Realm Patent (full text)

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How many of you have read the full text of the Realm patent on the use of androstadienone in fragrances? You can read the patent at the following link:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=\'5278141\'.WKU.&OS=PN/5278141&RS=PN/5278141

Here\'s an interesting excerpt about the concentration of pheromones used, even though the exact ratio is a secret:

As a concentrate, pheromones may or may not have a detectable odor. Since they bind to receptors which are physically and functionally distinct from
olfactory receptors, they may or may not carry their own smell. However, some of the pheromones described herein do in fact have an odor. As a
concentrate, the odor of these pheromones may not necessarily be pleasant. Thus, when diluted in a perfume the practical upper concentration limit is
determined by the pleasantness of the resulting fragrance. Generally, human pheromones are present in the fragrance composition of the subject invention
at a concentration of no more than about 200 .mu.g/ml, more commonly no more than about 100 .mu.g/ml, preferably no more than about 50 .mu.g/ml,
and more preferably no more than about 25 .mu.g/ml.

Pheromones have a very low threshold of detectable receptor binding and they are effective at low concentrations. Generally, human pheromones are
present in the fragrance composition of the subject invention at a concentration of at least about 50 ng/ml, more commonly at least about 100 ng/ml,
preferably at least about 500 ng/ml, more preferably at least about 1 .mu.g/ml.

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So, I guess the concentration of androstadienone in Realm for women is likely between 1 mug/ml to 25 mug/ml -- or 0.001 mg/ml to 0.025 mg/ml. Compare that to the concentration of pheromones in Edge (0.120 mg/ml) and APC (0.050 mg/ml). Of course, these are different pheromones. I still wonder how Realm was tested at 0.05 mg/ml androstenone (not androstadienone). This perplexing report makes me question ALL the results from that study.

[oscar]

truth,

What
I
want
to
know
is
how
you
managed
to
post
wider
than
the
board\'s
format
?

Oscar
[img]images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

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Huh, I don\'t know. =P.

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OK, Thunder, here\'s the original text of the patent, which I inferred the -dienone concentration of Realm for Women from. See, we\'ve been talking about this way before you showed up on the board. =).

1-25 mug/ml is the preferred concentration in the patent. This is low compared to -none concentrations in even the weakest product, like APC.

Generally, I have not worn more than 1 spray of Realm for Women, because of the feminine fragrance. Assuming the maximum concentration of 25 mug/ml this would put my dosage around 3 mug, or less than 1/6th the optimum -none dosage of 0.02 mg. It would take at least six sprays of Realm for Women to get 0.02 mg -- maybe a lot more, depending on the exact concentration. This is why I say the full potential of -dienone has not been tested.

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W.O. The link that was posted was viewed as a single word, and it was longer than the default screen. I am unsure why folks use the actual URL for the \"Text\" but they do, and that is the result.

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Maybe it would be worth smelling like an over-perfumed woman just once to give it a try? [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Otherwise we can just wait until whoever it was has tested that other product for women, as he stated in the deleted thread that it had a weaker scent.

By the way, is the scent long-lasting in Realm, or would it be possible to apply a large dose and then wait a coúple of hours to let the scent die down before testing, assuming the pheros last longer of course?

[ March 08, 2002: Message edited by: whoami ]

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I\'m really trying to stop looking at this thing. But Truth,,,as described before. Realm is not the problem or (Erox) so to speak, it is pherin. Unless you have a lot of time, which you must as much as you post here then get ready to read a lot of patents.

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I managed once to posts wider than the format dont know how though.

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gents,

Are we still chewing this one over. The problem is Pherins patents. They cover using -diene in just about everything, including lavatory cleaner!

There is of course nothing to stop anyone selling the crystaline product on any site anywhere in the world, as long as you sell it as the chemical, not mixed with any solvent, and with no warranty or description made as to use or purpose. Of course selling it even in this form on love-scent would be a problem as the nature of the site would probably be taken to imply purpose. So all someone has to do is set up a site, buy bulk from wherever, split it down and sell it on. Bit of a small market for it though, not worth the financial investment I wouldn\'t think.

still best of luck