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  1. #1
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    Default I've been putting Chikara to the test this week at especially at the gym and

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    I've been putting Chikara to the test this week at especially at the gym

    and I maybe getting somewhere with it or it could be my imagination.

    I've been going to this particular gym

    for a couple of years now. I started talking to this very attractive Mid Eastern female aobut 25 about a year

    ago.

    She always has men of all ages following her around like puppy dogs trying to talk to her. This is

    something I will never do even though like all of us I made the mistake for a couple of years in my late teens and

    early 20's.

    So mostly I'd interact with her when she'd walk by me and she'd say hello, smile, and give a

    little flirty chit chat. Then other times I would try to talk to her she'd either ignore me or just say hello w/o a

    smile.
    But always I would see her checking me out from across the other side of the gym and when I'd look in her

    direction she'd quickly look away.

    There was a period of a month maybe 5 weeks that I wouldn't say hello to

    her b/c one day she didn't even say hello. So for about 5 weeks she wouldn't say hello to me, but I would still

    see her checking me out so I'm like WTF?

    She would also very often come on a treadmill that was right next

    to mine when all the other tread mills were open. Yet she'd only keep brief conversations.

    I always thought

    she was a snob especially what others have told me about her. But I think I and they are wrong.

    Now this week

    with the Chikara which I also do believe is a builder and one needs more than one exposure to your signature with

    it.

    On Monday I was doing my chest and I was hoping to run into her and sure enough she was training in the

    same section I was. She walked by me fairly close and said hello followed by a sexy smile.

    Then I noticed she

    took a second fast look with a very quick somewhat of a surprised look on her face and went to talk to her

    girlfriend she was training with. They (mainly her) looked like giddy highschool girls when they were

    talking.

    The next day, Tuesday of this week I had 2.5 sprays on my neck and 2 on my T-shirt.

    I had

    start up with my treadmill at the end. She put her stuff on the treadmill right next to me and went in the locker. 2

    treadmills over this guy I know (as I trained with him before) who she speaks to was there and the treadmill

    inbetween her and him was empty. I thought she would've went next to him but instead she came next to me.

    I

    was speaking to her a bit asking how her week was going and what she does on weekends, if she had any vacation time.

    She kept it very brief. Almost ignoring me. Then she kept on jumping to the other treadmill to talk to the other

    guy.

    I heard her say "he's hot" and some other things. I had a phone call on my cell phone and at that point

    she went over to him again.

    I heard him say "well don't talk to me, talk to him". Then I finished on the

    treadmill and I said "I'll see you later" and she replied "chow".

    I went into the locker room as usual, and

    when I came out I waved to her. Normally she just gives a little discreet wave and little smile.



    What

    she did this time BLEW ME AWAY. Not only did she give a sexy wave and sexy smile, BUT FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER she

    gave me a very sexy wink.

    Now I'm trying to figure out if she's into me as she gives me plenty of mixed

    signals. Yes I know some women like to play hard to get, but we're beyond that point now.

    So I'm confused.

    I guess I will have to see what plays out tomorrow evening?

    So there was already some flirtiness going on

    waaaaay before the Chikara, but when I had the Chikara on I heard her say "he's hot" and she gave me that sexy wink

    and smile.

    My big quesiton is, HOW SHOULD I BE WITH HER? WHAT TYPES OF THINGS SHOULD I SAY TO HER TO KEEP IT

    ON A SEXY LEVEL?

    Thanks all sorry for the length, but there was a lot of needed detail to describe.

  2. #2
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    First off, thanks for posting!

    That seems like a girl playing very hard to get, especially with her dangling the bait in front of you. I feel you

    on the confusion, but I'll try to help as much as I can.

    To address your first question, 'HOW SHOULD I BE WITH

    HER?', I'd say KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. This can't hurt at all, plus it will allow you to further evaluate

    what signals she's sending and what the hell she's getting at. Now, when I say keep it simple, I don't mean

    don't talk to her or barely say anything. I think you should keep up what you're doing, though I don't think it

    will hurt to hint or even outright ask her to get together. As you said earlier, you don't want to be a guy who

    follows her around like a puppy dog. That would be just plain detrimental and kill all chances you have with her.



    For your second question, I have a few different answers.
    1.) The main thing you DON'T want to do is to

    wuss it up. If you start acting like her maid and servant, you're going to be fuc*ed, plain and simple.
    2.) Start

    joking with her. Bust her balls, tease her, and have fun when you speak to her. If you come across as nervous or

    tense when you talk to her, she's going to pick up on that immediately. Women are incredible at reading body

    language, and I doubt this woman is an exception.

    Lastly, keep it up with the Chikara. That seems to be the main

    catalyst for her reactions, so I think that will only help you in this situation. Good luck man!

  3. #3
    Phero Dude
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    Default

    I wonder if culture plays any

    roll in her being hard to get and sending mixed signals.If she is accustomed to dealing with men in a predatory

    environment she will tend to be very cautious in the signals she sends.Another thig to be careful of is comming off

    as a whimp.A woman who was raised with predatory men will be somwhat predatory herself and will not tolerate

    weakness.I have a friend who spent some time over seas who ran into exactly that problem.In the staes he could

    handle himself fairly well...but once he got out into the real world the rules changed and he became a doormat more

    than once.No fault of his own...they just play hard ball out there....

  4. #4
    Phero Enthusiast chicago's Avatar
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    good luck sigfreed, ask her

    out, if she say no or makes a excuse, forget about her there are millions of better chicks out there, don't waste

    your time on mind games . life is to short. move on
    ________
    Bong Pictures
    Last edited by chicago; 04-08-2011 at 03:06 PM.

  5. #5
    Kodachrome Forever! Gegogi's Avatar
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    "...don't waste your time

    on mind games . life is to short. move on"
    Now that's a personal preference. Some guys love and

    thrive on such challenges. I find the chase is often more fun than the kill.
    "I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi

  6. #6
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    just like guys girls will flirt

    with dozens of attractive guys a day given the chance - dont go getting youreself all worked up mentally - keep it

    simple stupid - ask her out as simple as that shell say no or yes (if she is playing hard to get but wants you she

    will say yes if she isnt interested she will say no) dont let her say um maybe and string u along - personally i

    want a yes off the bat without her playing games - if she is serious shell say yes if not youve lost nothing and you

    move on.

    Thats it really

  7. #7
    Phero Dude
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    Deep Purple did a song...called

    Knocking at your back door..."It's not the kill,it's the thrill of the chase..."

  8. #8
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    Ive doen the chasing - 25 now dont

    work as hard if they really are interested i let them chase me so far - make sure they are interested then move in -

    if i get a no (not maybe antoher definete date if they are busy but a straight out no or get fluffed around - i move

    on - time is percious to me dont spend my time wasting it on dead ends.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago
    good luck

    sigfreed, ask her out, if she say no or makes a excuse, forget about her there are millions of better chicks out

    there, don't waste your time on mind games . life is to short. move

    on
    __________________________________________________ __________________

    I agree to a point. I

    would not ask her out right this second. Things are just starting to develop on her end.

    Now to our

    poster:
    I would play it cool for a bit longer anyway. Once a girl is interested she stays that way if she was

    truly interested.

    I would make friends but NOT "friend friends" if you know what I mean. Then you will know

    when the oppurtunity is in front of you to call the ball and casualy ask her to meet you somewhere.

    I would

    keep it casual as I could. Seems like this is working. I wouldn't ask her out on an official date either. I would

    just drop to her where you are going to be that weekend and see if she shows up. If she is truly

    interested....she'll be there. If that doesn't work ask her to meet you out.

    Happy

  10. #10
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    Red face

    Do onto others as others do onto

    you. Sounds like you're getting tested ... 1, 2, 3, tested, but she has you posting and asking about her actions

    ... girl - 100, you - 10.

    Could be anything from teasing to how long will it take to get you to ask her out to

    "getting him" to want me too, like all the rest of the guys here at the gym falling all over themselves.

    If it

    were me, I'd mirror her past actions ... ignoring, staying out of the way, half speaking, speaking with a smile,

    winking. Sometimes you have to find your nuts, so, stand up and fight like a man you coward! Seriously, the game is

    and has been ... on! Play if you dare.
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

  11. #11
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    BigBossMan808

    First

    off, thanks for posting! That seems like a girl playing very hard to get, especially with her dangling the bait in

    front of you. I feel you on the confusion, but I'll try to help as much as I can.
    I am actually glad to

    write this first post. You are right about her dangling the bait right infront of me. I was doing abs at the end of

    the workout with a couple of other guys I know. She comes on a cable machine to do ab pulldown crunches with her

    knees on the ground if you can picture this. So every time she crunches her very attractive behind is just right

    there infront of you. We all couldn't help to look as she always where's tight gym pants where you can see her

    thong and I always see her looking at me from across the room.

    I don't want to be mean to anyone, but the first

    impression I had of her was snob as that's the body language she gave off.


    To address your first

    question, 'HOW SHOULD I BE WITH HER?', I'd say KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. This can't hurt at all, plus it will

    allow you to further evaluate what signals she's sending and what the hell she's getting at. Now, when I say keep

    it simple, I don't mean don't talk to her or barely say anything. I think you should keep up what you're doing,

    though I don't think it will hurt to hint or even outright ask her to get together. As you said earlier, you don't

    want to be a guy who follows her around like a puppy dog. That would be just plain detrimental and kill all chances

    you have with her.
    I agree with you, and I will never let myself be in a position to be her maid or follow

    her around like a puppy dog. I've seen her ask guys to go fill up her water bottle while she's on the treadmill

    and they actually do it.

    I would probably respond in a joking yet cocky way "you want me to fill up your bottle?

    How about you fill up mine instead" Or something like that to show her I'm not a waiter.

    As for signals that

    sexy wink/smile on my way out I received was probably the most flirty she's been with me and that was after I wore

    the Chikara.

    As for asking her out, that I'm a big nervous as sometimes I feel out of her league despite being

    good looking and well built. But maybe by this point she doesn't feel that way.

    For your second

    question, I have a few different answers.
    1.) The main thing you DON'T want to do is to wuss it up. If you

    start acting like her maid and servant, you're going to be fuc*ed, plain and simple.
    2.) Start joking with her.

    Bust her balls, tease her, and have fun when you speak to her. If you come across as nervous or tense when you talk

    to her, she's going to pick up on that immediately. Women are incredible at reading body language, and I doubt this

    woman is an exception.
    To number one, I will never, never, never play that game. I will be gone before it

    gets to that level.

    To number two, what types of jokes would you recommend to "bust her balls" as you say and

    tease her? I have a few but I need some new material LOL. But I know exactly what you mean. Yes I have fun with

    her.

    As for being nervous, you know what's funny? I sometimes become nervous especially being out of the dating

    scene for about three years, but since I've been wearing my Chikara, my nervousness is gone. I feel like I could

    approach any woman and not give a f^ck what they say in return.

    So with that said I am not nervous around her

    at all.

    Lastly, keep it up with the Chikara. That seems to be the main catalyst for her reactions, so I

    think that will only help you in this situation. Good luck man!
    I think you are right as I've gotten more

    positive reactions from her including a "he's hot" comment to another guy and a sexy wink/smile

    Thanks for your

    advice and I will look for your reply.

    tim929

    I wonder if culture plays any roll in her being hard

    to get and sending mixed signals.If she is accustomed to dealing with men in a predatory environment she will tend

    to be very cautious in the signals she sends.Another thig to be careful of is comming off as a whimp.A woman who was

    raised with predatory men will be somwhat predatory herself and will not tolerate weakness.I have a friend who spent

    some time over seas who ran into exactly that problem.In the states he could handle himself fairly well...but once

    he got out into the real world the rules changed and he became a doormat more than once.No fault of his own...they

    just play hard ball out there....
    This could be as she is Arabic although I don't know how strict her

    background is. But she seems pretty layed back around the gym and when I talk to her.

    I never let myself come

    off as a whimp and totally agree with you. I totally understand what you are referring to.

    Chicago


    good luck sigfreed, ask her out, if she say no or makes a excuse, forget about her there are millions of better

    chicks out there, don't waste your time on mind games . life is to short. move on
    I couldn't have said it

    better myself. Can't argue with these facts.
    BTW way where are you from Chicago?

    Just joking

    Watcher



    just like guys girls will flirt with dozens of attractive guys a day given the chance - dont go getting

    youreself all worked up mentally - keep it simple stupid - ask her out as simple as that shell say no or yes (if she

    is playing hard to get but wants you she will say yes if she isnt interested she will say no) dont let her say um

    maybe and string u along - personally i want a yes off the bat without her playing games - if she is serious shell

    say yes if not youve lost nothing and you move on.

    Thats it really
    I agree with this, but one thing

    I've noticed with some women especially when playing hard to get is that let's say you ask them out yet they say

    no.
    So you think they aren't interested and move on. But they continue talking to you and flirting with you. So

    you are like WTF? So you just go about your business. Then one day they ask you out.

    What's the deal with this?

    They don't always like to say yes to a date right away or the first time you ask them. It's been my experience

    that a no to a date, doesn't always mean no to a date. As I said I've been asked out by them after I quit spending

    my time on them.

    MobleyC57

    Do onto others as others do onto you. Sounds like you're getting tested

    ... 1, 2, 3, tested, but she has you posting and asking about her actions ... girl - 100, you - 10.

    Could be

    anything from teasing to how long will it take to get you to ask her out to "getting him" to want me too, like all

    the rest of the guys here at the gym falling all over themselves.

    If it were me, I'd mirror her past actions

    ... ignoring, staying out of the way, half speaking, speaking with a smile, winking. Sometimes you have to find your

    nuts, so, stand up and fight like a man you coward! Seriously, the game is and has been ... on! Play if you

    dare
    I agree with do onto others as they would have them do onto you. Funny thing is, she talks to me but

    doesn't really ask me very much about myself.
    I will now do what she does. If I have the opportunity I will give

    her a wink.



    But my big question goes back to BigBossMan808's reply about tease her joke with her, and

    "bust her balls" so to speak.

    My question is what are the best types of jokes to do this? I have a few, but I

    could use some new "material" LOL.

    Is there a female who would also care to elaborate on what I've written?



    But I do think that the Chikara as brought down the wall she put up otherwise I wouldn't have had the sexy

    wink/smile or overheard her say
    "I'm hot to another guy".

    I basically want to be at a point that I have her

    approaching me trying to get some sort of physical contact like brushing up on me "accidently" or putting her hands

    on mine or on my arm, flirting with me and asking things about me. That's where I want to get.

    I guess the

    best way would be KISS?

    All your opinions are greatly appreciated. Thanks again. Sorry for the long reply, I had

    a few ppl to quote and important details to add.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sigfreed
    So mostly I'd

    interact with her when she'd walk by me and she'd say hello, smile, and give a little flirty chit chat. Then other

    times I would try to talk to her she'd either ignore me or just say hello w/o a smile.
    But always I would see her

    checking me out from across the other side of the gym and when I'd look in her direction she'd quickly look

    away.

    snip

    Now this week with the Chikara which I also do believe is a builder...

    Then I noticed she

    took a second fast look with a very quick somewhat of a surprised look on her face...
    Your experiences

    with Chikara very closely mirror my own. We probably have similar chemical signatures. I agree that it tends to

    lower approach barriers on both sides, and also acts as a very effective "base" that is almost never inappropriate.

    I get EXACTLY the same kinds of IOI's you describe, both with Chikara, and with TE (although the TE is less

    consistent, but stronger when it does hit).

    And the "second fast look", combined with the "look of surprise",

    IMO, is a 100% 'mone hit. I've had EXACTLY the same types of hits, and have posted on that before. To me,

    that's a difference between a 'mone hit, and just simple attraction. You can almost tell the 'mones are

    involved, because of the surprise element. I.E., the chick has already seen, evaluated, and categorized you in .34

    microseconds, all subconsiously, as chicks are prone to do. But, the 'mones seem to add an extra element that

    wasn't previously there, and this throws them off guard for just a split second, and you get the second look, with

    the surprise expression - almost like they are experiencing a deja vu, of sorts.

    I think you've gotten

    good advice already on how to proceed. I would recommend against seeking canned material to use on her, and

    instead, just be playfully flirtatious, without being submissive, in the context of the moment. I also agree you

    should mirror her behavior a bit, do a bit of the same on again/off again (known elsewhere as a "push/pull" tactic),

    to raise her level of interest. One day, chat her up, the next day ignore her, etc. This is like deep sea fishing,

    you're going to have to pull on the line a bit, and then let it go slack, back and forth.

    Most early dating

    relationships seem to follow a general Attraction->Rapport->Seduction pattern. It seems like you've already got

    some attraction between your physical appearance, your flirting, and your 'mones.

    The mistake most guys make

    in this phase, is that they then escalate to asking for the phone number, or the date, without establishing rapport.

    If you only have attraction, but not rapport, and then try to get the #, they are usually not emotionally invested

    enough to respond, and they give the kneejerk "I have a boyfriend" reaction, whether they really have one or not.



    You need to build up some rapport with her. Maybe, one day when you are chatting her up, you can try to find some

    common ground or interest, and then, in subsequent meetings, playfully bust her on it.

    For instance, maybe you

    both really like buying collectibles of some type (just bear with me here, it's an example, not a routine. In

    subsequent meetings, ask her how her collecting is going, playfully tease her she overpaid for this or that, etc.

    Hopefully it goes without saying that your playful teasing needs to have a fun, sexual undertone to it, and gets her

    thinking of you in terms of a potential lover, rather than a friend. Plenty of advice out there on how to do that,

    I'm not going to repeat it here.

    Then, when some event comes up featuring your common interest, you mention it

    to her. You don't necessarily ask for her to go with you, just mention you were thinking about going, has she ever

    been to one of those before, etc. If she still doesn't take the hint, but you get good IOI's, then mention maybe

    you should go together. Assuming she agrees, you finish off the convo, and then when walking away, almost as an

    afterthought, say "oh wait, let me get your number so I can call you for directions/in case I get lost/to confirm

    that day/whatever. Just as if you were setting up an appointment with a male friend to go out to a bar - you

    wouldn't be all "umm, so, uh, dude, do you think I'd could like, get your number - I mean, you know, just to call

    you for this event, not to harass you or anything", he'd look at you like you were a freak, right? Same with this.

    Getting the digits should just be a natural, flowing part of the interaction, that comes from your already

    established attraction and rapport.

    That's a long way around, but you asked about getting *THIS* girl, not just

    any girl. In this environment, she is at a very high level of social value (I know exactly what you mean by the

    cable crunch/ass display move, seen that so many times), so a straight approach will most likely get shot down. You

    either have to raise your value level to her own (called "value calibration" on those "other" sites), or lower hers

    to meet your own, with tactics like "neg hits", "freezouts", "takeways", and "push/pull". Really though, with your

    already having the attraction somewhat established, I think that would be over-complicating the issue.

    Or, you

    could scrap all that, and go direct, walk right up to her, and say "You know, it seems a little ridiculous this game

    we're playing, when we're so obviously attracted to one another. I'd like to have coffee some time, so we could

    sit down, and get to know one another a little better." Assuming she agrees, then just get the # like above. May

    work, may not, but at least you'd know where you stood for sure, and that would then free you up to concentrate on

    other prospects. Wait, what the heck am I saying, you should be concentrating on other prospects simultaneously

    anyway....


    Good luck!

  13. #13
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    esk6969

    Your

    experiences with Chikara very closely mirror my own. We probably have similar chemical signatures. I agree that it

    tends to lower approach barriers on both sides, and also acts as a very effective "base" that is almost never

    inappropriate. I get EXACTLY the same kinds of IOI's you describe, both with Chikara, and with TE (although the TE

    is less consistent, but stronger when it does hit).

    And the "second fast look", combined with the "look of

    surprise", IMO, is a 100% 'mone hit. I've had EXACTLY the same types of hits, and have posted on that before. To

    me, that's a difference between a 'mone hit, and just simple attraction. You can almost tell the 'mones are

    involved, because of the surprise element. I.E., the chick has already seen, evaluated, and categorized you in .34

    microseconds, all subconsiously, as chicks are prone to do. But, the 'mones seem to add an extra element that

    wasn't previously there, and this throws them off guard for just a split second, and you get the second look, with

    the surprise expression - almost like they are experiencing a deja vu, of sorts.

    I think you've gotten

    good advice already on how to proceed. I would recommend against seeking canned material to use on her, and instead,

    just be playfully flirtatious, without being submissive, in the context of the moment. I also agree you should

    mirror her behavior a bit, do a bit of the same on again/off again (known elsewhere as a "push/pull" tactic), to

    raise her level of interest. One day, chat her up, the next day ignore her, etc. This is like deep sea fishing,

    you're going to have to pull on the line a bit, and then let it go slack, back and forth.

    Most early dating

    relationships seem to follow a general Attraction->Rapport->Seduction pattern. It seems like you've already got

    some attraction between your physical appearance, your flirting, and your 'mones.

    The mistake most guys make in

    this phase, is that they then escalate to asking for the phone number, or the date, without establishing rapport. If

    you only have attraction, but not rapport, and then try to get the #, they are usually not emotionally invested

    enough to respond, and they give the kneejerk "I have a boyfriend" reaction, whether they really have one or

    not.

    You need to build up some rapport with her. Maybe, one day when you are chatting her up, you can try to find

    some common ground or interest, and then, in subsequent meetings, playfully bust her on it.

    For instance, maybe

    you both really like buying collectibles of some type (just bear with me here, it's an example, not a routine. In

    subsequent meetings, ask her how her collecting is going, playfully tease her she overpaid for this or that, etc.

    Hopefully it goes without saying that your playful teasing needs to have a fun, sexual undertone to it, and gets her

    thinking of you in terms of a potential lover, rather than a friend. Plenty of advice out there on how to do that,

    I'm not going to repeat it here.

    Then, when some event comes up featuring your common interest, you mention it

    to her. You don't necessarily ask for her to go with you, just mention you were thinking about going, has she ever

    been to one of those before, etc. If she still doesn't take the hint, but you get good IOI's, then mention maybe

    you should go together. Assuming she agrees, you finish off the convo, and then when walking away, almost as an

    afterthought, say "oh wait, let me get your number so I can call you for directions/in case I get lost/to confirm

    that day/whatever. Just as if you were setting up an appointment with a male friend to go out to a bar - you

    wouldn't be all "umm, so, uh, dude, do you think I'd could like, get your number - I mean, you know, just to call

    you for this event, not to harass you or anything", he'd look at you like you were a freak, right? Same with this.

    Getting the digits should just be a natural, flowing part of the interaction, that comes from your already

    established attraction and rapport.

    That's a long way around, but you asked about getting *THIS* girl, not just

    any girl. In this environment, she is at a very high level of social value (I know exactly what you mean by the

    cable crunch/ass display move, seen that so many times), so a straight approach will most likely get shot down. You

    either have to raise your value level to her own (called "value calibration" on those "other" sites), or lower hers

    to meet your own, with tactics like "neg hits", "freezouts", "takeways", and "push/pull". Really though, with your

    already having the attraction somewhat established, I think that would be over-complicating the issue.

    Or, you

    could scrap all that, and go direct, walk right up to her, and say "You know, it seems a little ridiculous this game

    we're playing, when we're so obviously attracted to one another. I'd like to have coffee some time, so we could

    sit down, and get to know one another a little better." Assuming she agrees, then just get the # like above. May

    work, may not, but at least you'd know where you stood for sure, and that would then free you up to concentrate on

    other prospects. Wait, what the heck am I saying, you should be concentrating on other prospects simultaneously

    anyway....


    Good luck!
    Glad to hear someone else has had similar reactions to Chikara as me.

    Basically you said what I'm going to do. I'm just going to be cool, play it smooth. Not follow her around like a

    puppy dog or servant. I will do my best to mimmick her behavior and see what happens.

    I'm going to wait a bit

    for the number or date. But I definitely think that the Chikara has started to bring down "the wall" that many women

    can put up.

    Thanks again.

  14. #14
    Phero Enthusiast chicago's Avatar
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    sigfreed i am from chicago

    (downtown area). i dated a middle east woman before when i broke up. her brothers and relatives beat the shit out of

    me. i seen the trill of the chase cost guys time and money (sometimes a year and hundreds or maybe thousands of

    dollars) and not get shit from the chick. so be careful... good

    luck.
    ________
    Lovely Wendie
    Last edited by chicago; 04-08-2011 at 03:06 PM.

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    Sigfreed, sorry for taking so

    long to get back to you, I just got home from work and didn't have any time to reply.

    I'm glad to hear you

    don't want to be a puppy dog, that's the absolute worst way to go. Also, I'm glad to hear your confidence is

    going up! That's always a plus, and never ceases to help with women. Try out other 'mones, and see if they give

    you the same 'confidence booster' that you are getting with Chikara.

    As to busting her balls, here's what I

    mean: You said the thing about her filling up YOUR water bottle. YES! Exactly, man! You want to turn things

    around, put the role reversal in place, and have her be at the receiving end of your requests, and so forth. Make

    fun of her, but don't be outright dicky about it. Don't be like, 'hey, you look like sh!t!' or something.

    That'll just get you a slap in the face and no booty. When you tease a girl, you want to use the things she says

    as a base for your jokes. Like, if she says 'If you're lucky, you might get my phone number...' you can reply

    with 'Are you kidding? It's me we're talking about here! If you're lucky, I'll give you MY number!' and so

    on and so forth. Get what I'm saying? If not, say so, and I'll try to give more examples. Post your results

    man! Glad I could help!

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    Chicago

    sigfreed i

    am from chicago (downtown area). i dated a middle east woman before when i broke up. her brothers and relatives beat

    the shit out of me. i seen the trill of the chase cost guys time and money (sometimes a year and hundreds or maybe

    thousands of dollars) and not get shit from the chick. so be careful... good luck.
    I was just joking

    about being from Chicago LOL. So this middle eastern woman's brother's beat the shit out of you for breaking up

    with her? Or for sleeping with her?

    Did you call the police and place charges on them? I sure would've. I agree

    wasting time and money on certain women and not getting any in return.

    BigMan808

    Sigfreed, sorry for

    taking so long to get back to you, I just got home from work and didn't have any time to reply.

    I'm glad to

    hear you don't want to be a puppy dog, that's the absolute worst way to go. Also, I'm glad to hear your

    confidence is going up! That's always a plus, and never ceases to help with women. Try out other 'mones, and see

    if they give you the same 'confidence booster' that you are getting with Chikara.
    Don't sweat not

    responding, we all have our schedules and personal lives away from the forum we're on.

    As for the puppy dog or

    servant I haven't made that mistake since I was in my late teens and early 20's. Never again will I follow around

    a woman or get suckered into doing her chores. If that's how she is with me than forget her.

    Yes I feel much

    more relaxed around women when I wear the Chikara. I feel the way I used to before I started dating my ex three

    years ago. As for other mone's, which one's would you recommend that is a good sexual combination with Chikara?



    As to busting her balls, here's what I mean: You said the thing about her filling up YOUR water bottle.

    YES! Exactly, man! You want to turn things around, put the role reversal in place, and have her be at the receiving

    end of your requests, and so forth. Make fun of her, but don't be outright dicky about it. Don't be like, 'hey,

    you look like sh!t!' or something. That'll just get you a slap in the face and no booty. When you tease a girl,

    you want to use the things she says as a base for your jokes. Like, if she says 'If you're lucky, you might get my

    phone number...' you can reply with 'Are you kidding? It's me we're talking about here! If you're lucky, I'll

    give you MY number!' and so on and so forth. Get what I'm saying? If not, say so, and I'll try to give more

    examples. Post your results man! Glad I could help!
    Yes, that's what I would say if she asked me to fill

    up her water bottle. That's exactly what I thought about reversing the roles. Obviously not being dicky about it or

    telling her she looks bad.

    I always try to tease the woman I'm courting or trying to court. I've used that "if

    you're lucky you'll get my phone #" joke before and it usually works more often than not.




    This

    evening she was at the gym. Of course I saw her looking at me when she came in. For the most part she didn't

    approach me which I thought she might after she layed that sexy wink/smile at me the other day on the way out.

    I

    moved aroud the gym doing my exercises and she was on the other side and of course I saw her every so often looking

    at me. I know she was looking at me as she kept looking right into my eyes.

    Then I began doing my abs as did

    she. She gradually worked her way close to where I was doing my abs. I said "hi how are you doing?" she replied "not

    bad how are you?" I said "pretty good".

    That was about it. There were 2 other guys she obviously new in the same

    viscinity as we were. They kept going over to her every few minutes to talk to her. That's a puppy dog, they went

    out of their way to go and talk to her.

    I won't do that.

    Anyway I went to my treadmill, I saw her go to the

    locker room. I thought maybe she would come onto the treadmill but it turned out she was finished and was leaving.



    As she walked by me on the treadmill, she was almost not even going to look at me or say bye until she looked

    up and I winked at her and she gave a sexy yet at the same time shy smile.

    I personally don't think this young

    woman is a shy one. Yet I get the feeling she is either shy to talk to me more often and ask things about me or

    maybe she is intimidated but I don't think that's the case?

    What do you guys think? Could this be just an

    extreme case of playing hard to get? She's been doing this for about 6 months. Always checking me out, saying hi

    but she would never go out of her way to come and see me.

    That's why I'm confused. And her sexy/shy smile in

    response to my wink confuses me even more.

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    Phero Enthusiast chicago's Avatar
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    she is most likely fucking a

    another guy. she likes the attention she is getting from you and others at the gym. 6 month and only smiles and

    winks.

    in the name of god, please move on
    ________
    Expert

    insurance
    Last edited by chicago; 04-08-2011 at 03:07 PM.

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    "i dated a middle east

    woman before when i broke up. her brothers and relatives beat the shit out of me."
    Funny you should

    mention that. I had an Iranian GF in college. She was beautiful but a confused mix of modern western and traditional

    Iranian values. After I had been dating her for only about a month we had a fight. The next day her 2 brothers came

    over and pushed me around and made it clear they would kick my ass if I messed up their sister. I wasn't interested

    in being really serious (marriage was out of the question) or getting my ass kicked so I faded away. After all that

    trouble, I never got any!

    Incidentally, I had to ask her older brother permission to take her out on our

    first date.
    "I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi

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    Chicago

    she is most

    likely fucking a another guy. she likes the attention she is getting from you and others at the gym. 6 month and

    only smiles and winks.

    in the name of god, please move on
    I knew she was probably having sex with

    another guy or she was at one time. I agree only smiles and hello's after 6 months followed by recent winks with

    the Chikara is time to move on.

    The thing is as I said I DON'T go out of my way to talk to her or be close to

    her as many of the other guys and older men in the gym do.

    It was just interesting to see new reactions from her

    with the Chikara.
    And I got that "he's hot" reply that I've been looking for. Not only did she say it, but she

    said it to another guy that I know on Tuesday who was 2 treadmills over while she was next to me.

    LOL he was

    arguing with her and telling her to talk to me as she constantly was going over to him and I assume to ask questions

    about me b/c she knows I also talk to him. Then the sexy wink/smile.



    That's just my problem, getting her

    to approach and ask me questions. Sometimes it appears as though she is shy but I don't think she is shy at all.

    But why did her friend have to argue with her to get her to talk to me then? Why is she asking him things about me?

    I don't get it?

    Gegogi

    Funny you should mention that. I had an Iranian GF in college. She was

    beautiful but a confused mix of modern western and traditional Iranian values. After I had been dating her for only

    about a month we had a fight. The next day her 2 brothers came over and pushed me around and made it clear they

    would kick my ass if I messed up their sister. I wasn't interested in being really serious (marriage was out of the

    question) or getting my ass kicked so I faded away. After all that trouble, I never got any!

    Incidentally, I had

    to ask her older brother permission to take her out on our first date.
    I know what you mean. I dated a

    very sexy Haitian girl and eventually after a few months when I met her parents they literally told her to stop

    seeing me b/c I was a "whitey". Pretty insulting.

    I'm friends with ppl from many different nationalities

    including different African American descent, Greek, Italian, you name it. I also have Arabic friends. They and

    their families are from North America never lived in the Middle East.

    They don't behave this way even the

    Islamic and Muslim Arabs I know. And the Christian Arabs I'm friends with don't act this way either.

    So it's

    for sure a traditional culture clash.

    It's not fair, but at the same time I understand where traditional

    families are coming from.

  20. #20
    Phero Enthusiast chicago's Avatar
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    sigfreed thats her game, to

    make you think about her alot, because everytime you think about her over and over, the image of her becomes bigger

    and bigger, like advertising and brain washing, then finally controling you brain, she think its fun fucking with

    you brain. by the way woman can see right threw you that you want them , even if you dont act like a puppy. they

    can feel the were you stand.

    my last advice to you is
    1) stop thinking about her,
    2) ignore the shit out of

    her (fuck the smiles and winks)
    3) i bet you, if you see this chick after 10 years, she wont look that good (

    compare to a younger girl).
    4) everyday she is getting older and fallling apart more.
    5) chicks are like cars,

    worth lots of money when new, but worth shit when old. bad investment.
    6) the fact is chicks need you, more than

    you need them. in the long run
    7) woman know the truth about them self, that why they shop for a rich guy, and try

    to sucker him into marriage. if this arab girl knew, you were a multi-millionare, she would be sucking your dick,

    for lunch , breakfest , dinner.

    good luck

    .
    ________
    Children Depakote
    Last edited by chicago; 04-08-2011 at 03:07 PM.

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    I still don't know where you

    want to go with this girl. Do you want to take her out? Do you want to just play games? Or do you want to bang

    her like a salvation army drum? lol Depending on the outcome that you're hoping for, you need to change your

    approach. This girl doesn't seem to be wanting anything, yet she doesn't seem to be assertively rejecting you, so

    I think that means she's either playing games (VERY LIKELY), or she's just got a very strange way of showing what

    she wants.

    In my opinion, this girl is doing her best at confusing you. She's sending you mixed signals,

    talking to other people you know about you, and then completely pulling a 180 and winking at you. I feel your

    frustration, man. I know that if I was in your position, I'd be going out of my mind. Here's my advice to you

    (reply with what you want from her, and I'll make it more specific) : When you have these little short

    conversations with her, add something in quickly, like 'so, what are you up to this weekend?' or another

    sidestepping question like that. Or, if you want and have the balls to do it, outright ask her. Esk6969 had a good

    approach in his post, so I'd take that and run with it, or modify it where you feel is needed. THis little thing

    between you and her isn't going to go anywhere unless one of you gets fed up or one of you makes a move. And,

    I'll bet you the bottle of NPA I just got that it isn't going to be her.

    Come to think about it, NPA with

    Chikara would help you very much. Put a few drops of NPA on a wrist and cover it with a few sprays of Chikara. Rub

    your wrists together, and you are set. This combo is jampacked with 'mones, and I'm pretty sure that if she took

    a double take of you with the Chikara on, she'll take a triple with Chikara AND NPA. Good luck man, and post your

    results as well as where you want this to go. Hope I'm of some assistance!

  22. #22
    Full Member culturalblonde's Avatar
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    Woman's point of

    view:

    I'm wondering if she is thinking the same about you, Sigfreed (referring to your first post). Maybe

    she thinks she is not getting anywhere with you with all the smiling and waving and the one flirty wink. If you do

    make a move and it doesn't work out, are you going to be comfortable at the same gym with her? That's something

    you want to think about. Also, what are you waiting for? Do you want her to ask you out? This is one of the

    reasons most beautiful woman do not get dates, because most guys are too scared to ask them out.

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    culturalblonde


    Woman's point of view:

    I'm wondering if she is thinking the same about you, Sigfreed (referring to your first

    post). Maybe she thinks she is not getting anywhere with you with all the smiling and waving and the one flirty

    wink. If you do make a move and it doesn't work out, are you going to be comfortable at the same gym with her?

    That's something you want to think about. Also, what are you waiting for? Do you want her to ask you out? This is

    one of the reasons most beautiful woman do not get dates, because most guys are too scared to ask them out.

    I very much appreciate a woman's insight here. Well as you know I don't let myself become a puppy dog or a

    woman's personal servant like filling up her water bottle. If that happens she will think of you as a push over and

    she will take immediate advantage of you and you will become even further distant from you.

    We've all been

    through that. I made that mistake with my very second and third girlfriend, even my current ex girlfriend. My

    current ex girlfriend treated me like her personal chauffeur. I even told her so and she said that's not what was

    going on. And that was one of the reasons we broke up b/c I was doing a lot for her and her parents and she wasn't

    giving in return.


    See here's where this gym hottie confuses me. The first few months I started training

    there, the impression she gave me was snob the way she carried herself and always had men on her.

    So I don't

    usually spend my time on women as such. Until one day she came on the treadmill near me and talked to me a bit.

    That's when the hello's and smiles began.

    So I did the most natural thing and I'd try to talk to her if we

    were in the same location of the gym as I didn't want to be one of the guys she always gets following her around.



    The funny thing is when I would talk to her, she wouldn't always say much nor would she ask anything about me or

    what I was up to and so on. Most ppl that I've dated when the first initial flirting goes on, they show some

    interest by approaching me, asking about me, trying to touch me in some way and so on.

    I am basically just

    looking for some more signs of interest that I've listed above. And I'm not really getting those signs with her

    until the wink this past week and I winked back and received a sexy/shy smile. But so far she hasn't gone out of

    her way that much to approach me or find things out about me. As I said she was arguing with the guy on the

    treadmill he was trying to get her to talk to me instead of asking him about me.

    So you can see my confusion.

    Very mixed signals. As I said most women I've dated, eventually started approaching me more often to find things

    out about me.

    I don't necessarily want her to ask me out, just show me a little more just talk to me and ask

    questions about me. That's all I'm lookin for.

  24. #24
    Bad Motha Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicago
    5) chicks are like

    cars, worth lots of money when new, but worth shit when old.


    Yeesh.
    If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen

    Holmes' Theme Song

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    BigMan808


    I still

    don't know where you want to go with this girl. Do you want to take her out? Do you want to just play games? Or do

    you want to bang her like a salvation army drum? lol Depending on the outcome that you're hoping for, you need to

    change your approach. This girl doesn't seem to be wanting anything, yet she doesn't seem to be assertively

    rejecting you, so I think that means she's either playing games (VERY LIKELY), or she's just got a very strange

    way of showing what she wants.
    Well basically I'd like to get to a point of taking her out and see where

    it leads. If it's a few dates and some fun and she just wants to be friends afterwards that's okay with me, or if

    she eventually wants to be steady that's also fine with me.

    I don't even know what type of approach to have

    with this young woman b/c she gives such confusing signals to me and has yet to approach me or asked anything about

    me. So you are right about not seeming to want anything, yet at the same time not rejecting me. It very well could

    be games. But either way she's very strange in her body language. I'm just confused.

    In my opinion,

    this girl is doing her best at confusing you. She's sending you mixed signals, talking to other people you know

    about you, and then completely pulling a 180 and winking at you. I feel your frustration, man. I know that if I was

    in your position, I'd be going out of my mind. Here's my advice to you (reply with what you want from her, and

    I'll make it more specific) : When you have these little short conversations with her, add something in quickly,

    like 'so, what are you up to this weekend?' or another sidestepping question like that. Or, if you want and have

    the balls to do it, outright ask her. Esk6969 had a good approach in his post, so I'd take that and run with it, or

    modify it where you feel is needed. THis little thing between you and her isn't going to go anywhere unless one of

    you gets fed up or one of you makes a move. And, I'll bet you the bottle of NPA I just got that it isn't going to

    be her.
    Well she certainly is doing her best to confuse me, but I'm not showing it at all. Just going

    about my business.

    Funny you mention adding something more specific to our little short and brief conversations.

    Today on the way into the gym I saw her signing some papers and I asked how she was doing followed by asking how her

    Friday night was and if she did anything special. She said she didn't have a good night b/c she just stayed home

    and slept (by herself LOL).

    Come to think about it, NPA with Chikara would help you very much. Put a few

    drops of NPA on a wrist and cover it with a few sprays of Chikara. Rub your wrists together, and you are set. This

    combo is jampacked with 'mones, and I'm pretty sure that if she took a double take of you with the Chikara on,

    she'll take a triple with Chikara AND NPA. Good luck man, and post your results as well as where you want this to

    go. Hope I'm of some assistance!
    Well I was thinking about NPA. Could I also put on 2 dabs of NPA on my

    neck instead, and cover it up with Chikara?

    Thanks again for the advice.

    Chicago

    sigfreed

    thats her game, to make you think about her alot, because everytime you think about her over and over, the image of

    her becomes bigger and bigger, like advertising and brain washing, then finally controling you brain, she think its

    fun fucking with you brain. by the way woman can see right threw you that you want them , even if you dont act like

    a puppy. they can feel the were you stand.

    my last advice to you is
    1) stop thinking about her,
    2) ignore the

    shit out of her (fuck the smiles and winks)
    3) i bet you, if you see this chick after 10 years, she wont look that

    good ( compare to a younger girl).
    4) everyday she is getting older and fallling apart more.
    5) chicks are like

    cars, worth lots of money when new, but worth shit when old. bad investment.
    6) the fact is chicks need you, more

    than you need them. in the long run
    7) woman know the truth about them self, that why they shop for a rich guy, and

    try to sucker him into marriage. if this arab girl knew, you were a multi-millionare, she would be sucking your

    dick, for lunch , breakfest , dinner.

    good luck .
    Well I think you could very well be right. I'm not

    sure if I agree with number four though as she keeps herself very fit and I've found some women looking better in

    their mid 30's and 40's as I dated 2 older women before.

    Number 7 I totally agree with and she could very well

    be that type, but I could be wrong. No offense to any women here but I can't stand the gold diggers.

    One

    experiment I would love to do if I ever did win the lottery is go to a fancy place with lots of women around who are

    well dressed, go there for a week in sneakers, jeans and a T-shirt maybe even a baseball cap. Hit on every woman I

    could. Then the following week I clean myself up, put on a 3 piece suit, cufflinks, leather shoes, maybe even a

    brief case and hit on every woman there. I'd like to see how many women who rejected me last week, would hit on me

    in my 3 piece suit.




    What I did do today was I saw one gym buddy there who knows the guy she was talking

    to while right beside me. I told him what happened earlier in the week with his other buddy and her while on the

    treadmill.

    This guy says he would talk to the guy on the treadmill she was conversing with about me to see if he

    knows anything that I don't know. That could be the best thing in this case b/c the treadmill guy talks to her

    frequently.

    Thanks all who replied.

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    OH....MY....GOD!!!! This is

    frustrating.

    Let me get this straight - you've:

    - Overhead this chick talking about you (to another GUY,

    no less)
    - Heard her say "he's hot" in reference to you
    - Noticed her gradually move into your personal space

    every time you're in the gym
    - Seen her intentionally put her ass on display by the cable crunch (yes, it WAS

    intentional)
    - Said hello and smiled to each other every time you are there
    - In spite of the fact that you

    AREN'T one of her beta puppy dogs (does she go out of her way to flirt with them?)
    - Had her wink at you
    - Had

    her give you the sexy/shy look (that's a very classic IOI, the way)
    - Seen her checking you at all the time
    - Had

    her look you directly in the eye while checking you out
    - Had her tell you she's free on Friday nights (MASSIVE

    DLV on her part)

    And yet, you are "basically looking for more signs of interest"? WTF?

    It's like, if this

    chick walked up to you, started looking you in the eye with dilated pupils, nervously fidgeting, twirlring her hair,

    stammering over her words, sweating, and said "my, it's rather hot in here", but didn't touch you, you'd

    interpret that as "not interested", like she's really commenting on the air conditioning system or something.



    Let me make this perfectly clear:

    THIS....GIRL....LIKES....YOU.

    What more do you want? Oh, right, SHE has

    to come up to YOU before you'll talk to her, and you won't touch (kino) her until she touches you. Yet, the OTHER

    guys in the gym are acting "beta". Right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigman808
    THis little thing between you and her isn't going

    to go anywhere unless one of you gets fed up or one of you makes a move. And, I'll bet you the bottle of NPA I just

    got that it isn't going to be her.
    Ummm.. YEAHH, I could not agree more with that. It's time to make

    a move. I mean, for Chrissake, you've now had a WOMAN on this thread tell you she's probably thinking the same

    way you are. I completely agree with CulturalBlond's post. One of the best kept secrets in the world, is that

    beautiful women are often approached LESS in DHV (demostration of High Value) situations, than other women, due to

    the intimidation factor.

    Look at this situation objectively: You've already had massive IOI's from

    HBgymhottie, you've really done nothing to make a move, and now you're going to talk yourself out of it, because

    she hasn't literally thrown herself at you, so you conclude she's not intersted. So rather than ask her out,

    where the odds are probably FAR better than 50/50 she'd say yes, instead, you're going to pass up this

    opportunity, and only because of something you've constructed in your head, that doesn't even coincide with

    reality. And what's even worse, this is a RISK-FREE situation. What I mean by that is, what is going to happen if

    she's says "no"? Will you die? Will you lose your gym membership? Will the puppy dogs who fill her water bottle

    laugh at you? Will you then become unattractive to all other women? The answers to the above are no, no, no, no,

    and no.

    You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain here. With due respect, please don't take Chicago's

    advice. It's rather obvious from his posts in this thread that he has had problems in the past with women, and is

    bitter. Really, not all women are like "used cars" or golddiggers or whatever. You're letting yourself get talked

    into quitting, without even having tried in the first place! If you do that, I've got news - the most beta guy in

    that gym is YOU. At least the waterboy AFC's (average frustrated chumps) who have no chance still talk to her.

    You have her attraction, plus Chikara, plus a mastermind group here willing to help you, and yet that's STILL not

    enough. (BTW, the reason I'm being so harsh on you about this, is because I've done similar things myself. And

    come to regret it. I'm trying to spare you that.)

    Again, as above: Attraction->Rapport->Seduction. You HAVE

    attraction. You keep assuming you don't, thus raising her value level above your own - not good. If you approach

    her with that attitude, you'll get blown out. And rightly so. ASSUME you already have her attention, because, if

    your posts are accurate - you do.

    Onto Rapport. Remember, as above, Attraction minus Rapport = LJBF. So, you

    have to establish at least minimum rapport before making your move. Find something she either cares about, or

    something you have in common, and then talk with her about it in a way designed to make her feel good about herself,

    in your presence. Hmmm, if only we could find a common ground in the GYM, hmm... what could it be.....

    Oh,

    wait, I know... MAYBE you could talk to her about working out! Hmmm, what a concept! This is ridiculously easy to

    do. First, find something to compliement her on - anything besides her tits or ass. Maybe her abs. "Hey, I

    noticed your abs have gotten a lot more cut. What's your routine?"

    This accomplishes several things. It lets

    her know: You've been looking. It makes her feel good about herself. It pays her a compliment, but in a very

    non-supplicative way ("not omigod, you are so hot, please date me, omigod) LOL...

    And it gets her TALKING to

    you. Which is what you wanted, right?

    HB: Oh, uh, thanks (flustered by your confidence... and chikara

    ) I do xyz crunches, blah blah blah
    Sig: Yeah, well, you look great (no pause) I just love workin' out, you know?

    Really gets the blood moving. But what I really love is that awesome endorphin rush after a great set, you know?

    (no pause), Like, you just get that whole 'king of the world' feeling going on (shameless Titanic anchor, chicks

    love that scene in that movie), (no pause), like there's nothing in the world you can't do, and everthing you want

    is laid right out before you.... (pause, look away for just a second in "amazement and wonder")
    HB: DDB (Doggy

    Dinner Bowl look, i.e., eating it up )
    Sig: Well, it's been great talking to you, I've gotta get going, got a

    meeting/date/whatevre
    HB: ummm, ok (not wanting you to leave)
    Sig: Hey, listen, you mind if I give you a call

    sometime? Maybe we could grab a cup of coffee sometime, and compare routines or something (delivered with cheshire

    cat smile - let HER imagine what kind of 'routines' you mean. Workout routines? Something else?

    )
    HB: Yes (VISUALIZE THIS MOMENT BEFOREHAND)
    Sig: Cool, what's your #?

    One thing I *will* agree with

    Chigago on, either make a move, or move on...

  27. #27
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    esk6969


    OH....MY....GOD!!!! This is frustrating.

    Let me get this straight - you've:

    - Overhead this chick talking

    about you (to another GUY, no less)
    - Heard her say "he's hot" in reference to you
    - Noticed her gradually move

    into your personal space every time you're in the gym
    - Seen her intentionally put her ass on display by the cable

    crunch (yes, it WAS intentional)
    - Said hello and smiled to each other every time you are there
    - In spite of the

    fact that you AREN'T one of her beta puppy dogs (does she go out of her way to flirt with them?)
    - Had her wink at

    you
    - Had her give you the sexy/shy look (that's a very classic IOI, the way)
    - Seen her checking you at all the

    time
    - Had her look you directly in the eye while checking you out
    - Had her tell you she's free on Friday nights

    (MASSIVE DLV on her part)

    And yet, you are "basically looking for more signs of interest"? WTF?

    It's like,

    if this chick walked up to you, started looking you in the eye with dilated pupils, nervously fidgeting, twirlring

    her hair, stammering over her words, sweating, and said "my, it's rather hot in here", but didn't touch you,

    you'd interpret that as "not interested", like she's really commenting on the air conditioning system or

    something.

    Let me make this perfectly clear:

    THIS....GIRL....LIKES....YOU.

    What more do you want? Oh,

    right, SHE has to come up to YOU before you'll talk to her, and you won't touch (kino) her until she touches you.

    Yet, the OTHER guys in the gym are acting "beta". Right.
    I agree and you would think she is interested in me.

    The thing is when I try to talk to her or joke around with her or to tease her, sometimes she doesn't reply or

    keeps her conversations very brief.

    And she doesn't ask me personal details to know who I am. There have been

    times I've tried to let her know personal details about me after I've asked her something and she doesn't seem

    too interested.

    That's where I'm confused.

    If you were into someone as much as you think she's into me,

    wouldn't you want to know things about the person you're into? That's at least been my personal experience with

    women who were interested in me or that I dated.

    Unlike other girls I tease and joke around with, most others

    respond and tease back. Yet with this one, she doesn't always laugh at jokes that other ppl would. Which I find a

    bit strange.

    Ummm.. YEAHH, I could not agree more with that. It's time to make a move. I mean, for

    Chrissake, you've now had a WOMAN on this thread tell you she's probably thinking the same way you are. I

    completely agree with CulturalBlond's post. One of the best kept secrets in the world, is that beautiful women are

    often approached LESS in DHV (demostration of High Value) situations, than other women, due to the intimidation

    factor.
    Well as I said the first impression she gave me when I first started training there was that she was

    an attention seeking snob (no offense to anyone). And ppl I met that I train there with now told me that she mainly

    looks around at me and other ppl just to see who's checking her out.

    That leads to other confusion.

    And yes

    I agree with you and CulturalBlond's post about attractive women being less approached b/c of intimidation, but I

    don't always understand that as sometimes I always see hotties being hit on and followed around (not what I will

    do).

    Basically I guess I'm just worried that I could be just being played with by her for her amusement to try

    and make me cave and follow her around. If that's the case and I ask her out, I will look like a fool that she

    played me for.

    I agree about making a move, and I want to make a move. On Monday the guy I was training with

    today will talk to the treadmill guy she was talking to me about and see if he knows anything concerning myself and

    her. If he does and it's good, I will probably make a move b/c he knows her and she talks to him a lot.


    Look at this situation objectively: You've already had massive IOI's from HBgymhottie, you've really done nothing

    to make a move, and now you're going to talk yourself out of it, because she hasn't literally thrown herself at

    you, so you conclude she's not intersted. So rather than ask her out, where the odds are probably FAR better than

    50/50 she'd say yes, instead, you're going to pass up this opportunity, and only because of something you've

    constructed in your head, that doesn't even coincide with reality. And what's even worse, this is a RISK-FREE

    situation. What I mean by that is, what is going to happen if she's says "no"? Will you die? Will you lose your gym

    membership? Will the puppy dogs who fill her water bottle laugh at you? Will you then become unattractive to all

    other women? The answers to the above are no, no, no, no, and no.
    Well you basically stated my concerns, but

    of course I won't lose my gym membership. I guess a part of me is also concerned if she says anything to any of the

    other women in the gym if I've totally taken things the wrong way.

    You have nothing to lose, and

    everything to gain here. With due respect, please don't take Chicago's advice. It's rather obvious from his posts

    in this thread that he has had problems in the past with women, and is bitter. Really, not all women are like "used

    cars" or golddiggers or whatever. You're letting yourself get talked into quitting, without even having tried in

    the first place! If you do that, I've got news - the most beta guy in that gym is YOU. At least the waterboy AFC's

    (average frustrated chumps) who have no chance still talk to her. You have her attraction, plus Chikara, plus a

    mastermind group here willing to help you, and yet that's STILL not enough. (BTW, the reason I'm being so harsh on

    you about this, is because I've done similar things myself. And come to regret it. I'm trying to spare you that.)
    I have had some bad experiences with women like all of us and I've moved on and know which ones to pick

    from.

    I agree with you about being harsh and totally understand b/c I'm realizing that I'm missing out on

    experiences in my life that I'd like to look back on and remember.

    Again, as above:

    Attraction->Rapport->Seduction. You HAVE attraction. You keep assuming you don't, thus raising her value level

    above your own - not good. If you approach her with that attitude, you'll get blown out. And rightly so. ASSUME you

    already have her attention, because, if your posts are accurate - you do.

    Onto Rapport. Remember, as above,

    Attraction minus Rapport = LJBF. So, you have to establish at least minimum rapport before making your move. Find

    something she either cares about, or something you have in common, and then talk with her about it in a way designed

    to make her feel good about herself, in your presence. Hmmm, if only we could find a common ground in the GYM,

    hmm... what could it be.....
    I agree with the above statements. Speaking of finding something she cares

    about, well a few weeks ago I asked her about her gym photo shoot I saw being done in the gym about a month ago and

    she was interested in that. She trains 6 days a week, so I know she cares about her body and the gym. But wouldn't

    she get bored talking about that? I'm sure everyone else talks to her about it.

    Oh, wait, I know...

    MAYBE you could talk to her about working out! Hmmm, what a concept! This is ridiculously easy to do. First, find

    something to compliement her on - anything besides her tits or ass. Maybe her abs. "Hey, I noticed your abs have

    gotten a lot more cut. What's your routine?"

    This accomplishes several things. It lets her know: You've been

    looking. It makes her feel good about herself. It pays her a compliment, but in a very non-supplicative way ("not

    omigod, you are so hot, please date me, omigod) LOL...

    And it gets her TALKING to you. Which is what you wanted,

    right?
    When I see her on Monday when the opportunity rises to talk to her I will ask her if she has any

    hobbies and/or what she normally does on the weekend outside the gym and work and elaborate on that which is

    something I've been trying to do but haven't had the opportunity as she was training a client who was a friend of

    hers.


    HB: Oh, uh, thanks (flustered by your confidence... and chikara ) I do xyz crunches,

    blah blah blah
    Sig: Yeah, well, you look great (no pause) I just love workin' out, you know? Really gets the blood

    moving. But what I really love is that awesome endorphin rush after a great set, you know? (no pause), Like, you

    just get that whole 'king of the world' feeling going on (shameless Titanic anchor, chicks love that scene in that

    movie), (no pause), like there's nothing in the world you can't do, and everthing you want is laid right out

    before you.... (pause, look away for just a second in "amazement and wonder")
    HB: DDB (Doggy Dinner Bowl look,

    i.e., eating it up )
    Sig: Well, it's been great talking to you, I've gotta get going, got a

    meeting/date/whatevre
    HB: ummm, ok (not wanting you to leave)
    Sig: Hey, listen, you mind if I give you a call

    sometime? Maybe we could grab a cup of coffee sometime, and compare routines or something (delivered with cheshire

    cat smile - let HER imagine what kind of 'routines' you mean. Workout routines? Something else? )
    HB:

    Yes (VISUALIZE THIS MOMENT BEFOREHAND)
    Sig: Cool, what's your #?

    One thing I *will* agree with Chigago on,

    either make a move, or move on...
    This is exactly the type of conversation I've been wanting and playing

    out.

    The thing is, one of the details that gave me the impression that she could be an attention seeking snob is

    that one day a couple of months ago when she was on the treadmill right next to me, she was talking to another

    guy.

    From the conversation I heard they were confirming plans for dinner and he asked "how will I get in touch

    with you? Could I have your number?" and she replied to him "around here nobody has my number with a smirk on her

    face as she said it".

    So this is why I'm a bit nervous to ask for her number. She lives at home she told me so

    if she does give me her number it will probably be her cell phone number which is fine.


    Here is another

    question I have, could the reason she doesn't talk to me or ask personal details about me b/c she may just want to

    have sex with me and doesn't care to really know me? She does not seem like this type, but I am having a tough time

    figuring out who she really is.


    But I'm going to wait until Monday to see if the treadmill guy she talked

    to about me and said I'm hot to before she winked at me knows anything about the situation between myself and

    her.

    Then I will decide, if he tells me she's interested in me and been waiting for me to make a move than I

    will proceed. If he says other wise like she is just trying to screw with my head than I will be undecided.

  28. #28
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    AHHHHHH! COME ON, MAN! Esk6969

    laid it out more than perfectly for you. I couldn't have done a better job, except for one thing. I'd have put a

    little endnote in the post, saying something along the lines of: 'GET YOUR ASS MOVING!' This situation is actually

    kind of simple, if you think about it. Okay, screw that. It's extremely simple. We have Sig here, who wants to ...

    this girl in the gym, and the girl is acting mysterious, yada yada yada. Now, let's look at the BIG picture here:

    This girl LIKES you. Enough said? Yes.

    Okay, now that you know what to do, and how you can

    do it, what on earth are you going to do? YOU ARE GOING TO GET OFF YOUR LITTLE COMPUTER CHAIR, AND START TALKING TO

    THIS WOMAN! Sorry for being harsh, but you need to get into action, man! The good things in life don't come to you.

    You go out and get them. But, in order to do that, you have to realize that logic isn't always involved in these

    situations. Do what esk suggested: Talk to her, find a common ground, (the gym is picture perfect) and get her

    number. Forget talking to that guy on the treadmill. Find out for yourself whether or not she's up for you. You

    cannot depend on other people to tell you things you should already know. Good luck man, and remember: Don't wait

    for life's positives to pass you by; get your ass up and go get them.

  29. #29
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    T'was much simpler when you

    could club'em side the head, drag'em back to ya cave/bush, and do'em, yes?
    Hit her with a dead fish

    , and get on with it!
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

  30. #30
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    Bigman808



    AHHHHHH! COME ON, MAN! Esk6969 laid it out more than perfectly for you. I couldn't have done a better job, except

    for one thing. I'd have put a little endnote in the post, saying something along the lines of: 'GET YOUR ASS

    MOVING!' This situation is actually kind of simple, if you think about it. Okay, screw that. It's extremely

    simple. We have Sig here, who wants to ... this girl in the gym, and the girl is acting mysterious, yada yada yada.

    Now, let's look at the BIG picture here: This girl LIKES you. Enough said? Yes.

    Okay, now

    that you know what to do, and how you can do it, what on earth are you going to do? YOU ARE GOING TO GET OFF YOUR

    LITTLE COMPUTER CHAIR, AND START TALKING TO THIS WOMAN! Sorry for being harsh, but you need to get into action, man!

    The good things in life don't come to you. You go out and get them. But, in order to do that, you have to realize

    that logic isn't always involved in these situations. Do what esk suggested: Talk to her, find a common ground,

    (the gym is picture perfect) and get her number. Forget talking to that guy on the treadmill. Find out for yourself

    whether or not she's up for you. You cannot depend on other people to tell you things you should already know. Good

    luck man, and remember: Don't wait for life's positives to pass you by; get your ass up and go get them.

    I totally agree with you guys.

    Just the thing is, now this is the confusing part. As I said sometimes she is a

    bit cold with me when I talk to her. Now if she is interested in me in fact, wouldn't she be a little more

    reseptive to my invitation for my conversation?
    Sometimes when I try to find things out about her and her

    interests, she makes it very difficult. You'd think being on the treadmill right next to me, she'd want to talk.



    But again when I try, she doesn't always respond well or she's very brief. Sometimes if I ask her if she

    likes something she will either just nod her head or just say yes or no and go on with her treadmill instead of

    elaborating on it.

    That's where I'm just confused. Most other women I've spoken to would be interested in a

    conversation even and they'd ask me questions. This is the level of interaction that I'm having trouble reaching

    with her b/c of how she is with me.

    I know for a fact that if my gym buddy talks to the treadmill guy and says

    I'm interested and wanted to know her status, it will get back to her so she will know that I'm interested.



    Although I don't follow her around like a puppy dog, I still have shown my interest like "ATTEMPTING" to start up

    a conversation with her. This is the problem I'm currently having. Getting her to be more reseptive when speaking

    to her. I know she isn't shy.

    For me to get the nerve to ask out a woman, especially a very attractive woman I

    usually need to have a few pleasant conversations with her where we exchange personal information so we learn more

    about eachother.

    Once this level of interaction is reached, I don't usually have a problem asking out an

    attractive woman. But if I don't get to that level, I won't make my move as there's not much common ground.




    Do you think it's possible she just wants to have sex with me and she doesn't care to know who I am? Is that

    why she's not interested in personal conversation outside the gym/work?

    I won't be seeing her until Monday

    anyway as she doesn't train on Sunday and either do I. Anyway I'm going out with a couple of buddies so I'm about

    to apply some Chikara before I leave.

    MOBLEYC57

    I hope you're joking as that's not my style. I like

    someone to be concious that I'm with.

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