Unfaithful Newbie Experiment

[sep]

K, I just got

my 1st ever delivery today: TE, SOE, Chikara, all in gel packs. As I mentioned in another forum, I don't have any

faith in these la-la-land products, but I'm open enough to put my bias aside and try them and report the results.

In fact, tonights halloween parties will be an excellent opportunity.

Now here's another observation: I keep

reading stories on this forum saying how "this girl looked at me" or "she came to the classroom and sat next to me"

or "she looked confused as soon as she came by", etc, and report that as evidence of the product working. Here's my

unscientific explanation:

The confused thing is the best part... how can you tell she was confused? And if she

was, how do you know that has something to do with you?? The other examples, I'm just guessing that they happen

everyday but the person with the mones realizes them at that particular time because either (1) the mones have given

him a psychological boost of confidence and therefore he's much more aware of this stuff or (2) they're just

regular meaningless actions that the person with the mones THINKS is related to him, but most probably is not.



Any comments?

[oscar]

sep,

Sure there's the

potential problem of "self-fulfilling prophesy", in that if you're consciously LOOKING for out of the ordinary

stuff you're especially likely to notice normal or random occurrences that you might mistakenly attribute to

pheromones.
But there's also the side effect that when you ARE striving to be especially conscious of those

things going on around you, you'll often appear to look creepy or predatory to others. So to some extent these

cancel each other out.

So a good starting method is to try applying a

reasonable amount of ONE product over

the course of several days to a week (or more) to try to rule out those "happenstances" that are often erroneously

perceived as "hits".
To avoid skewing results, just try to forget that you're wearing the stuff. (Not real easy

the first couple of days! )
Then do your evaluations based on use over a period of time.

Oscar

[Superman]

The other examples,

I'm just guessing that they happen everyday but the person with the mones realizes them at that particular time

because either (1) the mones have given him a psychological boost of confidence and therefore he's much more aware

of this stuff or (2) they're just regular meaningless actions that the person with the mones THINKS is related to

him, but most probably is not.

Any comments?

I'll just say that I'm seeing lots of differences in

other people's behaviour with the mones on.
Lots of flushing faces for one. Or women rubbing themselves in front

of you. It isn't something I see often at least. I don't know you perhaps you see this stuff regularly.

[sep]

k Oscar, thanks for your advice. i

forgot to ask 1 question: how long does a mone last on the skin? Until I wash it off? Or does it just vaporize?

[Mtnjim]

Sure there's the potential

problem of "self-fulfilling prophesy", in that if you're consciously LOOKING for out of the ordinary stuff you're

especially likely to notice normal or random occurrences that you might mistakenly attribute to

pheromones.

This was the whole point of my

post.

[Gegogi]

Pheromones are scienfically

proven to be part of human communication, social ritual and mating. However they are only one component of a much

larger system of intertwined events, traits and interactions. Sprinkling a little NPA or SOE on your loser hide

won't a stud make. A charismatic personality, new sports car or thick wallet will certainly be more effective as a

babe trap. Nevertheless, they can impart a nice edge to your game given some intelligent use, perhaps even make you

a little bigger than life if you play the part well.

[tounge]

As I mentioned in

another forum



Any comments?

Yes, I have a comments. Reading too much

from other forums could be detrimental to your pheromone reality.

Some people spray on mones and magicaly

they turn from the Micky D's mop up man, into a secret agent that nobody can take their eyes off of. Suddenly thge

world revolves around them. Everytime someone sneezes, belchs or farts, it just had to be because of the pheromones

they were wearing.

Pheromones are subtle, and the patient person will benefit the most. Stick around here and

you'll get a more unbiased opinion on the realism of mones. There are a few BSer's who pop in from time to time,

but there are quite a few more intelligent people, as you have just seen here, who will set you straight.

[sep]

Everytime

someone sneezes, belchs or farts, it just had to be because of the pheromones they were wearing.

... set you

straight.

Haha, nice stuff. Loved the fart part! Yeah, I'm totally with you on the BSers, so many funny

stories!

Halloween has ended, and so has my first night with mones. The setting:

1) 1/3 TE gel pack, applied

to wrist, bit to forearm, and neck
2) 1/2 Chikara gel pack (the news ones... my god they're tiny!) applied to

forearm and chest and a bit on the wrist
3) Covered the forearm with a bit of cologne

4) 2 scenes: 1 at a pub

with my friends, and after 2-3 hours at a friend's apartment, where everyone was a friend

THE RESULTS:

1)

Nada
2) Nothing
3) Zilch

Detail: sp basically nothing out of the ordinary happened. When I paid the entrance to

the pub, the girl collecting the $ was veeeery nice and warm, but a) I can't make a conclusion based on 1 case,

especially when it's nothing out of the ordinary and b) I later saw that she's also very warm to everyone else as

well

The rest of the night went normal. People were warm and friendly and talkative but that's how it always is.

I didn't see anyone getting more physical or just suddenly becoming a lot more friendlier that they used to

be.

So that's it. Test1 result: the above combination of pheros on day1 does not work. Still too early to draw

any big conclusions. Will test a similar combo tomorrow in class before I dismiss it, unless someone has a better

suggestion.

So no one answered: how long does it take before the pheros wear off from the skin?

[sep]

Pheromones are

scienfically proven to be part of human communication, social ritual and mating. However they are only one component

of a much larger system of intertwined events, traits and interactions. Sprinkling a little NPA or SOE on your loser

hide won't a stud make.

I'm not worried about that part. I think I have my "game" even without the

pheros.

As for the scientifically proven part, I'd really like to see the scientific studies if you can show

them to me. I'm not talking about natural human pheromones, I'm talking about these Chikara and SOE stuff,

externally applied.

I can show you scientific studies that deoderants have "killed" the pheros which are released

naturally from your armpits, and if I'm not mistaking, that's where most of them are supposed to come out

from.

Again, I'm open to studying these scientific proofs. And don't say 'you heard of it' or don't send me

a link that takes me to Bob Joe's daily forum. Nothing scientific about those two.

[Superman]

Just trying something once

doesn't show you anything. You've got to stick at it for a few days at least.

[live4themusic]

Let's be completely

honest here, it's completely possible that even if pheromones do work, you might use them for the rest of

your life without ever seeing results that knock you off your ass and make you go "Wow, that was because of the

pheromones."

Heck maybe everyone in your area is aromatically impaired, or maybe some chemical in the air where

you live blocks the dispersal of pheromones. There are any number of conditions which can complicate the process of

gaugeing reactions.

I've been using pheromones for about 3-4 months. In that time I've had very few eye-opening

results. Even when something crazy happens, I believe it's possible that it was unrelated to pheromone use.

But

even still, I've been slowly growing more confident in the effectiveness of the pheromones. Scientifically I guess

it's impossible to prove that they work for any one given individual. I guess the only thing you can do is

keep trying them. Eventually, you might see something that you're not sure would have happened without the

pheromones. From there, you have to figure things out for yourself.

I have yet to have a woman knock me over the

head and drag me back to her cave, and if that's what you're looking for, you might be out of luck.

[sep]

No I'm not looking for someone to

jump over me and start humping me in public!! But I am looking for results. I just can't imagine why anyone would

pay all this money without being sure that he/she is getting results.

Yes, I know wearing them once can't lend

to any conclusions. Never said test1 failed = mones failed. Test 2 is coming up today.

Now, can someone please

tell me how long do mones stay with each application?

[Superman]

I believe it's claimed to be

around 8 to 12 hours. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Myself, I see effects up to at least 4 hours.

[koolking1]

depends on

several factors. Put it on your clothes and it lasts as long as your clothes last, washing removes most but not

all, dry cleaning does the job best. Put it on your skin and it lasts about 12 hours but diminishes over time,

you'll have to trust your own nose on that one, normal showering with soap reduces it considerably but may still be

there, using anti-bacterial soap and it will be gone, have heard that alcohol works well too if you want to get rid

of it.

Your negativity won't earn you a lot of friends on the board but there are folks who agree with

you, that's for sure. I've been using mones since 1999 and have had various successes with them. I am not

familiar with the products you are currently using. One experiment you might try would be to put some mones on one

arm and none on the other, then cover with your cologne, ask a female who trusts you already to smell both your arms

and give her opinion which one smells better to her (explain in advance that your are experimenting with just

somewhat different versions of the cologne). Then, tell us the results of that experiment.

[Superman]

On the forums I read you can

use a polysorbate shampoo to get rid of them too.

[belgareth]

Scepticism is a good thing,

hopefully you can be both sceptical and open minded at the same time. It took a long time for me to convince myself

that mones really worked.

A good place to start for scientific information is at JVKohl's site. He created one

of the products and continues to do research into pheromone science. Try here:

http:///ScientificEvidence.html.

Since most products contain mainly the same pheromones generic evidence regarding any specific mone serves as an

indicator that a given product has at least some functional component. Perhaps not all are proven but some will be.

Remember that this is a new field and there are a lot of unknowns yet. Also that your body chemistry impacts the

effacy of pheromones as does your attitude and so on.

Mixing to start out is not going to get you as reliable

results as if you went about it methodicoly. Start with a single product and work with that over a period of days.

Increase the dosage every few days until you see some results, good or bad. Once you have established that a product

does or does not work for you, try something else. You've purchased several items so have the tools to experiment

for a while.

The last thing is that friends are the worst place to experiment because they already have you

pidgeon holed and changing how they already see you will take a lot more time than working with people you don't

know.

[sep]

King, I'm not being negative, I'm

just critiquing by experiments. I fail to see how that's going to make people not like me on this forum. I'm just

reporting observations and making my own conclusions based on them.
As for covering one arm with mones and asking a

female friend to smell both arms and decide which one smells nicer, a cologne could do the same thing. It might just

smell good. doesn't say anything about the effectiveness of mones.

Now on to Test2
Test2
Setting: Morning

class (seminar) with 20 other students, one chick who always sits beside me and has never really shown any interest.

7 other girls in the classroom. The setting varied from Test 1 in the sense that I only know 4 people in that class,

2 of them male students. So it's a classroom where almost no one knows me and has seen me once every week since

September for 2 hours per week.
Mones used: 1/2 Chikara small gel pack and 1/3 TE Gel Pack, applied to wrist,

forearm, neck and ears, a bit on the chest (thanks for the advice. I'll test individual mones from tomorrow instead

of combining them).
Result: Nada. Tried several times to get the attention of the girl who was sitting next to me

by sitting at an agle and crossing my eyes towards her, hoping she would do the same. Nothing. No weird interactions

outside classroom either.
Problem with the setting: seminar class, requires students to focus on class discussion

and debate. Not really a place to flirt or even think about flirting.

Conclusion from test 2: not enough evidence

(subjective evidence of course) to support the utility of mones given the above settings. Again, I'm not going to

draw any conclusions based on 2 tests.

PS. Test 3 will be interesting. I'm going out with an ex that I haven't

seen in a while and her friends (most of them girls) to a lounge. She's got a boyfriend but it'll be interesting

to see if there are any reactions.

Finally, I just want to add that I AM AWARE that my experiments are perfect in

design. There are so many variables involved that it almost makes it impossible to carry such an experiment.

Nevertheless, I'm going to try.

[koolking1]

"As for covering one arm

with mones and asking a female friend to smell both arms and decide which one smells nicer, a cologne could do the

same thing. It might just smell good. doesn't say anything about the effectiveness of mones."

I think you

may be misunderstanding the experiment I'd like you to try.

A. Explain to a woman that you are

experimenting with slight variations in a cologne you like.

B. Put mones on one arm only. Cover with your

cologne.

C. Put no mones on the other arm and then add the same amount of cologne as the previous

arm.

D. Ask women which arm she prefers.

[maxo-texas]

Sep.
I'm a pretty massive

sceptic but was totally converted my experiences.

In my case, one of my girlfriends that I was already intimate

with for 9 years goes completely bonkers over -none. The effect was dramatic and unmistakable. Other women i see

have been affected slightly and some not at all that i could tell.

One 30's girl who had turned me down (didn't

feel comfortable) has flipped and has been coming on, flirting, etc. and she started when I started the SOE + 4.2

(which is none).

I would say not all women are affected- but some are affected intensely. Positive reaction to

mones is becoming a prerequisite for me.

[sep]

Test 3
Setting: 8-9 hours after

applying mones (test 2). Going to have dinner with a female friend and a friend of hers which I hadn't met, also

female. In university cafeteria.
Application: just TE, around 1/4 of a gel pack. Applied to wrist and neck, and at

the end wiped off hands on shirt. Covered the neck with Victoria Secret cologne.
Observations: nada again, nothing

out of the ordinary. Her friend was nice and warm, but nothing special. No other incidents with other people

either.

Btw, I forgot to mention that yesterday I asked a friend to smell my forearm, which was covered with TE

and Chikara. She sniffed and without changing her expression told me that it's not the one I use all the time, and

I said no it's a new one. She said it smells smokey, and that's it!

So what's a good brand that has -none?

[sep]

If anyone knows the answer, please

reply asap.

TOnight's test4 setting has changed. It's going to be at a pub with lots of younger girls (18-22).

Well, not that much younger, i'm only 23. But anyways... out of Chikara, TE, and SOE, which one would you guys

recommend, and how much of it, applied to where?

[SoCal]

Where is this pub, I want in!

[sep]

Well, TEST 4

Setting: 24 hours

after test 3. Smoke-free pub with around 6-7 20-21 year old girls and 9-10 guys. Bit dissappointing, was hoping

there would be more people.
Dosage: 1/5 or 1/4 of SOE, 1/4 TE, applied to wrist, forearm, neck and ear
Result:

Nada again.

LOL you want in? Come to canada!

[Gegogi]

For bars I find I need at least a

half pack of SOE, oft I go with the whole thang. I usually combo with half dozen to a dozen dabs of NPA. A quarter

pack or SOE and TE is more of a going to work dosage for me. With competition from crowds, smoke and loud music, you

gotta bump up against an OD to stand out.

I love Canada. As I recall from my college days the drinking age is

19 in Vancouver, they have real strip clubs and the Cannabis Cafe is way cool. Only prob is the USA border guards

can be real asses when they realize you're a bunch of drunk college students. I figured they were jealous they

weren't having any fun.