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  1. #1
    Relaxed seduceme's Avatar
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    Default The truth about women.

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    ----------------------------------------
    Note that I didn't write this article. It strikes me as being rather

    shallow in that the only thing the guy wants to do is get laid. There are actually some guys out there who are more

    interested in meaningful relationships than just one-night-stand sex. But, the article also contains a number of

    interesting & uncomfortable truths. And that's why it's

    here.
    ------------------------------------------


    Subject: How to get laid like a Rock Star
    Date: 14

    Nov 2003 09:59:18 -0800
    From: theduderino420@hotmail.com (The Duderino)
    Newsgroups:

    alt.support.shyness + (massive cross-posting)

    === The truth about women revealed ===

    I wasn't a

    sexist before I understood women. There was a time when I was blissfully ignorant. I grew up watching Disney

    cartoons, I believed in romance and "true love conquers all" etc. I wanted to find a woman who could be my equal, my

    partner. I believed in finding that one true love and being committed to each other forever. You know, like in the

    marriage vows, "for better or for worse, through sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer" etc. And I

    believed that women basically wanted the same thing. Now I understand that this was only possible when society was

    structured to enforce it. Now that women are "liberated" (and thus at the mercy of their own emotions and baser

    instincts) this is mostly no longer possible in today's society. Victorian society, or many Arab societies, are

    examples of how society used to be structured to keep women as faithful as possible.

    I'd like to point out

    that I am not a misogynist...I love women. But I AM a sexist, in the sense that I believe women are vastly different

    than men and, according to the standards that men hold for other men, women are inferior as well.

    I must be a

    bitter loser, right? In fact, I enjoy more success with women than most of the men in this city. I have slept with

    over 200 women in my life. I am sleeping with 5 different women right now. They are all normal, healthy,

    well-adjusted, good-looking (8+ on the looks scale) professional women. (At least as normal and healthy and

    well-adjusted as women can be - most women have issues.) But that's not all. I can go out any night of the week and

    pick up a woman. I can pick her up in front of all her friends (with 80% efficiency for each approach.) Women will

    slip me their phone number when their boyfriend is in the bathroom. I can talk to women on the street or in the

    grocery store and within 30 minutes, I can usually have sex with them right there in my car or get them back to my

    place. If I have to settle for a phone number, and I meet her on another day, assuming she doesn't flake, I WILL

    fuck her that next day.

    Let me point out right now that my Modus Operandi doesn't change in the slightest if

    she single or if she has a boyfriend or husband. I just do my normal routine and I fuck her. Sometimes she brings up

    the boyfriend so she won't feel guilty when I fuck her because now it's "my fault." Sometimes she hides it from me

    until after I've fucked her, then she admits it. I can't tell you how many times I've been laying next to some

    chick, all sweaty cause I just finished busting a nut all over her face or in her mouth or on her back, and suddenly

    her phone rings and she's on the phone with her man, giving him some bullshit story. This is with NO GUILT

    WHATSOEVER!!! The sweetest most innocent girls you ever laid eyes on, will cheat at the drop of a HAT. The one thing

    that most men value most - loyalty - is just not there with women. Women don't think in terms of honor, women

    don't say "word is bond;" women are basically emotionally driven. If they feel it, they do it, period. Then they

    rationalize it to themselves later. Nothing is more meaningful, or compelling, to a woman than (1) the way she feels

    and (2) learning more about her own inner self and having emotional realizations. That's why women love astrology,

    chick flicks, soap operas, stupid Cosmo quizes that supposedly reveal info about yourself, etc.

    I must be

    really good looking, right? NOPE. My looks are marginal; I'm maybe a 7. I don't work out (though I'm not fat or

    anything.) In fact I didn't have any success with women until I was in my early 20's. That's when I decided to go

    out a lot and start trying to get laid... I was willing to face rejection a thousand times a night, and do it over

    and over, trying everything, until I got it right. I had to completely set my ego aside. I didn't get laid at all

    for the first few months. Then every now and then. Then pretty often. Then downright consistently! I'm in my early

    30's now and I am basically a sexual god. I wouldn't have even believed this were possible when I was in high

    school. The ONLY factor that determined whether a woman would cheat was my own skill level. When my skills were

    poor, women shit all over me. (Everyone knows how women think they have license to be rude bitches in social

    situations... in fact I understand and appreciate that behavior now.) But once my skills got good, I could fuck just

    about anyone's wife or girlfriend. And many times I didn't know they had a man until after I fucked

    them.

    Look, I'm not saying that men are perfect, or whatever. Far from it. I'm just saying, I've spent a

    lot of my time studying women and interacting with them, and I know how they are. In fact, sometimes I hate knowing

    it. Sometimes I wish I had taken the blue pill, and never went down the rabbit hole, because now there's really no

    going back. I didn't want to believe these things... but how could I ever get married now? How could I ever be the

    chump who pays for everything and blissfully goes through life not worrying about his woman because he trusts her?

    Look, would you leave your dog alone with a steak? You can't hate the dog for doing what's in its nature. You

    can't trust a dog, BUT you can trust a dog to BE a dog. Some men are disloyal... but I could *never* trust a woman

    to be loyal. Some men are bad presidents...but I could *never* vote for a woman to be president. I can rarely expect

    a woman to regard her own promises as more important and compelling to her than the emotions she feels in the

    moment. She will rationalize it to herself later.

    Here's an interesting fact. Did you know that the median

    22 year old woman has TWICE as much sex as the median 22 year old man? You might ask, how is that possible? If a

    woman's having sex, doesn't that mean a man is having sex at the same time? And thus, shouldn't men be having

    just as much sex as women? NO...because most men hardly get laid, or if they do, it's because they "got lucky." But

    a small group of men get laid ALL THE TIME, and fuck LOTS AND LOTS of women! It's evolution at work. Women follow

    their emotions, and that leads them to sleep with men like me (who know how to control female emotions.) Women want

    the top man...so the top man fucks lots of women. That's right - the sexual revolution, feminism, etc has resulted

    in a return to harems. Women, at the mercy of their own emotions, are volunteering for the modern-day equivalent of

    harems. Lucky for me!! Heh.

    You might say, "But...but...I'm so nice! I'm a nice guy!" Guess what? That's

    like a fat chick saying, "But I'm so smart!" As if those things have anything in the world to do with sexual

    attraction!

    I'm going to give some tips here for the poor sucker guys who are posting online trying to get

    laid and who are spending hundreds / thousands of dollars on all those whores out there without getting any play.

    (You bitches know exactly what you're doing, and I'm on to your game!)

    * Don't be sexually judgemental in

    any way. A woman's worst fear is to be perceived as a slut. She will suck your toes and take it in the ass if she

    thinks you don't view her poorly for it (and she knows her friends won't find out.)

    * Don't get angry at

    her. Women know they have emotional outbursts and they need to trust that you can handle that. It's ok (and

    necessary) to occasionally put your foot down...just make sure she knows you are fully in control of

    yourself.

    * Don't let her manipulate you or control you in any way. She will immediately lose all respect

    for you. Always be leading. It's just like dancing - women hate a man who can't lead.

    * When first

    approaching a woman or a group, they tend to get a feeling like this is just your little scheme to get close to

    them, when you really just want something from them - like sex. (And they're right.) It's important to structure

    your body language and conversation so that they honestly don't believe you want something from them. They should

    feel like you are about to leave at any second.

    * DON'T TRY TO IMPRESS HER IN ANY WAY. Don't show off.

    Don't talk about accomplishments or possessions. As soon as she perceives that you are trying to prove yourself to

    her, she loses all interest.

    * Don't ignore her friends. A woman values her friend's opinions more than

    just about anything else in the world. Nothing matters to her more than what other women are thinking. Give her

    friends lots of attention and get everyone laughing. If one woman is feeling different than the others, she will

    drag them away. They will follow like a flock of pigeons. Society is the book of women. (Notice that men do NOT

    behave this way! Women are very different!)

    * To get a woman attracted / emotionally vulnerable, give her

    lots of emotions and feelings. Don't just make her feel good. Make her feel good, and angry, and sad, and

    connected, and astonished, and intrigued, etc. Make her laugh. Tease her. Tell stories about your sick puppy. Tell

    her why things would never work out between the two of you. Call her a dork. If she gets heated up, she will start

    touching you...playfully push her away. If she calls you a jerk and punches your arm, you are doing it right. If she

    gives you that "I can't believe you just said that" look, do NOT back down, do not say "Oh I'm just kidding" or

    anything like that.

    * As she gets more emotional, she will try to ruin things by throwing in logic. She will

    ask you if you are a player, or if you say this to all the girls, or whatever. The trick is this: Don't take it

    seriously by giving it some logical answer! That's right...women lose interest if you take them seriously!!! It's

    crazy but that's how they behave. Just blow it off or misinterpret what she's saying as though she is coming on to

    you. If you fail these tests, she will be gone so fast your head will spin.

    * She will start asking you lots

    of questions. This is what chicks do when they suddenly find themselves attracted to a man they know nothing about.

    This is your chance to open up a little and also find out more about her and build a deeper connection. You have to

    do this, or she will flake later (even if you've kissed her!) Women are the worst flakes in the world! Don't make

    it too easy for her, make her work for it a bit. Then talk about connections and childhood memories and things you

    have in common, etc. She needs to feel that this is genuine. This is usually the time when I throw in a few fake

    vulnerabilities, like pretending I'm shy or insecure about something. I know it's fucked up but women need to see

    that there are at least a few small holes where they can sink their hooks in you. They get uneasy if you are too

    perfect.

    * Make sure she gets the feeling that you have standards and that you are judging her based on them.

    Ask her questions that show her you are checking her out to see if she is up to snuff. Women don't like to feel

    like you are with them only because you can't do any better. They prefer to feel like you have high standards; you

    can get any chick you want, but you chose HER because she is SOOOO special and SOOOO different from all the others.

    Yeah, I know.

    * Move her to different locations. Take her next door for a drink. Take her across the street

    to check out some art. The more locations the better.

    * Take responsibility for every escalation. A woman

    will do just about anything as long as she doesn't have to feel like it was "her fault." Make it YOUR fault. Make

    it "just happen." She will rationalize it to herself later using the same bullshit generator that women use to flake

    out on dates at the last minute. Don't get her horny until you get her isolated. Believe me, emotional is better

    than horny.

    * Keep the woman always swinging somewhere between validation and rejection. If she feels

    rejected, she drops out or gets REALLY MAD. And if she feels too validated, she will ditch you in a heartbeat. So

    push her away (emotionally) and then pull her back in.

    * BELIEVE YOUR OWN BULLSHIT. Chicks do not look at

    your excuses and try to see if they are bullshit or not... because that is the logical thing to do, and chicks are

    not logical. Rather, what they do is see if YOU seem to believe your own bullshit when you say it. If you look like

    you do, then chances are, they will believe it too. So the key is to believe your own bullshit, and other aspects

    about yourself that you want the chick to believe about you too (alpha male..whatever)... because your own self

    beliefs for some reason will automatically 'impart' to the chick!

    * One more thing...many guys make the

    mistake of listening to female romantic advice. Don't listen to them, THEY DON'T KNOW WTF THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT,

    and they WILL steer you wrong. They will tell you what they THINK they want, instead of what they actually RESPOND

    to. And furthermore, a large part of the female sexual experience IS the inability to admit these things BECAUSE

    they derive sexual pleasure from putting up resistance and being overwhelmed.

    If you do things this way,

    after a few months practice you WILL get laid like a rock star. The guys who get laid are the ones who know what

    they are doing, because they have practiced on lots of women. Ironically, women are most attracted to the men who

    are most likely to fuck them and then dump them on their ass - because those are precisely the men who have so many

    other options because they practice on lots of women. That's why you always hear women bitching about how men are

    assholes that only want to fuck them and dump them - because those are the men that they gravitate to.

    Women

    tend to wise up when they get towards their 30s, and they start looking for a nice wimpy beta male to settle down

    with and pay for all their shit. As they get older, they will get more and more desperate to find this guy. Once

    they do, they will cheat on him with an exciting fun guy like me. (But who wants to fuck some old chick in her

    30's? That's what beta males are for! Heh)

    Hey, don't blame me - I didn't make things the way they are. I

    was just a guy who wanted to get laid. And I do :-)

  2. #2
    Phero Enthusiast ManBeast's Avatar
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    Yes... being emotionally

    manipulative WILL get you laid... but it will NOT find you "that special someone." I also believe that there truly

    are people out there who can't comprehend cheating on their significant other. While I understand what this guy is

    getting at... it is also very very bitter.

    MB
    "You are a sick f*ck, but I wouldn't have you any other way. "
    ~Becca

  3. #3
    Phero Enthusiast silksand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seduceme
    ----------------------------------------
    There are actually some guys out there who are more

    interested in meaningful relationships than just one-night-stand sex.
    So actually our time might be

    more profitably spent learning more about THIS topic - I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, seduceme.



    Maybe we should do a poll, and see how many of us here currently are after one-night-stands versus something

    more...

  4. #4
    Man of La Pancha
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    Men like this tend to show the

    way to get women in a bad way. Like I always say, a situation is the same no matter how you perceive it. If you

    just lost your job, you can see it as a loss or an opportunity to get a better job. Either way, the situation is

    the same. The same is with this guy, and I'll interpret his negativity to what anyone would accept as good

    advice:

    * Don't be sexually judgemental in any way.

    Don't be judgemental, period. No one likes to

    be judged...this is a no-brainer.

    * Don't get angry at her.

    Women like confident men who don't get

    rattled easily. There's nothing wrong with that. It has nothing to do with women being prone to "emotional

    outbursts". It's a matter of self-discipline and strength.

    * Don't let her manipulate you or control you in

    any way.


    More like, be your own person. How long does the fun of playing a video game last when you used

    the cheat code to become invincible? If you already know you've won, why keep playing? This aspect is the hardest

    for agreeable people because some people are just laid-back, go-with-the-flow types. You can have both,

    though.

    * When first approaching a woman or a group, they tend to get a feeling like this is just your little

    scheme to get close to them, when you really just want something from them - like sex. (And they're right.) It's

    important to structure your body language and conversation so that they honestly don't believe you want something

    from them. They should feel like you are about to leave at any second.

    Ummm...this guy is off. They really

    do think you're just talking to them to get something from them or to get close to them. Either way, would you

    rather talk to someone who is just being friendly or someone who has already thought about having sex with you and

    will make up whatever to get there? Friendly discussions, where you're just talking but would be perfectly content

    if you had to leave at any moment, are less threatening and more comfortable. If you bust into a conversation with

    a full frontal offensive, what do you think will happen? Yeah, that's what I thought...

    * DON'T TRY TO

    IMPRESS HER IN ANY WAY.


    More like: get over yourself! You're there to get to know her and share your

    knowledge where relevant. Anyone who forces their greatness into a conversation is trying too hard. It's not very

    attractive to flaunt yourself like that.

    * Don't ignore her friends.

    I just covered this in the body

    language question. If you come out with a full offensive on her, she'll put up her defense...when you are friendly

    to everyone, you look good, show politeness for not ignoring anyone else, and relieve the pressure of the one-on-one

    interrogation. Plus, if you show you can get along with her friends, you show that you can get along with her.

    It's not that far-fetched.

    * To get a woman attracted / emotionally vulnerable, give her lots of emotions and

    feelings. Don't just make her feel good. Make her feel good, and angry, and sad, and connected, and astonished, and

    intrigued, etc. Make her laugh. Tease her. Tell stories about your sick puppy. Tell her why things would never work

    out between the two of you. Call her a dork.


    This is a manipulative move. First of all, to intentionally

    stir emotions is confusing to someone, because people associate feeling emotions for someone with having feelings

    for someone. You're getting a rise out of her, and so she notices that she cares. The other thing is that by

    putting her down, you're making her self-conscious. When people are self-conscious, they are so worried about

    themselves and feel vulnerable that they fall victim to the show of strength you are putting on for them. You could

    just as easily stir happy, funny, compassionate, intimate feelings by utilizing other means.

    * As she gets

    more emotional, she will try to ruin things by throwing in logic. She will ask you if you are a player, or if you

    say this to all the girls, or whatever. The trick is this: Don't take it seriously by giving it some logical

    answer! That's right...women lose interest if you take them seriously!!! It's crazy but that's how they behave.

    Just blow it off or misinterpret what she's saying as though she is coming on to you. If you fail these tests, she

    will be gone so fast your head will spin.


    If she says something like this, she probably is flirting with

    you. Hello...if you get all serious or logical, that's misinterpreting it...People ask questions

    they don't want real answers to all of the time, like, "Does this make me look fat?" "Do you want the last piece?"

    or "What would you do if I shaved my head?" There's nothing crazy about it. The person obviously just wants

    reassurance because they're loaded questions. In fact, maybe they're asking these questions because they're so

    vulnerable and insecure after you just insulted them from your previous tip. Seriously, though, this guy

    misinterpreted it the first time, not the second.

    * She will start asking you lots of questions. This is what

    chicks do when they suddenly find themselves attracted to a man they know nothing about. This is your chance to open

    up a little and also find out more about her and build a deeper connection. You have to do this, or she will flake

    later (even if you've kissed her!) Women are the worst flakes in the world! Don't make it too easy for her, make

    her work for it a bit. Then talk about connections and childhood memories and things you have in common, etc. She

    needs to feel that this is genuine. This is usually the time when I throw in a few fake vulnerabilities, like

    pretending I'm shy or insecure about something. I know it's fucked up but women need to see that there are at

    least a few small holes where they can sink their hooks in you. They get uneasy if you are too perfect.

    ...or

    you could just be yourself and be honest. That works, too. Normal people ask questions about potential mates.

    Normal people look for connections and similarities. Normal people look for a way to relate because that's how

    they become emotionally attached. You could lie about yourself or you could tell the truth and it would lead to the

    same result.

    * Make sure she gets the feeling that you have standards and that you are judging her based on

    them. Ask her questions that show her you are checking her out to see if she is up to snuff. Women don't like to

    feel like you are with them only because you can't do any better. They prefer to feel like you have high standards;

    you can get any chick you want, but you chose HER because she is SOOOO special and SOOOO different from all the

    others. Yeah, I know.

    Everyone wants to feel special. This guy obviously thinks that the ability to get

    women makes him special, yet he makes fun of women for thinking that the ability to be hit on by an eligible

    bachelor makes them special. Nobody wants to feel like they're not important for more than just one thing, and

    nobody wants to think that they could be replaced with another attractive girl and the person they were talking to

    would even notice. It's called caring. Having standards shows self-esteem and self-respect, other attractive

    qualities.

    * Move her to different locations. Take her next door for a drink. Take her across the street to

    check out some art. The more locations the better.

    New and interesting shows that you can bring her new

    experiences. People like that in general. Hell, I would love it if a woman did that for me. I like new

    things.

    * Take responsibility for every escalation. A woman will do just about anything as long as she

    doesn't have to feel like it was "her fault."

    Taking responsibility for your actions is always a good idea.

    Placing the blame on others makes you look cowardly. Show that you stand by your actions, and you look

    attractive.

    * Keep the woman always swinging somewhere between validation and rejection.

    You don't

    have to turn her into a human pendulum. Like I said before, if she feels like she's already won, she'll lose

    interest. If you push her away, she'll keep going in the direction you pushed her: in the opposite direction.

    It's not rocket science, and it doesn't make anyone irrational. It's normal to enjoy the "first date" feeling

    where you don't know what's going to happen but look forward to finding out.

    * BELIEVE YOUR OWN BULLSHIT.

    Chicks do not look at your excuses and try to see if they are bullshit or not... because that is the logical thing

    to do, and chicks are not logical.

    Ummm...or you could just be honest, and then you wouldn't have to believe

    a lie because you'd be believing the truth. If you're congruent (body language with what you're saying), that's

    attractive. I like how this guy makes a conscious effort to be deceptive when it is not required. Women are not

    irrational, people just read body language to see if you're being honest because it's impolite to call someone you

    don't know out on what they're saying. If you can either be honest or lie and look like you're being honest,

    you'll make it. Apparently, we know which decision this guy made.

    * One more thing...many guys make the

    mistake of listening to female romantic advice. Don't listen to them, THEY DON'T KNOW WTF THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT,

    and they WILL steer you wrong.

    Could you tell me what you wanted and have it really work? I don't think so.

    You could say, "I just want someone to screw," but you wouldn't be happy with just that. If some girl got in

    front of you and just gave it up, you would quickly realize that you want more than that, too. Whether you want the

    challenge, more intimacy, dinner and a movie first...whatever. The point is that you couldn't say what you wanted,

    so how do you expect them to? Everyone thinks they want to hit the lottery, but many lottery winners declare

    bankruptcy and are generally less happy than everyone else. So, I say again...what you want and what you say you

    want are always going to be different. It's not isolated to women not knowing what they're talking about.

  5. #5
    Man of La Pancha
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    Quote Originally Posted by silksand
    So actually

    our time might be more profitably spent learning more about THIS topic - I'd love to hear your thoughts on this,

    seduceme.

    Maybe we should do a poll, and see how many of us here currently are after one-night-stands versus

    something more...
    To answer your question, silksand, my above post was meant to show you that the ways for

    getting both of those things are the same; it's how you look at them that's different. Confidence, developing an

    emotional connection, etc. all can get you either a one-night stand or a relationship. The only different for a

    woman, I believe, is that attractiveness and perceived performance ability in the sack may carry more weight in the

    decision-making process for a one-night stand whereas connection and social compatibility may carry more weight in

    the long-term relationship hunt.

  6. #6
    Bad Motha Holmes's Avatar
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    I prefer the bludgeon 'n' drag

    method myself.
    If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen

    Holmes' Theme Song

  7. #7
    Phero Enthusiast silksand's Avatar
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    Pancho, you've done an artful

    job of extracting the useful truths from this fellow's game plan, and turning them to humanistic ends. Your ability

    (and even more, your desire) to do this demonstrates your generous and resourceful spirit.

    When I first read

    this, I was struck by the hatefulness of the writer and the smallness of his world. All of it is true - within the

    hardcore gamester's bar scene and those who inhabit it. Quite likely he will continue to dwell there and meet more

    of the kinds of women who will reinforce his worldview ... and how long will it be before this becomes unbearably

    boring for him? What kind of feelings is HE having while he manipulates his way into bed? I hear in his words his

    disdain and contempt for his targets ... how long can a man keep his soul intact in such circumstances, with such

    beliefs about the human beings he is obviously deeply dependent on to provide the sensations he craves?

    The

    second thought I had about this piece is how much it reminds me of some racist bashboards I've come across. It's a

    sad fact that some of us need to dehumanize others to feel better about ourselves - the twist here is that this guy

    may hate 'em, but he sure can't leave 'em alone.

  8. #8
    & Double Naught Spy InternationalPlayboy's Avatar
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    Silksand, I wanted

    to comment on the OP, but couldn't put my thoughts into words. Sitting there slack jawed, all I could get out was

    "misogynist." Not only did you say it better than I ever could, I also "ditto" your reply to Pancho.

  9. #9
    Man of La Pancha
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    This man obviously feels like

    a fraud. He turned an inferiority complex (not getting any) into a superiority complex (getting a lot and bragging

    about it), but his feelings inside remain the same. He does not feel that women will love him for who he is, so he

    chooses to use his seduction method as a weapon to punish women who normally would have rejected him. Notice that

    he writes this method in a bitter way, writing as if one must manipulate women to get them to have sex with him.

    Instead of becoming the person, he assumes the role of that person as long as it gets him what he wants. Then, he

    probably feels lonely and isolated afterwards when he's alone again, so he goes out trying to get more.

    It's

    sad, really...I hope one day he can make the switch from his description to something closer to mine so he learns to

    appreciate that he can do that and be himself and, therefore, become happy with himself and his relationship with

    women.

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    My husband is a rock musician

    and I asked him to read this piece; I wanted his take on it. He got only a little way into it before losing

    interest, and he told me a story about guys like this. When he was a young guitar player around Austin, he used to

    hang with an older rocker who tried to "mentor" him in the game. He once tried a very mild version of it (just

    acting cool and remote watching a game at the bar, basically; not his usual MO) and he noticed that it DID in fact

    drive a certain young lady crazy - a tall lanky blonde who looked like she came from Minnesota - in other words, a

    "10" in his eyes, though back in the stone age they must've called them something else. He kept it up awhile and

    she was all over him, just as described. He got a kick out of it, but didn't decide to adopt that as his new

    persona. He observed, though, that the guys who acted according to the above gameplan (that's right, it's old as

    the hills) *did* get lots of drunk bar babes. But when one of those chicks happened to bring a friend who wasn't

    into the bars, a REAL girl, you could say, she'd see right through that playa business and it wasn't on AT all.

    Man, he said, it would make those guys nuts.

    So really - what you catch depends on what kind of bait you're

    using. Duderino prefers shallow playa-bitch bait, and hey, it's working for him! Long may he thrive, and in states

    with forgiving statutory rape laws!

    You know, structurally he's trying to be smart. He's trying to do the

    NLP thing of closely observing "excellence" and then modeling his behavior on those he perceives to be fantastically

    successful at doing what he wants to do. Nothing wrong with NLP in the least - it's an amazing therapeutic tool.

    He's just not aiming very high at all, and he's just as lost in his neurosis as those "wimpy" guys he so

    disdains.

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    "Duderino" Isn't that the

    guy from Welcome Back Kotter?

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    Duderino is a reference to

    The Big Lebowski, a cult classic and one of the funniest movies of all time just because of how simple and

    weird it is (and the great cast/acting).

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    Quote Originally Posted by silksand
    So actually our

    time might be more profitably spent learning more about THIS topic - I'd love to hear your thoughts on this,

    seduceme.

    Maybe we should do a poll, and see how many of us here currently are after one-night-stands versus

    something more...

    Im after MLTRs(multiple-long-term-relationships).
    Oh and perfecting my

    seduction/socialskills(yes it IS a skill) for monetary reasons(I hope to someday tutor other guys).

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    Quote Originally Posted by silksand
    My husband is a

    rock musician and I asked him to read this piece; I wanted his take on it. He got only a little way into it before

    losing interest, and he told me a story about guys like this. When he was a young guitar player around Austin, he

    used to hang with an older rocker who tried to "mentor" him in the game. He once tried a very mild version of it

    (just acting cool and remote watching a game at the bar, basically; not his usual MO) and he noticed that it DID in

    fact drive a certain young lady crazy - a tall lanky blonde who looked like she came from Minnesota - in other

    words, a "10" in his eyes, though back in the stone age they must've called them something else. He kept it up

    awhile and she was all over him, just as described. He got a kick out of it, but didn't decide to adopt that as his

    new persona. He observed, though, that the guys who acted according to the above gameplan (that's right, it's old

    as the hills) *did* get lots of drunk bar babes. But when one of those chicks happened to bring a friend who wasn't

    into the bars, a REAL girl, you could say, she'd see right through that playa business and it wasn't on AT all.

    Man, he said, it would make those guys nuts.

    So really - what you catch depends on what kind of bait you're

    using. Duderino prefers shallow playa-bitch bait, and hey, it's working for him! Long may he thrive, and in states

    with forgiving statutory rape laws!

    You know, structurally he's trying to be smart. He's trying to do the

    NLP thing of closely observing "excellence" and then modeling his behavior on those he perceives to be fantastically

    successful at doing what he wants to do. Nothing wrong with NLP in the least - it's an amazing therapeutic tool.

    He's just not aiming very high at all, and he's just as lost in his neurosis as those "wimpy" guys he so

    disdains.

    Hmm, interesting observation.
    All I can add from my experiences is that what I call

    'the asshole rockstar' attitude instinctually creates attraction in women from _ALL_ walks of life. Meaning its

    effective in a club enviroment on young partychicks, its effective in businessenviroment on sophisticated aristocrat

    types, its effective in retailstores on middleaged married women etc etc. Arousal isnt a choice. However different

    women have different values throughout their life, perhaps one girl is looking for a guy to marry her and provide

    for her, thus donald trump may be more suitable than a broke rockstar(or someone imitating). This does NOT mean she

    feels more aroused to donald. Sort of like when a guy see's a well curved hot looking babe, he gets aroused but if

    she's a hooker she's only good for one night. Get it? And if he isnt looking for a hooker doesnt mean he gets any

    less of a boner.

    To add my experiences tell me that in a club enviroment you have the barskanks, the

    partychicks and the sophisticated "I only go out once a year because of my friends and I dont even drink" type.

    Direct approach works wonders on the first two, indirect and rapportbuilding works wonders on the latter. Indirect

    and rapportbuilding usually takes alot more time and effort however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pancho1188
    Don't be

    judgemental, period. No one likes to be judged...this is a no-brainer.
    Youre missing his point,

    i'd rephrase it to 'display that youre secretive and nonjudgemental when it comes to sex'. Basically making HER

    comfortable sexually with you. But yes nonjudgemental is a good lifephilosophy to strive for, but everybody IS

    judgemental to some extent. And no i dont mean as in being a racist , I mean as in forming assumptions about other

    people instantly based on visual stimuli, something EVERYBODY does.



    * DON'T TRY TO

    IMPRESS HER IN ANY WAY.


    More like: get over yourself! You're there to get to know her and share your

    knowledge where relevant. Anyone who forces their greatness into a conversation is trying too hard. It's not very

    attractive to flaunt yourself like that.
    More like dont qualify yourself for her. The person who

    is qualifying themselves are inferior to the other person(who becomes superior). This is applicable to any form of

    social interaction. Perfect example, a job-interview. The interviewer asks all the questions, the employee-to-be is

    the one qualifying him/herself massively. It comes down to the qualifying person volunteering information about

    themselves, thus giving the superior person informational-power. It goes without saying however to reveal

    information about yourself to the same level of depth is just good socialcompetence, it creates rapport and

    connection. Another way to view it is that youre trying to be liked by 'impressing' the other person, as youre

    worried youre not already liked, meaning youre insecure!

    Ahwell, maybe im spending too much time by the

    socialpsychology bookshelf(<-- look im qualifying myself )


    If she says something like

    this, she probably is flirting with you. Hello...if you get all serious or logical, that's misinterpreting

    it...People ask questions they don't want real answers to all of the time, like, "Does this make me look fat?" "Do

    you want the last piece?" or "What would you do if I shaved my head?" There's nothing crazy about it. The person

    obviously just wants reassurance because they're loaded questions. In fact, maybe they're asking these questions

    because they're so vulnerable and insecure after you just insulted them from your previous tip. Seriously, though,

    this guy misinterpreted it the first time, not the second.
    Agreed, its a sign of interest. She

    wouldnt ask this to any random guy or 'friend'. She is however trying to observe what kind of reaction you'll

    have. This is where a guy could say "oh no no no.." and then qualify himself. Will it confirm and even raise her

    suspicions? yep. Personally I usually just buy into it and make it absurd, "hell yeah im a [whatever she says] why

    would I otherwise be saying/doing that?" "oh yes im such a naughty boy, im just saying that to get you into bed". In

    a sense that IS to not take them seriously. But it also displays self-irony and that you dont really care what they

    think or what the outcome will be, KILLING their suspicions.

    * She will start asking you lots

    of questions. This is what chicks do when they suddenly find themselves attracted to a man they know nothing about.

    This is your chance to open up a little and also find out more about her and build a deeper connection. You have to

    do this, or she will flake later (even if you've kissed her!) Women are the worst flakes in the world! Don't make

    it too easy for her, make her work for it a bit. Then talk about connections and childhood memories and things you

    have in common, etc. She needs to feel that this is genuine. This is usually the time when I throw in a few fake

    vulnerabilities, like pretending I'm shy or insecure about something. I know it's fucked up but women need to see

    that there are at least a few small holes where they can sink their hooks in you. They get uneasy if you are too

    perfect.

    ...or you could just be yourself and be honest. That works, too. Normal people ask questions

    about potential mates. Normal people look for connections and similarities. Normal people look for a way to relate

    because that's how they become emotionally attached. You could lie about yourself or you could tell the truth and

    it would lead to the same result.
    Actually she's seeking rapport. So you need to calibrate your

    answers. To be yourself will ONLY help you connect with girls who TRULY are on the same level as you with same type

    of persona and interests. People feel most comfortable with themselves, thus being around people who are like

    oneself are the people you/they'll feel most comfortable with/around. Basic principle in the field of hypnosis.



    * Make sure she gets the feeling that you have standards and that you are judging her based on

    them. Ask her questions that show her you are checking her out to see if she is up to snuff. Women don't like to

    feel like you are with them only because you can't do any better. They prefer to feel like you have high standards;

    you can get any chick you want, but you chose HER because she is SOOOO special and SOOOO different from all the

    others. Yeah, I know.

    Everyone wants to feel special. This guy obviously thinks that the ability to get

    women makes him special, yet he makes fun of women for thinking that the ability to be hit on by an eligible

    bachelor makes them special. Nobody wants to feel like they're not important for more than just one thing, and

    nobody wants to think that they could be replaced with another attractive girl and the person they were talking to

    would even notice. It's called caring. Having standards shows self-esteem and self-respect, other attractive

    qualities.
    Actually this part confuses me, probably because he isnt on a low enough level. This

    ties into qualification, make her qualify herself for you(by having standards) and then validating her for the

    standards she meets. Sort of rewarding her for good behavior or traits she carries. I'd say this is most useful for

    screening out psycho-chicks. Sure you might display self-esteem and self-respect as you say, but to me its more

    important to find out what she is about so you wont wake up one morning with a chick completely nuts trashing your

    place with an axe.

    * Move her to different locations. Take her next door for a drink. Take her

    across the street to check out some art. The more locations the better.

    New and interesting shows that

    you can bring her new experiences. People like that in general. Hell, I would love it if a woman did that for me.

    I like new things.
    Aswell as physically leading her, this is applicable in microscale, moving her

    around in a club for example. "lets go sit in a booth I cant hear you the music is loud", "lets go dance" "lets go

    get a drink at the bar" etc.

    * Take responsibility for every escalation. A woman will do just

    about anything as long as she doesn't have to feel like it was "her fault."

    Taking responsibility for

    your actions is always a good idea. Placing the blame on others makes you look cowardly. Show that you stand by

    your actions, and you look attractive.
    Youre talking about two completely different things. He

    means that you should 'make the moves'. Not expect her to make any since she wouldnt want to take resposibility

    for them as she fears her ego will be hurt. Simply cause she would be percieved as 'slutty' or 'easy to get' ,

    atleast thats how she percieves it.

    * Keep the woman always swinging somewhere between

    validation and rejection.

    You don't have to turn her into a human pendulum. Like I said before, if she

    feels like she's already won, she'll lose interest. If you push her away, she'll keep going in the direction you

    pushed her: in the opposite direction. It's not rocket science, and it doesn't make anyone irrational. It's

    normal to enjoy the "first date" feeling where you don't know what's going to happen but look forward to finding

    out.
    But then you ARE swinging her between validation and rejection. Youre not really making any

    sense here. Youre not validating her enough to lose interest, nor are you pushing her away enough to make her lose

    interest.

    * BELIEVE YOUR OWN BULLSHIT. Chicks do not look at your excuses and try to see if

    they are bullshit or not... because that is the logical thing to do, and chicks are not

    logical.

    Ummm...or you could just be honest, and then you wouldn't have to believe a lie because you'd

    be believing the truth. If you're congruent (body language with what you're saying), that's attractive. I like

    how this guy makes a conscious effort to be deceptive when it is not required. Women are not irrational, people

    just read body language to see if you're being honest because it's impolite to call someone you don't know out on

    what they're saying. If you can either be honest or lie and look like you're being honest, you'll make it.

    Apparently, we know which decision this guy made.
    Women in westernsociety _are_ more socially

    intelligent than men. Maybe because women are more oriented in other human beings and relationships. This book will

    describe it in more detail;
    Sex Differences in Human Communication; Barbara Westbrook Eakins

    ISBN:

    0395255104

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    Quote Originally Posted by seduceme
    Corrections
    Thanks for the clarifications on my thoughts.

    Remember that I was

    just proving that the guy has the right idea but just has a skewed perspective as to how he looks at what he does.

    He talks as if he is scamming women, when really he is just using good social skills out of spite for women who used

    to reject him and for himself for not being able to get women before. Therefore, my interpretations didn't always

    line up (e.g. he says take responsibility for escalating sexual interaction with a hint that women somehow feel

    guilty for doing so if they feel they initiated it---I assume he's referring to cheating, whereas I say take

    responsibility for all of your actions because it makes you a quality human being and therefore attractive...because

    eventually that will apply to the bedroom where you take responsibility for making moves and the woman respects

    that), but they were consistent with my original argument that his "scams" can easily be interpreted as good points

    to being a decent person and attracting women. Obviously, your clarifications were better for actually explaining

    the deeper meaning in how it works.

    The only thing I noticed is that you said I wasn't making sense with the

    "swinging between validation and rejection." I disagree with this term because you don't have to "push her away

    and then pull her back in" in order to keep her interested. You can maintain uncertainty without rocking the boat

    so much by pushing her away and then pulling her back in. Therefore, I contest the need to create such turmoil when

    you can just make sure not to either worship her or reject her. The only reason I make the distinction is because I

    can see the guy (from the way he writes it), saying to himself, "Okay, I just made fun of her twice. She's feeling

    slightly rejected. It's time to give her a big compliment and reel her back in!" Please...

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    I see ALOT of guys come to

    mASF(another seduction forum) with the attitude that they need to fix the romantic/sexual part of their life, in

    fact alot of them think this will somehow improve their lives and make them wonderful. Other's are just there out

    of insecurity(a relationship went sour and their girl bitched them out pretty bad). Thus they have to prove that

    they can get alot of women and are thus worthy.

    In fact alot of them have the attitude that in getting alot

    of women will improve their life and enhance them as persons. While me, I argue that you should live a fun and

    exciting life, enhance your person and base your selfvalue on your OWN opinion of yourself and THEN let others(women

    for example) into that, to take part of it and share it.

    The author is clearly compensating.

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    The author of that article is a

    sociopath. He can reliably expect to have his ass kicked at some point in his life by a brother, a father, or a

    particularly violent woman.

    Speaking as a father, husband and brother, I'd favor this outcome...

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    I've refrained from posting on

    this topic for a number of reasons, but I can't help but make a simple statement.


    The concept of turning

    male/female relationships into some kind of "science" or a list of techniques or poses makes me sick.

    I

    apologise if this offends anyone.

    Steve
    "...and from that egg, hatched a stone monkey!" (Newton)

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    Your comment doesn't offend me

    at all. I agree completely.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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    Icarus,
    I totally agree.

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    there's a science to everything

    in life...why not just accept it. there's a science to getting rich, being popular with people, who becomes a pop

    star, wars, etc. what makes seduction any different. note: just cause there's direction on how to attain something

    doesn't mean the steps to get there are easy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRock
    there's a science to

    everything in life...why not just accept it. there's a science to getting rich, being popular with people, who

    becomes a pop star, wars, etc. what makes seduction any different. note: just cause there's direction on how to

    attain something doesn't mean the steps to get there are easy.
    I have to say that I agree with this.

    To some extent.

    If you're not a 10, 11, or 12 (like me), your options are fewer (or maybe just less

    appealing) and you have to work a little harder, because opportunities don't just fall into your lap.

    As

    regards the social skills end of it, there's no shame in learning "scientifically" if you're not a natural. How

    else are you expected to learn?
    If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen

    Holmes' Theme Song

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus
    I've refrained

    from posting on this topic for a number of reasons, but I can't help but make a simple statement.


    The

    concept of turning male/female relationships into some kind of "science" or a list of techniques or poses makes me

    sick.

    I apologise if this offends anyone.

    Steve
    *Zoolander voice* You're just saying that 'cause

    you're really really really ridiculously good looking... (just noticed your new pic on here)

    Seriously,

    though...I agree with you...


    ...that said, I find it ironic that you say that on this forum. After all, the

    main site sells pheromones, which turns the male/female attraction into a science where you [may] use the technique

    of applying the correct dosage of the proper product to attract the opposite sex and promote better relationships.




    I'm sure I won't have to wait long before somebody explains how different the two are, but I just thought it

    was a funny observation. I know what you mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    If you're not

    a 10, 11, or 12 (like me), your options are fewer (or maybe just less appealing) and you have to work a little

    harder, because opportunities don't just fall into your lap.
    Not really...you're a musician. It

    doesn't matter what you look like; you've got the goods, buddy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRock
    there's a science

    to everything in life...why not just accept it. there's a science to getting rich, being popular with people, who

    becomes a pop star, wars, etc. what makes seduction any different. note: just cause there's direction on how to

    attain something doesn't mean the steps to get there are easy.
    That is correct. In science they teach you

    the ethics of how you use science also. It can be done does not mean it should be done. Science creates ways to kill

    millions of people or to cause pain and suffering with desease. Not all that can be done is good. Do you feel that

    since science has learned to do all these things that they should be done and all people should just accept it?



    The question is how it is used not whether it is easy or hard. Is it right? Is it ethical? Is it in the best

    interests of those involved and affected?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    I have to say that I

    agree with this. To some extent.

    If you're not a 10, 11, or 12 (like me), your options are fewer (or maybe just

    less appealing) and you have to work a little harder, because opportunities don't just fall into your lap.

    As

    regards the social skills end of it, there's no shame in learning "scientifically" if you're not a natural. How

    else are you expected to learn?
    Dude, just surround yourself with people. Learning to change your

    reaction is one thing that you may be able to gain from an article on seduction, but the personality change only

    happens over time - through real stimulus. And that change in personality will usually be the make(r) or break(er)

    between getting somewhere or nowhere with someone of the opposite sex.

    But hey. When it comes down to it, I

    don't really know anything on the subject whatsoever.... And I certainly ain't gonna peddle my views as gospel or

    try and sell them as a bible. It just never seemed like there was anything truly scientific about the part

    of the beast that we seem to be discussing in this thread. Maybe I've been unaware of the pulsing biological and

    chemical forces streaming through the air around me....

    Endnote: while I'll accept and identify with science, I

    will not let it, or institutions/systems within it dictate the manner in which I deal with the world around me.



    Peace and Love and a Few Good Bananas.

    Steve
    "...and from that egg, hatched a stone monkey!" (Newton)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icarus
    I've refrained

    from posting on this topic for a number of reasons, but I can't help but make a simple statement.


    The

    concept of turning male/female relationships into some kind of "science" or a list of techniques or poses makes me

    sick.

    I apologise if this offends anyone.

    Steve
    Way to crap all over social and

    evolutionarypsychology, although it may not be referred to as a 'science'?

    Anyhow, excuse my vulgar

    tongue. I forgot to wash my mouth with soap this morning.

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    as far as I see it, and i know im

    gonna get biched at, if you aint manipulating, then you're getting manipulated. all women ive seen manipulate, so

    why not play their game?

    its everywhere, look at adveritsing, $200 pair of shoes because some rap star wears

    them? THEY'RE SHOES MAN!

    Who actually writes the truth on their resumes? Anyone who wants a job will lie on it

    to make themeselves look better. isnt that manipulating the boss into thinking you are a better candidate for the

    job than the other person? its not like the boss will ever manipulate the workers. LOL

    its all about having

    power, and manipulation is the easiest way to get it.
    Why do women want what they can't have, and when they get it, they don't want it anymore?

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    You've been using

    performance-enhancing drugs, haven't you?


    Advertising isn't manipulation; it's persuasion. To

    manipulate you, they'd have to lie about the product. They're not lying about what the product does, they just

    say that Kobe wears them and that makes people buy them. We have lies that protect from manipulation in

    advertising.

    The same goes with a resume or attracting a woman. You can persuade without manipulating.

    "Completed projects" and "Systematically managed multiple products in a fast-paced, demanding work environment" are

    essentially saying the exact same thing, although the latter gives more detail and essentially sounds better. Did I

    lie by using the second rather than the first? No...I said the same thing. I just said it better the second

    time.

    The same goes with attraction. You can only manipulate someone if you are being fake and not being who

    you know you are. If you use techniques to improve yourself and are still being honest while using them, you're

    not manipulating. You just happen to be much more persuasive now.

    I won't deny that people are manipulative

    because almost everyone lies to look better. However, you don't have to do so, and not everyone does. Power comes

    from within; not from controlling others.

    I'd argue that manipulation is a harder way to get power because you

    have to lie. Of course, I couldn't lie if someone's life was on the line and the only way to get them out was to

    say something that was blatantly incorrect and I knew it...so maybe that's why I say that.

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