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  1. #61
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    visit-red-300x50PNG
    to clarify, the term 'nice

    guy' used in the context i was referring to refer to the negative qualities of being too nice and thus what coined

    the phrase "nice guys finish last". Im not saying being nice wont get you women, what im saying is, if you are able

    to attract a lot of women and yet youre still a very nice guy, then you basically bagged the positives of being nice

    without the negatives and thus being nice becomes lost in translation and thus combined with all of your other

    positive attributes to make you attractive and women will never refer to you as a nice guy even though you maybe

    nice. So what im saying is, essentially, youve accomplished mutating the "nice guy" qualities into something that

    allows you to attract women. However, the blurry boundary of where being a nice guy becomes a bad thing is when you

    become described as a nice guy. In society, generally speaking, women will never describe the men they are attracted

    to as nice, even if they are nice, they will be described in another manner. Ive noticed that women who use the

    phrase "nice guy" to describe a guy usually are not attracted to that guy. Thus, the phrase nice guy i think is

    unconsciously being associated in that negative manner.

  2. #62
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    2 types of nice guy

    Those

    that are excessively nice - whimps, walkovers, put up with a lot of female cr@p

    Then you have guys that are

    "nice" in a respectful way to women but dont put up with a lot of their crap - youre straightforward with them -

    dont play most of hteir games unless you have a reason to. Etc you can still be respectful without being a

    walkover.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by satyrboy
    I hope I

    don't offend anyone too badly with this, but if you ever want a giggle go to the no more mr nice guy forum.



    C'mon, where did all this melodramatic people come from?!

    I don't think the issue with that site and its

    acolytes has anything to do with "nice." More like abscence of self esteem, self respect, and quite possibly the

    developement of a new species: Homo invertebrus.
    Those same people have been called "nice guys" their whole

    lives. I've been called a "nice guy" my whole life, so I think I know what the hell I'm talking about. This

    difference in definition is why women say they want "nice guys" but never seem to get them. The reason: women are

    saying they want nice guys according to Wood Elf's definition, but the people they actually call nice guys

    fit my definition. That's why guys say women are liars...because they see the men that women call nice guys (my

    definition), act like them, get called nice guys, and are never successful with women because the definitions

    aren't the same.

    I've seen this trend on personals sites. Women are catching on to the fact that the

    definitions differ. How so? I've seen the new types of personal ads: "I want a nice guy...but he has to be

    self-confident and assertive." In other words, they are finally beginning to realize that the guys they call nice

    guys are not what they want...because every guy who has been called a "nice guy" his whole life fits the

    description in NMMNG.

    So, I'll say it again for emphasis...people should quit using the term "nice guy" to mean

    a desirable man. It's taken on a life of its own to mean exactly the kind of guy that is not desirable: a guy who

    will do anything to please and therefore nice to everyone thinking that will make him happy in life.

    Just like a

    person can be a "girl" and a "friend" and not be a "girlfriend", a person can be "nice" and a "guy" but not a "nice

    guy"...a girl that's a friend is not necessarily a girlfriend, and a guy that's nice is not necessarily a nice

    guy...

    That's why nice guys finish last. They're not talking about men who are nice; they're talking about

    the very same people satyrboy calls "homo invertebrus". You can laugh and say, "That's not what a nice guy is," but

    maybe you're just learning for the first time what it actually means [to people].

    Case in

    Point


    http://pherolibrary.com/forum/showthread.ph

    p?t=13521
    Last edited by Pancho1188; 04-02-2005 at 08:23 AM. Reason: Added Case Study; changed "women should quit using the term 'nice guy'..." to refer to all people

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pancho1188
    Very true. I

    think it's kind of like a spectrum:

    <----------------------------->
    Nice Guy___Real Man___Jackass

    Pancho, the above chart should be required for all men who wish to date, and have success with women. You've

    summed it up perfectly.

  5. #65
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    Pancho,

    You have the

    differentation correct, I think. But you seem to be trying to back into the solution. Most women seem to understand

    the difference, maybe it's instinctual. As demonstrated by Sayrboy, Gegogi and myself, some men already understand

    the term and most probably could learn what it means. Let's follow the easiest path and teach young men the

    difference. Do you really believe you can get the female half of this world to change what they seem to think works?

    That sounds like an exercise in futility to me.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth
    Pancho,



    You have the differentation correct, I think. But you seem to be trying to back into the solution. Most women seem

    to understand the difference, maybe it's instinctual. As demonstrated by Sayrboy, Gegogi and myself, some men

    already understand the term and most probably could learn what it means. Let's follow the easiest path and teach

    young men the difference. Do you really believe you can get the female half of this world to change what they seem

    to think works? That sounds like an exercise in futility to me.
    You're absolutely right.

    That's why I used the term "Real Man". Why? Women already use it... "I want a real man." That's what they

    want, alright... I'm just trying to prevent millions of fights every year between girls that say they

    want nice guys and the guys that are the shoulder they cry on saying, "...but I'm a nice guy. If I'm what you say

    you want, why won't you go out with me?" In other words, I'm doing a public service!

    So you're

    saying to teach men the difference instead of teaching women? Well, maybe we can just teach everyone at the same

    time. I recant my erroneous comment that implied to only educate women.

  7. #67
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    The guys who whine "but I'm a

    nice guy" usually aren't. What is their reasoning? "Gee, I'll be nice to her and that will get me laid, heheheh!"

    Not really admirable. Could it be that at some deep down level women recognize that and are repulsed? At least the

    jackass has the inherent honesty of admitting he wants to get laid and that's why he is acting so. The us against

    them they display is still bad but has some merit in honesty.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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    Talking It doesnt work when you're obviously trying to manipulate the outcome

    People are so damn excessively complicated in the first place, men and

    women... there were time when I was going nuts over a girl that I wanted to, well, jeeez, come to think of it I

    wasn't exactly clear in my mind what I wanted, mindless sex, meaningful association, walking around looking at

    consumer products ? Emotions would blow hot and cold, the next day the idea of hooking up with her didn't register

    a 1 on my Richter scale... maybe we could smoke a joint or eat a couple of mushrooms and have more profound mindless

    sex, and that could be kinda cool too even if we found ourselves both confused about where this thing was headed, or

    the self protecting anti-grav field goes up and out of nowhere we absolutely cannot, cannot have a discussion about

    anything,
    or on the other hand she's 1000% into me and I'm 50% into her or I'm 1000% into her and she's 50%

    into me, then as I get to know her better I'm 60% into her and she's 75% into me.... was she ovulating that night

    at the Blind Tiger and recently broke up with her last boyfriend and needs to blow out the memory of him with a

    couple of nights with crazy sex but she wants to watch Extreme Makeovers all them time which I couldn't care less

    about or she talks to her mom 3 times a day on her cell wherever the hell she happens to be when I want to watch

    Hitler and Stalin on the History Channel or I try diplomatically to her that she need to, uhh, you know, without me

    feeling her teeth and maybe I could buy her some, ahhh, instructional videos and she brings it to my attention that

    I have a bad habit or three that could use some attention.....

  9. #69
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    I get a feeling much of what I'm

    seeing here is a matter of semantics. We're not all working with the same dictionary or some published reference

    (the authors of which may have put their own spin or interpretation on a term). Many of us use terms we've picked

    up from our own local circles of friends/contacts/etc. and they could well differ from one place or group to

    another.

    Pancho188's author may be using the term "nice guy" in a negative light (and perhaps for the sake of

    his book), while wood elf and Gegogi may personally see the term in a more positive light because that's the way

    *they've* always used it. Similar: some people I know have used the term "jock" in a complimentary way, while

    others consider it an insult.

    Personally when I think of someone being a "nice guy" I follow wood elf's and

    Gegogi's thoughts. I suppose if I had ever read No More Mr. Nice Guy I would be aware of the alternate useage of

    the term based on the listed criterea in Pancho's post (which I'd also tend to call "spinless wuss/coward" like

    Geogi said).

    Please be aware I'm not dissing any of you. Just pointing out that everyone's "pool of

    references" can be different. Terminology can differ, and can cause no end to confusion. I've been in many a

    situation where arguments clear up or at least ease after someone has the wisdom to clarify the participant's

    definitions and settles on shared/common meanings (at least common to the participants at that time and place).

    Maybe we need to step back a moment and do that here.

    (Uh oh, maybe I'm being too much of a Nice Guy...)

    Last edited by Rbt; 04-02-2005 at 03:18 PM. Reason: correct typos and add a smilie...

  10. #70
    Kodachrome Forever! Gegogi's Avatar
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    RBT you are a nice guy and a

    diplomat. But, yes, I think you are 100% correct. We're all fairly close in terms of underlying principles, but the

    labels are messed up. I prefer a dictionary for my definitions and reject attempts by subcultures--youth, ethnic

    groups, fuckenfast.com, whatever--to redefine common words and phrases. Remember a couple decades ago when Black

    folks used "bad" to mean good? How about substance abuse? The universe is full of substances. Call them a drunk or a

    drug addict! Communication is difficult enough without needless confusion. A spade should be called a spade, and a

    spinless coward should be called a spinless coward, not a nice guy!
    "I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gegogi
    I prefer a

    dictionary for my definitions and reject attempts by subcultures--youth, ethnic groups, fuckenfast.com, whatever--to

    redefine common words and phrases. Remember a couple decades ago when Black folks used "bad" to mean good? How about

    substance abuse? The universe is full of substances. Call them a drunk or a drug addict! Communication is difficult

    enough without needless confusion. A spade should be called a spade, and a spinless coward should be called a

    spinless coward, not a nice guy!
    <nodding in agreement>

    Nicely put.

    I can barely

    stomach the liberties taken with language these days.
    If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen

    Holmes' Theme Song

  12. #72
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    <Emphatically nodding head>



    Agreed! I feel the same as you two.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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    For the sake of the discussion,

    here is something that DeAngelo has to say on the topic of the "nice" guy. Some of you might find it interesting.



    I have a lot of guys write me to say "I know this
    girl who's beautiful and smart and attractive. She
    and I

    are great friends, we have everything in common,
    and we get along perfectly... but she says that she's
    just not

    attracted to me..."

    Have you ever noticed that:

    1) The most attractive and interesting women seem
    to be

    attracted to men who don't treat them very well?

    2) That the "nicer" you are to a woman the more she
    often

    seems to act like "just a friend" to you?

    What's going on here? Didn't mom say to be "nice"
    to girls?



    Here's the deal: Women aren't usually romantically
    attracted to "nice" guys. Women are attracted to men
    who

    are funny, confident, and mysterious. Good looks
    don't hurt, but if you're not 6'4" tall and model-handsome,


    then you have to learn how to attract women with your
    personality.

    And being "nice" isn't going to do it

    for you.

    Awhile back, I mentioned an interesting book that
    was written about the band "Motley Crue".

    Remember
    those guys?

    Well, the book is called "The Dirt: Confessions
    of the Worlds Most Notorious Rock

    Band." As I read
    through that book, I realized that these guys have
    dated more of the world's most attractive

    women than
    anyone (except maybe Hugh Hefner).

    In case you didn't know, the guys in Motley Crue
    are not

    very "nice". They're famous for taking every
    drug known to man, beating their women, fighting, and
    having a lot

    of people die around them.

    Now, the first thing most guys say is "Yea, but
    they're rich and famous..."



    And this is true, they are rich and famous. But,
    and it's a BIG ONE... all of the women that they have
    dated,

    married, and beaten up are ALSO RICH AND FAMOUS
    TOO!

    These are supermodels and playmates of the year
    and

    such. These women can date whoever they want.
    Tommy Lee was MARRIED to both Heather Locklear AND
    Pamela

    Anderson... remember?

    These women didn't need Tommy Lee for his money
    or his fame... they're dating these

    guys for some
    OTHER REASON!

    Are you with me on this?

    So what's going on here? And more importantly,


    how can you use this information to be more successful
    with women and dating?

    First of all, don't go out

    and start taking drugs
    and beating up your dates. I mean, I know that an
    occasional woman will drive a man to

    drink, but I don't
    recommend going "Motley Crue" on a girl... lol.

    The first chapter of my book "Double

    Your Dating"
    is called "Women Don't Make Sense". Here's what I
    mean...

    I believe:

    1) Women make

    decisions very, very quickly about whether
    a man is going to be "just a friend" or if he has
    romantic potential,

    and once her decision is made,
    it's probably going to stay made.

    2) These decisions are made "unconsciously",

    meaning
    that women make all of them quickly and at a "gut
    level".

    3) If you know how, you make her feel

    attraction feelings
    rather than "friend" feelings.

    4) The way to do it is to stop acting "nice" and start


    acting, well... something else... and I don't mean
    "not nice".

    So what DOES attract women? And how do you

    do it
    exactly?

    Good questions...

    At the beginning, I mentioned three qualities:
    Funny, Confident, and

    Mysterious.

    Before I talk about each, I first have to remind
    you that WOMEN DON'T USUALLY MAKE SENSE.

    Remember
    that.

    Here's a good metaphor: Remember when you learned
    to drive? It all made sense... turn the

    wheel left
    and go left, turn it right and go right...

    But do you remember when you learned to back

    up?
    Backing up is a whole new game. Everything that used
    to work now works in a different way. At first you


    feel disoriented. Turn the wheel left and go right...
    and you have to learn how to maneuver with the back


    wheels staying straight while the front wheels turn...
    all with your head turned around.

    For most

    people, this takes some time and practice.
    But once you "get it" then you can do it anytime you
    want.

    Well,

    women are very similar. At first it's very
    confusing. You have to try things that don't seem
    to make sense. But

    once you get the hang of it, then
    you see how it works and can make it work... just
    like backing up a car.



    As much as many women would hate to admit it, there's
    something very attractive about a man who is just a
    little

    more confident than he should be. And if you
    combine this with the right amount of humor, you have
    a magic

    combination that will charm almost any woman.

    Here are a few ways to use this idea:

    1) When you first meet

    a woman, tease her about something.
    It doesn't matter what it is, as long as you do it early on.
    For instance,

    you might say: "So what's with the big
    purse? Are you carrying a gun in there?" or maybe "Those
    are some pretty

    tall shoes, what are you like 4' tall
    without them?" If you tease a woman, it shows that
    you're not

    intimidated by her, and that you have a fun
    sense of humor. Key: Make sure you say something FUNNY.
    If you

    don't know how to be funny, get a book on it.
    The test: If she's not laughing, then it wasn't funny!

    2) Look

    around at other things and seem kind of pre-occupied
    when you first start talking to her. Make your funny


    remarks with a carefree, detached tone. You want to
    sound like you're talking to your best friend. Attractive


    women are approached all the time. It's not attractive
    to a woman when you look like you've just met Madonna.


    This "just a little too confident" attitude is very
    attractive to women... especially when it's combined
    with

    humor.

    3) Don't answer her questions directly. Women love
    to ask questions like: "What do you do?" and "Where


    do you live?" and "Tell me about your family". Answer
    with funny answers, and don't give her what she wants.


    Most guys say "Oh, I'm an engineer" or "I'm a stock
    broker". BORING,BORING. If she asks what you do, say


    "Oh, funny you should ask. I'm a Calvin Klein Underwear
    Model... What do you do?..." (This is especially funny


    if it's OBVIOUS that you are NOT a model) Do you get
    it? Keep it up and keep her laughing.

    It's important

    to remember that I'm not telling
    you to be mean, or to be a jerk to women. I'm telling
    you to start being

    confident, funny, and mysterious.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    <nodding in

    agreement>

    Nicely put.

    I can barely stomach the liberties taken with language these days.
    Don't

    be hatin', dawg! You just jealous of the pimp juice I got from my bling bling and all the sweet action I get from

    the shawties in the hizzle fishizzle...


    That said, it's not a made-up term or anything. It's not a result

    of popular culture or the author of the book. The term "nice guys finish last" didn't just come out of nowhere.

    If nice guys really meant what Gegogi, Wood Elf, and others say (and I agree that it's true that a nice guy can be

    just that, but when talking about the people it's actually used to describe, a nice guy is a guy who tries to

    please everyone), then that phrase wouldn't have become common words of wisdom (How old is that, anyway? It's not

    like it was just made yesterday...). The fact is that people started it as soon as they call people "nice guys" and

    at the same time had these guys wonder why they couldn't get women. After all, everyone calls them "nice guys",

    and women say they want nice guys. It's not fair that now you know the problems with these guys to call them

    cowards and say it's stupid to call them nice guys. Why? Because most people walking around don't know that

    these people are like that, and---guess what---they call them nice guys...I didn't make up the term...the

    guy who wrote that book didn't make it up...it's just what everyone calls them. I'm sure the first words that

    come out of a person's mouth when asked to describe Bel, G, etc. would not be "He's a nice guy." It would

    probably be, "He's a strong-willed, assertive person who's kind to others......." you get my drift. However, if

    someone tried to describe any of the people the book describes, and I use myself as an example because it has

    happened countless times, it's, "He's a nice guy." For example, when you get into those mushy moments where you

    say how great everybody is and go on and on about all the fun times you had, I would be the guy you'd go to and

    say, "And Pancho...you're just such a nice guy!" I've never had anyone call me a spineless coward...although

    maybe that's what I am.


    The author just asked himself, "Why aren't these guys satisfied and why don't

    women like these guys when everyone calls them nice guys?" Everyone called him a nice guy, too. He found the

    reasons, then he wrote them down. Then he found out they were really passive-aggressive men who have been trained

    their whole lives to disown their masculinity, and so he wrote a book about it.


    Oh, the hell with it. No one

    who takes the words "nice" and "guy" at face value rather than actual usage in social relationships is going to just

    go, "Well, Pancho, you're right." Don't take my word for it. Watch the movie The Mask (although I'm sure

    many have already seen it). It's a movie about---whodathunkit---a "nice guy" who actually writes an article called

    "Nice Guys Finish Last" in the movie. He won't stand up for himself to his boss, he won't do anything to advance

    his life in any way, but he's a hell of a nice guy (and I believe people tell him that in the movie). He then

    finds the mask and becomes a "jerk". Then, he finds out that he doesn't need the mask to become a real man, and

    *poof* he makes the transition from "nice guy" to "jerk" to "real man" all in one movie. Hell, whoever wrote that

    script was a genius regarding the male psyche. I'm not sure how many times the term "spineless coward" was used to

    describe him, but you probably got that feeling while following him through his daily life.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by DumLuc
    For the sake of the

    discussion, here is something that DeAngelo has to say on the topic of the "nice" guy. Some of you might find it

    interesting.

    I have a lot of guys write me to say "I know this
    girl who's beautiful and smart and attractive.

    She
    and I are great friends, we have everything in common,
    and we get along perfectly... but she says that

    she's
    just not attracted to me..."

    Have you ever noticed that:

    1) The most attractive and interesting

    women seem
    to be attracted to men who don't treat them very well?

    2) That the "nicer" you are to a woman the

    more she
    often seems to act like "just a friend" to you?

    What's going on here? Didn't mom say to be "nice"


    to girls?

    Here's the deal: Women aren't usually romantically
    attracted to "nice" guys. Women are attracted

    to men
    who are funny, confident, and mysterious. Good looks
    don't hurt, but if you're not 6'4" tall and

    model-handsome,
    then you have to learn how to attract women with your
    personality.

    And being "nice" isn't

    going to do it for you.

    Awhile back, I mentioned an interesting book that
    was written about the band "Motley

    Crue". Remember
    those guys?

    Well, the book is called "The Dirt: Confessions
    of the Worlds Most Notorious

    Rock Band." As I read
    through that book, I realized that these guys have
    dated more of the world's most

    attractive women than
    anyone (except maybe Hugh Hefner).

    In case you didn't know, the guys in Motley Crue


    are not very "nice". They're famous for taking every
    drug known to man, beating their women, fighting, and


    having a lot of people die around them.

    Now, the first thing most guys say is "Yea, but
    they're rich and

    famous..."

    And this is true, they are rich and famous. But,
    and it's a BIG ONE... all of the women that they

    have
    dated, married, and beaten up are ALSO RICH AND FAMOUS
    TOO!

    These are supermodels and playmates of the

    year
    and such. These women can date whoever they want.
    Tommy Lee was MARRIED to both Heather Locklear AND


    Pamela Anderson... remember?

    These women didn't need Tommy Lee for his money
    or his fame... they're dating

    these guys for some
    OTHER REASON!

    Are you with me on this?

    So what's going on here? And more importantly,


    how can you use this information to be more successful
    with women and dating?

    First of all, don't go out

    and start taking drugs
    and beating up your dates. I mean, I know that an
    occasional woman will drive a man to

    drink, but I don't
    recommend going "Motley Crue" on a girl... lol.

    The first chapter of my book "Double Your

    Dating"
    is called "Women Don't Make Sense". Here's what I
    mean...

    I believe:

    1) Women make decisions

    very, very quickly about whether
    a man is going to be "just a friend" or if he has
    romantic potential, and once

    her decision is made,
    it's probably going to stay made.

    2) These decisions are made "unconsciously", meaning


    that women make all of them quickly and at a "gut
    level".

    3) If you know how, you make her feel attraction

    feelings
    rather than "friend" feelings.

    4) The way to do it is to stop acting "nice" and start
    acting,

    well... something else... and I don't mean
    "not nice".

    So what DOES attract women? And how do you do

    it
    exactly?

    Good questions...

    At the beginning, I mentioned three qualities:
    Funny, Confident, and

    Mysterious.

    Before I talk about each, I first have to remind
    you that WOMEN DON'T USUALLY MAKE SENSE.

    Remember
    that.

    Here's a good metaphor: Remember when you learned
    to drive? It all made sense... turn the

    wheel left
    and go left, turn it right and go right...

    But do you remember when you learned to back up?
    Backing

    up is a whole new game. Everything that used
    to work now works in a different way. At first you
    feel

    disoriented. Turn the wheel left and go right...
    and you have to learn how to maneuver with the back
    wheels

    staying straight while the front wheels turn...
    all with your head turned around.

    For most people, this takes

    some time and practice.
    But once you "get it" then you can do it anytime you
    want.

    Well, women are very

    similar. At first it's very
    confusing. You have to try things that don't seem
    to make sense. But once you get

    the hang of it, then
    you see how it works and can make it work... just
    like backing up a car.

    As much as

    many women would hate to admit it, there's
    something very attractive about a man who is just a
    little more

    confident than he should be. And if you
    combine this with the right amount of humor, you have
    a magic

    combination that will charm almost any woman.

    Here are a few ways to use this idea:

    1) When you first meet a

    woman, tease her about something.
    It doesn't matter what it is, as long as you do it early on.
    For instance, you

    might say: "So what's with the big
    purse? Are you carrying a gun in there?" or maybe "Those
    are some pretty

    tall shoes, what are you like 4' tall
    without them?" If you tease a woman, it shows that
    you're not

    intimidated by her, and that you have a fun
    sense of humor. Key: Make sure you say something FUNNY.
    If you

    don't know how to be funny, get a book on it.
    The test: If she's not laughing, then it wasn't funny!

    2)

    Look around at other things and seem kind of pre-occupied
    when you first start talking to her. Make your funny


    remarks with a carefree, detached tone. You want to
    sound like you're talking to your best friend. Attractive


    women are approached all the time. It's not attractive
    to a woman when you look like you've just met Madonna.


    This "just a little too confident" attitude is very
    attractive to women... especially when it's combined
    with

    humor.

    3) Don't answer her questions directly. Women love
    to ask questions like: "What do you do?" and "Where


    do you live?" and "Tell me about your family". Answer
    with funny answers, and don't give her what she wants.


    Most guys say "Oh, I'm an engineer" or "I'm a stock
    broker". BORING,BORING. If she asks what you do, say


    "Oh, funny you should ask. I'm a Calvin Klein Underwear
    Model... What do you do?..." (This is especially funny


    if it's OBVIOUS that you are NOT a model) Do you get
    it? Keep it up and keep her laughing.

    It's important

    to remember that I'm not telling
    you to be mean, or to be a jerk to women. I'm telling
    you to start being

    confident, funny, and mysterious.
    i come from a family with cousins and sisters that are 8, 9's and same for

    their friends. i personally know what they do to nice guys. last year my cousin said yeah to this guy to for the

    prom and he paid for everything only for her to tell him she's busy. just for entertainment value. i was standing

    in line to get into a bar with some friends a few days ago. and one of my friends, a 9.5, did a "why are you talking

    to me" because some cook from the bar came out and tried to talk to her.

    the seduction community is geared

    towards the 8s, 9s, and 10s. so the information you get is skewed towards the supermodel in vip. you need social

    intelligence. the game playing doesn't have to be as hard on a 7 or so.

    it's not about being a complete jerk

    either though. i do alot of nice guy things. i would say it's a combination of both is the ideal person.

  16. #76
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    You still make the mistake in

    defining the nice guy as a pushover. They aren't nice guys, they are wimps. But any woman who would pull a stunt

    like that clearly is a bitch. That's disgusting.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  17. #77
    Bad Motha Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth
    But any woman who

    would pull a stunt like that clearly is a bitch. That's disgusting.
    That was my first thought. Who

    needs it?
    If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen

    Holmes' Theme Song

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    That was my

    first thought. Who needs it?
    Yeah, I would plot revenge. There would have to be a way to embarrass that

    woman in front of the whole school or something...

    ...so much for me being a nice guy...

    ...enter

    Russell Crowe: "On my signal, unleash hell."

    ...or I'd just cry after dropping so much money and then

    get over it...

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by seduceme
    Listen,

    just cause she's eager to give you her phone number DOESNT MEAN SHE WANTS YOU! Some women do enjoy the validation

    of being 'chased' by alot of guys. She set the trap, you fell into it. You shouldnt even have volunteered your

    phone# by saying you'll give her an SMS, keep HER hanging if you'll call her or not. Too validated and she wont be

    interested in you.
    __________________________________________________ _______________

    Calling

    someone to have lunch once or sending sombody your number because a person stated they would is hardly falling into

    any type of trap.

    If that is the case I guess nobody could ever go ahead and make the first move right? So

    there should really be nobody ever calling anyone in fear of falling into the "trap".

    Now if he called her

    again three days in a row that might look a little desperate on his part.

    You did the right thing. You were

    a man and did what you said you were gonna do. Women do this fucking thing ALL the time and it is really imature. I

    would say give it a week and try her cell phone again and don't mention you called her and didn't recieve a

    response. Be casual about it.

    Happy

  20. #80
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    Wink YO! Some people are ASSHOLES!!!!!

    The downside of being physically attractive, unusually physically attractive, or double trouble, rich and unsually

    physically attractive is that the world cuts them slack... look, this sucks, but pretty people get away with

    behaviors that average people don't. It isn't fair, that's how it works though. The flip side of this is that the

    beautiful people don't get tested every day they way the ugli people do. Non-beautifuls have to work harder, put on

    some serious coping skills muscle, learn to deal with rejection, know what it means to empathize. Beautifuls have to

    cope with another load of shit... I know from this one having been in a relationship with an extremely beautiful...

    traffic stopping beautiful woman, gen-u-wine supermodel grade girl... guys lose their self control, they get

    celebrity nutty, it's like temporary madness, this fantasy object of their dreams right before their eyes, all

    their resentments and hungers and strange stuff that went on during their potty training phase, and all the babes

    that rejected them and all the playboy centerfolds, every wet dream and lonely boner swirling around in their

    skulls, other women get vengefully spiteful, step on their toes, deliberately crash into them, do anything to take

    them down a notch, writhing in their non-supermodel less-fuckable maybe green card but not platinum card seething

    envy...
    Beauty is a weird place, it sets you above and everybody seems to be gunning for you at the same time.

    Think of what the women are enduring, every "funny and cocky" shithead lout slobbering over her with lines she's

    heard maybe 2000 times before, creepy older guys affecting sublime sugar daddy attitudes...
    It's perverse,

    isn't it... you have the opportunity to see the human race at its most needful, egotistic, hormone revved, not to

    speak of radically selfish, your perfect flesh will make me whole, Omigod baby your glorious tits your perfect skin

    the soft blond down hair on your exquisite taut but rounded belly will flush away my imperfection yes goddess take

    me in your hand like a lump of coal and crush me into a diamond be the ty-d-bol blue cleansing liquid in the foul

    toilet of my existence... yes, baby, that's it, come sit on poppa's face we'll drive the amalfi coast in my

    ferrrari we will and kanoodle with eurotrash on the greek islands and wear minks and have our faces done by the same

    guy who did Liz Taylor and snort pharmaceutical grade cocaine and attend opening night.....
    And all this time

    you really wanted a tuna sandwich.

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfs_up
    we'll drive the

    amalfi coast
    Amalfi coast ... One of the most beautiful sights I have ever seen in my life!! A

    voman vould be pleased to sit your face and view such a sight!!
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

  22. #82
    Bad Motha Holmes's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by surfs_up
    The downside of

    being physically attractive, unusually physically attractive, or double trouble, rich and unsually physically

    attractive is that the world cuts them slack... look, this sucks, but pretty people get away with behaviors that

    average people don't. It isn't fair, that's how it works though. The flip side of this is that the beautiful

    people don't get tested every day they way the ugli people do. Non-beautifuls have to work harder, put on some

    serious coping skills muscle, learn to deal with rejection, know what it means to empathize. Beautifuls have to cope

    with another load of shit... I know from this one having been in a relationship with an extremely beautiful...

    traffic stopping beautiful woman, gen-u-wine supermodel grade girl... guys lose their self control, they get

    celebrity nutty, it's like temporary madness, this fantasy object of their dreams right before their eyes, all

    their resentments and hungers and strange stuff that went on during their potty training phase, and all the babes

    that rejected them and all the playboy centerfolds, every wet dream and lonely boner swirling around in their

    skulls, other women get vengefully spiteful, step on their toes, deliberately crash into them, do anything to take

    them down a notch, writhing in their non-supermodel less-fuckable maybe green card but not platinum card seething

    envy...
    Beauty is a weird place, it sets you above and everybody seems to be gunning for you at the same time.

    Think of what the women are enduring, every "funny and cocky" shithead lout slobbering over her with lines she's

    heard maybe 2000 times before, creepy older guys affecting sublime sugar daddy attitudes...
    It's perverse,

    isn't it... you have the opportunity to see the human race at its most needful, egotistic, hormone revved, not to

    speak of radically selfish, your perfect flesh will make me whole, Omigod baby your glorious tits your perfect skin

    the soft blond down hair on your exquisite taut but rounded belly will flush away my imperfection yes goddess take

    me in your hand like a lump of coal and crush me into a diamond be the ty-d-bol blue cleansing liquid in the foul

    toilet of my existence... yes, baby, that's it, come sit on poppa's face we'll drive the amalfi coast in my

    ferrrari we will and kanoodle with eurotrash on the greek islands and wear minks and have our faces done by the same

    guy who did Liz Taylor and snort pharmaceutical grade cocaine and attend opening night.....
    And all this time

    you really wanted a tuna sandwich.
    Uh...I'll have what he's having.
    If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen

    Holmes' Theme Song

  23. #83
    Kodachrome Forever! Gegogi's Avatar
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    "the seduction community

    is geared towards the 8s, 9s, and 10s. so the information you get is skewed towards the supermodel in vip. you need

    social intelligence. the game playing doesn't have to be as hard on a 7 or so."
    I've dated many

    8-10 women. Heck, I was even married to one. They're just like everyone else when it comes to cruelty or game

    playing. "Some they do and some they don't." My last GF was a major bitch, a working model and actress and married

    to a guy twice her age (not me!). Her head was too huge it got stuck in the door. She understood the power she

    possessed and used it to her advantage. However, in my experience, most attractive women aren't like that. Some are

    genuinely nice girls: loving, kind and considerate. One of them told me guys often avoid her because she was too

    attractive. I've dated several attractive women who were resentful of special male attention due to their

    attractiveness. They constantly tried to prove they were as smart, fast, aggressive or talented as any man. Sheesh,

    if I beat one of them at tennis she'd be pissed for days.

    The thought of a "seduction community" is

    hilarious. I picture a red light district on Love Island...
    "I'm just a dirty hornytoad" -Gegogi

  24. #84
    Bad Motha Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gegogi
    The thought of a

    "seduction community" is hilarious. I picture a red light district on Love Island...
    Closer to the

    truth is Fire Island.
    If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen

    Holmes' Theme Song

  25. #85
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    Uh...I'll have

    what he's having.
    Make that a double for me.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  26. #86
    Phero Pro NaughtieGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth
    Unmitigated

    hogwash!

    You still make the mistake of confusing a nice guy with a placating wimp. You can be nice, still be

    an alpha and still have good results with attractive women.
    I left a "nice guy" because he was also a

    "wuss". I like a strong alpha male. But... with that power that I am willing to give to him comes the responsibility

    of kindness and respect towards me. If I ever feel there is no respect towards me (and everything that that entails)

    I WILL walk.

  27. #87
    Man of La Pancha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    Closer to the

    truth is Fire Island.
    I think you mean Temptation Island.

  28. #88
    Full Member wood elf's Avatar
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    Naughty Girl:

    We look for

    the same in a man. Someone who can be strong and protect me and who is gentle at the same time. He needs a will and

    life of his own and never changes his mind just because he thinks I want him too. There are many more things, that

    is just a part of it.

    You are strong willed too?

  29. #89
    Man of La Pancha
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    Quote Originally Posted by wood elf
    Naughty

    Girl:

    We look for the same in a man. Someone who can be strong and protect me and who is gentle at the same

    time. He needs a will and life of his own and never changes his mind just because he thinks I want him too. There

    are many more things, that is just a part of it.

    You are strong willed too?
    Yeah, you and every other

    woman on earth. While we're at it, I'd like to say that I'm looking for an attractive, confident woman with a

    good sense of humor and who's very comfortable with her sexuality...

    I'm also a guy who loves going out but

    has no problem staying in and watching a good movie.

    My horoscope says that a big opportunity lies ahead, and I

    have a choice to make on which way to go.

  30. #90
    Full Member wood elf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pancho1188
    Yeah, you and

    every other woman on earth. While we're at it, I'd like to say that I'm looking for an attractive, confident

    woman with a good sense of humor and who's very comfortable with her sexuality...

    I'm also a guy who loves

    going out but has no problem staying in and watching a good movie.

    My horoscope says that a big opportunity lies

    ahead, and I have a choice to make on which way to go.
    Yes, but I have found him My man is

    gentle and loving. I have watched him many times at the dojo, he can protect me! He is mostly like Naughty wrote

    about a wolf.

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