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  1. #1
    Phero Enthusiast Icehawk's Avatar
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    Default Breath and pheromones.

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    Maybe

    that is why I remember one of my ex girlfreinds telling me about this aquaintance of mine who was trying to get at

    her whom didn't have the right smell. He was a nerdy gymnast instructor and disco dancer and she believed he

    sweated his off on the dance floor...but maybe lesser males do not have that same smell.

    I've heard

    numerous times from women who say something in my breath turns them on.

    And they also say they can smell when

    I'm horny by something in my breath.


    Something to think about.

    I know I do hate the thought of

    wearing colognes...which is a masking agent...societies way of trying to get women by smell...and I've heard that a

    nice cologne does work in some cases.

    This whole pheremone thing has me thinking. I know one dude who used to

    be bisexual. His luck with women is zero dispite that he is a nice looking man.

    I'm wondering if it's based

    on his pheremones...maybe what made him wonder over to the faggot side wasn't as he said because he never learned

    to connect with women and nobody taught him how to get them...but something in his very body...that made nasty shyt

    like that possible...

    Maybe men with alternate sexuality give off a total wrong or bad smell to women...hence

    his poor luck with them...

    Natures way of making sure that they really do not become breeders. I know he

    instinctively does not want children or even a relationship is a dim possiblity...

    Anybody have any thoughts

    on this:

    edit in:

    You've all seen the belly dancer who is on my cop file. She may have a couple of

    masters degrees but she is also very much intune to her physical body...having studied dance all of her Irish bred

    life.

    She used to keep clothes of mine just to smell them...gross to me but that is things that we all know

    women say and do.

    She said it drove her crazy...oh and she was married to an college proffessor at that

    time...

    My point is that maybe nature did endow alpha's with a certain pheremone that makes women with their

    highly develped sense of smell attracted to

    them.
    http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthr...threadid=59989

    Doable or

    marketable approach? Talking with pheromones?
    Would be nice. Direct, you use it when you need it, effects only

    specific target. Conversion would be a killer though. Just brainstorming I guess...

  2. #2
    Kodachrome Forever! Gegogi's Avatar
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    Maybe men with alternate

    sexuality give off a total wrong or bad smell to women...hence his poor luck with them...

    Natures way of

    making sure that they really do not become breeders. I know he instinctively does not want children or even a

    relationship is a dim possiblity...
    Perhaps there is something to this, but it ain't that simple or

    clearcut. I personally have known many bi and gay men whom were married and had kids. Also lots of women are

    attracted to gay men. I believe the term is fag-hags. I'm completely straight but often women ask if I'm gay.

    Oddly these women are usually strongly attracted to me. Never been complemented on my breath, but I'm pretty

    hardcore into dental hygiene (want to keep my teeth for a long time).
    "I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi

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    I think women that hang around

    gay men, do it out of a sense of security, they dont feel threatened sexually, also gay men tend to have an

    androgenous streak, most posses feminine behaviour and traits, women find they have something in common with these

    guys because they are just like them. This said, most women ultimatly do tend to go for masculine men, and alpha

    type men. By nature females, need a protective type partner, a male that will look after them.

  4. #4
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    ......................
    Maybe men

    with alternate sexuality give off a total wrong or bad smell to women...hence his poor luck with

    them...

    Natures way of making sure that they really do not become breeders. I know he instinctively does not

    want children or even a relationship is a dim possiblity...

    Anybody have any thoughts on

    this:
    --------------------------------------
    I have a 37-page review on this that will be published later this

    year in Journal of Psychology and Human Sexuality. Martins, Preti, Wysocki, Crabtree and ? published some time ago

    that homosexuals prefer the natural body odor of other homosexuals. There is also a difference in the hypothalamic

    response. Lots of technical information in this regard, that makes it no less clear, if you are inclined to look at

    the actual research reports.

    JVK


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    Kodachrome Forever! Gegogi's Avatar
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    There are also cultural and

    racial elements at play. Asian women--my own race--never have any doubts about my sexual orientation. They're often

    afraid of me at first. I come off as somewhat dangerous--an ominous player type, bedding women and tossing them

    asunder. So they say. Oddly it's women outside of my race and culture--Black and White women primarily--that

    question my sexual orientation. I figured it had more to do with my small frame, "sensitive" artist status and nice

    clothing than pheromones. Once cleared up they're good to go. Later they find out I'm an insensitive ass like the

    other men they date.
    "I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi

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    Phero Enthusiast platinumfox's Avatar
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    I guess some people have

    "mutant" qualities I never heard of anyone turning on women by their breath.You would make a cool X-Men member call

    yourself "Mone Mouth"

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    Quote Originally Posted by platinumfox
    I guess some

    people have "mutant" qualities I never heard of anyone turning on women by their breath.You would make a cool X-Men

    member call yourself "Mone Mouth"
    Though he'd never be able to talk to any other of the female

    X-members. And I'm sure anytime he started to talk to Jean, Cyclops and Wolverine both would give him dirty looks.

    May be he could make time with Storm or Rogue. We'll we know what would have with Rogue.

    -Bat

  8. #8
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by platinumfox
    I guess some

    people have "mutant" qualities I never heard of anyone turning on women by their breath.You would make a cool X-Men

    member call yourself "Mone Mouth"
    "What's in a Kiss?" is the title of a Discovery Health Channel

    special in which I appeared. In case the title is not enough of a clue... it's the pheromones. ????Never heard of

    anyone turning on women by their breath???? What do you think is happening at this stage of the pheromone-driven

    courtship sequence?

    JVK

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    I think JVK would be Professor X

    lesser known brother "The Mone Master".

    -Bat

  10. #10
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jambat
    I think JVK would be

    Professor X lesser known brother "The Mone Master".

    -Bat
    Just remember, I only use my

    professorship for good, never evil--at least, not so far.

    JVK

  11. #11
    Phero Enthusiast platinumfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvkohl
    ????Never

    heard of anyone turning on women by their breath???? What do you think is happening at this stage of the

    pheromone-driven courtship sequence?

    JVK
    I think its the closeness

    and the anticipation of the kiss that gets people excited.Do you get turned on if someone just breathes on you?If

    you are attracted to them you might because you are associating their breath to mouth to kiss and so on.It's more

    psychological than chemical.

  12. #12
    Kodachrome Forever! Gegogi's Avatar
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    I've met many attractive women

    with breath so bad I almost hurled. A real turn-off indeed.
    "I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi

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    Has anyone here ever been into

    ketosis? Well bad breath is a issue with this diet, and I have met heaps of women that never eat sugars or carbs,

    and often are in some level of ketosis, thats why I have come across alot of women with bad breath.

  14. #14
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by platinumfox
    I think its the

    closeness and the anticipation of the kiss that gets people excited.Do you get turned on if someone just breathes on

    you?If you are attracted to them you might because you are associating their breath to mouth to kiss and so on.It's

    more psychological than chemical.
    As you may know, I do not agree with the psychological approach.

    Nothing about courtship is more psychological than chemical, since brain "chemistry" drives every aspect of our

    sexual preferences. And every aspect of neuroscience, especially social neuroscience, supports this chemistry. In my

    book, I detailed how pheromones are intimately involved in every aspect of the courtship sequence. But you need not

    read the book to attempt to offer a psychological explanation. Just make one up, like other people have been doing

    for years. But you may need some help from psychologists to include how a man would get excited by the closeness and

    the anticipation of kissing another man. Then we'll look at the brain imaging results that show a male pheromone

    lighting up the area of another man's brain that typically responds to female pheromones. This area of the brain

    "drives" sexuality in all mammals, and is as much a part of creation/evolution as the nose on your face.



    JVK

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    Quote Originally Posted by jvkohl
    As you may know, I

    do not agree with the psychological approach. Nothing about courtship is more psychological than chemical, since

    brain "chemistry" drives every aspect of our sexual preferences. And every aspect of neuroscience, especially social

    neuroscience, supports this chemistry. In my book, I detailed how pheromones are intimately involved in every aspect

    of the courtship sequence. But you need not read the book to attempt to offer a psychological explanation. Just make

    one up, like other people have been doing for years. But you may need some help from psychologists to include how a

    man would get excited by the closeness and the anticipation of kissing another man. Then we'll look at the brain

    imaging results that show a male pheromone lighting up the area of another man's brain that typically responds to

    female pheromones. This area of the brain "drives" sexuality in all mammals, and is as much a part of

    creation/evolution as the nose on your face.

    JVK

    if

    Freud were alive he would disagree, just my bet...

  16. #16
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronzie
    Has anyone here ever

    been into ketosis? Well bad breath is a issue with this diet, and I have met heaps of women that never eat sugars or

    carbs, and often are in some level of ketosis, thats why I have come across alot of women with bad

    breath.
    There are many chemical imbalances that result in characteristic malodorous conditions.

    Before physicians had clinical laboratory tests to assist in their diagnoses, the odors associated with different

    disease processes were consistently validated. An example also attests to this validity.

    An emergency room

    patient presents as nearly comatose and is unresponsive. Is he in a state of diabetic ketoacidosis? That's the

    presumptive diagnosis due to point-of-care treatment indicating a glucose level higher than their instrumentation

    can accurately assess: greater than 400 (which is about 4 times the normal level). No, otherwise he would have the

    characteristic odor associated with uncontrolled diabetes. So, the physician waits for completion of more accurate

    testing. Turns out the patient's glucose is over 1500, and there is no evidence of ketones in his serum, or urine,

    which is why he didn't smell like an out-of-control diabetic. Sure, he had diabetes, but it was previously

    undiagnosed so his body had adapted over many years. It could have been a big mistake to treat him for symptoms that

    were not consistent with a characteristic odor. Good thing the attending physician trusted his nose, and waited for

    more accurate testing.

    JVK

  17. #17
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronzie
    if Freud were alive

    he would disagree, just my bet...
    If Freud were still alive, he would either have learned

    about neuroscience, and quit making-up his unsupported explanations, or forever be branded a "quack." I've got

    nothing against him--he worked with knowledge that was available to him at the time. Things have changed, many of

    his followers have not.

    JVK

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    Phero Enthusiast platinumfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvkohl
    As you may

    know, I do not agree with the psychological approach. Nothing about courtship is more psychological than chemical,

    since brain "chemistry" drives every aspect of our sexual preferences. And every aspect of neuroscience, especially

    social neuroscience, supports this chemistry. In my book, I detailed how pheromones are intimately involved in every

    aspect of the courtship sequence. But you need not read the book to attempt to offer a psychological explanation.

    Just make one up, like other people have been doing for years. But you may need some help from psychologists to

    include how a man would get excited by the closeness and the anticipation of kissing another man. Then we'll look

    at the brain imaging results that show a male pheromone lighting up the area of another man's brain that typically

    responds to female pheromones. This area of the brain "drives" sexuality in all mammals, and is as much a part of

    creation/evolution as the nose on your face.

    JVK
    But you didn't

    answer my question to you.Have you ever been turned on by someones breath?Sometimes science can only go so far in

    the real world while psychology is always around us 24/7 and deals more with our real lives.To get what you want in

    life its all mental not machine operated tests.

    Yes I agree if someone is gay then it is a chemical

    thing.Just as certain people get cancer,Parkinsons or any other disease.

    Some situations you have to take the

    quick "street smart" approach which is psychological.Thats how I see it if I am close to a lady and she's breathing

    on me it's the association of the mouth that I mentioned before.

    But I know now that pheromones can come

    from breath too.I just want to hear the ladies say "Oh my god that guy has the sexiest breath...I want to have sex

    with him" that would be the conclusion every guy wants to hear.

  19. #19
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by platinumfox
    But you didn't

    answer my question to you.Have you ever been turned on by someones breath?
    Yes, I have. But I cannot

    recall ever being consciously aware of the chemically-driven stimulus response cycle that turned me on at the time

    it was happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by platinumfox
    Sometimes science can only go so far in the real world while

    psychology is always around us 24/7 and deals more with our real lives.To get what you want in life its all mental

    not machine operated tests.
    Approximately 90% of our behavior is "driven" by unconscious affect. We

    do not consciously process the mental data that you indicate gets us what we want. Perhaps that explains why we

    don't always get what we want, and sometimes we don't even know what we want.

    Quote Originally Posted by platinumfox
    Yes I

    agree if someone is gay then it is a chemical thing.Just as certain people get cancer,Parkinsons or any other

    disease.
    It's hard for me to understand how someone can pick examples of a "chemical thing" and not

    realize that every "thing" is a chemical thing. Biology, especially the branch referred to as neuroscience, is not a

    selective explanation. It encompasses all aspects of behavior with well-defined animal models that predict stimulus

    response associations. Psychologists are willing to use animal models to predict behavior, but tend to stop short

    when they "think" about human cause and effect. Somehow, something must be different--in any human condition--is an

    unscientific approach, especially when it comes to the study of human sexuality.



    Quote Originally Posted by platinumfox
    Some situations you have to take the quick "street smart" approach which is

    psychological.Thats how I see it if I am close to a lady and she's breathing on me it's the association of the

    mouth that I mentioned before.
    Most situations require the quick "street smart" approach. But what

    happens is that psychological explanations are then used when we think about what went right or wrong--and that's

    where our thought processes and psychology fail. Unless we draw conclusions with some basic understanding of

    biology, we can't possibly know what went right or wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by platinumfox
    But I know now that

    pheromones can come from breath too.I just want to hear the ladies say "Oh my god that guy has the sexiest

    breath...I want to have sex with him" that would be the conclusion every guy wants to hear.
    Most guys

    want to hear about any "quick fix" that gets them the sex they want. There will never be a quick fix because the

    chemistry of sex is too complex.

    JVK

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    Default Psychological and Pheromonal indeed...

    I would like to add my two, or ten cents, worth. First, I have been on both sides of the equation

    (no, not the sexual side, the success/failure side). There was a period of time when I could do no wrong with

    women. Making love constantly (I never f..k, I put as much into sex with a one-timer as I do with those I have

    relationships with)
    and effortlessly. Always was funny and the center of attention.
    Then, almost overnight, I

    "forgot" how to be personable. Literally. I do not know how to this day. Suddenly, it was as if I could not

    "remember my lines." Once my confidence began to go things, spiraled to destitution rapidly! The damnest thing.

    Eventually I got back my "mojo" (ha ha), though it was never exactly the same. But here is where it is

    especially ironic.

    During that couple year drought, where I really struggled, an eye-opening event occurred.

    This was back in the early 90's when a Saturday Night Live routine called Hans and Franz was around. For Halloween,

    my friend and I went as Hans and Franz with the same foam rubber muscles and grey sweats and weight belt. Really

    looked the same. I was completely "in character" down to the German accent and the obnoxious Uber-Alpha confidence.

    I would walk and swagger through this packed club whilst loudly proclaiming to one and all to "scuse please...make

    way for my large muscles", ad nauseum.

    Now here is the funny part. Not only was the costume/character a

    hit at this large Southern Florida club, but I got hit on openly and directly all night long! The women HAD to know

    the muscles were fake and HAD to know the personality was fake, yet they ate it up like sugar! With that one main

    exception, I was an utter failure for months at a time during that period. However, it drove home a point that no

    matter how you look (I have always been blessed with a good six pack equipped athletic type body, am 6'1" tall

    and have usually been called attractive: though do not claim to be a Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp level)
    there was

    much more to it than that.

    Eventually I recaptured my "ability" by working on my personality and getting back

    to who I used to be. (Further,I am not talking about the "grubber" women that go after anyone with a pulse

    because they have money/Ferrari/Cigarette boat, etc. They are a differnet issue)
    I am referring to genuine

    sexual attraction for it's own sake, perhaps or perhaps not, leading to a friendship or other relationship.

    Further, it cannot just be a certain smell for, as we have all seen on this forum, individuals who have claimed to

    get hits, but then lose them after a short period.

    If one is consdiered disgusting by societal standards, then

    unless you are funny as hell or rich, you are probably SOL. Appearance, which is linked solidly to good genes and

    survivability, is as basal of an instinct as there is (why do animals do all their courting routines with the

    stronger or better winning far more often than not?).
    Now granted, one does not have to look like a sex symbol,

    but one had better look and act healthy and fit and desireable, at some level, or you are going to get the second

    rate women (or men).

    Johnny Depp or Viggo Mortenson were hugely sexy to women (and more men than care

    to admit it)
    in their respective characters of Jack Sparrow the pirate and Aragorn/Strider, despite their

    unkempt appearance. Now 90% of men who look like those characters (unkempt and dirty) in the real world would

    be rejected by all but the most "biker" type of skank. And there were no pheromones on screen. But there were

    incredibly good looks underneath and a strong Alpha personality.

    Women are incredibly fantasy oriented and if

    one can appeal to a fantasy part of their mind then they may very well succeed with them sexually. My point in this

    rambling diatribe is that there surely must be a synergy between appearance, pheromones and personality. With all

    respect JVK it cannot be only pheromones, though they must play a huge part. Otherwise every "shrek-looking" guy

    wearing pheromones would be knocking down Jessica Simpson types.

    There is a point to be made here. One

    absolutely cannot under-estimate the power of personality, where even an obviously fake (and all too frequent

    obnoxious)
    Alpha-type will get hit after hit, while the "wall flower"-type, no matter how good-looking, is going

    to come up short time and again. That said, regardless of how one looks, one damned well better try and dress well

    and with style, have something to talk about of interest to most people and remember that even being a little fake

    and bombastic is better than sincere, quiet and invisible. At least if you are trying to attract women initally!



    Once they get to know you, then maybe OK, but if they never "see" you in the first place, then it does not matter

    how rich, smart or funny you are. Do not misunderstand, I strongly believe the pheromones are important to set you

    apart. To catch attention and maybe to help close the deal. But it is not a holy grail my friends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jvkohl
    If Freud were

    still alive, he would either have learned about neuroscience, and quit making-up his unsupported explanations, or

    forever be branded a "quack." I've got nothing against him--he worked with knowledge that was available to him at

    the time. Things have changed, many of his followers have

    not.

    JVK
    Sigmund Freud theories and teachings have been

    proven to be correct and are supported with research, he is no quack by any stretch of the imagination, his

    teachings are the basis for many disciplines taught in Universities all over the world, including psychology and

    psychiatry and the psychiatric therapy that developed from his teaching serve an important function for modern

    society and help a lot of people. No disrespect here, but someone claiming that human sexuality and their

    preferences are based only on brain chemistry and triggered only by pheromones, may come across as a quack to a lot

    of people. Saying this amounts to saying, humans are no more evolved then moths or other insects.

    I believe

    pheromones work and achieve a desired result, to an extent, and you have a great pheromone product which has served

    me well in the past, but trying to discredit a giant mind like Freud is rather futile in my opinion and probably in

    the opinion of millions of academics around the world.

  22. #22
    Journeyman live4themusic's Avatar
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    The majority of modern

    psychologists hold little stock in Freud's theories AS RULES. There are psychologists who will give a nod to SOME

    of his theories and how they are related to the actual models in use, or how current models were developed from his

    theories. He is a prominent historical and cultural figure in psychology, and this is why most everyone knows about

    him, but for the most part, I would say J.V. Kohl is right. He is about as much of a scientist as Nostradamis...

    make enough vague speculations and you are bound to be on target with a few of them.

    If any therapist tried to

    explain to me how any of my problems stem from an oedipal complex, they would not see another cent from me, but I

    guess that must be because of my own defense mechanisms,

    right?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freud

    However,

    most of Freud's specific theories--like his stages of psychosexual development--and especially his methodology,

    have fallen out of favor in modern experimental psychology. Some psychotherapists, however, still follow an

    approximately Freudian system of treatment. Many more have modified his approach, or joined one of the schools that

    branched from his original theories (see Neo-Freudian). Still

    others reject his theories entirely, although their practice may still reflect his

    influence.
    [

    1]
    . A. C. Grayling, writing in The Guardian in

    2002, said "Philosophies that capture the imagination never wholly fade....But as to Freud's claims upon truth, the

    judgment of time seems to be running against

    him."[2]

    Peter D. Kramer, said "I'm afraid [Freud] doesn't hold

    up very well at all. It almost feels like a personal betrayal to say that. But every particular is wrong: the

    universality of the Oedipus complex, penis envy, infantile sexuality." A 2006 article in

    Newsweek magazine called him "history's most debunked

    doctor"[3]



    Freud's

    theories are often criticized for not being real science. This objection was raised most famously by

    Karl Popper, who claimed that all proper

    scientific theories must be potentially

    falsifiable. If a theory cannot possibly be falsified, then it

    cannot be considered scientific. Popper argued that no experiment

    or observation could ever falsify Freud's theories of psychology (e.g. someone who denies having an Oedipal complex

    is interpreted as repressing it), and thus they could not be considered scientific. On the other hand, numerous

    experimental and correlational studies have provided empirical support for certain Freudian concepts, such as the

    pattern of the anal personality.

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    wikipedia is hardly a point of

    reference (mostly used by people that cant be bothered visiting a library) in any sense of the word, especially

    academic.

    I can list a few thousand academic book references on freud and his influence on modern day

    psychology with research that his teaching are correct and proven.

    But this is a pheromone forum....alas

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    I will give you that there

    are books that will state that Freud's teachings are correct. But there are many more books that indicate

    otherwise. For example, the psychology books I used in all of the psychology classes I've had in college have

    mentioned that Freud's theories have not been empirically proven, even though we still learned them. My teachers

    also said as much.

    By saying you CAN list a few thousand, you are implying you already have read a few thousand

    such books, right? I mean I can list a few thousand books describing how we can harness the energy of the aether,

    and progress being made towards the conversion of lead into gold, but that doesn't mean these books are correct or

    that I actually know what these books are. The only reason I say I CAN list them is because I know they're out

    there. Of course actually listing them would probably take me a year or more of research completely devoted to

    tracking these books down, but hey... I CAN do it.


    Either there is a huge conspiracy, and everything being

    taught in schools round the world are geared against Freud for some unknown reason, or it is in fact correct that

    Freud is considered outdated by MOST psychologists.

    Let's start with a local example. In this thread, J.V. Kohl

    and myself, both students of psychology, are claiming that most of Freud's theories are unsubstantiated. So far,

    you are the only person I have ever encountered who has stated that Freud's theories and teachings have been proven

    correct and are supported with research, let alone on this thread.

    Now I know you are going to say "well, just

    because I am outnumbered on this thread doesn't mean that I am wrong that in general he is considered correct." So

    I issue you this challenge: Find me ONE thread on ANY forum where the majority of posters are in support of your

    statement that Freud's teachings and theories have been proven correct and are supported with research. Not just

    one of Freud's theories, but at least half of them. If, after searching, you wish to retract your statement, then I

    will also concede to you that there are a FEW of his theories which hold some water.

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    So ...anyway... about the

    breath thing and the clothing thing.

    Yes- women are notorious for smelling/wearing their man's clothing when he

    is away.

    I've read somewhere in the last year that your breath smells good/bad based on how close you are to

    someone by blood.

    I can believe someone out there has some unusual oral hygiene too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bronzie
    No disrespect here,

    but someone claiming that human sexuality and their preferences are based only on brain chemistry and triggered only

    by pheromones, may come across as a quack to a lot of people. Saying this amounts to saying, humans are no more

    evolved then moths or other insects.
    No disrepect taken, but I don't like anyone indicating that

    I'm saying "humans are no more evolved than moths or other insects." I detailed the species differences in my book,

    and have further detailed them with a molecular biochemical approach that links Creation and evolution in a

    forthcoming 37-page review. The review includes more than 100 citations to recent data, which is based on thousands

    of less recent studies.

    Try finding 100 citations to data that support anything that Freud ever said and you

    will discover a significant difference between psychobabble and neuroscience. You might also want to read my review

    of a book by Arthur Janov, who is also considered (by some) to be an important figure in the world of psychology.

    Simply put, he's a quack, but here's a link to my Journal of Sex Research

    review:
    http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...38/ai_84866962


    Quote Originally Posted by bronzie


    I believe pheromones work and achieve a desired result, to an extent, and you have a great pheromone product

    which has served me well in the past, but trying to discredit a giant mind like Freud is rather futile in my opinion

    and probably in the opinion of millions of academics around the world.
    I'm not trying to discredit

    Freud. His explanations for his observations have already been thoroughly discredited. But this does not discredit

    the role he played in the development of psychology as a "soft" science. In contrast, neuroscience is a "hard"

    science, which generally means that reported results are not just someone's thoughts on how things work, but are

    representations of data-based explanations of how things work.

    JVK

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    I believe Freud was off in some

    areas, obviously, as no "headshrinker" can be entirely correct in a field so subjective. In my opinion, the vast

    majority of analysts likely are in the field through conscious or unconcious issues of their own. As to academia: to

    paraphrase..."those who can't do oftentimes teach..." But I digress.

    Since a challenge was issued, I pick up

    the gauntlet! Merely Google Freud +Psychology and on the first page one can locate multiple references to Freud.

    Including the validity of many of his theorys, ironically, many of which he later recanted himself (likely due to

    his own psychiatric issues and subsequent denial)
    . Nonetheless, if hitting .400 makes a hall of famer, one can

    likely say that in the Psychoanalytical hall of fame Freud is a member, not just for being the most recognizable

    name, but for creating many theorys and paths down which others have further trodden. Put another way, is Dr.

    Livingstone less of an African expert than Cecil Rhodes merely for not having learned as much about what later

    became Rhodesia? Strange analogy, but it is late at night and it is the first that came to mind!

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    Just to play Devil' Advocate,

    though I am hugely a critical and analytical thinker (with a degree in aviation science) I recognize the

    limits of modern science. According to aeronautical engineering, it is impossible for a bumblebee to fly, yet it

    does. There is simply no way that all of a human being's thoughts and behaviours can be predicted solely on

    environmental or neurological factors. There are too many intangible, qualitative behaviors. Simply, I give you a

    test: prove in a reproducable study why Johnny believes chocolate tastes better than vanilla. Or that Suzy is hot

    and Jane is not. How does one quantify an opinion based on something so subjective? Are there neurological reasons

    for it? OK, way too philosophical, I am going to sleep now. What is terrible is that I will likely lay awake for

    some few minutes thinking about this thread. But I will tell you this, there are some smart folks on this site with

    JVK right on up there!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monello
    There is simply no

    way that all of a human being's thoughts and behaviours can be predicted solely on environmental or neurological

    factors. There are too many intangible, qualitative behaviors.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Monello
    Simply,

    I give you a test: prove in a reproducable study why Johnny believes chocolate tastes better than vanilla. Or that

    Suzy is hot and Jane is not. How does one quantify an opinion based on something so subjective? Are there

    neurological reasons for it?
    There are neurological reasons, but the inherent diversity of combining

    influences of nature and nurture preclude pinpointing any individual's preferences, sexual or otherwise. All

    research can show is the neurological basis for preferences, many of which are predictable from animal models. But

    all preferences can be sufficiently suppressed by human cognition, and this explains at least some of the limits in

    extending animal models to humans.

    JVK

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    Actually the bumblebee thing

    is a *very* old urban legend. ( http://www.paghat.com/beeflight.html among many other listings). BB

    Flight fits very well with known physics and flight models developed back in the 1800's. It doesn't fit *fixed*

    wing dynamics but hey, bumble bees wings move don't you know.

    The reason it comes up a lot is that creationists

    like to use it as an argument point a lot in evolution/creationism debates.

    Science has many limits but that's

    not one of them.

    ---

    The biggest reason I've always found Suzy hot vs Jane is that Suzy shows the slightest

    hint that she is interested in me. So part of my game these days is to take someone I'm only interested in

    philosophically (Hmmm she's nice, does some of the things I like doing and is hot) and prod them into a mode where

    they exhibit interest in me (so then my beast will be interested i them). I didn't used to do that and so had only

    about 11 females put themselves into the proper state without my help in 30 years.

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