Don't play games, it isn't worth all the trouble.

[happyman]

I have been reading some posts here. Folks say, you gotta be hard to get, rare and leave em wanting

more, elusive at times. This puts me to mind of my one buddy from back home when we used to go out all the time

scouting chics. He was was too far with all this. We would go out and about and sometimes he would want to purposely

show up late, leave early, avoid certain places, not go somewhere two nights in a row because it may make him look

like a loser with no where eles to go. He would not call girls back till like the next day just to act, I don't

know, like he is busy doing other things or something. I have seen this approach and advice on here as well. Who has

time for all that? It just really isn't worth it. Why not be real?

-I say eh....I say, if you see a

chic....go work your way in. Be confident, smooth, and just rap to a chic about what ever. Why play games, you know.

It may take one time, two times, hell a month or so (just don't miss your window of opportunity) then just ask her

to do something with you. If she is interested she will probably go (but not 100% of the time).

If she says

no-
Give it a bit and ask her to go somewhere eles next time or whenever.

If she says no again maybe I

would ease up and let it ride. Or who knows. I knew a dude that would ask a girl out almost every day. She would say

no. Finally one day she went. Well guess what....now they are married. True Story. It all depends on the situation

and the feeling you get from it. There really are no rules. Do whatever is in your heart without exposing your heart

and being a gooey idiot.

But don't ever purposely not go somewhere, not call a chic back right away, just to

avoid what it may look like or in order to seem more rare or something.. Live your life. Be yourself and if you are

interested show interest without being too much over board with it. If she is not interested and it isn't worth

your time, or in your heart to pursue it just say screw it and keep doing your thing.

The way I see it no

matter WHAT a chic thinks, or acts like keep doing your thing, how you were going to do it, where you were going to

do it just as you would of anyway. Yes, you gotta be confident, hell even cocky, you gotta show her you the man

(without seeming over-board or like it is some big act), you know.... I am all for it and realize that 100%.

However: All this don't show up on time, don't go somewhere two nights in a row, don't call back right away, is

for phoneys and kids and really gets you no-where in the end.

Just my Opinion. Any input?

Happy

[CptKipling]

First two questions:



Honestly, when you see a woman you like what are your immediate goals? What do you want? What do you REALLY want?

Name more than one if you like.

What really is being genuine? If a girl puts on make-up, is that being phony?

What about wearing pheromones? How about thinking about what you say before you say it?


I respect everything

that you said, but I can't help but feel that you are missing the point slightly.

I agree on this

though:

All this don't show up on time, don't go somewhere two nights in a row,

That's just weird.

Not calling right away can be a good thing though, ever seen "Swingers"? Check out the scene where Mike calls the

girl who he just got the number from.

In general, what you are suggesting is giving away all of your power in

the hope that she might like you. You might as well be telling us to gift wrap our balls, hand them to her and say,

"Please love me". At times I thought you were kidding; you honestly think that pursuing a woman for months before

she gives you anything (I'm NOT talking about sex) is normal?

And you actually contradict yourself, you say

that you SHOULDN'T play hard to get, but that you shouldn't expose you heart... What about if you or her think

that you love the other person really early, should you tell them?

Anyway, I'd be interested to read your

reply.

[happyman]

I didn't mean don't show her

your heart as in "I'm in love with you" at this point. I mean, go with your heart, let her know you know you are

genuinely interested and want to get something going.

As far as calling right away I mean next day is fine.

My friend, the one you think is pretty wierd, would wait like a few days. That's fine, if your busy or feel you

need to let it simmer a bit but I think if you get a chics number on Saturday, calling Sunday some time is fine.



"Gift Wrapping Balls"........eh. Here we go again. It isn't about all that to me really. It is about being

real with you actions. If she is not interested, say cool then, no-problem, and keep going or doing your thing.

Waisting time playing hard to get is .....well a waist of time. I am not saying putting you balls on a chopping

block for her. I am not saying see my heart on my sleeve, this says I am nuts over you and wanna get anything going

I can. That is weak. And for the weak. Even if you do feel that way don't show it entirely. I am saying show

interest, make som e moves, and make a good attempt. If she responds well and is into it great. If she doesn't drop

her. Unless you feel she needs time.

And yes, there is another guy from my home town, that was into a chic

for like, months. At parties, at the bar. She really paid him no mind. she neer told him to buzz off. She just paid

him no mind really. Well his patience paid off. He eventually got her. This was like.....geez, a year or so.



So you know. He knew her, they spoke a little. She didn't give him much the time of day except Hi Brian,

how ya doin. She would have a casual conversation with him some without being rude. Everyone knew he was into her. I

KNOW she did too. She just seemed too busy for him or something. So you CAN work on a chic over long periods of

time. It just depends on the vibe.

The KEY is she never seemed bothered really, just never really, cared much

about it. If a chic seems bothered, then leave her be.

Bottum line is to go for it, without seeming needy.

Why waist time. Show interest and ask her to do something whenever. This hard to get stuff, eh. Just don't show her

you rely on her what-so-ever. Show her you'll live your life as you always have.

Clearing up my thoughts

for you?

Happy

[belgareth]

Good thoughts happy man. I like

the way you approach things.

[happyman]

Good thoughts

happy man. I like the way you approach

things.

__________________________________________________ __________

Why thank you.

You

know, I tried playing hard to get before. Many Times. Most of the time it back-fired. In the end we both were

playing hard to get....and getting no-where.

I think acting as if you are interested, but it isn't going to

ruin your entire day if she isn't is the route you wanna go. I mean, I would show some slight dissapointment. You

don't wanna make it seem like your searching for crayfish and you give the act like , no-welp no cray-fish under

that rock, next. You gotta make them feel they are more than a "number" or something. And you know, then do your

thing. Half the time they will come back and show interest in you. Thing is, it is just an interest based on you

moved your interests ele where and nothing major will become of it cause as soon as you show you are interested

again she will more than likely (not always) go the other way.

There is a better approach than playing the

hard to get thing, which is, in itself a game to me. It is being confident, real, and smooth, yet un-daunted and

un-scathed by a womens reactions in the end if she rejects your offer.

That is what being a Man is all about.

In time she may realise she is dealing with a man and choose you over some punk, or ass when she sees how you handle

it, or handle her rejection (likie I say you gotta show you a for a bit or at-least momentarily dissapointed at her

rejection to take you up on your offer, you can't act like "What yes or no. Ok it is no. Next. Just a numbers game

to me). Just don't be a baby about it. And this will save you so much time, and needless effort. And if it is gonna

happen, or she is interested in you at all it will.

****REMEMBER BOYS (and GIRLS): They gotta like YOU, for

being YOU, more over than all those other hard - to - get, this guy is a bad-boy, or I am confused because I don't

know what is up with him features.

And if she doesn't wanna be bothered with it. Fuck her, you know. lol

Seriously though.

Happy

[belgareth]

That's pretty much the

approach and attitude I've been preaching for a long time and the one I take with people. It works, it's honest

and you don't have to worry about keeping everything sorted out.

Glad to see another person with that

approach.

[Gegogi]

Sounds good if you're serious

about a relationship. I normally pursue that course. Nevertheless, sometimes you just want to be a brainless

smooth-talkin' dick and diddle women folk before sliding off into the night. Just don't forget you're merely

diddling and going nowhere fast. It's almost impossible to replace diddling with sincere courtin' and be treated

for real.

[happyman]

Sounds good if

you're serious about a relationship. I normally pursue that course. Nevertheless, sometimes you just want to be a

brainless smooth-talkin' dick and diddle women folk before sliding off into the night. Just don't forget you're

merely diddling and going nowhere fast. It's almost impossible to replace diddling with sincere courtin' and be

treated for real.

__________________________________________________ ___________

No-No. Don't

get me wrong. Smooth talking is FANTASTIC. There is no other way to go about it Bro. You gotta be smooth. Without

acting like your Billy Dee Williams or something. Sure you can play a little, flirt, hold your-self till next time

before making a move. Hell that is what it is all about. You can't be all into her 110% and acting as if you are

trying to, I don't know, say, "court" this chic. That is stiff, and too 1940's or something. Talk the talk, flirt,

and if you are pretty darn sure you will see her again shortly maybe waiting to really make an advancement or asking

her out is best. It all depends how you wanna go about it.

You HAVE to go into a mode of confidence and

focus. Not so much on her, but on your goals in life, and your direction in life. They Pick up on that big time,

without you saying anything.

If you want to leave ittill next time because you think it will pay off do it.

If you think you better not waist any more time. Do it. It all depends on getting her, and what the best plan of

action is, given the particualr situation at hand.

But playing a game just to create a curtain of confusion

between you and her like not calling her back....or whatever is senseless.

See your interactions with a chic

has to be a nice mix on what your feeling, and what is going on around you two, and how she is

responding.

Take all those things into consideration and move on it. If it requires more patience....so be

it. If you feel like the time is right withing five minutes of meeting her....so be it.

But purposeful games

for nothing is, well, kinda immature at least in my eyes.

Happy

[Gegogi]

For me smooth talkin' is a game.

It's acting and not the real me. Creating a persona for the occasion. Dazzle them with BS. Is it immature? Not

really. I do it in the professional world too. Act, walk and smell like a pro even though you know you're a hack.

It gets you brownie points and promotions. If I really said what I want she'd hit the bricks fast: 'listen honey,

I'm a perv and wanta lick your armpits, mow your lawn and beat your bushes." Now I have vocalized my true

intentions (while under a controlled substance) a few times and got reactions ranging from wild laugher to a 100

yard dash. Not very effective when you're merely looking for a good time and avoiding sincere communication and

substance.

Of course you have to be extremely confident to pull off such "games" and be a skilled actor. I

don't do it as much as I used except at work--I act like a learned scholar everyday although I'm just a perv. It

takes a lot of energy to kept up the charade.

[gaf]

"listen honey, I'm a perv and wanta

lick your armpits, mow your lawn and beat your bushes."

excellent!
thanks for the laugh, thats the funniest

thing I've read for a while...

[happyman]

For me smooth

talkin' is a game. It's acting and not the real me. Creating a persona for the occasion. Dazzle them with BS. Is

it immature? Not really. I do it in the professional world too. Act, walk and smell like a pro even though you know

you're a hack. It gets you brownie points and promotions. If I really said what I want she'd hit the bricks fast:

'listen honey, I'm a perv and wanta lick your armpits, mow your lawn and beat your bushes." Now I have vocalized

my true intentions (while under a controlled substance) a few times and got reactions ranging from wild laugher to a

100 yard dash. Not very effective when you're merely looking for a good time and avoiding sincere communication and

substance.

Of course you have to be extremely confident to pull off such "games" and be a skilled actor. I

don't do it as much as I used except at work--I act like a learned scholar everyday although I'm just a perv. It

takes a lot of energy to kept up the

charade.

__________________________________________________ ____________

Well...., lol that is

MAYBE what you might pull if the vibe was right.
But, you know, trouble is, 9 out of 10 chics don't wanna hear

it from that approach. A few here and again, but the over-welming majority do not want to be talked to like that. At

least not when just meeting them.

So. You gotta kinda go with the vibe, and talk the talk. Sure be yourself

dude....just BE SMOOTH. See being smooth isn't so much like sayin "hey sugar, hows that drink treaten ya. Maybe we

can hook up for a min and discuss matters"

It is saying what you normally would, with a sure, confident tone,

and flirting a little on the edges. Say what you normally would. Just treat it a little smoother. that's all. Thats

no game really. That is just talkin to them like they want to be talked to. But, you know keep being yourself all

through that, just be confident, flow, and flirt aroun the edges. That's all smooth talkin is Bro.

Happy

[Gegogi]

I think you completely missed my

point. Of course you can't say anything that pops in your head. Duh. That's why I said it doesn't normally work

and only an intoxicated idiot would bother to try. Although I must say I occasionally enjoy doing it merely to

observe the shocked look on their face.

As a professional musician I long ago learned to quickly turn my

emotions, or at least outward expressions of emotion, on and off in front of crowds. You read the audience and give

them what they want. Successful human interactions require much the same sort of skills. Who you are and what you

feel doesn't matter if you talk the talk and walk the walk. You learn to play the game and cop the role. Nothing

wrong with that. I do it all the time on stage, in the classroom, in meetings and on the street. You are acting a

role designed to draw specific reactions whether it be amorous, social or professional. Being yourself--a stinky,

lazy, beer guzzling hornytoad--doesn't cut for most folks (hide it until after marriage). And, yes, these daily

acting sessions are a game. It's called life. We learn when it is approproate to act funny, hostile, polite, holy,

kind or loving. And we usually do these things whether we feel like it ot not. If you're better at it you get

further down the road of success.

And "talkin to them like they want to be talked to" sounds like

salesmanship and acting just as much as walking with a swagger, pretending to be cocky 'n confident, vocalizing a

macho timbre, dropping names or flashing bling. You play the game to impress in order to achieve a certain result,

e.g., ass, validation, fear, etc. It works well for me both professionally, socially and sexually. And I don't know

any successful men that haven't mastered acting; that is, a deliberate and focused presentation of their desired

persona.

[MOBLEYC57]

Mobleys thoughts: Happy, anytime

you change anything that's normal for you and it has to do with dealing with a feline ... you're playing a GAME.



Kind of like a man or woman that has more than one lover, and they're out talking about how they are RUNNING

things. Anytime YOU have to change your schedule or do things out of your norm/program ... you're NOT running

things, you're getting run.

Your example above ... asking a woman out and she says NO. No means no, but

you ask again some other day = playing the HOPE SHE CHANGES HER MIND GAME. It's all playing GAMEs ... you're just

trying to give it/make it fit YOUR definition.

This is just Mobley's thought on the subject. Now ... What's

really bothering you?

[DrSmellThis]

Any time you can be coming

from a real place on something, you've "won the game" and can quit "playing".

[bronzie]

there are 2 ways to approach

things with women, first is seduction, it works, and gets you the piece you want, when i say piece i mean the

gorgeous woman that you desire. secondly thier is the approach that happyman is suggesting, and be yourself whatever

the circumstances.

fact is, happyman is right, although the first approach, you call it games, i call it

seduction through technique will get you the woman, the spell will wear off, ive done it to many girls and the spell

does wear off and it can backlash on your self esteem when you keep on getting dumped with women that you have

seduced, and it hurts, as many a man can attest. What happyman suggests is , this is who I am, this is what you get,

this is what i am about, if you dont like it, then please dont waste my time because it will not last, and will just

cause both suffering in the end. I agree with happyman, but for one thing, you have to adapt to each woman that you

meet, otherwise you will not understand each other and again it will not last, this does not mean that you have to

play games or lie or manipulate, just simple respect.

i have read david deida works and books, he is on the

same path as what happyman says, and differs from what some of the pick up gurus say you have to do inorder to score

and be successful with women.

[happyman]

there are 2 ways

to approach things with women, first is seduction, it works, and gets you the piece you want, when i say piece i

mean the gorgeous woman that you desire. secondly thier is the approach that happyman is suggesting, and be yourself

whatever the circumstances.

fact is, happyman is right, although the first approach, you call it games, i

call it seduction through technique will get you the woman, the spell will wear off, ive done it to many girls and

the spell does wear off and it can backlash on your self esteem when you keep on getting dumped with women that you

have seduced, and it hurts, as many a man can attest. What happyman suggests is , this is who I am, this is what you

get, this is what i am about, if you dont like it, then please dont waste my time because it will not last, and will

just cause both suffering in the end. I agree with happyman, but for one thing, you have to adapt to each woman that

you meet, otherwise you will not understand each other and again it will not last, this does not mean that you have

to play games or lie or manipulate, just simple respect.

i have read david deida works and books, he is on

the same path as what happyman says, and differs from what some of the pick up gurus say you have to do inorder to

score and be successful with

women.

__________________________________________________ ____________

Thank you for your input.

Yeah, I mean, you can seduce in your OWN way. If you are a silly type of guy, be a little silly with it. If you are

a macho type of guy, be kinda macho with it. If you are a serious type of dude, try and put a serious spin with

your approach. Be yourself, be confident, smooth, and handle it YOUR way is all. They will know where you are coming

from.

Now big question for me:

Is there a difference between actually "seducing" a woman verses

picking a women up /hitting on them? I suppose there is now that I am reading it. I never knew there was a

difference. I thought they all entailed the same elements. But am I getting the idea they are two entiely different

approaches and techniques? I never, and still don't, know how to seduce. I just try and get a conversation started,

play around and flirt a little, talk, ask questions, and throw in some humor, and some flirting and if she is into

it, I guess shoot for her number or ask to go somewhere or something along that approach method. I just have fun

with it in that aspect of approaching, with out seeming like you know, it is too rehearsed, if I can help it. I like

to have fun with it. This is kinda how I have always done it. I don't act like yeah this is all in a night out, who

knows, or anything but I am you know, not too serious. I just talk. About what-ever. I never think to give hidden

inuendo's or subliminal messages to what I am saying. I will make a little joke here and again if something sexual

comes up, and flirt a little about something sexual but I never really try and have anything too hidden between the

lines. I am fairly confident with it all and that is what I do. That is all I ever have done. I thought this was all

you had to do. It is natural for me. That is my approach. Having, the "what you see is what you get approach"

with-out seeming too ...., you know, flat out.... here is my chart on the type of person I am. But I will admit it

IS direct. Very direct. I don't act ashamed or timid with who I am or what I am about AT ALL. But, in being honest,

Nine times out of ten it really doesn't go anywhere after that initial night we met and I got the number. A good

half or at-least a third of the time they will give me their number. Not all but a good percentage there. But then

when I call it seems they are not interested and do not act quite like they did when I initially met them.



Am I missing the real deal?

Happyman

[KeepItReal]

Personally I think all

"beautiful" women are playing their own games ..... so you have to play yours just to have any chance ....



However, what you talk about can and does work with the lesser attractive variety .....but who wants those

!!

[Gegogi]

Personally I think all

"beautiful" women are playing their own games ..... so you have to play yours just to have any chance

....

Gaming is part of being human. Even lower mammals play games with one another and other species. My

cat loved to catch birds, turn them loose only to swoop down on them again. He wasn't hungry but greatly enjoyed

the tease, torture and exercise. Humans are no different. I love to flirt and tease women but usually have no

intention of going any further. It keeps the chops sharp, is fun and strokes your ego. Attractive women can get away

with a lot more than me, but that's how life is. You just need to learn when to draw the line and walk away when it

ain't fun anymore.

[bronzie]

Personally I

think all "beautiful" women are playing their own games ..... so you have to play yours just to have any chance ....



However, what you talk about can and does work with the lesser attractive variety .....but who wants those

!!

dude, I dont believe this to be true, often you will find very attractive women, almost a 10,

model material with guys who are just very average looking, and they dont go for thier money, fact is this, women in

this day and age have been lied too, mainpulated and sh*t talked by so many guys in thier past, and im talking about

beautiful women here, that once they find a MAN, and i say man because a real man is true stright, that once they

find this genuine Man they will stick to him because they feel secure in what he is.

Its natural Law, just as

the sun rises and sets everyday, if you lie, play games, manipulate the same will come back to you, its called

Karma. You will either get dumped or will lead a very unhappy life with the girl you do this too.

I am not

saying dont flirt and act as your god given right in courtship, but do not go against the natural law to "win" with

lies etc some prize that you want out of delusion, and for the sake of some power trip and to quench your sexual

desires. It simply doesnt lead to a happy ending for you.

I have seen many a guy, hot shot in his youth,

successful with woman in thier 30s unhappy and hitting the bottle as a form of escape from all the deception they

did, your conciounse gets you in the end, so does Karma.

Just what i believe in...

[fingers]

I'm a

closet beginner Love-Scent Member.

A womans first response isn't always true. Especially to her. She may have

been thinking about neutering her beloved cat when you approached her, and that has affected her answer. Never

assume that a woman says no the first time because of what you said. I tend to follow the 3 strike rule.

You just need to learn when to draw the line and walk away when it ain't fun anymore.

I

think this is the point where we all should aim to be at. Most approaches fail because the woman can sense the

neediness in the man. Most men psych themselves up before they approach a woman like its a hard thing to do.

Probably beforehand you've already considered what they looked like naked, what they'd be like as a girlfriend,

what your mother would think of her, etc. Whatever.



If you approach a woman from a place of being neutral about the experience, and being honest

with her about your interests/feelings, you'll be a thousand times better off than most other men.



Besides a man that is

capable of first approaching a woman, making their interest known, and then making the decision to walk away, is

completely different to most men a woman is likely to meet in her life.

[phersurf]

there are 2 ways

to approach things with women, first is seduction, it works, and gets you the piece you want, when i say piece i

mean the gorgeous woman that you desire. secondly thier is the approach that happyman is suggesting, and be yourself

whatever the circumstances.

fact is, happyman is right, although the first approach, you call it games, i

call it seduction through technique will get you the woman, the spell will wear off, ive done it to many girls and

the spell does wear off and it can backlash on your self esteem when you keep on getting dumped with women that you

have seduced, and it hurts, as many a man can attest. What happyman suggests is , this is who I am, this is what you

get, this is what i am about, if you dont like it, then please dont waste my time because it will not last, and will

just cause both suffering in the end. I agree with happyman, but for one thing, you have to adapt to each woman that

you meet, otherwise you will not understand each other and again it will not last, this does not mean that you have

to play games or lie or manipulate, just simple respect.

i have read david deida works and books, he is on

the same path as what happyman says, and differs from what some of the pick up gurus say you have to do inorder to

score and be successful with women.

If being yourself means being the needy, wussy guy, that

suplicates himself to attractive women that most men these days are, I'll take "playing games" all day

long!

The only thing is, I don't consider the teasing, cocky-funny, confident way I deal with women, playing

games. When I first started using these "techniques", they didn't feel like me and I really had to push myself to

try them. Now, they're so integrated into my being, they are me.

When a person first learns any new skill,

it doesn't feel like "themselves" until they integrate it. Even the most natural looking athelete had to learn

their skills and integrate them, and until they did, they didn't feel natural.

One MAJOR point that most

people don't consider is that humans, like every other animal on the planet, have an evolved mating dance. The

human mating dace is not as clearly defined as other animals, but one thing is sure, the man has to display his

status, intelligence, wit, fighting ability, athletic prowess, or creativity (all signs of good genes and alpha

behavior), and NOT be a needy wimp!.