Correct me if I'm wrong, but
doesn't birth control mess with prolactin in girls? Or maybe I'm thinking of something else...
Those who have
followed my work may wish to note the involvement of the LH receptor. Those who have not can now note that my first
presentation to a scientific forum (in 1992) was: LH: the link between sex and the sense of
smell?
http://stke.sciencemag.org/cgi/conte...97/tw272?ct=ct
James
V. Kohl
Author/Creator: The Scent of Eros (SoE)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but
doesn't birth control mess with prolactin in girls? Or maybe I'm thinking of something else...
Birth Control Pills screw
up numerous things and have physiological effects that are still being cataloged. As to your question, I do believe
so because birth control pills operate by stimulating a false pregnancy and prolactin is one of the hormones that
changes in pregnancy.
Hope this helps.
So, wouldn't that mess with the
effectiveness of pheromone products?
The marvelous thing about
science is that you find the answer to one question, but it raises many others as you have demonstrated. As to
whether it will definitively (mess) with pheromone's ability to attract? That I can not say for certain without
experimentation~ Any volunteers?
Prolactin is associated with the repression of dopamine, which as you know is
the chemical/neurotransmitter responsible for sexual pleasure among other things. Males with high amounts
(Hyperprolactinemia Symptoms) experience a
lost of libido and every man's dread... impotence. As to the effect on females... I do believe a side affect of the
pills is that they will be harder arouse, therefore you may conclude that it will hinder the ability of pheromones
to work, if my deduction is correct.
Of course who knows pheromones may stimulate some sort of pathway that we
haven't discovered or perhaps interact with current pathways different... (rambling). I'll still with my previous
conclusion.
http://www.physorg.com/news107613674.html
University of Maryland
researchers unlock mystery of a third olfactory system
“It allows animals to detect food and determine that
food’s quality, it provides social information like sexual status about other animals, and it can warn an animal
when a predator is present. Because of the great similarities between humans and animals when it comes to the sense
of smell, the more we learn about the building blocks of the system, the more we will learn about how odors affect
our lives.”
James V. Kohl
author/creator: The Scent of Eros
Great question about
the birth control... I too, am very curious to know the answer for that.
In theory, the relatively static
level of estrogen that is maintained by oral contraceptive disables the cyclic estrogen induced luteinizing hormone
surge that is accompanied by peak monthly testosterone levels in ovulating women, and their peak interest in sex. It
is the cyclic estrogen increase, which is disabled by static estrogen levels, that is most associated with women's
increased olfactory acuity and specificity to the natural body odor of men. Simply put, kill the cycle, and kill the
sex drive of ovulating women, as many studies suggest.
James V. Kohl
author/creator: The Scent of Eros
Ok, the scientific terms
got me slighty confused but I think I might have got it.
So... are you saying that birth control DOES indeed harm
the pheromone products' efficiency?
I know women who have been through menopause who still have
plenty of sex drive. Probably not as much as before, but I wouldn't say it was "killed". I'm guessing there are
also plenty of women who have been through menopause who have no sex drive left. So, the cycle is no doubt linked to
sex drive, but perhaps not the final word?
-CAt
I gotta put my 2 cents in here.
I had a GF that was on the pill and her sex drive was too much for me. Everyday sex, I kid you not and when I
couldn't help her she had this little vibrating massager to use on herself. She couldn't get enough. BTW this was
way back without mones so I think the idea she couldn't get pregnant made her feel liberated or she was just a
psycho for sex. I think my girl was maybe a special case. More mental sex drive than hormonal.
Hmm my hormone
studies is a bit dusty... if I am correct the pill is progestrogen which makes the girl develop the muccous membrane
covering the uterus walls at extreme layers preventing the zygote from attaching itself to the walls. since LH is
the opposite of FSH estrogen makes em horny and LH makes em mommies, yeah they would be less sex drive and more
wanting to smell flowers and walk on beaches and take care of loving creatures. And I think I too am correct that in
that state if you suck on their nipples long enough like wks, they will produce milk. I remember hearing it makes
their boobs bigger since I guess the mamari glands are being filled. just the oxitocina( sorry I only remember the
spanish term) is not present to contract the mamaries but I guess with a little help they will secrete milk...wow
hormones are fun!
So from my POV, I see this as maybe a good thing. Since most girl will take pills if they are
already in a relationship, long-term that is. I know many girls do not like taking it but since they are in a
relationship with lots of sex, they don't want to make a mistake so prevent it all together with the pill. So our
mones is only pulling in girls that are not getting much sex and are fertile and horny. Sounds good to me.
Actually, I myself have a
g/f on the pills and everytime we meet she wants & gets sex. We're together for about 2 months and only once have
we met and not made love\sex...
And that was the first time we went to a movie so I wouldn't even count
that.
The `mones dO drive her crazy & she says I opened up a VERY horney & open-minded side of her.
But I'm still
curious to know what the scientific side of it all is... Are the pills (scientificaly) supposed to make it harder on
her to recieve the `mones and be affected by them?
The answer to your question is:
Yes! However, this thread is another example of why I quit posting anything besides research-oriented information.
And here, even when it started with research, discussion took it to individual opinions, which are great for the
individuals to whom they apply, and great for some people who want to discuss opinions. I'll opt out of further
discussion of opinions and continue to pursue the science.
James V. Kohl
author/creator: The Scent of
Eros
Science is great and it
gives the answers we were looking for, but sometimes it helps to add an explenation that is a bit more readable by
people who are somewhat less experienced with the scientific terms. An explenation such as the simple "Yes!" you
just gave.
People should be free to give their own opinions based on their experience - Science is great, but
although it strives to - it is not yet complete
Please don't quit giving your own experience. Specially being
it a more profound one in scientific terms
The fact that other people post their own ideas & views doesn't take
back from your replies nor theirs'... Especially taking into account that your product is one of my 3 top favorites
Anyway what I'm trying to say is: It wasn't that discussion took it to individual opinions, but rather
that the science was put into a too-sophisticated lenguage (at least in my standarts). That simple yes was - though
quite a sad thing to hear - all the answer I was lacking
Last edited by tenaciousBLADE; 09-03-2007 at 12:02 AM. Reason: spelling cleanup
Ive noticed that Essence of Alpha Male has ended
up in the Pheromone Discussion area, so we must therefore assume that is was purposefully placed here to get
attention and feedback comments from all or anyone wishing to contribute their own input regarding the material
posted up as the thread starter.
It would be obvious that if a poster did not wish to communicate in a general and normal
manner with other individuals on the forum with respect to their presentations of opinions posted then they would
have the option of keeping their statements confined to another more suitable area that may facilitate their needs
more adequately.
So it is thankfully appreciated that the God of science has thrown us a crumb of scientific
material, that hopefully we may digest.
And therefore become wise and gain an understanding of the subject which is of
an interest, and also a possable benefit to most of us.
I AM. Out of my mind .... .... ....
lol.. nicely and
interestingly put
James-
I respect you a lot, I am a huge fan of SOE, and your input to this forum has clearly been invaluable
over the years.
Having said that, I must say your response is confusing to me, because it seems dismissive and
self-righteous. I was trained as a scientist too (molecular biology)-- worked at Cold Spring Harbor Lab at one point
in fact. And I think it is absurd to believe that science does not include opinions. Is that what you were trying to
say?
Scientists are some of the most opinionated, arguementative people I've met. There is constant debate in
scientific journals based on opinion. Interpretation of data and results always involves judgment and opinion at
some level. Science is not pure or objective. Science is a human paradigm, and humans are by nature subjective.
And no less so when you are dealing with the effects of chemicals on human behvior. This is anything but
objective. Even randomized, double-blind studies are subject to interpretation. The conclusions of any research are
never fact, but are the opinion of the researcher--theoretically they are based on pure logic, but if that were the
case we wouldn't have so much debate in every field of science.
We could take this into a whole debate over
epistemology (how we know what we know), but actually I don't even think we were giving opinions anyway. We were
describing anecdotal evidence that seems to contradict the science you were sharing, and we were simply asking how
you might explain this anecdotal evidence in light of the research.
The fact is that NOT ALL women lose their
sex drive when they lose their cycle, so we were curious how that fits into the science you are trying to share. I
don't think that is expressing opinion so much as trying to understand how the sophisticated study you were sharing
fits in with other observations.
Respectfully,
-CAt
I only
thought it would be obviously expected that one should receive questions to a post he had posted on a forum of this
nature.
Otherwise the information would have been more suited
to a scientific journal ect........ Eg to be veiwed disected and understood by educated academic and or scientific
minded individuals.
I am thankfull that the Gentleman
does dispense of his valuable time to give us the information that he contributes, but i for one being just a normal
type BUFFOON would have some difficulty in understanding the material and i really appreciate the feedback given
when i see other members asking for clarification on the posted material at times., and this usually leads me to
understand the scientific wording and meanings of the original post.
Last edited by terry0400-40; 09-03-2007 at 10:38 PM. Reason: x word
I AM. Out of my mind .... .... ....
I being an uducated person can
hardly begin to imagion the Intelligence requirement that must have gone in to the creation of Scent of
Eros.
I
would say it must have been a mammoth task in just being able to convince say Stone Labs for example, or whoever, to
go so far out on a limb and actually combine two completly unknown pheromones like Androstenol and Androsterone at a
80% - 20% ratio.
Then the actual mind draining task of finding sutch a beautifull name to compliment the product is
i feel worthy of great applause.
But the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and the society of this great planet Earth has
indeed been blessed by the exceeding brilliance of this great creator.
In conclusion i can only add that we are so
privileged to actually have a being of this magnificient magnitude in our prescence and it is only natural to want
to reach out and touch the hem of his garment in sweet communion....
I AM. Out of my mind .... .... ....
I specified "individual" opinions, which are based on anecdotal
(i.e., subjective) evidence. In any case, your points are well-taken. At least you know about epistemology. When I
continue to discuss the science, people (see terry0400-40) make comments that I find offensive: "In conclusion i can
only add that we are so privileged to actually have a being of this magnificient magnitude in our prescence and it
is only natural to want to reach out and touch the hem of his garment in sweet communion...."
"Seems to contradict" is the key issue. If people
were more interested in learning about the science, they would find no contradictions--other than in their own
anecdotes. They might then try to scientifically establish why these contradictions exist (in their world, and often
in others).
A woman whose life-long experience with pheromones has conditioned her sexual
response cycle very positively, is not nearly as likely to lose her hormone-dependent sex drive. In fact, due to the
estrogen decline, the effects of testosterone may bee "unmasked" in some cases leading to increased sex drive. But,
as you can probably tell, this is a scientific explanation, not merely an individual opinion based on someone's
anecdotal experience.
And, given the ridicule I've experienced from anonymous members of this Forum, you can
also probably tell why I care less and less about what people think or say--compared to non-anonymous researchers
with whom I regularly correspond. I don't think that is so much an issue of my ego, as it is how I choose to spend
my productive time.
I don't mind spending time responding to comments like yours, but there are too many
people on this Forum who are not the least bit interested in the science of human pheromones.
James V.
Kohl
author/creator: The Scent of Eros
The there are those of us that
read every scientific post and may ask an occasional question but rarely venture an opinion because we realize we
aren't qualified. Question should always be voiced, even (especially) from us laymen. It helps us better understand
the issues and concepts. Random babble is another thing and I can understand why that would upset any serious
poster.
There are all kinds of people on any public forum. But I think the majority feel they benefit from the
scientific posts, even if we don't feel we know enough to have an opinion.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
PLZ dont be offended by me Big Guy
JV , Im just spraying up a little chalk dust talk, And i am one of those who probably are not so interested in the
hard nosed science of Pheromone research, ha ga ga, But i do enjoy the effects of applying a substance and observing
some of the magic that it can add to a scene.
But you are a good bloke i would say,
And you have your way of expressing your self, I amoungst others probably just reacting a little
as we like to see more of you, and probably un be known to us would like to share closer and some warm rapport with
you.
And i
sure can be a stupid headed little ninny sometimes as all can plainly see,
But in heart wish you well with peace and prosperity. in truth.
I AM. Out of my mind .... .... ....
First thing's first...
I totally agree. In fact I based my ownOriginally Posted by
Mtnjim:
James, I hate to mention this, but, I think Terry was giving you aQuote:
Originally Posted by jvkohl
[IMG]http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/image
s/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG]
When I continue to discuss the science, people (see terry0400-40) make
comments that I find offensive: "In conclusion i can only add that we are so privileged to actually have a being of
this magnificient magnitude in our prescence and it is only natural to want to reach out and touch the hem of his
garment in sweet communion...."
complement, in his own odd way.
reply...
on thatOriginally Posted by tenaciousBLADE
[IMG]http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/image
s/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG]
lol.. nicely and interestingly put
exact notion. So jvkohl... take it easy . I'm pretty sure we all here have the fullest respect for
your input. I know I do... furthermore, I look forward to it everytime
Second...
Science,
at leat such high level science as how pheromones work (and make no mistake of it: I honestly view this type of
science as a very high-level one), is not reachable for anyone and takes a lot of effort to learn & study (you
should know ). Some people cannot afford the time\money or patience to actually go and study that science
thoroughly. You said:
Some peoples' way of learning about scienceOriginally Posted by jvkohl
[IMG]http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/image
s/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG]
If people were more interested in learning about the science, they would find
no contradictions--other than in their own anecdotes. They might then try to scientifically establish why these
contradictions exist (in their world, and often in others).
such as this particular one, is to read and post in forums such as this. I'm sure you can understand that, right?
Including myself in that group of people, i can say, that we do learn alot from your posts... Yet it may
take some of us some time to realize or fully understand what your answers mean exactly; considering that we do not
have the jargon nor the experience with such complexed and sometimes never-before-heared (through our ears at least)
scientific lingo.
I can only speak for myself, however I don't think anyone here had any intension of insulting
you in any way
Granted, sometimes you might sound\seem\feel a little "dismissive and self-righteous"...
because it seems as if you only reply to people with the scentific background... as if the lot of us who hasn't
learned on that specific field has no right to talk with you or earn your respect\experience\answers. But my guess
is that you might think of our replies in the same manner sometimes... and that the fact that we reply in a lingo
that is a bit weak may feel insulting to you. Well please take these next few words not as an insult, but as a
compliment... `coz that is honestly the way I mean them:
Some of us venture our opinions out of curiosity. Science
is not defenent and that is exactly the reason it still exists as a developping proccess... to answer the questions
it raises up, and fill the curiosity of human nature. I can't speak for others yet I'm pretty sure most here would
agree with me (no offense anyone)... I am curious and when I don't understand an answer I keep on asking the
question and try to explain my question a bit more to the detail. The answer wasn't clear to me... up until the
very point you said "Yes". In no way should it be offensieve to you that a simple word was needed.
What I'm
trying to say, jvkohl, is simply (and sincerely):
Don't be offended by our ignorance. Just try to help us
through it instead
`Coz honestly... You're one of the most experienced people on the forums, and as such -
you're one we can learn from; but for that to happen you have to let us. So why threat to quit posting, when you
can just teach us some valuable knowledge about your field insted?
Well, I trully hope I got at
least SOME of the situation right and that my words helped in some way what so ever. `Coz otherwise I've just made
a big fool of myself
JV, people have made some respectable efforts with their words to try and make you
understand that we mean no harm. Please... make that worthwhile and keep on posting your knowledge mate
It's
all for a good edjucative pupose
I will second what you have said T Blade, i
wouldn't for one minute think you have made a fool of your self in making your sincere comments it just shows us
that you are made up of fine material. good silk nickers type stuff lol,
Oh excuse my stupid puns once again iv started up, i hope not.
Well in all honesty my lack of understanding
of the man within the scientist has caused me to react in a less than pure intent when discussing the Great One, the
Great well Established Icon @ Love- Scent, And i have exibited an amount of cheeky
banter.
But
when i had discovered to my suprise that the Great One had actually read and commented on my post, that even may
have ruffled some of his tail feathers a tad,
His human reaction
had a really softening and humbling effect upon me where i did really feel compassion within my self for him as a
human being, the one within the scientist.
I AM. Out of my mind .... .... ....
Thanks, but you must have missed the thread that caused me to drop out of most general
discussion. Here's what Bruce had to say about my
input.
http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/sh...6&postcount=38
When the anonymous
Bubba was pronounced the superior scientist, I found a different Forum where my "hard" scientific approach was
better accepted than the "soft" social science of others, like Bubba, who contribute here. It's great when people
don't misinterpret my comments and when I don't misinterpret theirs--but as we all know--it happens. I'm glad you
took the time to help explain why it happens.
James V. Kohl
author/creator: The Scent of Eros
There was a lot more to that
discussion and that one post, taken out of context, is unfair to everybody. If anybody would like to know more,
please read the entire thread: http://www.pherolibrary.com/forum/sh...546#post197546
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
Thanks - I was wondering
how to get there, and I did get to think to myself "ok... but why did he only sned me that one post?"
I am far less critical of the soft
science approach than others, and am not advocating that any contributer to this Forum become a shoe salesperson. On
the other hand, I do not wish to engage them in debate about my ego after they have repeatedly commented negatively
on my hard science approach.
“Since the null hypothesis refutation racket is “steady work” and has the
merits of an automated research grinding device, scholars who are pardonably devoted to making more money and
keeping their jobs so that they can pay off the mortgage and buy hamburgers for the wife and kids are unlikely to
contemplate with equanimity a criticism that says that their whole procedure is scientifically feckless and that
they should quit doing it and do something else. In the soft areas of psychology that might, in some cases, mean
that they should quit the academy and make an honest living selling shoes, which people of bookish temperament
naturally do not want to do.”
Full text
at:
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~pemeehl/144WhySummaries.pdf
PE Meehl has other works that attest to
the number of doctoral students he has taught, and that no one ever told him--even anonymously--that they thought
his ego was the problem.
James V. Kohl
author/creator: The Scent of Eros
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