NPA secret ingredient revealed?

[gfunk]

Hiall!

In the thread called TE chemical mone content, Oscar wrote:

According to

La Croy Chemical, the South African based manufacturer of The Edge and New Pheromone Additive, the \"secret

ingredients\" are Pheromones that they developed specifically to stimulate the Vomeronasal Organ (VNO).

The recent threads on vno the last 6 months talked about A1 being the VNO product. Do we have a match?

NPA =

-none + A1

Or as it says a mone they developed, something very similar to A1?

[Gegogi]

Probably not true, especially

since there is strong evidence the VNO is a nonfunctional organ in humans. With that said, I normally use A-1 to

mellow my NPA mixes.

[gfunk]

It does seem that Lacroy believe

the vno to be working, but despite believing or not, the above comparisons and questions remain.

Reason this

would still be quite interesting for me is to establish a more accurate dosage of A1, as I too mix this with

NPA.

How would you say the results differ when added more A1? Less or without?

[bronzie]

VNO = UFO

when a product

is promoted and they mention the vno, its just marketing.

vno is damaged during nose surgery, yet pheromones

work on women who have had nose jobs. work that out..

[Gegogi]

Probably more likely to have

taste buds in your anus than a functioning VNO.

[Sigma]

I'm not going to debate the VNO

issue, but there are a number of pheromones that the VNO is reported to react to. So the secret ingredient

could be a number of different things.... Estratetraenol, Androstedienone, AndrosTAnone, among others

[jvkohl]

I'm not going to

debate the VNO issue, but there are a number of pheromones that the VNO is reported to react to. So the

secret ingredient could be a number of different things.... Estratetraenol, Androstedienone, AndrosTAnone, among

others

I've posted several times to the "Pheromone Reseach" discussion the actual studies that

report there is no functional human VNO. There is no debate about its absence in humans, and marketers who claim

that their products work via the VNO are simply doing what marketers do--find a way to get you to spend money on

their product.

JVK

[Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)]

Tell me then, JVK, what causes the "morphine-like states" (or general euphoria) which is known to occur in women

upon exposure to androstadienone?

I suppose it is purely coincidental that it evokes one of the strongest

electrical responses from women subjects (VNO impulse), and is known to be one of the most active pheromones.



There is no doubt a strong correlation between VNO activity and physiological response!! If not the VNO directly

then what exactly??

P.S. Just wait.. You guys haven't seen anything yet!!! (i.e. A1).. Pandora's box

awaits...

[Sigma]

I've posted several

times to the "Pheromone Reseach" discussion the actual studies that report there is no functional human VNO. There

is no debate about its absence in humans, and marketers who claim that their products work via the VNO are simply

doing what marketers do--find a way to get you to spend money on their product.



JVK

calm down man.

again I wasn't

arguing for or against the fact that VNO exists. I'll leave that in the hands of the research types.

I was

just pointing out that a number of pheromones are reported to have an effect on the VNO, so we

shouldn't limit our scope and assume androstedienone is Lacroy's secret ingredient.

[jvkohl]

Tell me then, JVK, what causes the "morphine-like states" (or general euphoria) which is known to occur in

women upon exposure to androstadienone?

Which study showed this? Is your question to me based upon a

statement supported by research--or merely something somehow translated by marketers?

I suppose it is purely coincidental that it evokes one of the strongest electrical responses from women

subjects (VNO impulse), and is known to be one of the most active pheromones.

Strongest electrical

responses? Where? How does a VNO impulse influence anything anywhere?

There

is no doubt a strong correlation between VNO activity and physiological response!! If not the VNO directly then what

exactly??

Research has shown that the human VNO response (if any) is not related to the physiological

response: there's no connection that allows this, or if there is--it has not been discovered. On the other hand, my

published papers detail the entire pathway involved in the physiological response to pheromones--with no involvement

of the non-existent human VNO.

.S. Just wait.. You guys haven't seen

anything yet!!! (i.e. A1).. Pandora's box awaits...

What products are you

marketing?

JVK

[jvkohl]

I was just

pointing out that a number of pheromones are reported to have an effect on the VNO, so we shouldn't

limit our scope and assume androstedienone is Lacroy's secret ingredient.

I didn't mean to sound

argumentative, and agree that no assumption should be made. This is especially true with regard to the assumption

that there is a human VNO, which leads to the assumption that pheromones influence it. We can be somewhat sure,

however, that a "secret ingredient" completely eliminates any attempt at replicating research that might show the

"secret ingredient" is a human pheromone.

JVK

[tenaciousBLADE]

This discussion about the

VNO being a functional or non-functional organ has gone too much a`spread...

Sigma, you tell JVK to calm down,

but this thing apparently has an history to it

Here... See the post "For people in search of some

order - reguarding the VNO", at this thread to

better understand my point

[jvkohl]

P.S. Just wait.. You guys haven't seen anything yet!!! (i.e. A1).. Pandora's box

awaits...

Still waiting to hear what products you are

marketing.

JVK

[tounge]

Still waiting to hear

what products you are marketing.

JVK

Ah Laddy, it's

apt to be a long wait. When a dude tells people they ain't seen nothin yet, with regards to pheromones, he is more

than likley talking out of his ass.

[Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)]

Still waiting to hear what products you are marketing.

I'm not marketing anything,

for your information - rather, I'm engaged in some extremely interesting research, in furtherance of that which is

already known (re: the relevance of the human VNO and compounds which are exponentially more active and selective)..

As much as I would like to, I cannot shed much light on the subject due to the sensitive nature of the work I'm

doing, and the NDA which binds me to such..

All I can say at this point is that I have extensive literature in

my possession which proves the VNO to be very active and influential on human behavior - such literature is far more

current than literature you've been citing, and had been funded by a multi-million dollar research project of

international origin (unfortunately I had not been involved). However, based upon structure activity relationships

and receptor theory logic (relative to VNO), androstadienone is comparable to ginger-beer as far as activity.. This

is not conjecture, but currently a proven fact.

Sorry JVK, but you're wrong

Don't worry, I

promise to disclose the information which proves you wrong publicly just as soon as the NDA is no longer

applicable.

[Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)]

he is

more than likley talking out of his ass.

I don't talk out of my ass (but that would be a pretty damn

neat trick!!)

Rather I enjoy sparking controversies (i.e. I'm paradoxically inclined), when fully warranted.

[bronzie]

Yes, I believe he is talking

from his golo.

[jvkohl]

All I can say at this point is that I have extensive literature in my possession which proves the VNO to be very

active and influential on human behavior - such literature is far more current than literature you've been citing,

and had been funded by a multi-million dollar research project of international origin ...

Sorry JVK, but

you're wrong

Please read what I wrote, and tell us why I'm wrong. Here's what I

wrote:
______________________________________________

"Research has shown that the human VNO response (if

any) is not related to the physiological response: there's no connection that allows this, or if there is--it has

not been discovered."
__________________________________________________ ____

Your attempt to compare --

"extensive" and "more current" "literature" -- to published/cited research findings is what's wrong. It's

precisely the problem with the entire human VNO approach, which can be summed up as "We have information that you

don't have and we're not going to give it to you, so you can't possibly replicate our findings, but we're right

and you're wrong."

I'm citing peer-reviewed research and reviews of research that are available to

everyone. Are you saying Gordon Shepherd is wrong? For example:

Shepherd GM. Behaviour: smells, brains and

hormones. Nature. 2006 Jan 12;439(7073):149-51. "The traditional distinction that common odours are perceived

through the olfactory pathway and pheromones by the vomeronasal pathway is dead."

Don't worry, I promise to disclose the information which proves you wrong publicly just as soon as the

NDA is no longer applicable.

Winnifred Cutler said she would disclose her ingredients as soon as she

gets her patent--and that was more than a decade ago. In any case, you won't be proving me wrong, you can only

attempt to show that the top olfactory researchers in the world misinterpreted results that you tell us are "real".

Are you saying Linda Buck is wrong? See also:

Liberles SD, Buck LB. A second class of chemosensory receptors

in the olfactory epithelium. Nature. 2006
"Collectively, these findings indicate that chemical signals that are

likely to function as pheromones are processed by the main olfactory system of mammals. Accordingly, a human

vomeronasal organ is not required." Downloaded July 31, 2006 from

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ature05066.pdf

Co-author (above) Linda

Buck is a 2004 Nobel Laureate (Physiology and/or Medicine).

You say you have far more current literature.

The citations here are from Jan 2006 and July 2006. That makes it hard for me to believe you have anything more

current -- unless it has not been peer-reviewed. And if your information has not been subjected to peer-review, you

can say anything you want--except that your literature can be used to show that anyone else is wrong. It can't even

be used to show you are right--until it has been subjected to peer-review.



JVK

[jvkohl]

"In humans, the VNO does not exist, at least not in its complexity. Although developed in early fetal life, all

structures except the vomeronasal duct undergo

regression."

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB...&filename=.pdf

Previously posted to "Pheromone

Research"

JVK

[Mr. Happy]

Probably more

likely to have taste buds in your anus than a functioning VNO.

If you ever have taste buds in your anus I

hope you know the person and get along with them really well.

Otherwise it will be like that scene in

Borat in the hotel room. You know the one: it begins with Borat screaming, "You make hand party with with

Pamela!?!?"