Very disturbing:viewer discression advised

[tim929]

Okay...this is usualy way,way,way outside my usual posts.In point of fact I am not even sure if I

should post it...but then again...This video is about how animals that end up on our tables for consumption are

treated befor they reach the supermarket.Im sure we have all heard the stories,but seeing it was...well...an eye

opener.

I will sum up this video for those who would prefer to not watch it but may have stomach enough to hear

my pathetic attempt to describe what has to be seen to be believed.Stop reading now if you would rather just not

know.

This is a link to a video narated by one of the Bladwins,Im not sure which one,that was produced by PETA

in a campaign to stop the commercial sale of meat.Meat animals,as Im sure we have all heard,live in the most

deplorable conditions imaginable.

In the case of chickens,many production meat birds starve to death in thier

pens as a result of injuries that prevent them from reaching food.Others die from stress related ailments while kept

in extremely over crowded pens and coops while awaiting transport to slaughter.They are kept in pens far too

small,made to live in thier own excrement,brutaly beaten to death if they are found to be sick or injured.In the

video,five gallon buckets stuffed full of dead chickens can be seen in the pens.

When they are slaughtered,they

are first brutaly hung up by thier feet and sent through a machine that cuts thier throats,but often

inadaquately...so as a result,they are sent down the line to the hot water tank for feather removal.When chickens

are plucked(I have done this myself) they are first dipped in scalding hot water to loosen the feathers.In the case

of comercial production,many are still alive when they get dipped.

Cattle in this video are particularly

pathetic.Meat cattle are first castrated with a knife,have thier horns removed with bolt cutters and are

branded...all without bennefit of anesthiesia.they are penned in a feed lot,where conditions are so cramped,they

cant even move or lay down.By the time they go to slaughter,thier muscles have atrophied,they have developed

infected wounds or cancerous lesions,despite which they still pass USDA certification.Many are so weak and

debilitated,that they have to be dragged off the trucks with a winch when they reach the slaughter house,unable to

move or stand on thier own.

Dairy cows are much the same.They are kept in tightly regulated pens and milked

several times a day.They are niether able to move or lay down and in many cases suffer injuries from being milked

that result in them being culled from the heard and sent to slaughter.According to the video,most of the hamburger

in the US is gained from dairy cows.

Cows give milk for the same reason women do...to feed thier offspring.So as

a result,the dairy cows are impregnated and when they give birth,thier young are taken to simmilar,smaller pens to

be raised for veal.Unable to lay down or walk,by the time they go to auction many of these veal animals cant even

stand on thier own because thier muscles have atrophied.

Once again,these animals are hung up at the slaughter

house,have thier throats cut and are blead out befor being skinned and gutted.Unfortunatly,many are still alive and

awake by the time they reach the skinning room.This is true of both beef cows and veal.

The part of the video

about pigs was the toughest part for me.My brother and sister-in-law raised pigs,and I got to help hand raise some

of them after thier breeding sow died giving birth.Pigs are an amazingly inteligent creature and have been said to

be more inteligent than dogs.Having seen it,I believe it.They are also alot of fun.

The pigs are kept in pens in

which they cant turn around.They are fed and watered,and when the time comes,they give birth and are given just

enough extra space to nurse thier young.The piglets are prematurely weaned and sent to mass pens in which they are

so packed together that they are unable to move.Sick or wounded animals are...this turned my stomach...picked up by

thier hind legs and slammed head first onto the concrete floor to kill them.Many of the animals

above,chickens,turkeys,cows,pigs are driven to insanity from thier conditions.Haveing spent alot of time around farm

animals I can believe that because for as dumb as we think they are,they realy arent.They just cant share thier

thoughts on quantum mechanics with us.And the mamals especialy have very distinct personalities.I have seen these

animals show effection in the same way your dog or cat would show effection.They just smell alittle stronger.



Thats about where I had to stop watching.In the greatest effort I can muster to not pay anyone any disrespect,it

is very clear to me that meat farming in the United States has taken more than a few pointers on "how to" from the

Nazi concentration camps and then improved on the methods to make them even worse.If you have a stomach to watch

it...here is the link.

http://www.meat.org/?c=v0106

Bear in

mind,I am not a big fan of PETA...but once in a while I can find something to agree with even with someone I usualy

disagree with.

[DrSmellThis]

No pun

intended, but... food for thought!

Thanks for the post.

One of the great mysteries is how life implies

death; and how milking (again, no pun intended) anything
"good" out of the whole drama seems to imply creating

something "bad".

But certainly, there are more and less graceful, or harmonious, ways to participate in the

ironies and cycles of nature. Unlike, say, traditional Native American cultures, we are extremely out of touch with

this major aspect of existence.

A big picture approach can be used to optimize the harmony we have with the rest

of nature. Yes, everything we are and do is part of nature; but the question is whether we are acting in harmony, or

in a selfish, human-centric, self-defeating, "cancerous" manner.

All those practices taint the food we eat.

I

think I'll go eat a free range, organic buffalo burger now.

[belgareth]

That's pretty bad. I wonder if

its across the board treatment or if those are some of the worst offenders? Do you know? I'd read recently that

some companies have strict policies about humane treatment that wouldn't allow that type of thing. Maybe I'm

nisunderstanding what they consider humane?

Doc,

While I am not familar with all traditional native american

customs the few I do know something about are very strongly in touch with the cycles of nature and their place in

it. Could you please go into a bit of detail on that?

[DrSmellThis]

For example, I have in mind

the close, intimate, respectful, solemn relationship hunters had with their prey (note the closeness with the word

"pray", BTW); and the rituals that developed around that in different tribes. The role of the buffalo as sacred in

ancient American history is illustrative.

It wasn't, random, indiscriminate killing for the purpose of

mazimizing profits. There was an awareness of what you are doing, how it is profoundly important, and how it fits

in.

[belgareth]

Ah, my apologies. I read it

wrong. You've since re-written it so I'm not sure how I managed to misinterpret it.

[DrSmellThis]

No problem. Seems I came

across as saying the exact opposite of what I was trying to, due to a subtle double negative. I started the

sentence with "unlike", then said "native cultues", and followed with another negative ("out of touch"). It was an

optical illusion, and not the greatest writing on my part. It's better to phrase things using positives, kids!

[tim929]

I think these conditions were

representative of the worst offenders in the industry,but even cutting the misery and brutality by half wouldnt pay

these animals the respect they deserve.I think Doc and I are fairly close to being on the same page in terms of

being in touch with nature and our role in it.I have known for a long time that native American culture in many

tribes prescribes a very solemn and spiritual relationship between the hunter and the hunted.In many cases its not

uncommon for the hunter to mourn his prey and pay great respect to its spirit and give thanks for the opportunity to

eat and feed his tribe.

In a sort of excentric and funky way,Ted Nugent subscribes to this line of thinking.I

dont know if you have much knowledge of his life style,but he and his wife eat only meat that they have harvested

themselves.They hunt it,clean it,skin it,butcher it and eat it.They have a very simmilar philosophy toward

animals.They regard thier kills as gifts from God and go to fairly extensive lengths to insure that each kill is as

humane as possible.They also do a HUGE amout of conservation work...but thats not impoirtant right now...Funny

thing...for thier ages,Ted and his wife look realy great...and thier thirty one year old daughter looks like she

probably gets carded every time she orders a drink.The first time I saw her I thought she was sixteen.The whold

family enjoys a level of health and energy that most Americans have only read about,largely due to an extremely

healthy life style...including thier food.Although I find him excentric and alittle over the top,I have a great deal

of admiration for he and his wife.They have very strong convictions and they strive to live up to them in the most

decent way they know how.

His wife is so damn hot too...good food hasnt hurt her one bit...

[belgareth]

I wasn't arguing the point and

agree that the conditions were deplorable. In both instances I was looking for clarification. In Doc's case, the

way it was originally written it was easily misunderstood to say the native americans did not revere life and I know

that to be wrong in the instances I am familar with. He clarified and we are in agreement.

[catlord17]

I guess it's time to start

considering more closely what I eat. I guess seafood really would be a better source of protien.

[Mtnjim]

...I guess seafood

really would be a better source of protien.

And mercury!!

[tim929]

There is such a think as humane

meat products.You just have to look realy hard for them.Another option is to find out if there is someone localy

that you can go in on a cow with cooperatively.Superior meat and no guilt.There are alot of folks around here that

have various animals like cows and sheep and chickens that,if you befriend them and offer to help out and help

pay,are willing to raise animals on thier property for meat.You know exactly what went into the meat and exactly

what health the animal was in at the time of slaughter and it actualy gets to live its life right up to the end in

relative comfort and luxury.

[DrSmellThis]

Since you're eating them,

whatever you're doing to them you're doing to yourself. We shouldn't assume that a life and death of torture

doesn't somehow become reflected in the health of the meat. Mind-body connections aren't just for humans.