'd have to come back for lengthy periods
though.
Idesign, Imeant it all as a
compliment. "Seeming" naive or ethnocentric is different from being that. If I ask someone their opinion of my
behavior to learn something about myself, it might seem self-centered on the surface. But it's not really. And what
seems naive can really be open minded.
Portland, Oregon is surrounded by huge mountains, ocean, rainforest,
and desert, all within a 90 minute drive or less; in addition to being a great city, in terms of lifestyle, music,
and culture. There is nowhere in the world quite like it, judging from the many comments of international travelers
I've heard over the years. And it's right here in the good ole US of freakin A. There's ethnocentric for ya'.
On the other hand, if you hate rain you are SOL here.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
I used to sign my posts with my name, Greg, but fell out of the habit. I thought of having Bruce
change my forum name but I guess its too late now. Anyway, call me Greg.
No worries Doc, I knew what you were
getting at. This writing/reading thing is like soooo overrated. Good thing we have emoticons to help out along
the way.
Perhaps we should establish a blanket agreement like Bel and I had in a previous thread. Something
like "I promise to not be a jerk".
I spent 2 weeks in and around Port Orchard, WA for a job and loved
it, except the rain. Not much culture there either, but we took the ferry to Seattle and had a great time. Drove
up to Port Angeles and the Olympic Range. Amazing place. Sequim is quite the lavender growing area (in a weird
rain shadow), and every shop was full of it, very cool.
There's too much to love about our country to not be
ethnocentric to the point of loving it above others. I think that must be a pretty universal sentiment, even for
people who live in difficult places.
Glad you had a chance to enjoy
the Pacific Northwest.
Lavender, rock rose (labdanum), and rosemary grow all over the place here, as do roses
and lots of evergreens. You can pretty much walk around with some grain alcohol and pick yourself an aftershave for
free, if you know when to pick stuff. Plus, every neighborhood is filled with fragrant gardens.
Sorry to
digress, but I've been on an "I love Portland" kick lately.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
Digress all you like, I enjoy
reading it. Makes me wish I lived in a place I was passionate about. Don't get me wrong, its a nice place, if
you're into surfing or sportfishing. I'm not into either, so I get my fix of interesting things by traveling
around the region, which is FULL of very cool places. Lots of history along the east coast, which is nice.
As
an aside Doc... forgive me if I'm not all that adept at responding appropriately sometimes. I'm pretty new to the
whole Forum format and I forget that people can't hear my voice or see my expressions. I'm also a little slow on
the uptake at times.
Last edited by idesign; 03-16-2008 at 07:00 PM.
Alexey, we miss your posts here.
I hope you are well. Мы надеемся
видеть вас снова
скоро друг.
Alexey, if you're still
there...
One of our presidential candidates stated that Russia should not be a part of the G8 (economic Group of
8) because of Russia's departure from Democracy. What do you think of this? He advocates allowing India and
Brazil into the group.
Alexey, we miss
your posts here. I hope you are well.Ìû ÃÃäååìñÿ âèäåòü âÃñ ñÃîâà ñêîðî
äðóã.
Sorry for my absence, I was
a bit busy with my Live Journal . They say that top bloggers get 4-5 thousands a month and the idea grasped me
Plus, for some reasons I don’t get any notifications about new posts on
the forum.
Alexey, if you're still there...
One of our presidential
candidates stated that Russia should not be a part of the G8 (economic Group of 8) because of Russia's departure
from Democracy. What do you think of this? He advocates allowing India and Brazil into the group.
Greg, it was not clear for me what we are doing in G8 at all in the
first place. I don’t know what Russia produces – it is definitely not cars, electronics or clothes, maybe tanks or
missiles?
I think that it was a political step and, of course, if we are
booted out it would be an offence.
If the West wants some democracy here
it should negotiate with the Kremlin. It is possible if some money are donated. I mean organization of the second
party and the like.
I agree Alex. Russia should be
kept as a G8 partner. One would hope that pressure could be placed on Russia within that forum. These days, I have
less hope for that.
I suppose the most important work to be done in Russia is organizing and educating people
about Democratic ideals. Is that what you're doing in your blog? Will it make a difference?
What I hear him saying is that it's not so much the ideals themselves, the shining cities on the
hill, that are hard to grasp; but rather the landscape -- practical, problematic realities of where the society is,
with respect to distance and terrain, in achieving anything like those ideals.
Even here, where we like to think
it all happened more or less "organically" (for most white people, and people with the biggest guns, anyway) the
ugliness of the landscape we have crossed and are crossing strains the imaginiation at times.
Rather, the lions
share of the former responsibility, to make clear the ideals and benefits of liberty and democracy; remains ours.
And it is not a matter of our words, to put it mildly. What good is it for them to learn more, when we have so much
to learn before we can teach anybody much more than a confusing, and at times nonsensical story?
There are
certainly those who think we have done a great job of "spreading democracy", and consequently its ideals. But that
belief happens most everywhere to evoke fiery and divisive debate more than any kind of understanding.
If we
ever achieve liberty and democracy here, for more than a minority, and demonstrate some integrity with that; there
will be no problem anywhere in the world finding a majority of people to buy into it. It is now a very small world
with a substantial collective consciousness. Most people want desparately to believe in ideals like these, on one
level; but they have their good reasons for not doing so.
A movie that brought some of this to light was
"Control Room", a documentary about individuals working for Al Jazeera in Iraq, individuals who would have
absolutely loved to spend their days dreaming about democracy, all other things being equal. I once reviewed it
here.
Last edited by DrSmellThis; 04-15-2008 at 12:46 AM.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
I agree Alex. Russia should be kept as a G8 partner. One would hope that
pressure could be placed on Russia within that forum. These days, I have less hope for that.
So do you think, Greg, that Russia is going to be booted out from G8?
I suppose the
most important work to be done in Russia is organizing and educating people about Democratic ideals. Is that what
you're doing in your blog? Will it make a difference?
Well, again, I think that something is changed when the generation is
changed.
I opened a poll not long ago about who is to blame most for
the war in Yugoslavia. And on a democratic forum most people tipped the box ‘USA’
It was a jocular song here with stanzas like this ‘if there is no
water in the house, the Jews have drank it’ and the like.
It is
senseless to talk to such people.
My blog is photo one.
http://bayukov.livejournal.com/
I plan to add some politics but just for attracting people.
However, we are constructing a site and there is going to be a section
in English.
I’ll tell you about it in details when it is ready.
Well, McCain was the one who mentioned it. If he's
elected I'm not sure that he'll have a consensus. A lot could depend on Medvedev too. In the final analysis,
Russia has no place among the G7. Perhaps it would be an offense to Russia, but perhaps that is what is needed to
keep pressure on the Kremlin. I don't need to remind you, it was economics which broke the back of the Soviets.
Putin is no stranger to pressure, and Medvedev will learn quickly. The pressure of non-acceptance is good healthy
medicine for an autocrat.
Having said that, membership in the G8 is meaningless for Russia until they have an
economy which actually matters to the world economy. That, and democracy, will take some time, as you've said.
I understand your sentiments with Russian political sophistication. I was mostly
wondering about the group you are working in and what kind of things you are doing.
I'm curious, what kind of
politics/government are taught in the gymnazia? What is the next generation being taught?
Even as I write this,
I just saw on TV that Putin embraced the Peoples' Party, and spoke of "consolidating power". Kasparov said the
power move was "byzantine". I have to agree, in a purely intellectual way.
However, I understand and agree with
your assessment of Russia's political necessity of having an autocratic leader. Personal security and economic
stability require it, like you say.
It seems to me that Russians are naive, and wonderfully untainted by
politics. This is both a compliment and a criticism. Those who care about politics are as voices crying in the
wilderness. The rest are married to their culture, perhaps not happily at times, but free of an added burden.
I
like your photo blog a lot Alexey. Is anyone allowed to post photos? I also enjoyed your "How I Participated in
the Russian Elections".
My favorite was your marriage commentary, and the bride in this picture:
http://i011.radikal.ru/0803/25/fea70ee41380.jpg
I understand your sentiments with Russian political sophistication.
I was mostly wondering about the
group you are working in and what kind of things you are doing.
It was several people from one of our parties Yabloko (apple). The
most active one was a local leader of the youth organization under this party.
Our last job was trying to organize answers of party candidates in their
blogs. We asked candidates and just party members to open treads where people could ask them questions during
campaign. The TV channels were virtually closed for them. However, as a rule they don’t want to answer anything.
I'm curious, what
kind of politics/government are taught in the gymnazia? What is the next generation being taught?
Well, the next generation just are not taught that grandpa
Lenin was the most human man and that communism is inevitable. I hope that the generation after it will be taught
something else. Actually, it is a continuous fight between different ministers what should be taught in
schools…
I think that some basis of democracy are taught now.
Even as I write this, I just saw on TV that Putin embraced the
Peoples' Party, and spoke of "consolidating power".
You mean ‘United Russia’, Greg? Putin now is a member of it and is going
to be elected its leader.
Kasparov said the power move was "byzantine". I have to agree, in
a purely intellectual way.
Yes, but with such politicians as
Kasparov there are no other choice
However, I understand and
agree with your assessment of Russia's political necessity of having an autocratic leader. Personal security and
economic stability require it, like you say.
In Russia yes.
Of course, if there is a middle class it is better to have democracy.
It seems to me that Russians are naive, and wonderfully
untainted by politics. This is both a compliment and a criticism. Those who care about politics are as voices crying
in the wilderness. The rest are married to their culture, perhaps not happily at times, but free of an added burden.
Yes, Russians are very naive. It is discussed why it is seen
if a person is Russian . I remember an American movie and there was a moment when several tens of Soviet military
went somewhere. One of actors was Russian and it was clearly seen tens Americans in Russian uniform and one Russian
among them I don’t know what it is. Maybe some childishness in a face too.
I like your photo blog a lot Alexey.
Oh, thank you.
Is anyone allowed to
post photos?
My
journal is run by the Russian laws only They don’t forbid posting photos. However, technically it is possible
to post photos on the main page by me only. Anybody else can post anything he/she wants in comments. Do you have
something?
[COLOR=#2My
favorite was your marriage commentary, and the bride in this picture:
22222][/COLOR]
Yes, I like her too
Alexey, its been a long time
since we spoke, I hope you are still there among us, and doing well.
There is a lot of water which has flowed
under our bridges.
We have an election process and you have Georgia. From my perspective they are similar. One
is attempting an invasion on another for political reasons.
I will be very interested to hear about what you
think of Putin's (Medvedev's) adventure into the Caucasus. Its interesting that the commentary made here in the
US always refers to Putin's bold move, and not Medvedev.
Is the spirit of Ivan IV alive in Putin? He is
flexing muscles and looking like Czar. We in the west are mostly lost concerning Russia, but I know something about
your history. Russia is like a woman for me: I love you, and vodka helps me forget the politics.
Greg hi
yes, I am here and I
am OK
As for Georgia I think that Saakashvili is complete scum... However, the position of Russia is really
funny. We granted citizenship all population of South Ossetia there and call ourselves peacekeepers....
Anyway the
problem is that the West started it with recognition of Kosovo, I believe... What do you think of it?
and yes,
Putin is strong and formidable
Glad to hear that you are alive
and well Alexey!
Hmmm, Kosovo. It was a big problem for Clinton and NATO. We tried to help a Muslim population
and had no understanding of the complex history of the Balkans. When we recognized Kosovo we tried to do the right
thing and, as it happened, did nothing to solve a problem. I don't know if you can blame the West, or anyone. I
also don't know if the problem in the Balkans can be solved. The Ottomans caused the problem and they are no
longer here to help us. Their ancestors are unwilling to negotiate.
I'm curious about how you think Georgia
relates to that situation. Do you think Russia's interest might be geographical and oil related? Georgia is an
important link to the Black Sea, and is between there and Baku.
What do you think of the defense missile system
in Poland?
I visited your website and it has grown a lot! Many beautiful images! A nice place to visit. I was
thinking about posting some pictures there, but your artists are much better than what I do.
Oh, why do you think
Saakashivili is scum?
No, not helping Muslims was a problem. My opinion is not
typical for Russians but I think that NATO had no choice but interfere there.
I was saying
about recognition of Kosovo. It was a direct violation of European principle of inviolability of frontiers in
Europe. It was signed by all European countries and by the US too. The US is not a European country : ) but others
have no excuse.
By the way, such independence violates logic too. If Kosovo has a right to be
independent from Serbia, any district of Kosovo where there are Serbian majority should have such a right also.
Well, first of all both nations –
Abkazs and Ossetins want to be with Russia, not Georgia, it is a fact. So it is not easy for Russia to be
indifferent since all Caucasian nations of Russia are against Georgia too and support Abkazia and South Ossetia. As
NATO didn’t want to see how Albanians were killed in Kosovo we don’t want to see how Georgians kill Abkazs and
Ossetins.
Of course, the Kremlin has interests of its own there, but it has a great pretext
for operating there.
Now it is clear that both the West and the Kremlin have extremely
hypocritical positions. Both accuse each other of doing what the are doing themselves.
It is
a top of hypocrisy to shout about violation of international laws in Kosovo and then to do the same in Georgia. The
West has not any moral rights to accuse Russia after recognition of Kosovo too. It was the West who started it.
As
for me I think nothing, but I am sure that if Russia begins to built military bases in Cuba the US wouldn’t be too
happy too.
Greg, post something and we compare : )
I saw the translations from the UN by the CNN. Of course, Georgian representatives have a good command of
English and in comparison with our old Soviet apparatchik they look much better. Buy they lie as Stalin’s guys lied
60 years ago in the UN.
It was Saakasvili’s regime who started the
war. And they started it cowardly at the first day of Olympics. Hundreds of civilians died for nothing since the
Kremlin was just glad to this provocation and it was obvious that Russia would draw in its army.
By the way, Saakashvili is a mental person too. It is strange that the
West cannot see it.
Yes, I understand, but it is difficult to understand why a major ethnic
population within a region cannot have their political freedom when political boundaries have historically been
drawn randomly and without populations in mind. In Eastern Europe it is most difficult, especially in the Balkans
(Yugoslavia and Albania).
If Europe thinks its boundaries to be inviolable, then they need only think back to
their history when the Western nations continuously shifted alliances against various Eastern powers and schemed to
manipulate much of Eastern Europe (post-Ottoman) through those alliances. There was scarcely any time for E.Europe
to establish modern States before the Soviets put an end to that. Modern Europe is only a little more
enlightened, and they are concerned more with economic unity than ethnic freedoms.
Its my thinking that W.Europe
is not that comfortable being part of NATO as a useful force to begin with.
Arbitrary boundaries will
eventually be broken, and nowhere was it more volatile than the Balkans. But, there is little risk that smaller
populations will have the resources to break from the boundaries recently
established.
What you say makes sense, if you consider "self-determination" to be a goal for a modern
political philosophy. MtnJim's point is well taken, and your explanation is enlightening. In this way of looking
at Ossetia is Russia all that hypocritical? Of course you must discount other reasons.
Int'l politics and law
are constantly shifting, and have always been so. Today's hypocrite is yesterday's hero. The US knows this
because they have been caught in their own devices many times, but the game must be played with today's cards.
That's what makes yesterday's cards so troublesome.
Ah, do you interpret such actions through the lens of a Soviet camera? Or
is the camera a modern Russian one? They are very different. Is it so hard to understand "manoeuvres
defensif"?
Yes, after some reading I think you are right.
As another thought, what do you think
of the UN?
As for my pictures, they are only good "snapshots", and not artistically rendered. I will gather some
and send them to you.
Nice to see you again!
Last edited by idesign; 09-03-2008 at 03:01 PM.
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