Memoirs of a newbie

[belgareth]

Flexibility and imagination is

the key rather than a rigid set of rules. Until I found this forum I had no clue there was even a set of rules.

Never had much trouble with getting laid either. Again, I may be seeing it from a different perspective because

I've never played the club scene. Never had any reason or desire to go that route. Plenty of other places with

fewer games.

Gegogi,

It's funny how opposite you and I are but we seemed to have learned very similar

lessons about life and females. I rarely have any disagreement with any of your thoughts about it.

[bjf]

there is a

possibility that pheromones are doing their job and the user isn't socially adept, good enough at picking up on

social nuances, to sense how act 1, scene 2 is unfolding, or doesn't know what to do with the energies that are

released when the -mone shifts happen. Face it, a lot of guys, probably the majority of guys, are poorly attuned to

minimal cues and what they might imply. So they have a memorized routine... be cocky and funny be cocky and funny be

cocky and funny... and they pour more of this on at every turn, and the woman is thinking "what is wrong with this

doofus he isn't listening to me ?" or more like "this pompous jerk is so into his shallow self there's no room for

me in this conversation"... or "this guy is hiding behind such an blatantly bad act" that they feel dumped on,

overloaded with stuff they don't care about, or they could see better on the Lifetime Channel... from experience

with many combinations of -mones the best connections are built from simple, uncomplicated, organic interchange,

underacted, underplayed, kind of minimal and rich at the same time... because I think at the root of it, all of us

want to be "felt", understood, gotten, acknowledged as a person, valued for what we are.... good verb, to value...

the pheromone may create that opening where it is okay to express something more intimate and personal in the middle

of an impersonal world, you know in a world full of cell phones and gadgets blinking shit, ring tones, poses,

celebrity cribs, and in the middle of all that crap a moment opens up and somebody snaps to what you're about....

that's cool, that's mystical... if you can get yourself in that place, and you have the -mones as your trusty

allies that will then put demands on your skills... -mones are funny that way because they open up so many more

possibilities that you might not have been prepared for, how many people have written "she was

agitated/flustered/aroused whatever and I didn't know what to do next" ?

i love your writing...

[jambat]

I don't

know... she's been telling me about the various guys she had/has crushes on, and about how glad she was that her

ex-boyfriend had just broken up with his more recent girlfriend and her hope that she would get back together with

him, etc.

Clearly the chick is not into you. Let her see what's happening with this old boyfriend

she wants to be with so much. In the mean time move on. If you two come back together, great if not, oh well.

There's more of them than there are of us. I mean why start making moves now. If she's free and clear and the

thing with her ex doesn't work out, then move in. Why? "her hope that she would get back together with him". That

speaks volumes to me. Her mind is with him, let it be.

-The Bat

[valentines_garden]

I

really hope that you understand exactly how and how much I mean this: If you want a girl, make her want you and

advance the relationship. Worry about if she wants you after you have tried. Well actually worry about it never, but

you get the point.

Well, read what I said again: I am NOT interested in this girl romantically. She's a

good friend, and that's all I'm looking for in her at the moment. If I was really interested in "advancing the

relationship", I would definitely make a move. I'm mostly looking at other girls, though this one's a good enough

friend that I can casually flirt with her without feeling awkward, so she's probably good to practice on...

[valentines_garden]

Clearly

the chick is not into you. Let her see what's happening with this old boyfriend she wants to be with so much. In

the mean time move on. If you two come back together, great if not, oh well. There's more of them than there are of

us. I mean why start making moves now. If she's free and clear and the thing with her ex doesn't work out, then

move in. Why? "her hope that she would get back together with him". That speaks volumes to me. Her mind is with him,

let it be.

-The Bat

Sigh... I'm NOT into her, and never was. Not sure how I gave that impression.

The girl I mentioned early in my first post (that rejected me and is now going out with someone else) is a different

girl. And, difficult though it was for a short period of time, I've moved on.

[DUKE3100]

Sigh... I'm NOT into her, and never was. Not sure how I gave that impression. The girl I

mentioned early in my first post (that rejected me and is now going out with someone else) is a different girl. And,

difficult though it was for a short period of time, I've moved on.

I am sure this thread has become

overwhelming for you....but you would be wise to take the advice. This girl or that girl or the girl under the bed

isnt the point here....and you know that. You have sent the message in many of your posts that you are struggling

with girls romantically and only seem to be consistant with making non-sexual friends out of girls. Dont let your

pride make you turn a cheek on the problem....or you will continue to have the problem. We are all trying to help

you. SOme of us may have been in your situation and can relate to it. This isnt an attack but none of us want to let

you go on with the impression that you can throw on some mones alone to solve this problem. If you want to succeed

in your goals you will need to combine mones with some actions. You are right....you should be practicing on girls

whether you want them or not. Now this conversation has started to get on my nerves as it has just become counter

productive and I have a strange feeling that you are only interested in some quick fix ((magic mones that turn

friends into lover)) or just "getting lucky"....There is nothing wrong with continueing to do what you do and hoping

someday a girl will decide she will give you a chance to turn her on....but if she does give you that chance I hope

you will know what to do...otherwise she will eventually leave you for the guy in the Porshe. Here is one more piece

of advice for you "my sweet little" valentine's garden......its best to be a man that sprinkles in the gardens and

valentines. Otherwise your flowers will end up being trampled eventually. I'M OUT.

[valentines_garden]

Well, that's my

point. I AM trying to practice on girls whether I want them or not. Quick fixes or getting lucky sound nice but I'm

not hedging my bets on them. I know it's going to take awhile to master the art of attracting girls but I'm going

to stick at it. I do appreciate all your advice and I am thinking them through and seeing how I can incorporate them

into my game plan. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I was too proud to change my attitude about girls. I

have pride but I'm not letting it overrule practicality.

[DUKE3100]

Well,

that's my point. I AM trying to practice on girls whether I want them or not. Quick fixes or getting lucky sound

nice but I'm not hedging my bets on them. I know it's going to take awhile to master the art of attracting girls

but I'm going to stick at it. I do appreciate all your advice and I am thinking them through and seeing how I can

incorporate them into my game plan. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I was too proud to change my attitude

about girls. I have pride but I'm not letting it overrule practicality.

Good to hear....I got a story

for everyone that expands on the trampled flower in the garden advice. My roomate met a girl a few weeks ago. I dont

know him that well but I know that the girl would always be in his room with the door open and that she kept

checking me out. This guy was cooking for her almost every night and ended up getting her a dozen roses....I

remember saying "Hey man where is *MY* dinner" it got everyone laughing.....It was soon after the dozen roses that

the fights started. Seems he was upsett that she was talking to some guy who she said is just a friend. They had

been together less than a month and it was over. The dude cooked her dinner and got her flowers. Text book to what a

man should do to show a women he is good for her right? Well wrong. This stuff is good to do ((with more

origionality/creativity and surprise in smaller occurance so as to not become predictable))...if she earns it after

some time together (more than a month). There are better ways to show your good side early on. Chances are if you

buy a dozen roses and go through a bunch of trouble to show her you are special you are going to be moving too fast

and getting too involved and putting your ego on the line thus diminishing your manhood with her. My game used to be

that I was the hero....the white knight....the savior to all women....I was a moron. The only game I had was getting

her to throw up in her mouth with my hopeless romantic antics.

[valentines_garden]

Good story. I learned

that from my previous experience -- she didn't want me, but I hoped that if I kept at it for long enough she would

eventually give in. I gave her a keychain with her name on it, and flowers. And then she started dating a useless

pothead. I realize now what an idiot I was. That's not going to happen to me again.

[belgareth]

There's a fine example of how

to screw up a relationship. Your roommate was not being a man he was being a supplicant and trying to by a

relationship. That might work one out of a thousand times but no more often than that. Then, she starts talking to

some other guy and he starts acting like an insecure, possessive idiot!

A point here, even a friendship is not

so one-sided. How many people are friends with somebody who simply takes from the relationship and never give

anything back? Whether its with a male or a female you are still a supplicant and a wimp. Anybody in that position

needs to stop, step back a couple paces and reevaluate what the hell they are doing with their lives. Otherwise they

are going to spend their whole life getting walked on and being a carpet is not a good way to live.

Geeze! Those

are just some basic rules of life in general.

Don't be a dorrmat is the very first one.

[DUKE3100]

YUP,

I haven't had the

heart to tell him what happened....I think he probably figured it out on his own anyways. It took me some time to

figure it out too. In todays society there is a lot of doormat literature out there that can be misinterpreted to

mean give everything of yourself and eventually it will be returned....sadly the world will eat you alive with that

mentality.

[belgareth]

I give a lot to the world but

it's by my choice and not with the hope of getting anything in return. I think its called altruism. But that's

altogether different from being a doormat.

[DUKE3100]

yup....


The problem I

used to have is that by nature I was very nice and very accomidating. I got off on making people's day and boosting

them up and doing things for others. I didnt do it for any benefit other than because I care about others....problem

is that most people become like parona when they meet someone like me and when I would put my foot down they would

treat me as if I was a jerk....so I cut the whole thing off real quick. My new motto has been go ****

yourself....and it has worked much better for me. I feel a little more empty than I used to...but when I do

something nice for someone now I still do it cause I care....and the person cares that I do it too.

[Gegogi]

There's actually a comfy middle

ground between "making everyone's day" and "go fcuk yourself!"

Well, Belgareth, I wish I knew the basic

rules of life 30 years ago! However, the basic and obvious usually isn't apparent when you're 18 to 20. You

usually need to attend the school of hard knocks for that. Heck, a lot of guys at that age are still experiencing

physical growth and lack facial hair.

[jambat]

Another thing just in general is

girls love attention. You stop giving it to them and you watch the reaction. I had a female friend say to me one

time "I miss the attention." What had happened? We were working at a company and when another girl came, who I

became actually interested in I must've stopped talking to my friend as much.

Ironically there was a mutual

attraction between me and her but she had a man and a child with him and know way was I going to get involved with

that unless she was to make a clean break with him and of course (as I figured they got back together). Also for

whatever reason my best female friends usually start off thinking I'm some kind of evil villain or something.



This one I started the post about originally thought I was some kind of greasy pimp (her words) and I don't

know what my current best female friend thought I was but she didn't like me and eventually we ended up being

friends. Weird.

-The Bat

[DUKE3100]

There's actually

a comfy middle ground between "making everyone's day" and "go fcuk yourself!"

Gegogi....I think

everyone else knows what I mean. Obviously I am not walking around like a jerk. My "go **** yourself is different

than yours or anyone else's definition. I will lead and I will make the world my reality and I will not allow

others to walk on me. I will do things on my terms. Its "if you dont like me or what I say its your problem and not

mine". Its if you truely like me than you will go out with me for me not because I buy you dinner. Thats my "go ****

yourself" Its not the jail birds version.

P.S I am in my 20's by the way and my learning process is opposite of

yours. I have learned I was too soft and too nice......now I am not and I sprinkle it in instead of pour it on like

salt. It works much better too. It doesnt mean we are in two different places. If you indeed do get that are half

your age I can assure you that it is not because you talk with them about their problems or their sex with other

guys....its for other "manly" reasons. Being a friend or their girlfriend or a crybaby or a wimp who doesnt dare

tease or flirt does not EVER get a girl. THe only girls it will get is the psycho ones. I dont care if you are The

Jedi of orgasm....you will never convince me otherwise.

[Gegogi]

Well, "go fcuk yourself" does

come off as sounding rather angry and bitter and doesn't really illustrate the underlying philosophy. I like to

hang loose and go with the flow. Err, that translates into "do things on my own terms but take a detour or two if it

feels good."

Actually women love to confess and confide in me, at least initially. It stops later when they

find out I'm a dickhead like all the other guys they know! Telling a guy they hardly know their secrets creates an

illusion of intimacy. At that time they feel close to me and trust me. Now I could blow the moment by acting like a

priest or counselor. I just listen and utter a few sensible comments and stroke them with mild flirting and teasing.

I continue to demonstrate my interest with eye contact, smiles and body language. Nothing over the top, but obvious

to all but the dimmest. Young women seem to be impressed with authority and confidence so I act out their little

fantasy if I'm really in good form. Thus, they share a "girlfriend moment," feel close, make an emotional

connnection but know without a doubt I see them as a woman and have a big cock ready and waiting for them. Some of

them leave so shaken they appear as those they may wet themselves (I'd like that). I'm sure the NPA helps too.

However, they always come back for more.

[DUKE3100]

Sounds good....

[Rbt]

Thoughts:

#1 I wish I knew then

what I know now.... (have learned over the years) <sigh>

#2 No battle plan survives first contact with the

enemy.

#3 You need to *observe* and alter your approach/behavior as the situation changes

(salesmanship/diplomacy/etc.).

#4 Maybe improv comedy would be better to practice than a speech class... but

acting sure does help.

#5 I find as the years go by I regret more many of the things I *didn't* do rather than

the things I *did* do.

#6 see #1... <sigh>

[DUKE3100]

Thoughts:

#1 I

wish I knew then what I know now.... (have learned over the years) <sigh>

I dont get this saying. I

hear it all the time from the older folks. Maybe when I get older I will understand.... but right now this is my

take:

Its just another excuse. When your young its cause you dont know what to do or are hesitant or shy or this

or that....then when you get older its easier just to blame it on that. Its easier to say Yea I wish I would have

been as brave as I am now back then....now I am brave but I am too old.....

It all seems like another excuse to

me. I realize the older you get the harder it is to get a young women. I dont dispute that. Heck....its not as easy

for me and I am only in my 20's....but my chances at social interaction are less since I have been out of school so

i get less cracks at the bat but I have a higher batting average.....you see?

I think the bottom line here

though people is that in life there are always going to be excuses and barriers and things making it difficult to

achieve something that has any merit or importance to you....but no matter who or what or how old you are there are

always going to be obstacles and there are always going to be people facing the same obstacles that were able to

succeed....why? They dont waste their time thinking about what they cant do something or coming up with

excuses....they go for the gold and when they are knocked down...they get back up. Just some food for thought.

[Mtnjim]

I dont get this

saying. I hear it all the time from the older folks. Maybe when I get older I will understand....

You

got it right there!
Therre is an old saying:
"The difference between the old and the young is the old have

already made the stupid mistakes the young haven't had time to make."

See, the older people aren't "wiser",

they just have "experiance"!

[Gegogi]

I realize the older you

get the harder it is to get a young women. I dont dispute that.

This really depends on the older man. For

me, it has never been easier. I realize it is some magical combination of opportunity, persona, appearance and

pheromones. Whatever, the poon is abundant. However, abundant poon means abundant problems, e.g., emotional and

social complications. I've gotten myself into more messes the last couple years due to dating younger women than my

entire life. I'm just really coming to grips with being single and trying to obey the small, still voice in the

back of my head. Yesterday my former GF, now 24, screamed at me for ruining her life. Her husband tossed her out and

divorced her because of my poor judgement. Since then I've been keeping little willie at bay but, sheesh, it's

really hard to just say no...

[belgareth]

It isn't all that difficult to

meet younger women but I'm around women of all ages for at least part of almost every day. It wouldn't be much

trouble at all to get into lots of trouble.

You are right Duke, and I am not trying to offend you, but you

don't get it. None of us did at your age either. There's nothing wrong with it. As a matter of fact, I'd be

surprised if you did get it at your age. Don't worry about it, getting older happens to everybody or almost. As

part of getting older we all learn things. There's just no way that a man your age can have the experiences and

accumulated knowledge if somebody our ages.

[Rbt]

I dont get this

saying. I hear it all the time from the older folks. Maybe when I get older I will understand.... but right now this

is my take:

Its just another excuse. When your young its cause you dont know what to do or are hesitant or shy

or this or that....then when you get older its easier just to blame it on that. Its easier to say Yea I wish I would

have been as brave as I am now back then....now I am brave but I am too old.....

It all seems like another

excuse to me. I realize the older you get the harder it is to get a young women. I dont dispute that. Heck....its

not as easy for me and I am only in my 20's....but my chances at social interaction are less since I have been out

of school so i get less cracks at the bat but I have a higher batting average.....you see?

I think the bottom

line here though people is that in life there are always going to be excuses and barriers and things making it

difficult to achieve something that has any merit or importance to you....but no matter who or what or how old you

are there are always going to be obstacles and there are always going to be people facing the same obstacles that

were able to succeed....why? They dont waste their time thinking about what they cant do something or coming up with

excuses....they go for the gold and when they are knocked down...they get back up. Just some food for

thought.

Not an excuse, but more of a reason. And I didn't "get it" till I got older either...

[DUKE3100]

Ok guys I will bite. First off

I am saying I dont get the saying...and at my age i think it is just another excuse. I am not saying I dont get it

when it comes to girls, and I am man enough to not have to beat my own chest about my success in that field. I will

give you the benefit of the doubt and say that when I get to be your age maybe I will get the meaning behind that

saying. With all due respect to your "experience" I am going to ask you to walk the walk and drop the talk. What is

it that you know now that is so special that you didnt know at my age? Why dont you enlighten me my jedi masters??

lol. What is it that you know that is better than the people who make their living off giving advice about women or

that makes you better than us?? and while we are at it why dont you enlighten us "youngsters" as to what it is you

would do with your newfound experience and knowledge that we dont get if you could of had it at our age?? That way

we can have what you never did...we can have that knowledge now and put it to use....since we are so

clueless....Forgive me if I am a little testy here but I am not the kind of person that just gives the benefit of

the doubt...you gotta earn it with me. I am sure a lot of us on this site would love to know your little secrets

that you say we dont know. I can tell you one thing...I thought I knew everything too. Its easy to think you have it

figured out when you are in a happy longterm relationship or marriage. If a successful relationship is the marker

for success though than why is it that there is over a 50 percent divorce rate? Saying yea your right Duke you dont

get it is horsecrap to me....lets hear what "it" is.

[Gegogi]

Sheesh Duke, you must have ate a

little too much turkey today! There is no definite "it." You now have more life experience than you did at age 15

and surely have learned from your mistakes and successes, tweaking your technique and behavior as you go through

life. Ten years out from now you'll laugh at some of the silly things you did in your 20s. Now I am talking about

life in general--business, friendships, love, family, etc.--not just getting poon tang.

I personally don't

see a successful love relationship as a lifelong marriage. That would be really boring. For some yes, but most of us

we tire of a relationship or grow out of it and need to move along. Success is being able to do what you love with

whom you love. If that changes from year to year or decade to decade, that is just as successful in my book as

someone doing what they love with their soul mate 'til death do they part. Different strokes for different folks.

My grandfather (early 20th century Korea) had 5 wives (concubines) and he was happy. 5 wives at once would drive me

nuts. The 10 kids he had would make me flee...

Incidentally I too wish I knew what I know now 25 years ago. I

would have avoided a hoe lotta mistakes and detours. However, you need to experience the entire ride to learn the

lesson. Sure I still screw up royal. But things are a lot easier now than back in the day, so I must be gettin'

pretty dad burn smooth.

[DUKE3100]

Sheesh Duke, you

must have ate a little too turkey today!

You can say that again...and way too much pie too....after

this post I am headin to bed!! Your post was very enlightening and it sure did help me with my perspective on

relationships....I still dont get what "it" is though. Can't anyone put it into words???

[surfs_up]

when I was younger I only had ONE perspective.... my big fat EGO... how sad is that ? With age and infirmity comes,

hopefully, the appreciation to see relationships, personal interactions, communities, as the coming together of many

perspectives... some you can easily understand and appreciate, some you can't... now I try to see the moment from

each participant's *probable* perspective (excuse the alliteration).... I will never know in absolute detail how

each sees reality so it is a best guess thing... if a sexy girl shows me some interest I still ask myself as many

questions as I can think of about her, who is she ?, what does she want ?, what are her fears ? what do I mean to

her ? what else is going on in her life ? does she want to be rescued from a bad relationship ? does she need a

sperm donor so she can have her baby ? a green card perhaps ? a wise old savior figure ? a sugar daddy ? someone to

show her how she can piece her life togehter ? how deep is she ?, can she hold my interest with more than her

appearance ? is she rigidly defined by some external image or is she capable of growth ? does she welcome the chance

to grow or does will she only motivate herself to grow and change as a last resort ? Does she have a quick

spontaneous wit or does she repeat a list of cliches ? Is she highly adaptable or does she only function in a

pre-defined environment, her "comfort zone", does she have good taste in clothes, people, ideas, beliefs or is she

crude ? Can she offer insightful constructive criticism or does she just get pissed off and say needless things ?

does she have any idea how to make a good relationship work ? Is she empathetic ? I really, really, really like to

get tot the bottom or halfway to the bottom of such questions before becoming all tangled up THEN finding out...

[DUKE3100]

[QUOTE=surfs_up]when I was

younger I only had ONE perspective.... my big fat EGO... how sad is that ? [QUOTE]

Whats sad is how many females

are turned on by a big ego. My dream girl is a girl that I can give my heart with no ego and keep her love and

respect. Unfortunately most women seem attracted to ego and other stuff in that relation. Maybe its because I am

kind of a bad boy and have a leather jacket and come across lookwise as a strong guy. Maybe its just the

advertisement I inadvertantly give off. At my core I am an very intelligent, deep, philisophical, caring, hopeless

romantic who loves a great sunset or the spotaneality of the moment. Who can say what he feels and be real with a

woman. These days I find its better to keep on some armor and put up walls until I can figure out that stuff you

speak of. Once I figure it out if it meets what I am looking for I can open up a little more and be less of a Clint

Eastwood or Eminem and more of a Don Juan or Loverboy but when push comes to shove and you go to bed at night all

you truely can rely on in this life is yourself. If you live your life for others and care about how they percieve

you than you lack character and heart. If you sell out on yourself who else is going to have your back? Sure a great

lover comes by here and there and you fall in love and time stands still.....I have been there.....but without self

pride and respect.....without some sort of an ego to protect yourself from the harsh world....it will all come

tumbling down and you will be left with no one to point the finger at except yourself. You write a great passage and

I love your skills. You make great points and when it comes to finding the right women you have it nailed to a

tee....but the "it" the experienced older guys speak of is still some what of a mystery to me. If your saying that

"it" is that if you stay true to yourself and know what you want than you will find it....then that is probably the

closest and best description I could possible think of for "it".

[surfs_up]

time.

There are those who love and cling to

their Comfort Zone and there are those who step to the edge, in an intelligent way (very often, in our media

culture, "edgy" means taking unnecessary risks or acting out in childish, demanding, offensive ways... like in the

60s we had the same delusions about being "creative"... as in any useless, self indulgent crap was justified as long

as you were being "creative"... man we saw some awful bad self expression as a result....phew!)... so, a guy whose

joined up with the Special Forces may have pushed his edge in one way, a guy who'se gone through the Defense

Language School and mastered Pashto, then joined a Buddhist monestary and lived there for five years.... that guy

has seriously pushed his edge where one push means grasping a perspective 180 degrees out of phase with his first

one... it's deeper that switching out one look for another look, you have to figure out ways of living that open up

your head to the complexities and ambiguities of life... 'cause too many life situations are narrow and mentally

narrowing... and fashion and lifestyles and things like that are marketed as pseudo freedoms from all these ghettos

our heads can become frozen in... unltimately what distinguishes you is having something to say that is real,

personal, specific, and valuable that you and you alone could have learned and mastered from living.