Unattractive or intimidating?

[MagicPower]

Sometimes, a pheromone product makes girls appear completely uninterested in me

(the invisible man effect).

When girls pay no attention to me or even

walk away from me, it can mean two things.
It could mean that I don't

appear masculine enough, i.e. women don't consider me a prospective mate. If that were the case, I would need to

try a more sexual-type pheromone.
On the other hand, it could mean that I

appear too masculine and threatening. If that were the case, I should use a more fiendly-type

pheromone.

How can I tell which way it is? What signs should I look out

for, in order to be able to tell whether a pheromone product makes me appear not masculine enough or too

masculine?

[xvs]

How can I tell which

way it is? What signs should I look out for, in order to be able to tell whether a pheromone product makes me appear

not masculine enough or too masculine?

Generally, any products with androstenone will make you seem

more dominant. Too much will make you seem intimidating.

The only product I've found with the opposite

effect -- making you seem friendly and approachable -- is WAGG (and that's the product I use because anything with

androstenone totally scares 'em off. I'm intimidating enough as it is!).

So try a product with androstenone

in it, like Alpha-7, and try WAGG for the opposite effect to see what works for you.

[Bruce]

Magic,

There is tremendous magic

in a smile. People want to have a good time as a rule, and being with someone who looks like they are having a good

time works right along with that goal. A little WAGG, a little LT maybe, and a dab of good will.... you can't go

wrong.

Peace and Love,
B

[MagicPower]

Generally, any products with androstenone will make you seem more dominant. Too much

will make you seem intimidating.

So that would have been the case at the

party where I was last week?
There were 12 people (4M, 8F). I was wearing Alter

Ego. The two alpha females kept flirting with me throughout the evening, and even playfully competing for me,

whereas a lovely shy girl whom I was actually more interested in, wouldn't even look me in the eye, and once when I

was standing next to her, she actually walked farther away.
Would you say that's

a sign of too much -none?

The only product I've found with the

opposite effect -- making you seem friendly and approachable -- is WAGG

I

don't have WAGG but I just got WAGG-N and tried it once and it didn't seem to do anything. Gotta try

again.

So try a product with androstenone in it, like Alpha-7

I've been using Primal Instinct a lot, and the funny thing is that I

have never noticed any reactions whatsoever.
Thanks for the reply anyway, I'll

go on experimenting with different mones.

There is tremendous

magic in a smile. People want to have a good time as a rule, and being with someone who looks like they are having a

good time works right along with that goal.

Yeah, right. You forgot to

add: bring her flowers and take her dancing.

[maxo-texas]

Wagg-N gave me one of my two

negative self hits.

Otherwise, your post sounds like a classic -none overdose post. Maybe your natural -none is

already high.

Bruce has excellent advice.
1) Smile

I'd also say
2) Square off
3) Keep good posture.
4)

Know and use their names.
5) Find appropriate reasons to touch them in safe places (hands, shoulder).

[MagicPower]

Wagg-N gave

me one of my two negative self hits.

Pardon my ignorance but what does "negative self hits" mean?

[smooth312]

a dab of good

will...

Hey Bruce, I couldn't find "good will" on the main site, do you have a link where I can get

some?

Thanks.

^to the OP, it sounds to me you may be overdosing on the -none.

[MagicPower]

it sounds to me you may be overdosing on the

-none.

All right, everything's

logical so far. Reading the above, I would agree myself that it's a pretty clear case of -none OD. (Except that

getting it from 2 drops of AE seems quite an achievement.)

But now,

let's make things complicated. Not that I expect anybody to solve my problems for me, but this might be an

intellectual challenge for you.

The above-expressed assumption that I

seem to be naturally high on -none is in grave contradiction with my long-time experiences. You see, I can get

pretty much any girl agree to go out on a date (that is without any 'mones), but I can't get them into bed

afterwards. Sometimes they look outright surprised when I suggest after a date that we'd go over to my place or

something. You can imagine how offending it is when I've spent hours with a girl who appears to be eating from my

palm, and then suddenly she has this question written all over her face: "Where on Earth did you get the idea that I

would have SEX with you?" And in spite of that, they're quite willing to date me again, and again, and again. In

short, I'm a typical case of a "nice guy" women like to be with and talk to, but won't consider as a sex

partner.
Different women have also made it clear that they don't consider

me physically threatening. For instance, they've been very surprised learning that I do martial arts, and said they

would have never expected that.

I think that would suggest I'm

naturally high on -nol and low on -none, wouldn't it?

Experts, any

idea how to explain that contradiction?

Bruce, just to save your time,

I do smile. Believe it or not, I also brush my teeth, and I don't fart in the presence of other people. So let's

skip that part and get to the point.

[ThatGuy]

The above-expressed assumption that I seem to be

naturally high on -none is in grave contradiction with my long-time experiences. You see, I can get pretty much any

girl agree to go out on a date (that is without any 'mones), but I can't get them into bed afterwards. Sometimes

they look outright surprised when I suggest after a date that we'd go over to my place or something. You can

imagine how offending it is when I've spent hours with a girl who appears to be eating from my palm, and then

suddenly she has this question written all over her face: "Where on Earth did you get the idea that I would have SEX

with you?" And in spite of that, they're quite willing to date me again, and again, and again. In short, I'm a

typical case of a "nice guy" women like to be with and talk to, but won't consider as a sex

partner.
Different women have also made it clear that they don't consider me

physically threatening. For instance, they've been very surprised learning that I do martial arts, and said they

would have never expected that.

I think that would suggest I'm naturally high

on -nol and low on -none, wouldn't it?

Experts, any idea how to explain that

contradiction?

Bruce, just to save your time, I do smile. Believe it or not, I

also brush my teeth, and I don't fart in the presence of other people. So let's skip that part and get to the

point.

That problem has probably nothing to do with mones or your own

natural mone output.
It is more likely your own behavior that causes it.

I have been on dates were I

had great rapport with the girl where we both had a great time but I got the same results as you did when I tried to

bring it to a physical level.

The solutions is kino – i.e. touching the girl very early and gradually

escalate the touching in a natural way. Going from talking for two hours without any touching to suddenly suggesting

sex is simply to abrupt for many women.

[Mak]

You see, I can get pretty much any girl agree to go

out on a date (that is without any 'mones), but I can't get them into bed afterwards. Sometimes they look outright

surprised when I suggest after a date that we'd go over to my place or something. You can imagine how offending it

is when I've spent hours with a girl who appears to be eating from my palm, and then suddenly she has this question

written all over her face: "Where on Earth did you get the idea that I would have SEX with you?" And in spite of

that, they're quite willing to date me again, and again, and again.

Magic, that sounds like needing a very little steering.

Once you meet a girl on such a date, execuse yourself

in the first 5 mins, and go apply nomore than 1 drop of PI, or even half drop to your neck.

That may tip the

evening for you, from 'nice guy' to 'desired'.

[maxo-texas]

Negative self hit.

I use

this to describe when putting a mone on makes me feel bad.

I have a pretty tight reign on my emotions most the

time and I can usually recognize when they are behaving wierdly without any logical reason. If I have unexplainable

strong bad feelings when using a mone, I think of that mone as negatively affecting me.

They are right about the

touching-- starting it early starts chemical and mental processes in the girl. Think about yourself this

way.

1)
A girl you have gotten comfortable with and laughed with for a few hours leans towards you.. and when

you lean toward her she kisses you.

2)
A pretty girl that you think is kinda hot after chatting with you for a

few minutes and you are thinking about asking her out and she suddenly leans forward and starts kissing you.

3)


A pretty girl walking past you that you know nothing about suddenly veers over and starts kissiing

you.

Probably reactions.
1) You like it.
2) You may not feel comfortable.
3) You will probably violently

withdraw and feel suspicious and wonder what the hell is going on. Is someone trying to rob you. Etc.

[terry0400-40]

All right, everything's logical so far. Reading the

above, I would agree myself that it's a pretty clear case of -none OD. (Except that getting it from 2 drops of AE

seems quite an achievement.)

But now, let's make things complicated.

Not that I expect anybody to solve my problems for me, but this might be an intellectual challenge for

you.

The above-expressed assumption that I seem to be naturally high on

-none is in grave contradiction with my long-time experiences. You see, I can get pretty much any girl agree to go

out on a date (that is without any 'mones), but I can't get them into bed afterwards. Sometimes they look outright

surprised when I suggest after a date that we'd go over to my place or something. You can imagine how offending it

is when I've spent hours with a girl who appears to be eating from my palm, and then suddenly she has this question

written all over her face: "Where on Earth did you get the idea that I would have SEX with you?" And in spite of

that, they're quite willing to date me again, and again, and again. In short, I'm a typical case of a "nice guy"

women like to be with and talk to, but won't consider as a sex

partner.
Different women have also made it clear that they don't consider

me physically threatening. For instance, they've been very surprised learning that I do martial arts, and said they

would have never expected that.

I think that would suggest I'm

naturally high on -nol and low on -none, wouldn't it?

Experts, any

idea how to explain that contradiction?

Bruce, just to save your time,

I do smile. Believe it or not, I also brush my teeth, and I don't fart in the presence of other people. So let's

skip that part and get to the point.

MAGIC hi nice guy, being nice is a most wonderfull quality, so good on you, and i agree it

will not necessarily get you wasted i mean that in the very best of ways.But it can cause a

real lot of wasted downtime, so the best strategy would be to convey the message from the outset that you are a nice

guy ok great but a sexy nice guy or a sexy hot nice guy,

you will not be wasting time this way, and it will lead to more getting wasted wantonly wasted

we are dealing with numbers and percentages now as some girls do and some girls dont

and some girls just wont, and some girls just love it and there are

some girls who cant get enough, SO Slap a good mix on and go and do

your thing and be noticed, and just who are you You sexy hot nice guy.

hit hit HIT hit HIT hit HIT on them. Winers play the numbers

Thats the name of the game. GO 4 WHAT U WANT , life is so simple and

time is sliping slowly away.

[MagicPower]

That problem has probably nothing to do with mones or your own natural mone

output. It is more likely your own behavior that causes it.

Guess so.

Thanks.

A pretty girl walking past you that you know

nothing about suddenly veers over and starts kissiing

you.
[---]
3) You will probably violently

withdraw and feel suspicious and wonder what the hell is going on.

So

sorry to disappoint you, but I really wouldn't mind. The other two alternatives would be really nice, too, and if

you asked me which one of the three I'd prefer, it would be rather hard to choose.

:-)
Of course, it is quite clear to me that women are dirrerent.

that sounds like needing a very little steering. Once you meet a girl on such a

date, execuse yourself [---] and go apply nomore than 1 drop of PI[---].
That may tip the

evening for you, from 'nice guy' to 'desired'.

Sounds

like a good idea. Thanks a lot, I'll try it.

Btw, this sounds interesting to

discuss further. Has anybody else noticed any 'mones that make women more comfortable with the idea of being

touched, or even actually wishing you'd touch them?

[d3kst3r]

My theory is that you need to at

least mirror the mones you're wearing otherwise they'll have a negative affect.

If you wear lots of -none but

act extremely timid and shy then people are going to be extremely hostile. If you act dominant however then you'll

get respect from it.

[Gegogi]

My theory is that you need

to at least mirror the mones you're wearing otherwise they'll have a negative affect.

If you wear lots of -none

but act extremely timid and shy then people are going to be extremely hostile. If you act dominant however then

you'll get respect from it.

I agree, for best results, your words, action and appearance should match

and/or complement your pheromone signature. Nevertheless, I have not once experienced hostily or even indifference

while wearing 'none products and going stealth. I can basically turn off my personality, assume buddha face and

almost melt into the wall. In said state I'm oft perceived as shy or even unfriendly. Also, I don't find it

necessary to be cocky, overbearing or obviously social dominant to be treated with respect. However you can project

an alpha aural by how you carry yourself, use your eyes and even manner of dress. The truth is, it's not a single

aspect of behavior but the sum of many little things than help complement your pheromone signature project the image

you desire.

[MagicPower]

you need to at least mirror the mones you're wearing [---]. If you wear

lots of -none but act extremely timid and shy then people are going to be extremely

hostile.

I agree, but I don't really meet much hostility. My problem is that I

don't seem to be able to interpret people's reactions correctly. I can't figure out whether I should try to

appear more masculine or less masculine.

[terry0400-40]

I agree, but I don't really meet much hostility. My problem is that I

don't seem to be able to interpret people's reactions correctly. I can't figure out whether I should try to

appear more masculine or less masculine.

Fu*k other

peoples reactions, just be what you are naturally and please yourself, dont worry the rest of the world will fall

into line, the only positive way you can change is to become more loving as a person, because just because people

dont recognise the spiritual side of themselves doesent stop it from manifesting very real effects in their lives,

pheromones or no pheromones, pheromones will have an effect on you the wearer just wear that one or combo that makes

you feel good and then it will enhance your signiture which is unique to you and no one else anyway and you will

attract that what you have an affinity for, in life we are never going to be attractive to every one, except maby

for the wrong reasons like money or power or fame or looks even still it is of no lasting advantage to you in the

building of the real man which is not an instant thing but takes a lifetime of refining so all you can really do is

just relax and be who you are as far as your chemistry is, enhanced or otherwise, as other personalities will still

have their gut feelings to what is real in their perceptions and a none genuine person or a person who is acting is

easily discerned on different levels either subconscious or conscious, A person can never perpetuate or sustain that

which is not true and they will only become twisted and sick inside when they insist on being false and this always

manifests over time in sickness and disease of mind or body. So as i said find out what is a feel good combo that

you really like to wear and go for it and relax with your own level of masculinity whatever it may be, as it is

different 4 all of us, and dress in a manner that pleases you and then you will have better chances of attracting

that which you have an affinity for and vice versa, its so simple.

[Gegogi]

I can't figure out

whether I should try to appear more masculine or less masculine.

I agree with Terry, be yourself. When I

was a young 'n dumb college student I was insecure and worried if I was masculine enough. In hindsight I realize

this was a total waste of time. If you try to be something your aren't you appear insincere, a mere poser. Once I

decided "damn the torpedos" and let it all hang out, I did much better. Most people accepted me at face value and

that was that. No loss at the few that didn't accept me. The most important personality trait is confidence and

security in who you are, and it really shows if you lack it. Be the real deal.

[terry0400-40]

I agree with Terry, be yourself. When I was a young 'n dumb college student I was insecure and

worried if I was masculine enough. In hindsight I realize this was a total waste of time. If you try to be something

your aren't you appear insincere, a mere poser. Once I decided "damn the torpedos" and let it all hang out, I did

much better. Most people accepted me at face value and that was that. No loss at the few that didn't accept me. The

most important personality trait is confidence and security in who you are, and it really shows if you lack it. Be

the real deal.

Listen to Gegogi because he has been there, i really never had

a formal schooling so he really knows where your at, especially as he knows also the edict of the learning

facilities and also the social structure and cultural aspects regarding life and culture of the younger man ect.

Also have a look at some of Slickracers posts and or threads as he is a young man who really knows how to select

pheromone products that suit him and that he enjoys wearing for the effects they display upon him first and formost,

Relax and keep up posting because we all wish you success in your endevours and we are here 4 you Magic Power.

[MagicPower]

Fu*k other peoples reactions, just be what you are

naturally and please yourself, dont worry the rest of the world will fall into

line,

Don't give me such crap. For the fortunate few who can naturally

attract women, it's easy to laugh at those to whom the nature hasn't given that gift. For us the common mortals,

the statements like the one quoted are an outright insult. If there is one surefire way to devastating failure with

women, it's by acting naturally and speaking honestly.
If all that it takes is to be

yourself, why do you think are all those people buying pheromones? Actually... I wonder what are YOU doing in a

pheromone forum? :-))

[Gegogi]

Ease up their Mr. Magic, you're

missing the point. Believe me, show me a poser and I'll show you an unhappy man, and a man out of touch with

himself and those around him. Assuming your natural state of being means setting goals you really want, striving

towards them and becoming the best that you can be. Out of shape? Eat organic and hit the gym for an hour daily. Got

butt breath? Practice dental hygiene. Look like a geek? Drag along a fashion conscious friend when shopping. Have

difficulty speaking in front of groups? Join toastmasters. Look like a guy with no future? Major in something you

love and rise to the top of your professsion.

Women are attracted to guys that are confident in themselves

and have a future. You have to project that in spades. Trying to be more or less masculine is a fast ticket to

poserland.

I'm an effeminate Asian male: slight of build, long fingernails, metromale dresser and work as a

musician. Inside I'm tough as hell, driven and goal oriented, but outside I appear delicate, gentle and somewhat

feminine. I gave up long ago trying to appear more macho. It just didn't work and made me appear insincere (fake

voice, swagger, etc.). Women can spot a poser in a nanosecond. However, once I exorcise my demons 'n got my ducks

in a row, the poonani poured in. And this was long before I used pheromones. Honestly, lots of women are attracted

to effeminate guys. Oceans of them. I didn't find that out until I said hell with it and decided to be myself--the

best self I could be--and focused on doing what I loved--music.

[belgareth]

Gegogi and Terry are right, in

my opnion. Once you learn to be yourself and stop worrying about what others think you'll have better results. You

don't even need all the pieces. I'm a geek professionally, dress very casually and don't give a damn about style

but women are not any real problem for me. Even married I have opportunities regularly with very attractive women.

In part, its because I am not trying to attract them. Just having fun and enjoying life.

I should add that while

I agree with the general terms Gegogi used to define an alpha male I disagree on particular people he mentioned. But

that is probably more an issue of our own mindsets than anything else.

[Marlboro_man]

Magic,
Please don't be

offended by this but I have read this whole thread several times and here is what I have concluded.
1)You over

value the power of mones. They aren't magic (sorry for the word choice) rather they are part of the equation, as

well as kino, smile, and cofidence are.
2) Girls tend to be more relationship driven while men tend to be more sex

driven, especially when younger. So basically your asking girls to have sex with you when they don't feel that your

a good long term mate. Reverse the rules: what if a girl made you date her for 2 years without so much as a kiss?

You would probably run too!
3)You seem to be trying to follow the footsteps of someone like david D (who I learned

a ton from) but your not getting the whole picture. He will tell you that he can't pick up every woman he meets.

Your inner game doesn't seem to be there, and that's what everyone is saying in their own way. The reason everyone

is telling you to be yourself is because the MOST IMPORTANT THING TO ATTRACT A WOMAN IS CONFIDENCE!!!, and you

don't seem to be showing it. I have been down this road before so I understand. You are trying to be someone you

are not and therefore it causes you to fail with the ladies on dates. It's easy to get numbers and stuff by

"acting" confident but it takes "being" confident to get more. Confidence means being your self regardless of what

others think, plain and simple!!!!

In conclusion take some time and get things right in your own head. I used to

be totally different than who I am now. I have changed to someone I wanted to become by reframing and focussing on

what I wanted to be. I can tell you it's not a fun process and you probably will lose most of your friends, so make

sure it's what you want. People do this all this time for example someone who was in the drug scene heavy decides

to go clean. In the process their personality changes, as well as their habbit's and friends. I wasn't comfortable

in my own skin before but now I AM. Simply put: Until you love yourself, don't expect any one else to love ya. I

hope you read this with an open mind, cause I can tell ya I have walked miles in your shoes, but in the end it was

all worth it.

[Marlboro_man]

Also, I forgot to say this

but it's real important. I don't always agree with what everyone on this site says but I always read it with an

open mind. I can tell you Bruce, Bel, and Oscar are very intelligent people and they are definitely worth listening

to, they don't talk just to talk, they think about what they say and care what they write. I can also say there

are many others on this forum (way too many to mention) that have tons of wisdom to share with you! Take Terry and

Geoggi for example in this post. I don't agree with every word they said, but they make some damn good points.

Best of luck to ya with this whole thing.

[terry0400-40]

Don't give me such crap. For the fortunate few

who can naturally attract women, it's easy to laugh at those to whom the nature hasn't given that gift. For us the

common mortals, the statements like the one quoted are an outright insult. If there is one surefire way to

devastating failure with women, it's by acting naturally and speaking honestly.
If all

that it takes is to be yourself, why do you think are all those people buying pheromones? Actually... I wonder what

are YOU doing in a pheromone forum? :-))

Hi

magic, i really started out to see if there were any products around that could be good enough to withstand the

scrutiny of direct sales like face to face. and good enough to get repeat sales, unfortunately there are no magic

bullets around, erum khaaaaar excuse me just clearing my throat,as yet well not amoungst my

30 different products at least ha ha, so i havent found anything that i could resell like face to face because the

effects of pheromones are suttle and there are many people who are looking for smack bang her right now instant

results, besides Magic i am personally really only interested mainly in the social aspects of the use of pheromones,

and also experimentation of the sexual woman attraction side which is very interesting as excellent results can be

obtained with the right product application and under the correct conditions to match, Phero Masters usually serve

an apprenticeship so to speak before becoming sutch and i can assure you they certainly have to develope patience

and observation skills, Now let me tell you one thing, Most women love getting attention from confident, interesting

presentable gentlemen, preferably emmiting a nice exotic fragrance, and an intelligent woman can discern what is

true and what is crap in a mans presentation, they are usually good at discerning these things, However there are

always some women around who will ALLOW themselves to fall for anything, as sometimes they are desperate for a mans

company and or love, I know one thing for sure and that is a man does not have to pretend in order to attract a

girl, I have had so much attention from women when i have been homeless and walking the streets barefoot, i found

that so many just wanted to take me home and use me all up, there really is no accounting for taste. BUT we here are

only offering advice, we dont get paid for it, but some of us have been around the block a few times and we have

learned a few things on the way because we have learned by our mistakes TRIAL AND ERROR, SO drink

free of the waters of knowledge we have to offer, the choice is yours.And whatever we wish you the

utmost success in your endevours.

[bronzie]

Great post terry, I dont think

anyone has ever summed this subject better than you, on this forum. Good stuff terry..

[terry0400-40]

Great post terry, I dont think anyone has ever summed this subject better than you, on this forum.

Good stuff terry..

Your very modest Bronzie, I have learned so much from you

Pheromasters and your advice has saved me wasting my money on lots of crap that is always around, it is a bit of an

honour really when i get an applaud from guys like yourself and Gegogi and Belgareth. I myself have only had around

100 different women and girls that i have picked up and scored with so i really am not so experienced when compared

with a pick up artist, but i can honestly say i would be just as happy had it only been a few, because when it all

boils down, TRUE LASTING ENDURING HAPPINESS CAN BE FOUND IN GIVING TRUE LOVE TO ONE WOMAN. what more does a

man need. AS its ( ALL IN THE MIND ) Nevertheless we have are toys our fun our associations and best

of all we have a friend or two.

[bronzie]

[FONT=Comic

Sans MS][COLOR=navy] I myself have only had around 100 different women and girls that i have picked up and scored

with so i really am not so experienced when compared with a pick up artist,

terry your older than me,

but 100 girls is pretty good by any persons standard i think, im aware that you have been hitched a few times too,

so you do have alot of experience under your belt with the fairer sex! hahaha, not saying that in the literal

sense!

maybe we should create a whole new post, seduction according to terry, or terry's method?

[terry0400-40]

terry your older than me, but 100 girls is pretty good by any persons standard i think, im aware

that you have been hitched a few times too, so you do have alot of experience under your belt with the fairer sex!

hahaha, not saying that in the literal sense!

maybe we should create a whole new post, seduction according to

terry, or terry's method?

Under the belt ha ha, I never had much

luck when i just wanted to go out and fu*K a girl i usually just went home and had a spill ha ha. The times that i

always seemed to get sucess was when i sort of just see a girl somewhere and she just took my breath away and i ha

ha just fell for them as i was in their power and all i really wanted to do was really kiss them and hold them ever

so close with my heart beating so fast and my head spinning, it was when i ended up in this condition that i always

got the girl and they never ever settled for my kisses or cuddles which i was more than happy with as i was in LOVE

ha ha Those were the days, But I am in love with my wife right now and have been for over 10 years and our love is

always exciting fresh and above all else TRUE. REALLY it just keeps on getting better and that is how it is

meant to be.TRUE

[Mohammad Shah]

Your very modest Bronzie, I have learned so much from you

Pheromasters and your advice has saved me wasting my money on lots of crap that is always around, it is a bit of an

honour really when i get an applaud from guys like yourself and Gegogi and Belgareth. I myself have only had around

100 different women and girls that i have picked up and scored with so i really am not so experienced when compared

with a pick up artist, but i can honestly say i would be just as happy had it only been a few, because when it all

boils down, TRUE LASTING ENDURING HAPPINESS CAN BE FOUND IN GIVING TRUE LOVE TO ONE WOMAN. what more does a

man need. AS its ( ALL IN THE MIND ) Nevertheless we have are toys our fun our associations and best

of all we have a friend or two.

wow!! 100 girls huh!

Terry!! Some people are REALLY

blessed!!