Pheromones and Testosterone - a web link

[**DONOTDELETE**]

See, the claim that some pheromone products contain \"animal\" pheromones are truthful! Androstenol and androstenone are known pig pheromones. Could the same pheromones affect all mammals? Maybe to different degrees? The female pig\'s reaction is probably the most extreme.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

It is an odd question. The idea that pigs in heat are attractive is a bit disconcerting. But, the relative amounts of the different pheros could also be the differing factor between species. The fact of the matter is that there are not all that many options as far as cmpds are concerned. Imagine that there are a total of 15 pheros for mammals. There are a lot of mammals, and not a bunch of cross breeding (or trying to do that at least, down Fido!) But, I really don?t know if this is true or not. On a different note, pigs and humans are very similar on the evolutionary chain. Some of the worst cases of the flu are transmitted to humans via pigs. Odd, but true.

[Whitehall]

Here\'s an interesting link on how pheromones are produced in the body and how they relate to Testosterone production - in pigs. But, as many women have observed, men and boars are closely related animals.
http://www.rps.psu.edu/jan97/pigs.html

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well if you read the following you\'ll find that pigs and humans ARE quite similar:

\"When a boar is sexually aroused or displaying aggression, characteristic chomping jaw movements cause the secretion from the submaxillary gland of a viscous, frothy saliva with a repugnant odour 38. The boar snorts and blows the saliva close to the head of the sow. If she is receptive (because she has ovulated recently), she will adopt an immobile mating stance, which is known as \'standing\' and mating follows. In traditional farming practice, a \'teaser boar\' is used to detect \'standing\', in preparation for the expensive services of a stud boar. \"

In this article (http://www.semiochemica.org.uk/articles/elepbut4.html) it is called \"standing\", in the forum we call this behavioural pattern as \"DIHL\" (well, none of us reported yet to have immediately started mating after DIHL...). But is\'nt the female DIHL reaction on male Phero quite similar to that of the sow?
It might sound like an insult to woman, but to me it simply shows that humans are just differently developped animals.

[CJ01]

A little anecdote for everyone :
Pigs skin is more similar to human skin than that of any other animal.

Medics and nurses etc practice giving injections using pigs ears. And I do believe that make-up artists use pig skin when they need to show certain effects and wounds on film.
CJ

[Whitehall]

And then there is \"Lordosis\" where a female (of many species) arches her back, butt up, what I called in an earlier posting \"butt presentation,\" as a very powerful sexual signal from women (at least I really respond to it!) Maybe sows can\'t arch their backs but lot\'s of four-legged animals do - while standing still. As I\'ve written, my clubbing experience wearing pheromones (\"And the Hits just Kept coming\"), I got two good cases of \"butt presentation\". Yes, it was a good night!

As to pig skin, one interesting historical note is that when we doing nuclear weapon testing in the atmosphere back in the \'50s, the scientists would strap-down shaven pigs at various distances from ground zero to test the effects of the bomb\'s thermal radiation on their skins since pig skin and human skin was so similar. They\'d even dress the pigs in little military uniforms to see which ones caught on fire, etc.

How many of us guys drool at the sight of a pretty woman? Human pheromones in human saliva?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

So has anyone wearing pheromones ever go near a female pig? Does she go into the mating stance?!

[CJ01]

truth I seriously ould not take that risk! Especially not if there´s a boar around, he´d attack you very violently! And sows can be dangerous too.
CJ

[**DONOTDELETE**]

So what you all are saying, if i person worked with or around hogs they should not where pheros?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Would somone please try this out, ensure your own saftey first but see if there is a response to human pheromones from pigs and give us the results of the test. Somone here must have a pet pig.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

All of this got me interested. I\'ll try to see what i can do, or what they will do. i got some friends that raise hogs.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Sounds good morselchip works with a vet as an assistant so has lots of favourable responses from other animals as well. Dogs cats etc.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I read in some article on the net that sows do in fact respond to the synthetic pheromones used in many products.

[CJ01]

Whoami, I think that is becaus ethe older phero products (the first ones on the market) were in fact made from pigs pheromones. Now makers have gotten to the stage where human pheros can be synthesized. Correct me anyone if I´m wrong.

CJ

[**DONOTDELETE**]

This is where I have a gripe with most people on this forum. I don\'t know what compounds were in these \"old\" products, but androstenone and androstenol in most of the present products are documented pig pheromones. Search on medline if you don\'t believe it. Yes, they\'ve found even spraying androstenone near a sow without even a male pig present causes her to adopt a mating stance.

It\'s the Realm people who claim to have the only human pheromone (androstadienone), and refer to -none and -nol as pig or animal pheromones. You can see the Realm patent for their claims:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=\'5278141\'.WKU.&OS=PN/5278141&RS=PN/5278141

From what I\'ve seen, the only debate is whether -none and -nol are also human pheromones as well as a pig pheromone. However, to say that -none and -nol are human pheromones and are not pig pheromones would be totally inaccurate. They have a much stronger effect on pigs!

[oscar]

truth,

Pigs have blood and sweat and snot and semen and urine too. But this DOESN\'T preclude our producing human versions of similar substances. There are many similarities that we share with our animal cousins.

I DON\'T hear \"most people on this forum\" claiming that Androstenone and Androstenol aren\'t pig pheromones. Mostly I hear YOU drawing the conclusion that if they do exist as pheromones in pigs, they somehow cannot also be pheromones in humans. Am I wrong?

What happens if we find that pigs produce Androstadienone as well? You and the Realm folks seem to have bought into this one at least partly on the basis of its being an EXCLUSIVELY human pheromone. Why? I realize that it\'s not politically incorrect to harbor species bias, but pigs seem to do REAL well with their versions of Androstenone and Androstenol.

How much reliance SHOULD one place on the findings of a company (Erox/Pherin) that discovers a female attractant and puts it in a WOMEN\'s cologne, and the converse?

Does Androstadienone get human females to proffer their genitals? If not, I want something a little stronger if I can get it. And I DON\'T want it in a WOMEN\'S perfume, thank you!

Pigs are considerably less inhibited than most humans when it comes to mating, but I HAVE seen the biped variation on the mating stance on several occasions, both before, and since starting phero use. I just see it a lot more often now.

Oscar [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I think -none and -nol may be pheromones in multiple species. My inference that some people on this forum believe -none and -nol are exclusively human pheromones come from an answer from Bruce on FAQ.

Are your pheromones human or animal?

They are all human pheromones. No company uses animal pheromones anymore. That was a problem long ago, maybe, but not now. Nowadays the pheromones you find in popular products use pheromones that are made in a laboratory. It is just as easy to make human pheromones as it is to make animal pheromones, so there is not much point in making the wrong ones.

Now, I actually have never heard of any products in the past using anything but -none and -nol, so I don\'t get what Bruce meant by the animal pheromones. I think the same pheromones (with the exception of androstadienone) have been used by the products for many, many years, but the concentration may have increased in recent products.

I think Bruce had made the statement on FAQ to counter the statements on the Realm website that -none and -nol are animal pheromones.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I think we are getting lost here. We can consider pheromones as airborne substances affecting either humans or other species such as pigs. There is also the question of whether they are synthesized in a lab or somehow extracted from animals. I for one have no problem with the idéa that the same
_substance_ might affect both humans and other animals, regardless of whether it is synthesized or extracted from a \"natural\" source.

CJ, concerning the article I\'d read I can\'t be entirely sure since it was a while back. However, I think that it was the question of synthesized pheromones.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I still think somebody should test our pheromone mix on a female pig! Where can I find one conveniently?

What about you pet owners? Has your pets treated you any differently since you started where the mones?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

If our androstenone mix doesn\'t work on a pig, then we\'d know we have a dud!

[oscar]

truth,

Are you quite sure about that? From what I recall reading, while the pheromones may share the same name, they are species-specific in their effects.

At any rate, good luck with the pigs. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Oscar [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, the androstenone really is the same chemical compound in humans and pigs, not just the same names. The effect may be species-specific. However, from the literature, we know that female pigs adopt a mating stance when exposed to -none, so we should observe this.

It just seems like a more objective way to test our pheromones, since pig behavior is so much simpler than human.