Androstenone effects and considerations

[Johnny]

First post here, but I've been lurking for some time.

I've been using pheros from time to time for a few

years. At first I used a -none/-nol mix but lately I've been using the "Passion Pheromone Attractant" (PPA)

parfume, which afaik is only androstenone. It really seems to be working, but there's a few odd things I wonder

about.

1) Isn't the main effect really on the wearer rather than the target? I get much calmer, worriless,

confident and is 'focusing on the game' when I wear PPA. Combined with decent looks and a friendly personality

this seems to give MY brain the edge it needs for performing seduction. Afterall, as the wearer I'm exposed to a

lot more of the none than my target. Being a skinny built vegetarian I assume I have naturally low testosterone

levels.

2) Won't wearing synthetic pheromones lower your natural pheromone production? My very limited knowledge

in physiology says the human body tends to down-regulate anything when exposed to unnatural amounts of it.

3)

I've been seducing one of my female friends, and everytime we sit around and talk she is very touchy, always finds

a way to shift the topic to sex and looks into my eyes forever. Of course I encourage it as much as I can. However,

when we talk on the phone she is completely different, irritable and sounds annoyed.
Is this a typical "withdrawal

syndrome" from pheros ? I solve the problem by spending as little time as possible on the phone, but it would be

interesting to know other peoples experiences and possible work-arounds.

4) While pheros seem to be working great

for me, I really don't want to wear them all the time or all my life. I hear that if you change your "pheromone

signature", girlfriends tend to get upset and ditch you (and I might have experienced something like this). How can

you counteract this? Perhaps I could gradually lower my none 'dosage' over the course of a year or

something?

5) I'm only wearing -none at the moment, and this has some negative impacts on my friendship with

other males. Therefore I recently aquired some unscented SOE. Again, there's the "signature change" problem. How do

you guys do when you're experimenting with different mixes?

6) The old none + nol mix seemed to be better on

certain women, and I wonder if a mix of New Pheromone Additive (NPA) + SOE would be comparable. Afaik NPA is only

androstenone right? And SOE is nol + rone?

7) Do you think that phero colognes are really a good idea in the long

run, or do they just allow you to "play out of your league" for a short while?

8) I got a male sample pack from

LS. How do you use these? (I do understand how to apply gels...) Won't the different phero signatures be a really

bad idea if you're meeting the same people on each one of them?

9) How do you figure out the most suitable phero

combo to wear, considering your natural phero signature? Pure trial and error seems pretty risky since this is

powerful stuff and you never know when you're going to run into Her.

FWIW, I'm 26, 6 feet, not shy, straight,

single (more or less...) with a few longer relationships behind me.

[Mtnjim]

1) Isn't the main

effect really on the wearer rather than the target? I get much calmer, worriless, confident and is 'focusing on the

game' when I wear PPA. Combined with decent looks and a friendly personality this seems to give MY brain the edge

it needs for performing seduction. Afterall, as the wearer I'm exposed to a lot more of the none than my target.

Being a skinny built vegetarian I assume I have naturally low testosterone levels.

They effect

both.

2) Won't wearing synthetic pheromones lower your natural pheromone production?

Not in this case

3) I've been seducing one of my female friends, and everytime we sit around and talk

she is very touchy, always finds a way to shift the topic to sex and looks into my eyes forever. Of course I

encourage it as much as I can.

And you haven't moved forward?

4) While pheros seem to

be working great for me, I really don't want to wear them all the time or all my life. I hear that if you change

your "pheromone signature", girlfriends tend to get upset and ditch you (and I might have experienced something like

this). How can you counteract this? Perhaps I could gradually lower my none 'dosage' over the course of a year or

something?

Don't worry about it at the moment.

5) I'm only wearing -none at the moment, and

this has some negative impacts on my friendship with other males. Therefore I recently aquired some unscented SOE.

Again, there's the "signature change" problem. How do you guys do when you're experimenting with different

mixes?

look

HERE!

6) The old none + nol

mix seemed to be better on certain women, and I wonder if a mix of New Pheromone Additive (NPA) + SOE would be

comparable. Afaik NPA is only androstenone right? And SOE is nol + rone?

See "DD#1" at the

above.

7) Do you think that phero colognes are really a good idea in the long run, or do they just allow

you to "play out of your league" for a short while?

8) I got a male sample pack from LS. How do you use these? (I

do understand how to apply gels...) Won't the different phero signatures be a really bad idea if you're meeting

the same people on each one of them?

9) How do you figure out the most suitable phero combo to wear, considering

your natural phero signature? Pure trial and error seems pretty risky since this is powerful stuff and you never

know when you're going to run into Her.

FWIW, I'm 26, 6 feet, not shy, straight, single (more or less...) with

a few longer relationships behind me.

Read the forums


By the way

[Johnny]

Not in this

case

Is this a scientific fact? I know it's not like taking testosterone supplements, but still. It must

have some sort of effect, doesn't it?

And you haven't moved forward?

Of course I

have But it's not really a relationship yet, and I think I'd like to keep it like it is for a while. She gets

to think she has to work for it... I really don't like playing with her like this (I'm more the romantic kind of

guy, well used to be...), but it seems it is what women really want when it comes to sex, and I'd like to keep

her.

Don't worry about it at the moment.

Why not? When I need the knowledge it might be

too late to start looking

Read the forums

Is this like in RTFM, or more like

"nobody knows for sure, that's why we have the forums" ? Because I'm especially curious about my question #8.

Getting lots of hits from women keeps my self-esteem up (ridiculous yes, but what the hell it's fun!) and keeps my

'real target' on her toes.

By the way

Thanks!

[Mtnjim]

Sorry, I don't understand

the reference to "DD#1".

It stands for "Donald Duck #1" mix. Specifically a SoE/NPA mix. Named after the

Inventor "Donald Duck" who now posts here as "Watcher".

Quote:


Originally Posted by Mtnjim
Read the forums



Is this like in RTFM, or more like "nobody knows for sure, that's why we have the forums"

?

More like RTFM, but different. There is great power in the forums.

Also, you are entering an

area of research that is still "young' and you will find some answers don't apply to you. All of your other

questions are answered by the Oracle of Delphi ...ermm I mean the forums.

[Johnny]

Sorry, I changed my reply while

you were replying to it... (the last section)

[Mtnjim]

Sorry, I changed my

reply while you were replying to it... (the last section)

Question #8 is difficult to answer, because it

varies from person to person. A lot depends on your personal signature as a starting point. That's why using ~mones

is called experimenting.

[Johnny]

Another one for you. I read in

the Cookbook that wearing -none will get girls who have their period aggressive. This hasn't been the case for me

at all. Does this indicate that it's all been false positives and it's all my natural charm or whatever?

[Cullmanz Own]

It all depends on the girl.

Some it does, some it doesn't. Being calm sometimes has an effect but some women are more sensitive to smells than

others on their ".". Be cautious tho, some women can be agressive, sometimes even violent. And I mean not

sexually agressive but VIOLENTLY aggressive. I'm heeding you a fair warning in my own experience recently. A girl i

know was on the rag (I saw her gettin a tampon) and i was wearin my TE and she started gettin all pissed at me and

tryin to shove me. I just laughed at her and walked away. They turn into beasts man! Be careful.

[Sigma]

3) I've been

seducing one of my female friends, and everytime we sit around and talk she is very touchy, always finds a way to

shift the topic to sex and looks into my eyes forever. Of course I encourage it as much as I can. However, when we

talk on the phone she is completely different, irritable and sounds annoyed.
Is this a typical "withdrawal

syndrome" from pheros ? I solve the problem by spending as little time as possible on the phone, but it would be

interesting to know other peoples experiences and possible work-arounds.

Mones play a more prevalant

role in the attraction building, lust drive. They play a less important role when lust and attraction are advanced

to infatutuation. Infatuation is more or less a conditioned sense of attraction with or without the actual physical,

attractive stimuli. Point is, if the overall experience of being physically around you is strong enough (a product

of both your game/personality + pheromones and others) then a simple phone conversation, or just the mere thought of

you should register similar sensations as if she were phsysically with you, mones and all.

I think the most

important point is that pheromones shouldn't be the most attractive part of you. People are far more comlpex than

that. Learn to create those same sensations without the use of synthetic pheromones. Men have been doing it for ages

afterall.[/quote]

4) While pheros seem to be working great for me, I really don't want to wear

them all the time or all my life. I hear that if you change your "pheromone signature", girlfriends tend to get

upset and ditch you (and I might have experienced something like this). How can you counteract this? Perhaps I could

gradually lower my none 'dosage' over the course of a year or something?

The presence of pheromones on

you is a big change to people who know you well, but people have a highly adaptive nature....they will adapt to

change over time. I think adjustment to pheromone signiatures is better facilitated if the pheromone signiature

shares some congruencey with your behavior. Some pheromones are simply too different from your inherent personality,

in which case either tone down the mones, or make changes in your personality. Not to say you should change who you

are, but don't don a lot of none and "talk" the unconscious "talk", and not back it up by "walking the walk"

5) I'm only wearing -none at the moment, and this has some negative impacts on my friendship with

other males. Therefore I recently aquired some unscented SOE. Again, there's the "signature change" problem. How do

you guys do when you're experimenting with different mixes?

I've noticed the same initially with both

none and rone. Most took to none ok, and took to rone really well, but my more arrogant type friends didn't respond

well to it at all. They almost seemed threatened by it.

Again people tend to adapt to changes in your pheromone

signiature over time. The fact that your none, rone, nol etc levels are generally higher on a consistent basis does

seem to change people's perceptions of you. Minor changes in mixing won't affect long term perceptions much.

7) Do you think that phero colognes are really a good idea in the long run, or do they just allow

you to "play out of your league" for a short while?

I'll probably be using pheromones for quite a

while, not for the long term benefits, but for the short term ones. Even when I'm out of the game and finally

settled down one day many many years down the road, I'll still use pheromones to get a leg up in professional and

social settings. It probably won't be more than a 'once a week' thing...but who knows.

If you're thinking in

terms of establishing a long term relationship, I would certainly hope that these relationships would be founded on

something far more profound than pheromone signiatures...in which case I might tone down my usage. Again feelings of

infatuation and yes, love are about so much more than mere pheromones. That isn't to say that pheromones won't

benefit these types of relationships, but if the attachments are genuine, then pheromones will play a very small

part. I will keep them around for the occasional spice though.

9) How do you figure out the

most suitable phero combo to wear, considering your natural phero signature? Pure trial and error seems pretty risky

since this is powerful stuff and you never know when you're going to run into Her.

Experimentation and

trial and error are the best way. Based on the responses of people here, you can pretty accurately hypothesize which

products will work and which won't, but effective use of pheromones is based on a strong personal knowledge gained

through trial and error.

Dating itself is a long process of trial and error right. We date a woman, things

don't work, and we learn from the experience. I don't mean this as an insult to your approach to women, its more

of a rhetorical analogy... you really won't get a full grasp of how things work unless you take the risk of messing

up, and actually mess up time and time again. Goes for pheromones and women!

Your best bet when experimenting

though, is to do it on low risk off days...days where you can observe the effects of the pheromones without worrying

about the reprecussions of a mix gone bad.

[Johnny]

It seems like I have a much

stronger belief in the power of the mones than you guys... But of course I have changed my personality to better

suit high none levels (not holding back my alpha instincts), and wearing none even helps that transformation

subconsiously.

I'm just afraid that I'll fuck up something good from improper use of mones, from not being

educated enough about them. Like I said, I probably have low natural mone levels to start with so it's really a

boost.

[Gegogi]

A girl i know was on the

rag (I saw her gettin a tampon) and i was wearin my TE and she started gettin all pissed at me and tryin to shove

me. I just laughed at her and walked away. They turn into beasts man! Be careful.

I've never had a guy

get hostile while wearing 'mones but suffered a massive hostility from a woman--normally calm--while wearing OD

levels of NPA. She was sort of my GF but not (she was happily married). She was probably in a bad mood and the

'none merely irritated her further. I didn't do a thing but she when nuts, screaming, threatening and hitting me.

However, once she calmed down she was crazy horny, started touching herself in the car and we ended up doing it on

the side of the road. She was terribly confused emotionally and didn't know if she was coming or going.

[CptKipling]

Good posts guys.

As for

number 2, there is no negative feedback loop. In fact it kinda makes sense that if we were to detect a lot of

pheromones we would produce even more of our own (increased testosterone levels from arousal, etc. etc.).

[a.k.a.]

1) Isn't the main

effect really on the wearer rather than the target? I get much calmer, worriless, confident and is 'focusing on the

game' when I wear PPA. Combined with decent looks and a friendly personality this seems to give MY brain the edge

it needs for performing seduction. Afterall, as the wearer I'm exposed to a lot more of the none than my target.

Being a skinny built vegetarian I assume I have naturally low testosterone levels.

The main

effect is the chemistry generated between people.
I find that androstenone is some kind of stimulant. A small

dosage tends to be a confidence booster for everybody involved. It makes me feel energetic and alert and it tends to

make women feel sexy and desirable. This is good chemistry. So if I just play it natural, good things tend to

happen. I tend to be more daring and upbeat, which makes women more flirtatious, which makes me more daring ...

which creates a sort of positive feedback loop.
A somewhat higher dosage tends to make me feel cocky and

full of my self, while it tends to make women feel slightly tense yet strangely aroused (that dangerous man

mystique). In some situations (usually when there’s alcohol involved) I can play it natural and good things happen.

In other situations I have to play it cool — tone myself down — otherwise I’ll scare women

away.

2) Won't wearing synthetic pheromones lower your natural pheromone production?

My very limited knowledge in physiology says the human body tends to down-regulate anything when exposed to

unnatural amounts of it.

I don’t know. But it doesn’t seem to be significant. My girlfriend still

enjoys my pit smell and nobody shuns me on days that I don’t wear pheromones.

3) I've

been seducing one of my female friends, and everytime we sit around and talk she is very touchy, always finds a way

to shift the topic to sex and looks into my eyes forever. Of course I encourage it as much as I can. However, when

we talk on the phone she is completely different, irritable and sounds annoyed.
Is this a typical "withdrawal

syndrome" from pheros ? I solve the problem by spending as little time as possible on the phone, but it would be

interesting to know other peoples experiences and possible work-arounds.

I’ve experienced this many

times. Hate to break it to you, but what it most likely means is that your friend isn’t interested in your

personality or the things you have to say. She’s all about the (pheromone enhanced) moments of proximity and is

probably irritated that you’re trying to get some kind of validation out of her when she just wants to sample the

goods.

4) While pheros seem to be working great for me, I really don't want to wear them

all the time or all my life. I hear that if you change your "pheromone signature", girlfriends tend to get upset and

ditch you (and I might have experienced something like this). How can you counteract this? Perhaps I could gradually

lower my none 'dosage' over the course of a year or something?

If a woman wants to ditch you when

you’re not pheromone enhanced it’s a blessing in disguise. An even worse scenario is when she nags and gripes and

gets into all kinds of moods trying to force some satisfaction out of a relationship that basically had nothing more

than pheromones going for it.
The best way to counteract this is to go several days without pheromones

before developing any strong attachments to her.
The important thing to note is that relationships built on

pure instinct don’t really last — whether you use synthetic pheromones or not. If a long term relationships is your

goal, your strategy should be to use pheromones as a means for finding a woman that shares your goals, values and

priorities.

5) I'm only wearing -none at the moment, and this has some negative

impacts on my friendship with other males. Therefore I recently aquired some unscented SOE. Again, there's the

"signature change" problem. How do you guys do when you're experimenting with different mixes?

Signature changes don’t seem to create any problems for me. Sometimes I get a comment like, “You seem different

today.” But nobody shuns me unless I OD or wear a bad mix.
The important thing is to wear pheromones that make

people feel good around you. Whether they feel good because you seem open and trustworthy (SOE); strong, stable and

reliable (chikara); fun, edgy and daring (NPA)... or whatever seems irrelevant to the primary goal of being popular

and well liked.
If none is having negative impacts on your friends, I bet you’re wearing too much. But there

is also the (slim) possibility that none is simply not for you.

6) The old none + nol mix

seemed to be better on certain women, and I wonder if a mix of New Pheromone Additive (NPA) + SOE would be

comparable. Afaik NPA is only androstenone right? And SOE is nol + rone?

NPA + SOE is a good combo,

but I don’t think there’s any way to predict how it will work on a specific woman.

7)

Do you think that phero colognes are really a good idea in the long run, or do they just allow you to "play out of

your league" for a short while?

Pheromones let you play at a deeper level, which tends to broaden

the playing field.
Whether or not they’re a good idea depends on how you play them and what your long term

objectives are.
If you believe that somewhere in this world there is a woman just for you, and if you meet

her everything will click and you’ll live happily ever after... Or if you believe that hard work and talent are all

it takes to be successful... pheromones are a bad idea.
If you believe that life is a competition for

survival and the propagation of your genes, then synthetic pheromones are a godsend.
If your world-view

lies somewhere in between these two extremes, pheromones are a neat little tool. Just practice moderation and don’t

pick up any destructive habits.

9) How do you figure out the most suitable phero combo to

wear, considering your natural phero signature? Pure trial and error seems pretty risky since this is powerful stuff

and you never know when you're going to run into Her.

At the beginning it’s all trial and error

but, as you gain experience, you develop a sense of how these chemicals work. You develop an intuitive grasp of how

to combine things and you’re less likely to create a really bad impression.
Really bad OD’s are part of the

learning process and they’re never the end of the world. There’s always the opportunity to make things better

another day.

[Johnny]

Hate to break it to

you, but what it most likely means is that your friend isn’t interested in your personality or the things you have

to say.

Wierd. Because she seems to be interested in me, at least when we meet in person, but I guess that

could still be the mones and my seduction skills... We do talk about lots of things and have the same views on many

topics and we fit quite good together; afterall, we were friends for quite some time before I decided to take it one

step further. And it's usually her who's calling me.

Maybe I just suck at phone conversation. I guess when I

meet her in person I have a much more clearly defined goal of making her horny so it's easier to stay calm and

focused and know what to say

[a.k.a.]

Wierd. afterall, we

were friends for quite some time before I decided to take it one step further.

Yes that is weird

and I’ve never had experience turning friends into lovers, so I could be all wrong. But everything else sounds all

too familiar: common interests, calling me up, lots of touching, lots of gazing into my eyes, always turning the

topic to sex ... Then on the phone it’s complete apathy or worse: irritability, impatience, comments like “You sound

weird.”, “Who are you talking to?”, “Are you sick?”...
The way I tested it out is by not wearing pheromones

in their presence. If the woman is less sexual but basically friendly and interested, I figure she basically likes

me and pheromones just turn up the heat. If there seems to be a weird personality reversal I figure she’s just been

showing me her game face.
And it’s not always a clear cut correlation of pheromones = sex, lack of pheromones

= no sex. I’ve been in situations where women will still have sex if I’m not pheromone enhanced but they turn

grumpy, moody, irritable and have no interest in doing any of the non-sexual things I like to do. That’s why I

always try to draw the distinction between game face and genuine interest.

Maybe I just

suck at phone conversation.

It takes two to make a conversation. So this sounds rather unlikely.

What were your phone conversations like before you started using pheros? And does everybody seem to get irritable on

the phone with you, or is it just her?
I’ve noticed that androstenone makes many women feel like I’m

showing sexual interest when I’m just trying to be friendly. So another possibility might be that your friend is

reading all kinds of sexuall signals in your face-to-face converseations. Then she gets frustrated when these

signals don't show up in your phone conversations.

Either way... The discrepancy between phone and

personal conversation seems like a pretty sure sign that the main effect of pheromones isn’t on the wearer.