Help me ask her out

[**DONOTDELETE**]

a.k.a., proteus -

i haven\'t asked her out yet but i\'m gonna call her on Sunday night --- but of course I won\'t if you could explain to me why i shouldn\'t. it seems like everybody is agreeing with each other\'s idea so maybe my way of thinking is way too amateur compared to yours. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The bottom line is move on. Treat her as you always have. Don\'t call and find another chick. She\'ll call you or ask you out if she wants to go out. I mean she can\'t get upset because she gave you her number and you never called because, you did call.

Dude you got great ammo in the form of Creed tickets. Some other chick would be happy to o and I bet when it over she\'ll ask about the concert. Face it Red she just may not be interested. You got the number, call her sparingly if it all and move on.

By the way, if she\'s ever having problems with her boyfriend and comes to you, don\'t try to solve them. Simply say \'I\'m sorry to hear that.\" or something like that. Trust me on this one.

-The Bat

[Whitehall]

There are 3 BILLION females on the face of this green earth. So you got shot down by 0.000000033% of the female population - that leaves 99.99999997% to go. Aren\'t big numbers comforting?

If you give up after ONE rejection - you\'ll deserve precious little sympathy from me or anyone else.

Seriously, the name of the game is prospecting - finding a woman who wants what you\'ve got to give. Unless you look like Quesamodo or attend school in some mostly guy Hell Hole like Purdue, there will be other chances. Get out there and look! Pheromones will increase your chances of turning an initial contact into hot closure but if YOU don\'t put yourself out where women can find you (and maybe reject you), nothing will make it happen for you.

Guys with BALLS get to use them.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Thank you guys! But I\'m not afraid to move on. Actually what I wanted to do is if I have to move on or not yet. Yes of course I got balls and I use them (although sometimes not the proper way). In fact I got this number from a young lady who was shopping at Wal-Mart but I don\'t want to call her yet til after a week. Jambat, I haven\'t told her about the concert yet so she can\'t be asking me how the concert was. I know I should not chase her too much that\'s why if I can\'t get her to come with me to the concert, I will never bother her again but will still act the same (as her old friend). I don\'t care about taking somebody else to the concert, I can do that without any remorse but I just want to give it a chance by asking her and if she doesn\'t like it, well fine, then at least I know I can move on. Remember during the early part of this thread when I almost gave up without even asking for her number, but i gave it one more shot and she gave me her number. That\'s what I want to do this time, give it again one last chance and either way, I can never be the loser because I did what i\'m supposed to do [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] And I will never wonder to myself what it could have been.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

My advice is if anyone in this situation is to if she isnt really following up like someone else said put her at the bottom of your list stay nice just chase her less or leave her completley as a friend, when they play hard to get etc for a long time ( a little while is ok but if it continues or if you are being led around the bush so to speak go elsewhere and follow up on someone that will respond you only have a limited time here so go after what will work) otherwise you could be chasing and always just being put in the *friend* category.

Just my two cents worth just dont get used everyone.

[a.k.a.]

Redcapp,
I like your attitude. You don’t have to do what we tell you. Everyone’s just expressing their opinion and you’re the only expert with regards to this particular situation.

My opinions aren’t about “what’s the best way to get this girl?” or “how does one get to be a professional player?”. I’m thinking about “how does a guy establish a happy sex life in today’s world?”, and I’ll be the first to admit that I’m far from being an expert on this.

It just seems to me there should be an equivalence of desire. If two people desire each other a lot, that’s great. If they desire each other a little, that’s still pretty good. But if one person desires the other considerably less than the other, there’s going to be considerable dissatisfaction.

If this girl doesn’t want to skip class just to hang out with you, maybe she will skip class to be treated to a concert. But is that a good thing? The question only you can answer is, would you skip class to hang out with her? If not, then it’s probably a good thing she declined because you’d probably end up looking for other “conquests” after a while. If you would skip class for her, but she wouldn’t skip class for you, then there’s already an unequal relationship. Maybe she’s nice and won’t take advantage of it, but why set yourself up?

The romantic approach, that Hollywood’s always pitching, is to constantly up the ante until the girl breaks down, goes out with you, discovers you were meant for each other, and you both live happily ever after. If she doesn’t want a concert, buy flowers. If that doesn’t work serenade her. Etc.
If that’s your personality go for it. Like you say, there’s nothing to lose.

My personality is more easy going. I would never ask a girl to skip class for me in the first place — unless we’re already very close and I’ve got some kind of emergency. But If I asked her to hang out and she said “no”, I’d try something more casual rather than more exciting (like meeting for coffee after work).

[marv14yag]

Hey, redcap...when you wear pheromones..or you are attractive...women will find you attractive, however, that doesn\'t mean that they\'ll go out with you, if they don\'t know you, or etc...if she has a boyfriend, and she doesn\'t want to break up with him, she may still be sending you signals because she finds you attractive HOWEVER! that doesn\'t mean she\'ll go out with you

By the way....I don\'t know what pheromones you are getting, but..maybe you should try primal instinct, as it\'s stronger (a drop behind each ear...more won\'t do anything more..it\'s the concentration that matters) or, you can get the androsteNONE from the chemistry kit..and do not mix it, use it as it is, as it is it is 2 times stronger than primal instinct (which is the strongest you can get), that\'s 8 times a stronger pheromone than your body produces, not too shaby eiigh??
My advice, is to not jump to qestions, ie, go slower, like, get to know her better (plus, her hanging around you, and detecting the pheromones, will make you more attractive to her)

Bart

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Marv - That\'s a good piece of info [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] My brain suddenly went \"oh, that\'s right\" when you said that women can find a guy very attractive but doesn\'t necessarily mean she will go out with you. See, the harder part is always for us guys, of course if i sense that she likes me, and i like her too, then i\'ll make a move. But if she really has no desires to go out, then we\'re in trouble coz we\'re lost. We can\'t even tell if they are just playing hard to get and worse, they don\'t tell you exactly that they\'re not interested. By the way, I used PI on her once and she acted scared to be around me. When I started to use AE+Attraction on her, she acted very comfortable with me and started telling me some personal stuff. She even started to ask me personal questions too. Then I got hooked and lost my sense of reality so I started this thread. These folks in the forum really helped me a lot.

A.K.A. - you\'re right. it always has to be equal interest level. as for me, since i was in highschool, i always skipped school for a girl. i did that too with my girlfriend in college, we would always skip school and go somewhere private. as for this girl, i was really thinking if she goes to the concert with me, maybe she just wants to take advantage of it but will not go with me anywhere else. So this is what i\'m gonna do. She told me she doesn\'t have classes on Monday night. I\'ll try to ask her to meet after work. Maybe go get some fastfood, that way it doesn\'t appear so romantic, instead just regular and casual outing. Then maybe I can mention the concert to her while we\'re talking.

See, you people has always been helpful

[img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That\'s the spirit, RedCap. Funny thing is,
once you are actually feeling you don\'t give
a damn, the chick gets interested in you...

I always say... women, can\'t live with or
without them!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

That\'s right BadGrass! In the end, it\'s still men who rules! They may be leading us on during the first part but they can\'t continue without men around. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Uhh...I beg to differ? I, for one, certainly do not need a man in my life. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] One of the perks of being a lesbian. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, I\'ve been following this thread. Seems that she\'s just real busy.

You\'re in the right track, keep it cool, keep it easy.
But don\'t put her in the \'bad guy\' spot just because she hasn\'t been available, she IS busy, and her life doesn\'t revolve around you - a friend from work.

Sometimes when we\'re pursuing someone we read too much into things. Like, overanalyze everything that she says or does.

One thing I\'ve always believed, when we try to analyze too much we end up reading things that aren\'t there.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

LOL! Titaniumoxide, u rule! Yup, I\'m just gonna treat her like before all these happened, and will act as if none of these happened. And really sometimes end up reading things that aren\'t there but not anymore. Hey, could it be that she herself is wearing pheros for women? Cuz, all of a sudden, I got attracted to her big time! She maybe a member of this forum, who knows! [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey.

I just thought you deserve to know what happened since you were all willing to help me, i just don\'t want to leave this one hanging.

So I called Sunday night, around 5:30 pm., her cellphone rang 5 times then the voicemail message came on. I never left a message, I thought maybe if she\'s waiting for my call, then she\'ll have to keep her phone in her pocket and not let any call pass by. And besides, if she has voicemail, then she must have caller ID too. So either she didn\'t answer the phone intentionally or she doesn\'t have a signal that time. But I figured, what the heck! I\'ll just let this one go, I realized that this isn\'t going anywhere anyway. See, she has full-time job, she goes to class almost every night, and not to mention she has a boyfriend. So what will I be? A filler? LOL [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]
I\'ll just leave it like this and in case she does something to get the attention back to her, I\'ll take it from there. But i\'m not expecting it. Meanwhile, I\'m gonna practice being a playa with the aresenals I got from Bruce. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Just think about it for a moment... best things in life come to you in spite of your efforts, in the least thought moment.

As John Lennon puts it: \"Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans\".

Buddhists think that the harder you try, the farther away you will be from it. Of course this is applicable only to fulfillment, love, meditation and such things.

These things might sound elusive, but they are true, to some extent.

Personally my own way is to work every day on myself, but not to have too many expectations out of life. Try to keep a fresh state of mind.

I think, the bottom line is... just be yourself, and do the things that make you feel happy and fulfilled.


Regards

titaniumoxide, I have a question for you... are there \"roles\" in lesbians? I mean, in male-to-male homo relationships, there is an active member, and a passive one. They are both capable of being active, but most of the time the passive is just that, passive.

[proteus]

Well, the point is you tried Redcapp, and whether or not something \"develops\" in the future with her or not, hopefully you learnt something from this. I\'ll tell you I used to have pretty so-so luck (meaning for every success I had quite a few rejections) approaching ladies, and determined to change this and did two things - first thing was I read a lot on the web and found some particularly helpful stuff at this site:
<A HREF=\"http://www.pickupguide.com/layguide/\" TARGET=_blank>
pickup guide</A>- check it out. Lotsa good info there. and then I also began using pheros fairly recently. This combination has had pretty damn good results for me, although I\'m by no means a \"player/pickup artist\" and would never want to be [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] . Point is I figured I had to learn what I was doing wrong, make some adjustments and learn from the failures and I\'m still doing this but I can tell you it\'s been worth the time and effort. It\'s been interesting reading your efforts at pursuing this lady and do keep us posted if anything else happens [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

P.S. If ladies only knew the stuff we go through just to get with them hey?? [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

BadGrass,

There\'s a lot of misunderstanding about gay relationships, for a good reason. There are a lot of stereotypes on us, and that makes our relationships sound/seem a lot more exotic than it actually is.

A homosexual relationship is just that : a Relationship between two people. There isn\'t a rule in it, or anything like that. Now there might be couples with butch/femme or dominant/submissive energy, but that really depends on their own personality.
If I were a dominant person dating a somewhat passive/submissive person, my relationship would seem to be an active/passive one.

But I think most of the time people are just romanticizing the whole idea too much. A relationship is a relationship.

Anyhoo, EVERYONE Else :

It\'s actually kinda amusing to me, what you said about if only women know what you guys go through just to get together with them.

I honestly didn\'t think you guys talk this much, especially about such stuff.

And I thought WE overanalyze everything. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[proteus]

Titaniumoxide, with all the testosterone raging through a guy\'s body, most guys are constantly thinking about ladies so I think we are just as guilty on this overanalysis as you are [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]. This phero board, newsgroups such as alt.seduction.fast are just some places where this is behavior is more visible. Ultimately I guess the point is to figure out what a woman wants which is an impossible task I\'ve come to think. I\'ve always thought that the quote from the movie JFK should really be rephrased as follows \" women are a puzzle, wrapped up in a riddle, inside an enigma \" [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Anyways, makes life interesting so.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

One last question b4 this thread dies, remember I told u b4 that she kept reminding me about her birthday? Well, its this coming saturday. So I don\'t know if its ok to call her on Friday just to greet her. I think its so unethical if I don\'t greet her just because I didn\'t get a date with her right? And I also told her that I am not 4getting her birthday.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey, Redcapp if I were you, and was really interested, I would send flowers to her, but do not call her. Then wait and see how she reacts. I f she calls you, either she is very polite or she is really interested in you.

What do other people in this forum think?

titaniumoxide:

&gt;It\'s actually kinda amusing to me, what you said about if only women know what you guys
&gt;go through just to get together with them.

I have never said so. What I said was, that I truly believe I cannot understand the female mind [img]images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] so I used the saying... \"women, I can\'t live with or without them\".


My grandmother had a very funny phrase: \"...women that do not have good luck with men, do not know how lucky they actually are...\"

But my grandaddy would reply: \"you can never trust an animal that bleeds 5 days in a row, once a month and doesn\'t die\"
(please, ladies, no offense, it is only a joke [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] ).

What I could infere, though, is that you are surprised to find actually thinking men, who are sensitive and intelligent and do analize their actions? [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] (no offense guys, just another joke [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] ).

Yes, my question about female homosexuality is naive, but that is because I am straight and never had such inclinations. But still am curious to know. This is because I do respect all beliefs, creeds and races, so the more one knows about it, the better you know how to show respect.

[proteus]

Okay, no offense intended by what I\'m about to say [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] : Redcapp I think you oughta think about the advise some of the other forum members gave and just let it go for now. You tried, now let her make an effort to get in contact with you and quit thinking of reasons to call her. You don\'t owe her a call for her b-day just because you told her you would remember it. See the more you are nice and giving of yourself with nothing in return the more you will get nowhere - and sending flowers to her would be a bad idea (no offense meant again [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] )

[Nutt]

now I don’t know what the situation is socially in your scene, but hares my $0.02 ( well, £0.02 [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img])...


If you want to give her one last chance, then appear in the office and pretend to do something, if you can avoid calling first and surprise her so much the better, assuming she’s not likely to be busy.
Probably best to do it as close to the date as possible, but try not to miss it.

Pretend to nearly miss her, then notice her and wish her happy birthday for XXXday and Ask her if she’s going out anywhere, not asking her out but simply gauging the mood. If she’s going out with her BF somewhere romantic your out of luck, but if she’s going to a bar or something similar, and she\'s interested ( or even considers you a personal friend) there’s a good chance she\'ll ask you if you can come. (if she’s going with a group of friend then you could invite yourself but Cooley, \"sounds fun, I might turn up if you guys don’t mind? I\'m not sure if I’m gonna be free yet though.\" If possible rush off before you have time to elaborate. Say its your long lost cousins 19 and a half year Birthday drinking contest or some other disposable event you should go to but isn’t a big deal.

Whether you should actually go or not is debatable, and her reaction should help. If you do and the BF is there, then oh well, say Hi and do some hello happy Bday kino on her, then proceed to plan 2, busting out the pheros and launching a attack on her friends ( hey, HB\'s usually have at least a couple of free HB friends [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] ) If he’s not there then you have a green light on her. (Humm, BF not there on her birthday night? this chick deserves better, he probably doesn’t exist or she\'s gonna get drunk and forget about him ( on purpose! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] ).


anyway, a lot of that depends on her being the partying type, your ages etc: As always, its what I\'d do, and not by any means a perfect plan. As everyone is saying, there are plenty more fish in the sea ( chicks in the bar? ) but hey, I admit to having a \'pet chick\' who I have a hangup with thats difficult to act on for various reasons [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] just dont let her get in the way of the others if you get a chance with them. Shes also not so close to you in work that you cant risk loesing her forever (i.e. until she forgets about it, which she would, but that ain\'t gonna happen. pheros and the attitude your developing make you 150% efficent over most AFC\'s ! [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] )

as said before, flowers are a no no, one way or another. take a step back and look at her, yeah shes very to yuo, attractive, but a lot of that is because she\'s your type, features that appeal to you etc: shes not THAT stunning, and she\'s not gonna have as many guys as your subconscious would like to think lining up after her. men like diffrent types, and usualy women go for the type that would like them, its a genetic thing to encourage ( within parameters ) outbreeding (e.g. diffrent immune systems etc: )

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Nutz ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Looks like flowers are out of the question by a vast majority!

I guess you have to move on, then.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I\'ve already asked her before what her plans are for her birthday. She said she\'s going somewhere with her friends, maybe drink. She never mentions her boyfriend in any of our conversations. The only time she said it was when I asked her about him. She didn\'t even elaborated further about his boyfriend. She never invited me either but I don\'t care, I don\'t really wanna be there.

I don\'t like the idea of giving flowers too, because the last time I did it to a girl, her mom tried to call me and diss me, but she wasn\'t able to reach me though, so she had to tell me through other people.

Well, I was just thinking that maybe if I let her know that I remember her birthday, but won\'t call her at any other circumstances, maybe she will sense that I\'m still interested but not desperate. Then let her do the next move in case she wants a chapter 2 in the story. But if you think its not a good idea to call her anymore, then I won\'t [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[Whitehall]

Reddcapp,

You\'re obsessing! Go lift weights, dig a ditch, get into a bar fight, whatever, just make it MANLY.

Here\'s one way this might well play out...

You send flowers. She thinks \"Silly smuck!\", she calls you to politely say thank you, you beg and plead to see her, she dains to meet you, you beg and plead some more, she lets you have some to shut you up. You have a Pavlovian response to this intermittant reward scheme and redouble your efforts. She finds you \"easy\" and when she runs out of MEN she\'s really attracted to, lets you suck up to her (which you do, big time.) Eventually, you get married because no one else has asked her.

Once married, she treats you like the WORMBOY you\'ve promised her you\'d be; YOU wash the dishes and clean the bathroom, YOU run to the drugstore in the middle of the night to buy her tampons, YOU hold her purse in public while she spends your paycheck, YOU get to hold the vibrator, YOU let her have those weekly nights out with the \"girls.\"

Sound appealing? Well, you\'re setting yourself up for exactly this sort of relationship. If you can\'t show the strength of character to leave her alone and move on, you don\'t deserve any better.

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Whitehall ]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ok bro, I maybe think that you can get this girl. But you do need to get a little more experience w/ confidence. So do go lift weights (but do this for yourself only not for girls) and let yourself become a better sex symbol and a better flirt and communicator. Try watching the Other Half on TV. Its a morning show. Maybe that will help a little but the most important things are how to be more friendly/talkative and sexy/talkative, two things that you will have to work on so you don\'t miss any oportunities anymore. I think if she didn\'t mention her boyfriend when she talks to you in situations like when you asked her about hey birthday, is a big sign. Because if she didn\'t like you, she could have said \"yea Im going to so, so place w/ my boyfriend\". But she didn\'t. This I think says something. But bro you will have to change something and all I think it is that you have to change is the way you think you should act around this girl. After you do the weights and get intouch w/ the sex-symbol in you you will start to move differently, talk differently, think differently when around women (for instance, \"Wow she\'s beautiful and great, I think I can become her boyfriend.\"
I used to be like you bro, but do get in touch w/ your own sex symbol because it depends very little on looks. This is because women can date tall or short guys, black or white (or Latin) guys, or ugly or good-looking so it is really up to her emotions so remember nothing is holding her back so nothing should be holding you back. So go ahead and become the best person you can. Fix this part of your life. I\'m not telling you to do this all in one day either, take your time and enjoy your journey to a better you. Do at least one thing a day, that makes you happy too. One thing a day that makes you genuinely happy. One of these should be the exercising and weight lifting because you should do these for your self. Maybe subscribe to men\'s fitness I read that magazine and its pretty cool.
Oh and thats right don\'t send her flowers to her bday, unless you feel you are very good friends at least. And if you have had at least one date w/ her because if not the flowers will not ask her out for you neither will they maker here for in love w/ you and that is exactly what you are trying to do by sending her the flowers-- more importantly this is what your feeling. The flowers are inanimate objects. They can not do this for you.-------This should not be what your are feeling. You should be feeling confidence confidence in yourself and confidence in your self to create the same feeling that you have for her in her. This all comes from yourself and thats why you should take care of yourself first to fix your life.
sincerely
DaleSalsa

[ January 16, 2002: Message edited by: Dalesalsa ]

[a.k.a.]

Redcapp,
Whitehall painted a good picture of the worst case scenario. Here’s my impression of the best case scenario. (Maybe you can figure out where you stand in between the two.)

You’re the cute, clever guy that’s handy and reliable and always fixes things. Not to mention you kind of turn her on and make her feel good talking to you. Seems like you’re interested in her, and — even if she has a boyfriend — it never hurts to have someone interested in you. (A girl never knows when she might need something fixed.)

You asked her out a couple of times. Maybe she wouldn’t mind at some other time when she didn’t have class, or her boyfriend wouldn’t get mad, or something; but she had to politely turn you down for now. Then she doesn’t hear from you for a while. Her birthday rolls around and still no word from you. Maybe she wonders if you’re angry, (Of course your not angry. Why would you be angry?) or if you forgot (Must have slipped your mind. You don’t know how it could have happened. Maybe ‘cause you were still pumped from the concert. Who’d you go with? Oh “just a friend”.)

Eventually something will need to get fixed. You’ll see her again, in your usual cute, clever, pheromone laced way. You’ll be friendly and courteous... Maybe you’ll let an insignificant compliment slip through your lips “There you go. All fixed. Hmmm... cute dress. OK, see you later.”

She’ll think. “Hey why isn’t he hanging around trying to chat me up? He didn\'t seem angry, overworked, or in a bad mood. Maybe I justt need to show a little more interest next time.”

Meanwhile — if you’re not already involved with someone else — you can post your experience on the forum and we’ll give you about a dozen different ideas on how to deal with it.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Its funny some of y\'all are starting to think that I\'m the obsessed, overweight slob, who doesn\'t have a life all because of my questions I post in this thread! [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] Well actually, I started to fix my life already since last year, I did that by using pheros and I did intense workout and strict diet and I am in the best shape of my life right now. That is probably why she showed interest to me. See we knew each other for 2 yrs, seeing at least once a month, but she never acted like this with me. She never saw me for about 3 straight months, and when she saw me, I was the new \"ME\", better shape and equipped with pheros. She showed noticeable interest to me and I just didn\'t know how to react to it the right way. That\'s why I turned to you guys, but it doesn\'t mean I\'m obsessed. And it wasn\'t my idea to send her flowers either, I know that\'s a NO-NO based on my past experiences.

I like a.k.a.\'s idea and I guess everybody else agrees with it. Yup I think all I have to do is stop pursuing for now, forget her birthday, forget about asking her out, continue to stay friendly and calm, maybe give one insignificant complement then stay away, and let her do the thinking. Very nice! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Hey dudes! About the Creed concert, I posted another thread about it. Check it out!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR> You send flowers. She thinks \"Silly smuck!\", she calls you to politely say thank you, you beg and plead to see her, she dains to meet you, you beg and plead some more, she lets you have some to shut you up. You have a Pavlovian response to this intermittant reward scheme and redouble your efforts. She finds you \"easy\" and when she runs out of MEN she\'s really attracted to, lets you suck up to her (which you do, big time.) Eventually, you get married because no one else has asked her.

Once married, she treats you like the WORMBOY you\'ve promised her you\'d be; YOU wash the dishes and clean the bathroom, YOU run to the drugstore in the middle of the night to buy her tampons, YOU hold her purse in public while she spends your paycheck, YOU get to hold the vibrator, YOU let her have those weekly nights out with the \"girls.\"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whitehall, with all due respect, this is macho BS!!!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

damn glad your doing alright man. I was starting to worry, but you got it figured out bro. Don\'t worry, there\'s no need to stress it. (man is this a reggea song or what, somebody drop a beat on some steel drum haha [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img] )
good luck

[Whitehall]

Dear Mr. Bad_Grass,

I\'m afraid that your \"political correctness\" is getting in the way of your perception of reality. Or perhaps, you are just young and inexperienced and have only television to go on. The scenario I painted is real and it\'s is common. Neither person in the couple I described would be happy with the relationship.

This is not to say that the other extreme is any more desirable - \"macho\" over-dominance is just as destructive of happiness. However, I don\'t see that in Reddcap\'s future with this particular female given the behavior he has reported so far.

What works best are the time-tested roles of male leadership and female support with a female-centric homelife. Biology, anthropology, almost all religous traditions - all recognize male dominance and female proceptivity. Mutual attraction, respect, and interaction as peers, albeit with differing roles, is the sound basis for a relationship.

Of course, you, Mr. Bad-Grass, are free to be just as pussy-whipped as you chose to be.