Memoirs of a newbie

[Gegogi]

I haven't noticed a trend with

women preferring guys with big ego. Maybe buku confidence, fat wallet and/or jumbo wang. It seems to me getting your

head stuck in the doorway would be a turn-off to most women.

[Watcher]

some women prefer it but a lot

comes down to their own personal preferences

[Rbt]

Quick comments in general: there it

too much to life to sum all of "it" up. My comment was generic in nature as well, applicable to all aspects of life.



Right now, in terms of "women" etc., all someone would have to do is read the past posts on this forum from us

ancient ones.

One thing I've learned (out of many many things) is that "it's" not always black and white,

there are many shades of grey. Many paths lead to the same destination. Just as two snowflakes are unlikely to be

exactly alike, so it goes with everything in nature.

I've noted that at least one of the "successful dating

gurus" Duke speaks of really only targets ONE of his 8 "successful" personality types (that he talks about in one of

his "mini-ebooks), and no one, not even him, claims 100% success even there. Yes, I see wisdom in some of his

teachings, and like us old farts, he too is speaking from a degree of experience, and I notice from his reputed

sales, enough others (including me) consider themselves "clueless" enough to buy or at least consider his (and the

other's he interviews) knowledge/experiences.

Enough for now...

PS Asking what "it" is sorta reminds me of

when Deep Thought was asked for the answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything... (Hitchhiker's Guide to the

Galaxy)

[Gegogi]

Why Rbt, you wise old goat, I

tend to see life in many shades of gray too. Sure there are some absolutes but as I trekked the road of life my

rigid ideals slowly but surely merged to a continuum. I'm happier, more successful and open to new things because

of this flexibilty.

[belgareth]

There are few absolutes in life

other than those we impose on ourselves. Duke has it right about being true to oneself and that is one of the

absolutes. Otherwise, the world has more than six billion people and no two are alike. It's silly to imagine the

same methods and thought patterns pertain to all of them. You have to exercise judgement and work with the

individual if you are going to be successful at anything for any length of time. Of course, the fact that they are

all different is what makes them so interesting and entertaining. The challenge never ends. The varying shades of

grey are almost infinate.

I think that realization, that there are shades of grey in all facets of dealing with

life, is the biggest and hardest lesson to learn.

[DUKE3100]

Now that we

are on shades of grey and really deep I will add my 2 cents. I agree that "it" has to do with grey and that was kind

of what my point was in addressing what "it" really is. We all find our "it" in different ways based not only on our

experiences but also how we view those experiences. An event alone does not shape the event, it is only the event

combined with your reaction that determines a given outcome. My experience was a 5 year relationship which still

sometimes haunts me even 5 months later. There is a lesson to be learned in everything in life. The lesson that I

was to learn here was to never sell yourself out for someone else. To always stay true to yourself and know when to

cut your losses. The final year of this relationship was torture because I was so stubborn that I ignored the fact

that we were wrong for each other and thought I could compromise everything I stood for and make things work. The

problem was she was never willing to compromise anything. Why should she....I would always be the one to do it! lol.

When I asked for her to meet me half way it was the beginning of the end. I had built a relationship on what I could

bring to her and what I could be to her....I forgot to look or even care what she could bring to me. We were from

drastically different backgrounds and there were just too many obstacles to overcome. I saw plenty of grey for too

long in this one....and In the end I paid the price. "it" is grey and different for everyone based on their

individual experiences. That is why I have never NOT enjoyed a good debate. I respect the hell out of all of you

that have posted to this thread. I just dont always agree. Gegogi is hit or miss with me for instance. Sometimes he

really hits home and nails it....other times he is way off....my experience in life has been drastically

different....and I suspect the cultures that surround us are also different....however we have both found success

with women. This is proof that there is grey in the world and that if you stay true to yourself and stay strong and

have a big heart....success comes in many shapes and sizes.... I think the conclusion to other posts is exactly as I

suspected when I brought it to light. There is no "it".....life just isnt that simple. There are constants though.

Confidence and staying true to yourself and being a man....those are constants. Some on here will argue with the

"being a man" constant. To them I simply say that there are many different ways to be a man and if you do enough of

them so that you are doing more man things than weak feminine or girl things....than you will usually be

successful.

[DUKE3100]

I haven't

noticed a trend with women preferring guys with big ego. Maybe buku confidence, fat wallet and/or jumbo wang. It

seems to me getting your head stuck in the doorway would be a turn-off to most women.

What does head

stuck in the doorway mean?? Are you talking about inserting into the vagina?

I feel big ego is interchangeable

with self respect and confidence....They mean the same to me.

[DUKE3100]

I've noted that

at least one of the "successful dating gurus" Duke speaks of really only targets ONE of his 8 "successful"

personality types (that he talks about in one of his "mini-ebooks), and no one, not even him, claims 100% success

even there. Yes, I see wisdom in some of his teachings, and like us old farts, he too is speaking from a degree of

experience, and I notice from his reputed sales, enough others (including me) consider themselves "clueless" enough

to buy or at least consider his (and the other's he interviews) knowledge/experiences.

DD has some

very interesting teachings from what I have seen. I only have his origional ebook and have read his internet free

stuff. I dont think he is right about a lot of stuff but I think there are some basic things he hits head on but

just doesnt know how to explain in a way that makes much real world sense. I agree with everything you say on this.

Where I do agree with DD is on his biological concepts and how he feels they manifest. There are some basic things

that a lot know but some dont...that he is dead on with. We all know to get a girl you dont act like one. That only

works for the rare person that has a bunch of complex things going his way (Gegogi). It certainly would not and has

not worked for me and I wouldn't do it anyways. In fact if a girl really wins me over and I start acting a little

sappy or girly it kills the attraction between us. Everyone should know that what attracts a women on a biological

sexual level is a strong man. A bad boy or adventuring risk taker or a deep intelligent philosophical person. Not

the Therapist or the whiner or the crybaby. Then again some of the stuff he tells you to say is just retarded. He

also takes things too far a lot with some of his concepts. His basic teaching and theory makes complete sense when i

look back on mistakes and successes and try to look at the behavior that may have cause my successes and failures.

Some of his ways of practicing his theory or carrying it out is close to insanity however. I fear for the teenagers

who get ahold of his stuff and practice it word for word instead of just being themselves and trying to become more

of a man from within.

[Gegogi]

I feel big ego is

interchangeable with self respect and confidence....They mean the same to me.

Having big ego is a

negative thing and is normally used as a criticism or derogatory comment. Someone with a big ego is a narcissist

suffering from an over inflated image of their abilities and self-worth. They make poor leaders and team players. In

other words, a self-centered ass. Having self-respect and supreme confidence in your real abilities comes with the

terriority of being a real man.

[DUKE3100]

Having big ego is

a negative thing and is normally used as a criticism or derogatory comment. Someone with a big ego is a narcissist

suffering from an over inflated image of their abilities and self-worth. They make poor leaders and team players. In

other words, a self-centered ass. Having self-respect and supreme confidence in your real abilities comes with the

terriority of being a real man.

So in your definition T.O would be a great example of someone with a big

ego right?

[valentines_garden]

Who's T.O.?

[surfs_up]

If you're Donald Trump you can have a free pass on the oversized ego and

still have people happy to call you MISTER Trump and even he's a lot mellower and politically savvy behind the

scenes.... the man is, however, seriously determined to achieve his goals. Time Magazine recently had an article on

what it took to succeed. The one quality that stood out above all others was *tenacity*, the power to motivate

yourself and stick to a project. If you have a huge ego and no tenacity, you're a massive jerk waiting to be blown

off. Develop abilities, learn to cook, (something, anything... have about 6 things you can do as well as any

restaurant), ballroom dancing is excellent, you have to learn to sense fine changes in your partner and flow as a

unit (is there any wonder that once upon a time this art was considered essential to social development ? ) ,live

overseas and experience people who aren't exisiting in your political groove, join a Second City or Upright

Citizens Brigade improv group and flex your comedic skills.... anything... multiple anythings, get out of your rut

as many ways as you possibly can before it is dug so deep there's no way to see over the top.

[belgareth]

The local high schools have doing this project where adult role models are

asked to give a talk to freshman high school classes on what they need to succede in the world. We stress education

both in depth and variety but more importantly, we stress the other factors. The social skills that combine with

work ethic to make a person a real valuable employee rather than one of the crowd. Part of the point is that you can

have a tremendous education and work your butt off but unless you can work with others, have the right attitude

about your work and be flexible in your outlook you will not be all that great an employee. Others with less

education but better social skills will likely move ahead of you. Being able to justify yourself is not nearly so

important as being open to learning and working with people cooperatively.

[surfs_up]

there are soooo many times when I've personally seen someone who had most of the ingredients

for success in business, with women or men, socially, any interpersonal area, blown clean out of the water by some

tendency or quirk that they can't see or refuse to see. There was a sexy girl who had the worst, most obnoxious,

piercing laugh that she would squawk out every 30 seconds, it was like she was unconsciously trying to piss everbody

off, which she did an excellent job of, or a guy I remember from a corporate setting who was constantly licking his

lips in the weirdest way, like he was expressing a forbidden fantasy nonstop, everybody just ran from this guy... or

in character acting classes where someone changes place with me and I with him, I take on his persona and he takes

on mine, it was really shocking to see myself the first time this way, good and bad, warts and all... I instantly

got why others would respond to me the way they did, straighened my ass up real quick.... dayummmm, I was coming off

like THAT ! Ahem..... cough.... OUCH!!!!!!!!!

maybe we should all read :
VITAL LIES SIMPLE TRUTHS: The

Psychology of Self Deception by Daniel Goleman

[DUKE3100]

Who's

T.O.?

Terell Owens of the Eagles Nfl football team. He is one of the best at his position in the game

right now but he was suspended for the rest of the year for contact detrimental to the team. Basically his passion

for the game is based solely on his own personal gain. He looks out for himself first and foremost. This is not a

bad thing if you are ethical and have some respect and compassion unfortunately he feels the need to illustrate this

by putting his teamates and organization down publically.

[surfs_up]

arrogant assholes have their place, like at the head of the line into the

slaughterhouse... looks like the ideal 21st century Alpha Man is better balanced than his 20th century primate

counterpart, master team player instead of rough tough mister stud... you gotta have mucho self knowledge with a

focus on understanding your real abilities and limits, since a lot of young guys don't, the man with high self

knowledge has a powerful advantage in love, sex, and business...

[DUKE3100]

arrogant

assholes have their place, like at the head of the line into the slaughterhouse... looks like the ideal 21st century

Alpha Man is better balanced than his 20th century primate counterpart, master team player instead of rough tough

mister stud...

I have met and been friends or acquantances with plenty of Alpha guys who were very much

typical to the extreme. I have roomed with many alpha guys. An alpha is an alpha and just like anybody else they

have their strengths and their weaknesses. Their strenth tends to be in social likability and manhood. Some are more

caring and compassionate and confident than others but all of them are alpha because they back up their words in

some way or another. Some alpha guys are arrogant and others are not arrogant. Regardless of that another constant

is they sure as hell do not care what someone else thinks about them. I have always believed that the real man, the

pure alpha male, will brush off the jealousy or the tendancy others may have to seek approval from him in some form

or another....the true alpha needs not even address it. However I have met many and roomed with many that will

completely destroy and humiliate someone who comes after them out of their own insecurities or judgement. I have met

some that even go after a clearly innocent person to make their point and establish their dominance to the group. A

leader who tends to draw attention that has something about their personality and character that draws others is the

easiest way I can think of to describe alpha. There are jerky or aggressive alpha men and there are confident and

laid back alpha men. I pride myself on being the latter. I dont even need or want the spotlight yet It seems in a

group I am often handed it. Some alphas even start out one way and end up another way ((Watch Scarface)). Some live

by the law and others dont. None give a damn what anyone thinks...especially those that symbolize crabs in a jar

trying to drag them back to their level. So no.... I gotta disagree here. I mean there are differences between an

alpha of 21st century but the basic definitions and variations of the personality remain the same. I definately

think that an Alpha is a team player in a sense but I can also tell you that an Alpha will stick up for his way of

thinking and for what he believes in and if you want to contest him...teammate or not....you will have your hands

full. That has been my experience with the real hardcore guys anyways. Personally I believe there is room for

variance in opinion and that everyone has a point. It comes down to which point is your point of view in the end

though.

[surfs_up]

Authority comes from many things, having good judgement and being recognized for it,

being a good leader, a sense of fairness, basically being seen as a quality person who has the guts to take care of

things that others might shy away from, being a good negotiator, not constantly having to overcompensate for

something missing by putting on a big macho act... authority is something that people sense but can't

define...

Intimidation or being overbearing is different material, it's based on missing the capacity to

feel what someone else is going through or rule through brute thuggishness.

If you have real authority you

rise to the top of organizations, if all you're riding on is a capacity to intimidate the best job you'll get is

the bouncer or doorman at a club, or the equivalent of that.

People with authority are excellent listeners,

although they aren't pushovers, they know how to analyse situations, and they aren't easily offended, because they

know the value of just criticism and the importance of hearing things that the don't immediately agree

with.

Intimidators hear criticism (or just plain accurate observations) as a personal affront, let me

rephrase that, they DON'T hear criticism... they tune it out, shout it down, or banish it from their little

kingdoms... they love to tell others what jerks and assholes they are, especially persons who aren't in a position

to respond directly... they eventually WILL learn one of the most basic rules of life...

Goes like this: "be

nice to the people you meet on your way up, because you'll meet them again on your way down"

no truer words

were ever spoken.

[belgareth]

An alpha, which is a term used

to describe natural orders, is a leader. The alpha is responsible for the well being of those around him. Thus a

true alpha would never slam his teammates. Instead, he would be doing his best to help them to be better at what

they do. Slamming them only serves to demoralize the whole group and that is bad for the teams performance.



I've known lots of very talented jackasses, the lack of an alpha's characteristics does not preclude their

ability to rise in corporations or society in general. Those that you describe may be alphas by your defination but

not by any realistic defination based on the true meaning of the term.

[DUKE3100]

I've known

lots of very talented jackasses, the lack of an alpha's characteristics does not preclude their ability to rise in

corporations or society in general. Those that you describe may be alphas by your defination but not by any

realistic defination based on the true meaning of the term.

No no Belgareth....I am not talking about

jerks or jackasses. I am talking about Alpha males. Sadly just because you are a jerk or a jackass does not strip

that Alpha title. You can define it however you want to based on any definition you want. An Alpha male is simply

the leader or dominant male to males in a social circle and females want his cock. There are no rules to their

personality that strip their Alpha title. Now I have no time to debate what a Alpha male is with you. I gotta go get

a buzz on. Besides I believe this has been done more than once before....Peace.

[DUKE3100]

Authority comes

from many things, having good judgement and being recognized for it, being a good leader, a sense of fairness,

basically being seen as a quality person who has the guts to take care of things that others might shy away from,

being a good negotiator, not constantly having to overcompensate for something missing by putting on a big macho

act... authority is something that people sense but can't define...

Intimidation or being overbearing is

different material, it's based on missing the capacity to feel what someone else is going through or rule through

brute thuggishness.

If you have real authority you rise to the top of organizations, if all you're riding on

is a capacity to intimidate the best job you'll get is the bouncer or doorman at a club, or the equivalent of

that.

People with authority are excellent listeners, although they aren't pushovers, they know how to analyse

situations, and they aren't easily offended, because they know the value of just criticism and the importance of

hearing things that the don't immediately agree with.

Intimidators hear criticism (or just plain accurate

observations) as a personal affront, let me rephrase that, they DON'T hear criticism... they tune it out, shout it

down, or banish it from their little kingdoms... they love to tell others what jerks and assholes they are,

especially persons who aren't in a position to respond directly... they eventually WILL learn one of the most basic

rules of life...

Goes like this: "be nice to the people you meet on your way up, because you'll meet them

again on your way down"

no truer words were ever spoken.

That is one of the best

posts I have ever seen on this site. Good one Dude!!

[belgareth]

No no

Belgareth....I am not talking about jerks or jackasses. I am talking about Alpha males. Sadly just because you are a

jerk or a jackass does not strip that Alpha title. You can define it however you want to based on any definition you

want. An Alpha male is simply the leader or dominant male to males in a social circle and females want his cock.

There are no rules to their personality that strip their Alpha title. Now I have no time to debate what a Alpha male

is with you. I gotta go get a buzz on. Besides I believe this has been done more than once

before....Peace.

It's been done time and again. Despite that, and despite your opinion, there is a

real genuine scientific definition for an alpha and what you described does not fit that description in either the

animal kingdom or in modern psychology.

[Gegogi]

Terell Owens is a lone wolf, not

an alpha male.

[surfs_up]

yeah, it's true I've seem 'em as well; weasels, liars, creeps, manipulators, general head cases,

selfish slimeballs that have been exceptioanlly effective and/or successful... so I don't know how far this alpha

distinction perfectly accounts for everything out there... there's a valuable book about the sociopatic personality

by Martha Stout PhD, "The Sociopath Next Door"... she's a specialist in the sociopathic disorder and knows whereof

she speaks... according to her "life is reduced to a contest...controlling others-winning-is more compelling than

anything or any else...they theorize that all people are the same-unscrupulous, like them - but theorize that all

people are dishonestly playacting something mythical called conscience... (and here's a fascinating part) what

sociopaths envy, and may seek to destroy as part of the game, is usually something in the character structure of a

person with a conscience, and strong characters are often specially targeted by sociopaths (!wow)... and... the

intense charm of people who have no conscience, a kind of inexplicable charisma...yet... actively campaigns for your

sympathy"... this book was pretty mind boggling, and I have no doubt that a certain percentage of hardcore seduction

players are sociopaths or borderline sociopaths that have mastered the benevolent Alpha disguise... something to

ponder

[belgareth]

Thanks, Surfs up. I'll look it

up, it sounds like it may be good reading.

No, I'm not trying to get picky about semantics but you can't

really have a debate when basic terms used in the debate have completely different meanings. It seems reasonable to

use correct definitions to avoid confussion.

My ex-mother in law is a PhD psychologist. We've had numerous

conversations on the subject of dominance and the relationship between the animal kingdom and us humans. A lot of it

is extremely uncomplimentary to us people. Between what I learned in collge and what she taught me I believe you've

hit it right on the money with the sociopathy comments.

While it was fiction, much of the character Hannibal

Lector is based on good phychological principle. He would be the epitome of a true sociopath. Without the

cannibalism you can see many examples of the same behavoir in society, as you described.

[DUKE3100]

It's been

done time and again. Despite that, and despite your opinion, there is a real genuine scientific definition for an

alpha and what you described does not fit that description in either the animal kingdom or in modern

psychology.

I went and did a search to the Free dictionary just for you man. Here was one of the

definitions:

Being the highest ranked or most dominant individual of one's sex. Used of social animals



Thats just another way of saying what I was saying.

[DUKE3100]

Terell Owens is a

lone wolf, not an alpha male.

True...I was using T.O as an example of someone with too much of a BIG

EGO.

[DUKE3100]

I have no doubt

that a certain percentage of hardcore seduction players are sociopaths or borderline sociopaths that have mastered

the benevolent Alpha disguise... something to ponder

I think your probably right. A player that is so

deep in that all he cares about is the next girl he will land with a game that has nothing to do with his

personality either

A) has an extreme case of nimphomania

B) Is acting on deep desires to be an actor

C)

Has some sort of mental disorder like a gambler

D) Is a sociopath (This one is a little far fetched but I am

sure sociopaths are well versed with their skills, especially those that prey on women)

[belgareth]

I went and did

a search to the Free dictionary just for you man. Here was one of the definitions:

Being the highest ranked or

most dominant individual of one's sex. Used of social animals

Thats just another way of saying what I was

saying.

That's an over-simplification but I think you know that. I imagine you could describe your work

in a single sentence too. But I also imagine it would take at least a page and probably a lot more to really tell

what you do. There are volumes written on what comprises an alpha characteristic and that doesn't even begin to

touch it.

[surfs_up]

some

studies of baboon societies have shown that good leadership and destructive leadership in the highest rank male

depends a lot on the "character" of the animal. Baboons can have generous, kind, nurturing father figure type Alpha

that sometimes are replaced, by age, combat, or "invasion" by an outside group with bad-Alphas that are surly,

vindictive, murderous.... and determined to produce large numbers of offspring like themselves. One interesting

thing is that the baboon societies will tolerate this warped Alpha conduct up to a point, when there can be

spontaneous rebellions by the female members of the clan who will mob, injure, and possibly bite to death the

bad-Alpha, unless he is unusually powerful and intimidating. If the bad-Alpha survives he ususally is demoted to the

lowest social position and has to earn his place back. In one case a baboon clan was taken over by bad-Alpha stock

who dominated the food supply, leaving all the betas to forage while the Alpha inner circle got to feast on the town

dump out in Kenya somewhere... sadly for the Alpha crowd, there was a tuberculosis epidemic in the village, and all

the Alphas died swiftly from TB, leaving a pure Beta population, which shunned the village and the dump, lacking the

Alpha fearlessness of humans.... the primate zoologists studying this baboon society observed that the clan, now

free of the bad-Alpha element (and their genetics too ?) reorganized itself into a harmonious, well behaved society

and returned to the bush and appeared to thrive doing tradtional monkey things and staying well away from humans. I

don't know if there is a relationship between bad-Alphaness in monkeys and sociopathy or anti-social behavior in

humans, however sociopathic and related personalities are noted for a love of adventure and excessive risk taking,

they have a diminished experience of fear, they don't form lasting emotional bonds, and they are highly promiscuous

(all of that is a recipe for a playa on several levels).... this is supposedly why the sociopathic genes persist in

modern humans, they produce a lot of unclaimed kids, according to Dr. Stout, about 1:25 people today has some degree

of sociopathic disorder... actually, a moderate dose of it may make certain people highly effective in jobs where

hustling and getting over is required.... anybody remember a company down in Houston known as Enron ?