Latest on Androstadienone

[jvkohl]

Changes in the

Odor Quality of Androstadienone During Exposure-Induced Sensitization
Tim J.C. Jacob, Liwei Wang, Sajjida

Jaffer, and Sara McPhee
Chem. Senses published 9 November 2005, 10.1093/chemse/bji073


http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...ct/bji073v1?ct

[ohmmmm]

My gut feeling is that A1 is an

enhancer to other envioronmental things, be it pheromones, hugs and etc. It has sort of a first impression type of

effect that gets people to remember you. My experience is that A1 combined with SOE and a small amount of none will

make a woman feel good and she will remember the person (me) and have an attraction the second meeting. The tricky

thing for me is that sometimes if I'm not wearing pheromones the second time or the mix is different, there will be

a negative reaction. A negative reaction could also be if my attitude is different or whatever on the second

meeting. A woman will definately get a pre-concieved notion about the person wearing the A1 and if its sexual, the

person should be ready to adapt to the first impression that the person has or it is likely to be a negative

encounter. Consequently, A1 added to the mix is great for first impressions but sometimes I get wierd reactions the

next meeting....imho

[DUKE3100]

Thanks for that.

[PheroQuirk]

ohmmmm - do you mean she is expecting you to make a move the second time you see her and will be upset

if you don't?

[ohmmmm]

No, Phero...its almost the

opposite...Often the woman makes the move the second time I see her or at least is more into me. She will often say

something provocative or be more observant. In example, I joined a yoga/spiritual class recently and wore some

pheromones to class. I've allways been polite and nice to an attractive Korean woman but there was never any

flirting or sexual thing going on before. The class after I wore the mones with A1, she was changing her clothes in

a large closet that everyone uses and I was waiting for her to finish so I could change too. When she came out she

said that had she know I was waiting all that time, she would have invited me in to change with her.... Cool...

Unfortunately, I could not respond well as there was another woman I like more standing right next to me and it was

not really appropriate to tease back in such a manner at this location. Well, because I didn't respond back in a

flirty, teasing or smart-ass way, she acted very cold to me after that.

This example is not an isolated event.

It happens often that when I wear mones with A1, the attraction from the mones shows up the second time I see the

person. First time positive responses are generally smiles and better moods vs. second time responders which is

either a bit more aggressive by the woman or kind of a silent but watching response.

[PheroQuirk]

Thanks - very helpful. I

shall pay more attention the next time and experiment with different responses.

[jollysnowdevil]

No,

Phero...its almost the opposite...Often the woman makes the move the second time I see her or at least is more into

me. She will often say something provocative or be more observant. In example, I joined a yoga/spiritual class

recently and wore some pheromones to class. I've allways been polite and nice to an attractive Korean woman but

there was never any flirting or sexual thing going on before. The class after I wore the mones with A1, she was

changing her clothes in a large closet that everyone uses and I was waiting for her to finish so I could change too.

When she came out she said that had she know I was waiting all that time, she would have invited me in to change

with her.... Cool... Unfortunately, I could not respond well as there was another woman I like more standing right

next to me and it was not really appropriate to tease back in such a manner at this location. Well, because I

didn't respond back in a flirty, teasing or smart-ass way, she acted very cold to me after that.

This example

is not an isolated event. It happens often that when I wear mones with A1, the attraction from the mones shows up

the second time I see the person. First time positive responses are generally smiles and better moods vs. second

time responders which is either a bit more aggressive by the woman or kind of a silent but watching

response.

great feedback!!! most of the reports ive read just say wearing a1 has definately

made positive influences. none of them really went into too much detail on how reactions were different.

very

interesting indeed. what other products are you wearing with the a1? have you observed any such reactions while

wearing just a1? also for these encounters were you wearing roughly the same mones and amounts? of course how much

were you wearing and what strength?

finally are these observations made in comparison to reactions recieved

while not including a1 in such a mix?

i've been debating whether to pick up either a1 or a314 lately. obviously

it will be one mone or the other as i like to slowly play with new additions to best isolate and understand how they

work. any thoughts or opinions.

[tim929]

Hey Doc...did I read that right?

Is the indication that repeated exposure to Androstadienone may have negative results? Sorry...Im about as

bright as a two watt light bulb sometimes.

[ohmmmm]

I have not used a314 and I'm no

expert. The real reason that the Korean Lady was attracted to me was probably because her SO is a drunk and she

needed to feel wanted and desirable. I paid attention to her for some time and I presented myself as a decent and

caring person who would show real interest in her. The mones might have helped and maybe they didn't, but I think

they did. That is the truth.

I've bought some different products along the way and a couple drops of A1 on the

neck, some SOE on the top of hands and neck, and a drop of none below the neck is what I use. I've tried TE which

doesn't work that well for me, but works for others. AE works as the none. My other combo that I use is A1,

Pheromone Factor and a spritz of some cheap pheromones (none) that I picked up along the way. This second combo is

slightly cheaper and I use it just to do something differnet and because I like the smell of the Pheromone Factor

and the cheap mone.. Some things work for some people and not others...so I don't know if what I use will do

anything for you.

Also, mones will not work unless you have a style and attitude that makes you, you. Like

yourself and love yourself and be the best person you can...imho.. People will be attracted to you because of your

presence...so be present in every moment and think and act purposefully. What ever you want comes from you...there

is no secret weapon that will do the work for you...yet.... Finally, if you want honey, you have to go where the

bees are... So get out as much as possible and have fun!

Best wishes...

[jvkohl]

Is the indication

that repeated exposure to Androstadienone may have negative results?

Clarification without

interpretation (I hope) via this quote (from the next to the last paragraph of the journal article's Discussion

section).

"There are few odorants whose odor quality changes, and usually the change is related to intensity,

becoming more unpleasant with increasing intensity. The reverse is true for androstadienone; the unpleasant odor

quality develops when the sensitivity increases and is in response to very low

concentrations."

JVK

[ohmmmm]

Ok, finding suggests that this

pheromone should only be worn occasionally around the same person and for short durations. Its very good to know

this info and valuable for those who wear A1. I wonder if it also means that we should shower quickly after a lot

of sweaty sex...LOL...

[DUKE3100]

Also, mones will

not work unless you have a style and attitude that makes you, you. Like yourself and love yourself and be the best

person you can...imho.. People will be attracted to you because of your presence...so be present in every moment and

think and act purposefully. What ever you want comes from you...there is no secret weapon that will do the work for

you...yet.... Finally, if you want honey, you have to go where the bees are... So get out as much as possible and

have fun!

Best wishes...

I really agree with this. To put it another way..... If you are not sure of

yourself and hide yourself from the world mones will be like taking a broken car window and putting some tape over

it. If you have the right attitude like he talks about and dont wear mones you will have excellent results....if you

DO wear mones you will have faster results and a bit of a higher close percentage...less likely to lose..

[Premizen]

This means having A1 in an

every-day combo is a bad idea, right? A1 only for special occasions or once in a while?

[PheroQuirk]

I find it interesting that nobody (that I am aware of, at least) on this forum has encountered this

problem with A1 use in real life, outside of a lab setting. It seems a potential snag worth watching for but

probably it would be hasty to give up on daily A1 use for that reason alone. I also wonder to what extent the

sensitisation might be reversible after withdrawal.

Re the other post here - the payoff from pheromones will

certainly be greater if one dresses well and has the right attitude and game. But, even if one has none of these,

the improved openness and more positive responses might encourage one to experiment in such a way that one acquires

these other important attributes.

In particular, success (however achieved) modulates hormone output to

favour a more confident attitude that results in more success. Stressed men will have their 'rone output

suppressed by cortisone and will find it harder to achieve their social goals leading to more stress. Pheromones

offer some people a way out of this trap. So, in this case, one doesn't need to start at the root of things to

make big progress.

[jvkohl]

I find it

interesting that nobody (that I am aware of, at least) on this forum has encountered this problem with A1 use in

real life, outside of a lab setting.

Good point; they used the compound itself, not in a fragrance

product. On the other hand, nobody on this Forum was on the Forum (because it wasn't here) when I had already

researched human pheromones for a decade and wrote my book in 1995.

Are some compounds better than others;

do some compounds even meet the criteria for a human "pheromone?" Lab settings won't provide all the answers, but

"real life" went on for centuries before anyone questioned whether there was such a thing as a human

pheromone.

A1 was initially touted through marketing claims of its human VNO activation. Among olfactory

researchers, these claims have fallen out of favor, and are sometimes reduced, categorically, to mere marketing

claims--given the absence of any detailed connection from the human VNO to the human hypothalamus.

In

contrast, studies have shown that androstenol caused the same human hypothalamic response: GnRH-directed LH, found

in other mammals with sexual behavior that is, no doubt, driven by pheromones. It seems likely that a fragrance

product enhanced by the addition of androstenol would produce more consistent results--given current scientific

information, which is subject to change. The mammalian model is not likely to change.



JVK

[PheroQuirk]

>

nobody on this Forum was on the Forum (because it wasn't
> here) when I had already researched human pheromones

for a
> decade and wrote my book in 1995.
Yes, we certainly owe you a great deal for pioneering developments

in this field. (A belated) Thank You.

> A1 was initially touted through marketing claims of its human
>

VNO activation. Among olfactory researchers, these claims
> have fallen out of favor, and are sometimes

reduced,
> categorically, to mere marketing claims--given the absence of
> any detailed connection from the

human VNO to the human
> hypothalamus.

One can think about truth in different ways.

Perhaps it is

true that there isn't enough evidence to support A1 being useful based on a scientific standard of truth. But

people on this forum find consistent A1-specific nuanced effects that seem to be helpful to incorporate into mixes.

That's in the context of an almost complete absence of marketing for A1 here. I don't think anyone is suggesting

one must choose between A1 and 'nol - it is horses for courses.

A1 may prove to be a far less important

pheromone than 'nol within the mammalian model but, when betting my own cash, I find it worth adding A1 (and, on

occasion, TE) for daily use to the SoE base. (Increased respect generally and my girlfriend is unable to stay cross

with me for more than 5 minutes).

Question for you regarding pregnenolone. I feel that supplementation

boosts my natural pheromonal output (of 'rone). Do you think this is just via conversion to DHEA, or are there any

other pathways this might take? [DHEA makes me feel ill, and pregnenolone seems a bit safer].


Thanks.

[jvkohl]

Perhaps it is

true that there isn't enough evidence to support A1 being useful based on a scientific standard of truth. But

people on this forum find consistent A1-specific nuanced effects that seem to be helpful to incorporate into mixes.

That's in the context of an almost complete absence of marketing for A1 here.

The initial marketing

of A1 was sufficient to ensure that journalists still comment on the human VNO, and allude to its importance.

Subsequent studies that support the unconscious affect of A1 are interesting, but its link to testosterone (as

reported in a recent article--it's a testosterone derivitive) is tentative at best. If anyone on the Forum knows

how A1 is derived from testosterone, I'd be very interested in the info.

Meanwhile, some uninformed readers

of this Forum are unlikely to know that A1 and androstadienone are supposedly the same --given the initial secrecy

about its use. This sets many people up to buy into the concept of human pheromones acting via the human VNO (wrong

concept, so far). What happens is that scientific research continues to focus on androstadienone (patented for use

in fragrance products) and most research neglects -nol and -rone. Even researchers get sucked into what they read

about in news articles, because most cannot read all of the journal articles, or cannot develop a perspective due to

all the "noise."

I don't think anyone is suggesting one must choose between A1 and

'nol...

Agreed; people will stick with what works for them. However, what works for them may happen

to bastardize the concept of human pheromones, which can be disturbing to me. For example, in the process of a

journal submission review, one of my "peers" commented that I must discuss debate over the human VNO. Obviously,

this "peer" was not informed about current olfactory research.

A1 may prove to be a

far less important pheromone than 'nol within the mammalian model....

I'm still waiting to find out

how A1 fits in any model.

Question for you regarding pregnenolone. I feel that

supplementation boosts my natural pheromonal output (of 'rone). Do you think this is just via conversion to DHEA,

or are there any other pathways this might take?

I don't have enough background in sterioid hormone

biochemistry to venture a guess. That's why I posed the question about A1 being a testosterone derivitive--after

being told A1 is not a testosterone derivitive by a well-respected

colleague.

JVK