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  1. #31
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

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    Walter,

    OK! So drawing from your knowledge, how many of the 7 methods you mentioned might be construed to be in violation of Erox\'s patent, if in fact the synthesis procedure is a part of the protection granted them?

    Oscar [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

  2. #32
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    Did Realm\'s patent make claimns about synthesis techniques. I had assumed they patented the application of androstadienone to enhance fragrances. In that case, Steraloids.com can sell pure androstadienone to researchers as long they\'re not adding it to fragrances and marketing them as pheromones. So, I think we should be able to obtain them.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    All that Erox\'s patent covers is the composition of fragrances, \"fibrous paper tissues, paints, wax candles, incense and the like\" containing up to 100 ug/ml pheromones.

    They have not patented any of the synthesis mehods or compounds. The electrophysiology and synthesis methods in the patent are supporting their invention. They are examples of the current art and help to clarify the reasons and legitimacy of the claim. So buy away...just don\'t make a -dienone pheromone perfume and resell it.

    Laney

    [ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: Laney ]

  4. #34
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    Did anyone ever check and see if we can order from steraloids.com or somewhere else to get this and other pheromones. Most sites say they sell to researchers only.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    I did not read the patent. I can\'t say if they did find a synth method. I would guess that they borrowed from literature. This is the most common method. The patent is most likely on the use of the compound in a fragrance, and calling it a unique pheromone additive, or something along those lines. I am going to send an e-mail to the fine folks at Steraloids next week. I am under the gun this week and do not really care to open a can of worms. I will let everyone know what they reply, unless the penitentiary does not have internet access. . . [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] As far as synth of the cmpd, I have to let you know, quite a number of synthetic methods end up with less than 3-5% yield. They are not worth it, unless you are the first one to synth the cmpd. This is why I would expect that they got a reference from the literature and patented around the reference. As far as the chem kits, I would guess that they never expected the rabid following that most of us on this board represent. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    I think that it is the concentration that matters more. If you have a light conentration....but you have a BUNCH of it..it\'s still a light concentration....it\'s just stronger..I think of pheros as music...

    For example....if you have a real weak bass...and you turn it up real loud, it\'s still weak

    However, if you have a real strong bass, whether it\'s loud, our soft, you can still tell how much bass it has...

    The more pheros you have...the louder they\'re going kind of...however, it\'s still the same concentration...

    I higher none content will make you more man like, a lower concentration with higher amounts won\'t make you more manlike, but rather, whoever smells them, will smell them more intensely, which, I don\'t know how much of an effect that would have on the opposite sex, as, you wouldn\'t be more manlike, but you\'d be yelling out louder

    Bart

  7. #37
    Phero Pharaoh a.k.a.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    Marv,
    I like your analogy, but still not sure if concentration is more important. For example, if you’re playing a song with heavy base in a large room, at low volume. People at the far end might not hear it. This would be like not wearing enough pheros in a dance club.

    Another example would be if you’re playing a song with weak bass at maximum volume in your car. My ears would be ringing and there’d probably be distortion coming out of the speakers. That would be like wearing too many pheros on a date.

    In both situations the song could be very pleasant to the ear but people would have a hard time appreciating it. So — given the various tastes that women have, and the various images that guys can successfully pull off — the most consistent reason for success (or lack thereof) could be the amount applied.

    Just speculating.

  8. #38
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    Ratios of different pheros are important as well as a cross section that is why i like NPA and Alter ego so much (the edge) as well they have lots of pheromones in them that is why the various mixes work well as well as the covering scent. That i think is what makes them work so well more than anything else. My NPA is working great i got the atomiser added 90% attraction- 5 % alter ego and 5% NPA and had a great day with it so there is another mix for someone willing to try it and i didnt waste a full bottle as the atomiser i think only holds 10mls anyway.

  9. #39
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    Back to this study... In short, androstenone and androstadienone were found in surprisingly high concentration in human axillary sweat, while only a low concentration of androstenol was found. This makes me wonder how androstenol can be so important to the pheromone response when it\'s normally so low in concentration.

  10. #40
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    Maybe in higer doses it has an effect remember normally nol has a short life but being synthed may be different. I stiil say that npa either has the stuff in it or enhorphins which would make more scenes anyway the research continues.

  11. #41
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    I guess I\'m thinking that androstadienone may be the true human pheromone, and the rest exert their effects through strong conditioned responses. Since -none and -dienone are present together in high concentrations, the conditioned response seems likely. However, if -nol is normally only present in low concentrations, its conditioned response seems less likely.

  12. #42
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    In high concentrations it could cause more of a response, it has been linked to being realised during foreplay which gets the giggles also in young males which is why teenage girls get the giggles along with other factors, but if it works use it i say.

  13. #43
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    Bump due to recent interest.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    I gotta chip in since my major was in music production.. hehe..

    Low volume music(overall scent) with heavy bass(pheromone) : the bass can still be felt at the other end of the room because it\'s an omnidirectional frequency.

    Loud music with low bass : you can only hear the tune(the top layer fragrance) but not feel the beat(kick of pheromone).

    hope I make sense here.

  15. #45
    **DONOTDELETE**
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    I think somebody asked about this. =)

  16. #46
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    Default Re: Concentration of pheros in sweat

    more sweat info --

    Underarm sweat comprises secretions of the apocrine, eccrine and sebaceous glands. Analyses of apocrine secretion have shown the presence of protein (10%), cholesterol (1%) and two androgen steroids: androsterone sulfate and dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (0.2%). The apocrine secretion as collected at the skin surface is odorless; however, incubation with the resident skin bacteria results in an odor profile unique to that organism. The micrococci bacteria give an \"acid odor\" to the secretion which has been characterized by head space analysis as isovoleric acid. See Labows, J. N. 1979. \"Human odors--what can they tell us?\" Perfumer and Flavorist 4:12-17. The diptheroid bacteria give a similar head space profile but the observed odor is the more distinct \"apocrine (human) odor\" usually associated with the axillary areas. Similar correlations of odor quality and bacterial populations were found in vivo. The axillary microflora of 229 subjects have been characterized quantitatively and their results correlated with the type of donor found. Micrococcaceae were present in all subjects and were the dominant organism when a faint or acid odor was noted. The aerobic diptheroids were found in 85% of the males and 66% of the females and were associated with a pungent, apocrine odor. There were no significant differences related to handedness or presence of axillary hair. See Leyden, J. J., McGinley, K. J., Hoelzle, E., Labows, J. N. and Kligman, A. M. 1981, \"The Microbiology of the Human Axillae and its Relation to Axillary Odors\", J. Invest. Dermatol. 77:413-416. The \"apocrine odor\" is similar to that of androst-16-en-3-one. See Labows, J. N. 1979, supra. Neither this steroid nor androst-16-en-3-ol, a musky odorant are present in original odorless secretion but they have been shown to be present in axillary sweat. See Bird, S. and Gower, D. B. 1982, \"Axillary 5 -androst-16-en-3-one, Cholesterol and Squalene in Men: Preliminary Evidence for 5 -androst -16-en-3-one Being a Product of Bacterial Action\". J. Steroid Biochem. 17:517-522; Bird, S. and Gower, D. B., \"Measurement of 5 -androst-16-en-one in Human Axillary Secretions by Radioimmunoassay\", J. Endocrinol. 85:80-90; and Brooksbank, B. W. L., Brown, R. and Gustafsson, J. A. 1974, \"The Detection of 5 -androst-16-en-3-ol in Human Male Axillary Sweat\", Experientia 30:864-865. In experiments in which axillary bacteria where incubated with sterile apocrine sweat, typical pungent malodor was produced only with aerobic diptheroids. This included both isovoleric acid and another component which was pungent. The odor is similar in character to androst-16-en-3-one and this material has been detected on axillary pads using radio-immunoassay procedures. See Bird, S. and Gower D. B. supra. Studies of extracts of odorous cultures of diptheroids grown on apocrine secretion by GC/MS as yet have not revealed detectable levels of androstenone. It is reasonable to assume, however, that further studies will reveal them since they are detected in axillary washings. See Personal Communication, 1984. Dr. J. N. Labows, Monell Chemical Senses Center. Apart from the above-mentioned data, Graham et al describe the remainingevidence for pheromonal communication of a human female\'s hormonal status as being \"largely circumstantial and fragmentary\".

    hope it adds to the info..

    Boomshankah!

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