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  1. #1
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    Default phenomenally pheromonal molecular hybrid hypothesis

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    PREFACE: Hello, I'm the archetypical hybrid

    (HEC)

    I'm a student majoring in neuropharmacology, organic chemistry, chemical &

    mechanical engineering, and I'm conducting some private research on phenomenal pheromones as described

    hereafter.


    For your referances:
    androsta-4,16-dien-3-one =

    androstadienone
    5α-androstan-3-one =

    androstAnone

    5α-androst-16-en-3-one = androstenone
    4-androsten-3-one

    = 4-androstenone

    Based upon the quantitative structure-property relationships I've studied for

    steroids which are active at the human female VNO, I believe that 4-ANDROSTEN-3-ONE (DESOXYTESTOSTERONE), may be

    very active at the human female VNO. This hypothesis is derived from the fact that only two pheromones:

    androsta-4,16-dien-3-one, and 5α-androstan-3-one are significantly active at the human female

    VNO [as substantiated by an Erox study long ago titled: the sixth sense].

    5α-androstan-3-one is a saturated analogue of 5α-androst-16-en-3-one (a pig

    pheromone), which has an alkene group at the 16th carbon of the prototypical skeletal molecule.



    5α-androst-16-en-3-one does not target the human female VNO, whereas

    5α-androstan-3-one does; the only difference being the alkene group at the 16th carbon. Now,

    androsta-4,16-dien-3-one, an analogue of 5α-androst-16-en-3-one is very active at the human

    female VNO, the only difference between the two being an alkene group at the 4th carbon.




    From logical deduction and

    quantitative structure-property relationships, I assert the following:

    A) An alkene group at the 3rd carbon of

    the skeletal molecule dramatically increases activity at the VNO

    B) A fully saturated group at the 16th-17th

    carbons also significantly increases activity.

    EPILOGUE: Therefore, it is my hypothesis that

    4-androsten-3-one, as a molecular hybrid containing the most desired substitutions may be very active at the human

    female VNO, more so than the archetypical androsta-4,16-dien-3-one. If possible I ask for you good folks within this

    esoteric paradigm to voice your opinion with respect to this hypothesis.
    Last edited by Archetypical Hybrid (HEC); 04-21-2006 at 06:47 PM.

  2. #2
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Default Esoteric info

    Please comment on any

    recent research that you may be familiar with that in any way indicates the human VNO is important to pheromonal

    effects? I don't know of any olfactory researchers who are much interested, if at all, in pursuing its hypothetical

    function. Besides, we've already learned that the main olfactory system is involved in pheromone detection in

    several mammalian species that don't require a VNO to respond to pheromones with changes in

    behavior.

    JVK

  3. #3
    Visionary7903
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    Hi Mr.

    Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)


    Good to see an interesting post like that




    Androsta-4,16-dien-3-one (A1) and estra-1,3,5(10),16-tetraen-3-ol (Estratetraenol) were

    both shown to activate the VNO according to Erox's studies (they do have the patent on the two compounds though):

    [FONT=Arial]http://www.erox.com/SixthSense/StoryOne.html[

    /FONT]


    You wrote that 5α-androstan-3-one activates the human VNO but I have not seen any

    literature supporting this assertion on the internet. In any case we can test what this compound does in real-life

    as we now have AndrostAnone (the same pheromone as 5α-androstan-3-one?) available to buy as a chemistry set

    item:

    http:

    //www.love-scent.com/product_info.php/p/androstanone/products_id/102?SID


    As for your

    hypothesis that "4-androsten-3-one, as a molecular hybrid containing the most desired substitutions may be very

    active at the human female VNO, more so than the archetypical androsta-4,16-dien-3-one", well maybe someone can get

    ahold of this 4-androsten-3-one and test it out. I know Steraloids.com has the compound: Item number A7098-000

    ...


    Visionary

  4. #4
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    Wink

    JVK,

    The scope of my research is strictly

    from a pharmacological standpoint with respect specifically to the vomeronasal organ. The scope of my research

    within this realm of pharmacology is typically drug-design, and tweaking of the molecular structures so as to more

    selectively or more significantly target a specific neuroreceptor; or, in this case, the VNO. The implications of

    this organ, or its physiological response when triggered, I leave to you to interpret.

    However, I am also

    interested to learn of the physiological effects which activation of the VNO evokes; please enlighten me! I was

    under the belief that this organ was the most significant in mammalian pheromonal systems; is this a

    fallacy?

  5. #5
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    Visionary,

    As for your hypothesis that

    "4-androsten-3-one, as a molecular hybrid containing the most desired substitutions may be very active at the human

    female VNO, more so than the archetypical androsta-4,16-dien-3-one", well maybe someone can get ahold of this

    4-androsten-3-one and test it out. I know Steraloids.com has the compound: Item number A7098-000

    ...


    Unfortunately, steraloids does not have this product in stock (it has to

    be made to order). I've asked Trevor if he would be willing to synthesize a small batch affordably or even out of

    curiosity! - He has not yet responded, and I eagerly await his notice!


    As for

    5α-androstan-3-one, look in the original Erox studies. See the following URL:

    http://www.erox.com/SixthSense/StoryOne.html, in which the

    impulse responses for which various steroidal substances evoke upon the human female VNO is displayed, via a

    graphical chart.


    PS. Consider that if and when I do obtain this

    4-androstenone, I plan to test the impulse response, using an electrogram at a nearby university, utilizing a VNO

    tissue sample immersed in a bath of nutrients; an extension of the original Erox study in virtually identical

    conditions.


    PSS. I'm looking into analogues of estratetraenol as well...

  6. #6
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Archetypical Hybrid

    (HEC)
    JVK,

    However, I am also

    interested to learn of the physiological effects which activation of the VNO evokes; please enlighten me! I was

    under the belief that this organ was the most significant in mammalian pheromonal systems; is this a

    fallacy?
    You may want to look at the Scientific Evidence page of my domain for

    background info. Here's part of one abstract from the conference I will attend next week. Several other abstracts

    attest to the lack of concern regarding a functional human VNO. I have no idea whose research you've followed,

    since no current data supports extension of your belief to humans, and most of the importance of the VNO to other

    mammals is repeatedly being questioned, as is indicated below in female mice.

    VOLATILE, SEX-SPECIFIC URINARY

    ODORS DETECTED BY THE MAIN OLFACTORY EPITHELIUM AUGMENT FOS EXPRESSION IN THE ACCESSORY OLFACTORY BULB OF FEMALE

    MICE
    Martel K.L. Botros J. Baum M.J.
    Bilateral lesions of the main olfactory epithelium induced by ZnSO4

    irrigation of the nares eliminated the ability of volatile male urinary odors to stimulate Fos expression in the AOB

    and the MOB, suggesting that the ability of volatile male odors to activate the femaleĀ“s AOB normally depends on

    their detection by the main olfactory epithelium as opposed to the vomeronasal organ.



    JVK

  7. #7
    Phero Dude
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    Default

    excuse me while I get my pointy

    hat...
    early 40's white male or or

  8. #8
    Visionary7903
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    Archetypical Hybrid

    (HEC)

    keep us updated of your findings. I mean pheromones don't necessarily have to activate the VNO

    substantially to work well (think of Androsterone and Alpha-Androstenol) but the two that do a great job at

    activating the VNO according to the Erox studies (Androstadienone and Estratetraenol) are both great mones (well

    Estra is new but reviews have been good to great so far). So there MAY be something to activating the VNO for

    REAL-LIFE results even if it is not validated by science.

    So keep us updated on results you get from

    4-androsten-3-one and analogues of estratetraenol both in the lab and in real-life...

    Visionary






    Quote Originally Posted by Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)
    Visionary,



    Unfortunately,

    steraloids does not have this product in stock (it has to be made to order). I've asked Trevor if he would be

    willing to synthesize a small batch affordably or even out of curiosity! - He has not yet responded, and I eagerly

    await his notice!


    As for 5α-androstan-3-one, look in the original Erox studies. See the

    following URL:

    http://www.erox.com/SixthSense/StoryOne.html, in which the

    impulse responses for which various steroidal substances evoke upon the human female VNO is displayed, via a

    graphical chart.


    PS. Consider that if and when I do obtain this

    4-androstenone, I plan to test the impulse response, using an electrogram at a nearby university, utilizing a VNO

    tissue sample immersed in a bath of nutrients; an extension of the original Erox study in virtually identical

    conditions.


    PSS. I'm looking into analogues of estratetraenol as well...

  9. #9
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    hardy har

    har

  10. #10
    Journeyman gklite's Avatar
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    Mr. Archetypical

    Hybrid

    How can you major in neuropharmacology with mechanical engineering???

  11. #11
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    I already have

    a degree in mechanical and chemical engineering, and am now pursuing a degree in neuroscience

    Thank

    you for your careful scrutiny and disparagement; your concerns are appreciated

  12. #12
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    Default Estrenes for inducing hypothalamic effects

    @Archetypical Hybrid (HEC)
    Would Vomeropherins A, C, D, E12/N1 & E8/N1 be useful for males?

    How do I find the trivial names & CAS no. of the chemicals (if they do exists)?

    Thanks.

    i2w

    Estrenes for inducing hypothalamic

    effects

    [url]http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5633392.html?s_id=25a1612519fd658844968b63e6f1d01c[/url

    ]

    BLUE = pro-males
    RED =

    pro-females


    A = 1, 3, 5(10),16-Estratetraen-3-yl acetate


    B = Androsta-4,16-dien-3-one (i.e. A1) [VNO-1

    ]
    C = 1,3,5(10),16-Estratetraen-3-ol (i.e.

    EST
    )
    D = 3-Methoxy-Estra-1,3,5(10),16-tetraene
    E =

    Androsta-4,16-dien-3.alpha.-ol
    F = Androsta-4,16-dien-3.beta.-ol
    G =

    Androst-4-en-3-one
    H = Androsta-4,16-diene-3,6-dione
    J = 10,17-Dimethylgona-4,13(17)-dien-3-one
    K =

    1,3,5(10),16-Estratetraen-3-ol-methyl ether [E0723-080 Steraloids]
    L =

    1,3,5(10),16-Estratetraen-3-yl-propionate
    M = 1,3,5(10)-Estratrien-3-ol [R187798

    Aldrich
    ]

    E12/N1 = Estra-1,3,5(10),16-tetraen-3,6.beta.-diol
    E8/N1

    = 3-MethoxyEstra-2,5(10),16-triene

    E7/N1 = 10-HydroxyEstra-4,16-dien-3-one

    OE =

    olfactory epithelium
    CNS = central nervous system
    EVG = Electro-vomeronasogram
    EOG =

    Electro-olfactgram


    EFFECTS ON THE EVG

    - A, C and D produced

    significant effects, that were consistent in all individual cases (males).

    - Vomeropherins active in male

    subjects produced larger responses than the diluent. B, F and similar concentrations of

    olfactants induced significantly magentauced responses in the male VNO.

    - Among the vomeropherins, F

    produced the most significant differences within the group (females). Here, A induced a small effect that was

    significantly different from F.

    - In both populations of subjects, active vomeropherins induced receptor

    responses having large standard deviations. When the frequency distribution of the effects of A and F was studied in

    males and females respectively, we found a bimodal distribution. The significance of this observation is being

    studied at this point.

    E, a stereoisomer of F, does not stimulate the VNO in female subjects while

    F does. This is a demonstration of the specificity of VNO recognition of vomeropherins. In this

    regard it is interesting to note that while F is a superior vomeropherin, E generates a stronger

    olfactory effect than does F.


    EFFECTS ON THE EOG

    - In contrast to the sensitivity of the

    VNO to vomeropherins, the OE is less sensitive to these substances. This is true for both males and females.



    - In this study, B was the only vomeropherin having significant effect in the OE.

    - This

    finding reveals that at the concentrations used in our study, most vomeropherins are not effective stimulants of the

    olfactory receptors, but do have a clear effect on vomeronasal receptors.


    REFLEX EFFECTS

    -

    A and C induced a significant increase in skin temperature in 30 male subjects; however D

    induced significant temperature decrease.

    - In 30 female subjects, B and F evoked a significant

    increase in skin temperature
    compamagenta to A and C.

    - In males, A, C and D

    significantly increased alpha cortical activity (D and A evoked the strongest effect).

    -

    In females, B or F applied to the VNO increased alpha cortical independent of the response of

    olfactory receptors.

    - The steroid E12/N1 exhibited the best EEG-alpha

    activity in men
    . The steroid E8/N1 exhibited the best EEG-beta activity

    in men
    .

    - The steroid E7/N1 exhibited the best EEG-alpha activity in women.

    Additionally, it is noted that E7/N1 exhibited excellent organ response, as shown by the EVG

    data, in both men and women, but there were gender differences in the CNS (high EEG-alpha in women, high EEG-beta in

    men).

    Sexual differences were noted in the specificities and effects of two groups of vomeropherins,

    A, C and D; and B and F.
    Everything begins with an attitude.

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    Dear good sir,



    Please PM me with specific requests; I'm an expert within the discipline of chemical nomenclature and have

    access to great quantites of data: ie. Chemical nomenclature, pharmacodynamics, pharmacokinetics, struture activity

    relationships, supplier databases, etc.

  14. #14
    Phero Enthusiast Icehawk's Avatar
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    Default

    So how does one PM HEC???

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    which

    substance are you looking for?

    PS.. The new "BLUE" alpha-test was substance F as described above..

  16. #16
    Phero Enthusiast Icehawk's Avatar
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    E7/N1 =

    10-HydroxyEstra-4,16-dien-3-one this stuff dosent seem to exist on the web.

  17. #17
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    I like that you're thinking

    about it at this level, HEC! You go, guy!
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  18. #18
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    E7/N1 =

    10-HydroxyEstra-4,16-dien-3-one this stuff dosent seem to exist on the web.
    Alas, you are correct. The

    closest relatives which are available with the 4,16-dien substitutions are: 4,16-estradien-3alpha-ol and

    4,16-estradien-3-one..

    It could probably be made, but would need a custom synthesis (which is about $2,000)..



    If either of the three aforementioned possibilites are of interest, contact Bruce to get the ball rolling..

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