Turning friends into lovers...

[DUKE3100]

Ok I am going

to try to explain something to everyone that I read in a book about psychology and evolution that makes a lot of

sense. This is only a theory but it makes complete sense. Humans have three brains that have evolved over time.

This is the opening paragraph to my science post that I wrote above Bel. I am not sure how I can be

any clearer than that to explain it is only a theory. I wont even address the rest of your tone because it speaks

for itself. I will say that you define arrogance. You should lighten up. Good luck my friend

[DUKE3100]

Nevertheless,

after all that good information you spoiled it by stating for men the main biological motivation is visual. There's

a lot more to it than visual.

Yes there is more to it than visual. I have learned not to go by looks. I

test a woman for other qualities that are more important to me rationally in my thinking part of the

brain.
However visual is the main stimuli. Why do you think that women spend so much time making themselves look

Gorgeous? When is the last time you saw some young guy with a lady in her 40's or 50's?? I never have and if you

have I am sure its rare. Now.....how many times do you see an older man with a younger women.....a lot more common.

I think I may be on to something here Gegogi....but I appreciate your comments regardless.

[belgareth]

If you acknowledge it's only a

theory you should listen to other's opinions instead of completely dismissing them and attempting to belittle them.

Many of us have experiences that run counter to your theories. That does not make us stupid or unobservant, as you

keep implying. It simply means we have experiences you aren't accounting for. Denying them is poor science, no

matter how you feel about it. I am not the one who is claiming my explanation is the only right one, you are. I

readily admit that there are multiple possibilities. You should learn to open your mind to possibilities other than

your own interpretation.

[DUKE3100]

This is a

key difference. I used to believe in playing the odds.

Not any more.

That has to do with what I'm looking

for. What you can seek, if you choose, is one person who is the best, by your best, real, honest definition.

A person you will love so much you won't want to leave them behind.

The method for doing this is very different

from the method for seeking high numbers of attractees to choose "the best" from. Get the difference? It is a

logical error to think you can substitute the latter method for the former.

This is what "pick up artists" do

not understand. Take it from someone who may have already slept with more women than the historical Casanova (of

course it's easier nowadays), and yet has been frustrated most of his life.

Recently, maybe a month ago, I

wrote about this in more detail.

I think you are right. I feel a little emptier now that I am playing

the field. However I keep the faith that I will meet the right person. I have experienced the type of relationship

you talk about for a 5 year duration. Now its over and I simply have not healed enough yet to have it in me to go

looking for it again. Especially after slowly realizing that the girl I thought was the one...was not. So the field

is where i am at...until I find that one you speak of.

[DUKE3100]

If you

acknowledge it's only a theory you should listen to other's opinions instead of completely dismissing them and

attempting to belittle them. Many of us have experiences that run counter to your theories. That does not make us

stupid or unobservant, as you keep implying. It simply means we have experiences you aren't accounting for. Denying

them is poor science, no matter how you feel about it. I am not the one who is claiming my explanation is the only

right one, you are. I readily admit that there are multiple possibilities. You should learn to open your mind to

possibilities other than your own interpretation.

Allow me to apoligize Bel. I am sorry to have upsett

you this way and it was not my intent. I was going for some humor in the post about Yoga. It was not meant to

belittle you. I feel like you are bitter though and that is not a joke. I sense a lot of negative energy and a vibe

that says you expect the worse from people. I do not think anyone is stupid or unobservant. I have tremendous

respect for other peoples opinions. I would like to know what it is that I do that makes you feel I think you are

stupid. I would like to know what it is that I do that makes you think I do not respect others opinions. Where have

I denied anyone? My post started to chime in on my opinion in an open thread asking for an opinion. I then found

myself having to post several posts as many people began using my quotes, interacting with me, and debating theory.

This is done all the time on this forum. Suddenly I am the bad guy.....I just dont get it. Does that mean I am going

to dissmiss the theories that are producing better results than I have ever seen in my life with the opposite sex?

No....because I am trying to find the right girl. Once I find the right girl I can let down my walls and defenses. I

can soften up a little and show a little sensitivity and be more open. I will never do it again until I can trust

that she is for real though. The only thing in this thread that could be considered by me to be overbearing of my

opinion was how I said not to ask the girl if she wanted to be with him. That is because I think 100 percent that it

is totally the wrong move. I will not sit silently and let bad advice be given because its not in my nature. I think

you really need to take some time to just loosen up Bel. You need to give people the benefit of the doubt and loosen

up. Dont be so negative ok?

[Gegogi]

When is the last time you

saw some young guy with a lady in her 40's or 50's??

Actually I see it everyday. A friend, a female music

professor, only dates guys less than half her age. She even married one of her students but the marriage only lasted

about a year. My former chairman, a female art professor, has been raiding the caddle for as long as I've known

her. The relatonships tend to be sexual and secretive but steady. Both these woman are middle aged but well kept and

attractive. However, 20-something guys are lining up to be with them. And I know lots of other female professors

that get hit on constantly by their students but don't respond (they're trying to stay married). Sensational

examples in the media abound and it's getting increasingly common.

Sure it's more common to see an older man

with a younger woman. However, I don't think many of these women are attracted to older men because of money or the

potential ability to "provide." Speaking from experience, many younger women simply find older men attractive and

just want a fling or break from their husband or BF. For the same reasons, many younger guys go for older women.

[DUKE3100]

Actually I see it

everyday. A friend, a female music professor, only dates guys less than half her age. She even married one of her

students but the marriage only lasted about a year. My former chairman, a female art professor, has been raiding the

caddle for as long as I've known her. The relatonships tend to be sexual and secretive but steady. Both these woman

are middle aged but well kept and attractive. However, 20-something guys are lining up to be with them. And I know

lots of other female professors that get hit on constantly by their students but don't respond (they're trying to

stay married). Sensational examples in the media abound and it's getting increasingly common.

Sure it's more

common to see an older man with a younger woman. However, I don't think many of these women are attracted to older

men because of money or the potential ability to "provide." Speaking from experience, many younger women find older

men physically attractive and just want a fling or break from their husband or BF. For the same reasons, many

younger guys go for older women.

Gegogi...you always twist things....let me rephrase.....how often do

you see a young guy (20's) that is good looking with a older woman (40's 50's) who also is UNATTRACTIVE (which is

what is being debated here attraction)?? Its much more common to see a 10 girl with a 3 guy. Now I am tired of the

debates and I am having to post way too much and having my words twisted and misunderstood. Its obvious that there

are a handful of you on here that have been around longer than I have and have no respect for my opinions or

theories. There is a couple things I dont tolerate and one of them is having my time wasted. So I have posted my

last post. Good luck to you all. Its been real....its been fun....it hasn't been "REAL FUN" but then again its just

a pheromone board anyway. Peace and love to you all. Good luck with everything.

[Lamborghini]

It sounds

like you have a good friend. You are getting the same interaction that you would see her have with her girlfriends,

the only difference is you are a guy and you would think that would to somewhere. The scents are just getting her

closer to you but no further and also she trusts you so is not going to hold back to much being friendly. I have a

similar situation where one of my flatmates is the same and everyone else can see it but she is not going further

than friends, unless I happen to get the right situation but that is for me to know. The thing that really gets me

is that her and another female flatmate dont go out aren't in relationships but quite content. And to prove this

point we have a young couple living with us as well and the girl in that couple is always flirting with me and I am

sure if see didn't have moral values we could be together.

Eh everyone,

Well a

female friend and I have been getting pretty close over the last little while. From the outside you might even say

we're dating, just without the kissing and the sex. A few of our mutual friends have told me that we'd be perfect

for one another, and naturally I'd like to bridge the gap so to speak from friends to something more. The problem

is we're housemates, and if she wasn't interested, things could become awkward for obvious reasons.

I usually

wear a few dabs of NPA, SoE and A1, whenever I know she's ovulating, which tends to get her a little hot and

bothered. She becomes quite flirty, but whenever I go on the offence or try to get closer, she likes to playfully

push me away/ punch me, giggles a lot, and likes to continuously tease me. But that's all it ever seems to be, one

big tease. She knows that I have other prospects out there, and I've stayed well away from the "nice guy" persona

to avoid LJBF land.

The annoying thing is whenever I go out at night or don't tell her what I'm up to, she

desperately needs to know where I went or who I was with. And when I don't tell her, she needs to know even more.

But when I give her my full attention and spend time with her, she tends to be a little prissy, pays less attention

towards me. I think she enjoys knowing she could have me whenever I'm around, but becomes much more interested in

me when she knows she can't have me or I'm not spending time with her.

So I was wondering if the forum could

share any advice or stories of how they turned a friend into something more. I'd be open to any advice the women in

the forum have too. Thanks.

[tounge]

My oh my. All these words, when in

reality, all this guy wants to do is hose his hot,little,prick teasin, girlfriend. Got Phero, if your still out

there, once the semester is over, move on. And don't ever roomate again with someone that is going to turn them

blue for you and cause your hands to become calloused.

[belgareth]

Duke,

I accept and offer my

own. However, I'd like to address somethings.

In both public and private you have repeatedly been rude and

insulting to me and others. You may not see it that way but others certanly do. Perhaps you should re-read your work

before posting if that is not your intent because that is how you come across to a lot of people.

Generally

speaking, there is a lot of good stuff in your posts but a lot that comes across as hateful and manipulative towards

women. I don't ever agree with anything that is intended to manipulate others and I have just as much right to post

my opinions as you.

You try to make your point and validiate your authority on the subject by telling us how

many relationships you've been in and such. Yet when I respond about how long I've been doing the same thing you

tell us it doesn't matter and that I am niave. Slow down and think it through, you can't have it both ways. When

you imply I don't know anything about science you are making an absurd statement with no knowledge whatsoever of

what you are saying. I don't know your education but I do respect your mind. That doesn't mean I have to agree

with anything you say. Nor does anybody else. When you start saying things that come across as belittleing them

because they disagreed with you, I will always step in. It part of being a moderator.

As for my anger, hostility

etc., that's downright funny. I'm doing a job here and there is nobody on the forum who can do anything to make me

angry. You've misread me based on your preconceptions. I will be blunt and straight-forward but angry? Not with

something so trivial as this forum or you. While all this has gone on, I've also been helping decorate the house

for Christmas and having fun. I'm not angry or even irritable. Don't judge me by mere written words, you'll be

wrong every time.

Without trying to belittle you, you come across as having some real issues with women. I've

been screwed over a few times too, as have most men and women. Don't let it ruin the possible good things in life

by always assuming the worst. You'll do a lot better in life and romance both. We are all human and all have our

flaws and foibles. Don't hold that against people. You have some of your own.

[tounge]

Well said by Belgarth.

[Gegogi]

Duke, I believe you when you

write you've not seen it in your neck of the woods. The world is a vast place and we ain't all the same. I was not

twisting your words. I merely stated what I observed. I really see spring-fall relationships between male students

and female faculty everyday. It's always right in front of my eyes. In fact, next door! Sure female faculty are

more discreet than their male counterparts (me!) but, nevertheless, they get busy whenever they can. In Japan it is

considered trendy for a guy to date or marry an older woman. Also, realize, most of the people around me are Asian

so there are cultural and racial differences from other parts of the world.

[belgareth]

there are

cultural and racial differences from other parts of the world.

That's an important point we should all

try to be aware of. Many people don't seem to realize what a huge cultural difference there may be between

themselves and somebody right across the street from them. Age, gender, ethniticity, religion all create huge gaps

in our understanding of one another. It is almost always a mistake to assume that the next person sees things the

same way you do and it's almost certain that a number of your innocent remarks will be misunderstood, sometimes

offensively. When it comes to sexual relations it is even more likely that you will be misunderstood and that your

innocent words will cause offense.

My suggestion is two-fold.

1. Stop and think before telling somebody

else how they think or believe. They may have other ideas.
2. Stop and think before you take offense at another's

remarks. They may have meant something entirely different from what you percieved.

[surfs_up]

dunno about anybody else... as I grew older I observed more and more how

powerful "projection" is in most folk's mental lives.... in the simplest form, projection means "seeing your

stuff" in other people, or finding that the qualities (or lack thereof) that push your buttons, or maybe just

strongly focus your attention on somebody else is where you are most unconscious about yourself.

Personally,

it seems that the more blind-spotty anyone is, the more they cruise around projecting their unresolved issues on

others...

I was up north near the arctic circle for a period of time when it was mandatory that I co-exist

with my team, there was no convenient place you could run off to and commiserate or blow off steam, you had to

function under adverse circumstances and stay intact. There was this hot under the collar racist hick, self

absorbed, reckless, frighteningly unconscious of how others saw him, and also damned resourceful, entertaining,

could cook servicable food out of the most lifeless freeze dried vac-pak rations, and strong as a mule. To this day

I don't understand how as many contradictory aspects of humanity found their way into his DNA, but we had to

tolerate and function with this maniac.
Kinda like 3 sticks of dynamite and a one inch fuse.

We'd have a

couple of days in Achorage to replace things we needed, get provisions, effect a few repairs and whatever and this

dude would be attached to us, we didn't dare blow him off 'cause he'd freak out than we'd have to exist with him

in one of his bizarre paranoid altered states for another month.

He was sure that even the most innocent

gesture from a stranger was an insult, people all around were disrespecting him, and like if a black guy squeezed by

him in a store aisle (about half as wide as a normal aisle in the lower 48) that guy was purposefully "giving him

shit", if you change the radio when Elvis was singing, which meant he was singing along, you were giving him shit,

if you told him he better do something like X because it would keep him from falling to his death, he's go

improvise it like Y just to prove nobody could give him shit. Turned out in his previous job he was the manager of

an east texas fried chicken joint and had a side career as a professional arsonist to collect insurance money.



Perfect, exactly the guy you want to depend on in a wilderness emergency.

Thing was, he constantly,

eternally was seeing himself and all his craziness in everybody else, and as far as he was concerned he was as

serene and normal as buddha himself.

The problem with the world was Black Militants and Bitches Who Didn't

Know Their Place and Assholes Who Acted Like Assholes In Public and People Who Needed To Be Taught A Lesson... to

his credit he didn't seem like a homophobe, though... he was spewing this energy like a chunk of plutonium that

belched out of Chernobyl and was about as toxic... you could not escape his presence fast enough, if you were stuck

with him you just humored his ass nonstop and prayed for relief... thank God I never got roped into going drinking

with him...

He just assumed there were a few people he liked, meaning people who were using all their social

survival skills to tolerate him and that most people had a fucked up attitude, and he knew this by seeeing how they

acted towards him. He was "into" skanky women 'cause they had no expectations, slam bam thanl ya mam and out the

door to his next batch of fried chicken and whatever....

Another sobering life experience...

[got phero?]

Thanks Surfs_up, I'm not entirely sure what to make of your last post but I think I get the

general idea.

Does anyone know what the "experts" David DeAngelo and Ross Jeffries have to say about the matter

of turning friends into lovers. Anyone care to elaborate?

[catlord17]

It really boils down to one

simple point. If you want to turn a woman into your lover, you have to make her want to be your lover. I almost

never ask for sex, and haven't for as long as I've been sexually active. I am usually the one answering the

request, instead. If I want a woman to want me, it's only a matter of knowing what she responds to. This is where

communication comes in, whether it be asking her directly, or gently probing and observing over a period of time.

Find out what makes her tick and she's yours. If I am looking for a woman to seduce, I usually look for the ones

who respond to touch, because I know how to seduce through touch very well. Make them initiate by being (or doing)

what gets them going. That's how you turn any woman into a lover. But no matter how hot she is, I would avoid

making a roommate my lover.

[itwow]

It's hard to turn a friend into

lover, even more so for a housemate. To seduce effectively, there has to be a gap of absence & mystery. But this is

not going to happen if you live together.

There is no allure, no mental space or time for fantasy or missed

moments, if you're in her face half of the time. Plus, she already knows too much of you by now. Familiarity breeds

apathy (it could be worse though...)

Using -mones on a non-committed housemate is like fishing on the same

spot everyday. You'd have to be extremely lucky...

[Gegogi]

A student of mine married his

housemate while an undergraduate. He answered an ad for a roommate near campus and hooked up with her almost

immediately. Six months later he married her. I thought it odd but I guess anything is possible.

I recall

campus roommate situations as typically extremely transitory. I often moved every 3 to 6 months. You really don't

live together long enough to know one another well or feel like family, so the attraction tends to linger if there.

I got stoned and/or drunk with my housemates nearly everyday, so getting lucky with a female housemate once in a

while wasn't that unusual. A little Jack Daniels can work miracles.