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  1. #1
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    Angry Valid reasons for using steroids

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    Short

    term use of anabolic steroids have a valid purpose. As we age, we lose our capacity to heal from ilness, wounds

    close more slowly, fractures don't join as they do in the young. A brief course of steroid supplementation can do

    wonders for the older adult who needs to regain normal muscle mass, improve appetite, and strengthen the immune

    system. Medical doctors are well aware of these beneficial properties of steroids. Generally they will refuse to

    prescribe them, primarily out of fear that they will show up on a DEA watch list of "pill doctors" and have their

    license revoked. This was the same misguided

    thinking that caused many doctors to refuse to adequately medicate patients for pain, often terrible pain, as the

    DEA bureacracy had a model where those who legitimately needed large or long term doses of opoids were, by

    definition, persons with drug abuse problems.
    In the 1990s there was such an outcry from sufferers of chronic

    pain conditions that a new dialog was opened between medicine and enforcement that recognized that pain was not "all

    in your head" (even though, technically it is) but was a real, massively debilitating dysfunction than needed

    appropriate medicine.
    Today there is a similar demonization of steroids, which have been given a bad name

    because of a hypercompetitive sports culture imposed on teen agers who are now suffering from an unprecedented level

    and range of sports injuries normally only seen in professional competitive athletes. I would submit that the

    problem isn't steroids, per se, but the professionalization, and quasi professionalization of youth sports that

    puts totally unreasonable demands on youth, often poorly informed youth who have decisions forced on them by

    demanding parents who want to vicariously live through their children's achievements or to confrom to group

    fantasies about the prowess of youth. The tragedy is that many of these young are essentially having their teen

    years stolen from them in an effort to satisfy the narcissistic demands of an older generation. Many teens will turn

    to performance enhancers in order to live up to a deranged expectation which they have come to accept as physical

    normality.
    Prohormones and steroids have become a convenient scapegoat for a culture that doesn't want to

    confront its' sins against its' children, pushing them to the point where steroids may be the only option for

    gaining social approval at an age when social approval counts for everything.

  2. #2
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Another valid use of steroids

    is to reduce inflamation. Crones desease and pnuemonia are both treated that way.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
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    The steroids used for reducing

    of inflammation are catabolic corticosteroids and would not be helpful for strength enhancement. (although they are

    occasionally used in competitive athletics because they can mask and injury and allow one to "play hurt")



    Anabolic steroids indeed have valid medical uses. I used them nearly daily when I was a burn surgeon.

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    Incidentally when I stated I

    don't have an issue with athletes in non-tested competitions using steroids, let me clarify. Morally I wouldn't

    stand in judgement of it, but I still think it's pretty stupid health wise. I wouldn't compete in a non-tested

    strength event. (or if I did, it would be just to compare to my own PR's)

  5. #5
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    Red face

    Using for health reasons gets my

    vote, but still ... they pay in the end, too! ""I"" THINK it's a lose lose sit-cha-tion. But to gamble with

    your life to look big Mike Mazzarato (spelling) ... young bodybuilder ... triple bypass surgery ... he's

    maybe 34. Some pay sooner than others.

    Anywho .... This is Mobley's Steroid Pain tree ... as life developes.



    USER
    I
    USER GETS SICK BECAUSE OF USE
    I

    I
    MOTHER FATHER
    I I
    SISTER

    BROTHER
    I I
    GIRLFRIEND WIFE
    I

    I
    CHILD CHILDREN
    I

    I
    KIN FRIENDS
    I
    USER



    That's most of the people YOU hurt once you start paying, but in the end, YOU hurt YOU.


    There's this kid in my gym ... he may be 20, but he's short, and a nice build for his size. I saw him

    and his lady in Taco Hell last week, and he admitted that he's tried it. I pointed at his girlfriend, and said to

    him, "you're hurting her, and you don't even know it." He looked at me funny, and I think it was because he, like

    so many others, think that I use, too. Not!

    Sorry, I always try NOT TO tell people what they should or

    shouldn't do, but I do realize that people have a hard time seeing the BIG PICTURE.
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

  6. #6
    Bad Motha Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOBLEYC57
    Mike Mazzarato

    (spelling) ... young bodybuilder ... triple bypass surgery ... he's maybe 34. Some pay sooner than others.
    Holy shit. That guy had triple bypass surgery?!

    I remember him from the Cybergenics

    days.
    If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen

    Holmes' Theme Song

  7. #7
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    Holy shit.

    That guy had triple bypass surgery?!

    I remember him from the Cybergenics days.
    That bees dee

    truth ... saw it in a mag this past weekend. If you noticed, and if you kind of look through the Muscle Mags ...

    he's (Quadzilla) been out of the light for a bit. I didn't notice it until I read it.

    Thing is ... if

    these top bodybuilders, with doctors at their sides, are falling apart from use ... what do people think is going to

    happen to those that doesn't have their personal docs!?

    Tis sad, but true. They just had a discussion

    on there being a steroid epidemic in America, on ESPN.

    Wake up people!!!

    I CARE!

    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

  8. #8
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    Exclamation I meant short term (3-5 days) and moderate doses !

    Speaking from personal experience. As a middle aged guy, when I contract a nasty respiratory

    infection or flu it may take a month before I fully feel like myself again. If it is mid winter, cold weather,

    people sneezing and hacking all around me, possibly a couple of flus and assorted respiratory bugs. Even with a flu

    shot, Tamiflu, Levaquin, the whole shooting match, a hard winter can leave you weak and run down. No energy, no

    appetite, you can feel the strength and muscle mass leaving your body. Flus are more frequent and more intense as

    international travel increases, the CDC doesn't have time to respond in coordination with vaccine manufacurers like

    Chiron, and we are looking right down the barrel of a shotgun at worse yet. Influenza is right now the 6th leading

    cause of death in the USA and probably the #1 cause of acute illness.
    A short term course of an anabolic will

    dramatically shorten the recovery period and enhance immune response. Assuming good health practices, as much rest

    as possible, high fluid intake, you can be back on your feet and mentally clear, feeling productive instead of the

    lingering malaise of depression and low motivation in about one week. That would be the equivalent of my health when

    I was in my 20s.
    Anabolics have an interesting short term blessing and a long term curse. Just as catabolic

    steroids; cortisone, prednisone, etc. are powerfully anti-inflammatory, suppressing immune responses, anabolic

    steroids are pro-inflammatory. The inflammation response IS what is needed when you have an active infection. As we

    age, our immune responses falter for a number of reasons, including the loss of the thymus gland which produces an

    important immune system hormone. We can't fight off infections as well, and vaccinations don't "take", our immune

    system has less capacity to remember the signature of the invading foreign organism.
    Much of cardiovascular

    disease in now believed to have a long term inflammation component, and a blood test for this background

    inflammation, C-Reactive Protein is now being included in cardiac risk profiles.
    Thus, the desired, valuable,

    life saving effect of inflammation is inappropriately prolonged in the high dose anabolic abuser, opening the way to

    vascular injury.

  9. #9
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by surfs_up
    Speaking from

    personal experience. As a middle aged guy, when I contract a nasty respiratory infection or flu it may take a month

    before I fully feel like myself again. If it is mid winter, cold weather, people sneezing and hacking all around me,

    possibly a couple of flus and assorted respiratory bugs. Even with a flu shot, Tamiflu, Levaquin, the whole shooting

    match, a hard winter can leave you weak and run down. No energy, no appetite, you can feel the strength and muscle

    mass leaving your body. Flus are more frequent and more intense as international travel increases, the CDC doesn't

    have time to respond in coordination with vaccine manufacurers like Chiron, and we are looking right down the barrel

    of a shotgun at worse yet. Influenza is right now the 6th leading cause of death in the USA and probably the #1

    cause of acute illness.
    A short term course of an anabolic will dramatically shorten the recovery period and

    enhance immune response. Assuming good health practices, as much rest as possible, high fluid intake, you can be

    back on your feet and mentally clear, feeling productive instead of the lingering malaise of depression and low

    motivation in about one week. That would be the equivalent of my health when I was in my 20s.
    Anabolics have an

    interesting short term blessing and a long term curse. Just as catabolic steroids; cortisone, prednisone, etc. are

    powerfully anti-inflammatory, suppressing immune responses, anabolic steroids are pro-inflammatory. The inflammation

    response IS what is needed when you have an active infection. As we age, our immune responses falter for a number of

    reasons, including the loss of the thymus gland which produces an important immune system hormone. We can't fight

    off infections as well, and vaccinations don't "take", our immune system has less capacity to remember the

    signature of the invading foreign organism.
    Much of cardiovascular disease in now believed to have a long term

    inflammation component, and a blood test for this background inflammation, C-Reactive Protein is now being included

    in cardiac risk profiles.
    Thus, the desired, valuable, life saving effect of inflammation is inappropriately

    prolonged in the high dose anabolic abuser, opening the way to vascular injury.
    Knowledge is POWER

    ... Thanks Surf!

    For others that don't know ... even short term has a price ticket. Who knows what evil

    is already in the body awaiting that power surge to feed off of.
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

  10. #10
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    Last edited by cig3f; 03-13-2010 at 01:20 AM.

  11. #11
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    Exclamation Why do we need to do massively dumb stuff ???

    This is a poor analogy... scuba diving is risky, divers know that it is risky, but many people scuba

    dive. Certification involves training so you know what the risk factors are and what you must do to avoid them. Only

    a fool would dive without knowing how to calculate decompression. Hop on a plane without allowing sufficient hours

    to desaturate your blood from residual nitrogen and you will experience serious decompression sickness while

    airborne. This has actually happened to divers whose dive computers malfunctioned and they were too obtuse to double

    check their blood gasses against a dive table. Even when the computers gave obviously unrealistic "time to fly"

    schedules, like 6 hours when 30 hours would be expected. Fortunately this doesn't happen too often because divers

    are pretty well trained in managing risks. The bodybuilding industry hasn't accepted anything close to the level of

    responsibility for safety that the scuba diving industry has, as a result the field is littered with casualties. If

    scuba divers dove with the same cavalier attitude that bodybuilders have there would be no divers left in short

    order.

  12. #12
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by surfs_up
    If scuba divers

    dove with the same cavalier attitude that bodybuilders have there would be no divers left in short order.
    I

    could even understand bodybuilders that MADE money taking the risk ... money does that. Money worked wonders for

    Arnold, who had enough of it to have bypass surgery, but for the sake of just walking around huge?



    I agree with you, SUp.
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfs_up
    This is a poor

    analogy... scuba diving is risky, divers know that it is risky, but many people scuba dive. Certification involves

    training so you know what the risk factors are and what you must do to avoid them. Only a fool would dive without

    knowing how to calculate decompression. Hop on a plane without allowing sufficient hours to desaturate your blood

    from residual nitrogen and you will experience serious decompression sickness while airborne. This has actually

    happened to divers whose dive computers malfunctioned and they were too obtuse to double check their blood gasses

    against a dive table. Even when the computers gave obviously unrealistic "time to fly" schedules, like 6 hours when

    30 hours would be expected. Fortunately this doesn't happen too often because divers are pretty well trained in

    managing risks. The bodybuilding industry hasn't accepted anything close to the level of responsibility for safety

    that the scuba diving industry has, as a result the field is littered with casualties. If scuba divers dove with the

    same cavalier attitude that bodybuilders have there would be no divers left in short order.
    In short,

    curbing juice use can do divers good for one's well-being.
    If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen

    Holmes' Theme Song

  14. #14
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes
    In short, curbing

    juice use can do divers good for one's well-being.
    <HOLMES>
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

  15. #15
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    Default Arnold continues to smoke cigars ? Moron...

    if he had bypass surgery... he has his special tent outside of his office to allow him to smoke his

    cigars when the nic fit takes him... so, I assume he is either suicidal, hoplessly addicted to nicotine, or never

    had bypass surgery. There were rumors in the '90s that Arnold has multiple organ injuries from heavy roid use, was

    living out of a clinic in Switzerland where they put him back together.... its the methyl testosterone that gets you

    bad right in the liver... however, nobody knows for sure, could have even had a transplant for all we know.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfs_up
    so, I assume he is

    either suicidal, hoplessly addicted to nicotine, or never had bypass surgery.
    No, just

    unbesiegbar.
    If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen

    Holmes' Theme Song

  17. #17
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    Talking eventually some $hit will take you out

    he's a tough cookie... gotta wonder how many body parts he can call his own though... did father kids

    unless they were sperm donored... John Travolta told Letterman he's sell his for $20,000,000... we'll see if the

    little ones look more italian than austrian... arnold could charm anyone into whacking off into a plastic cup if his

    own nuts have shrivelled to the size of rasins... Bob Dylan and Snoop Dog together ? They get twins, one of each ?

    Nice normal family....

  18. #18
    Bad Motha Holmes's Avatar
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    Default Valid Reason For NOT Using Steroids

    Quote Originally Posted by surfs_up
    he's a tough cookie... gotta wonder how many body parts he can call his own though... did father

    kids unless they were sperm donored... John Travolta told Letterman he's sell his for $20,000,000... we'll see if

    the little ones look more italian than austrian... arnold could charm anyone into whacking off into a plastic cup if

    his own nuts have shrivelled to the size of rasins... Bob Dylan and Snoop Dog together ? They get twins, one of each

    ? Nice normal family....


    On that note, meet

    Greg.

    (Excuse me for a second - gotta

    vom.)
    If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen

    Holmes' Theme Song

  19. #19
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    Valentino is disgusting.... so

    is that "klaus" character (i think that's his name) there is a huge difference between steroids and injecting oil

    under and into a muscle to make it look better...

    I can find many valid reasons for steroid use... like any

    drug they are only a problem when ABused...

    MB
    "You are a sick f*ck, but I wouldn't have you any other way. "
    ~Becca

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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by ManBeast
    Valentino is

    disgusting.... so is that "klaus" character (i think that's his name) there is a huge difference between steroids

    and injecting oil under and into a muscle to make it look better...MB
    In his case, and like so many

    others, he's making money. For lots, that's a valid reason ... just not me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ManBeast
    I can find many

    valid reasons for steroid use... like any drug they are only a problem when ABused...
    MB
    For the sake of

    good health and all the family and friends that gets mentally hurt/involved when things go wrong with the

    user/abuser, ManBeast ... I don't THINK you're right, BUT, I SURE HOPE you are.
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

  21. #21
    Full Member culturalblonde's Avatar
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    My goodness! The article

    states he wants to be a freak. Is it a chemical imbalance? And, is it painful to have arms like that? I see a lot

    of men at the gym with big arms and either no or hardly any leg muscles. Are arm muscles something men are more

    proud of (in terms of weight lifting)?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by culturalblonde
    My

    goodness! The article states he wants to be a freak. Is it a chemical imbalance? And, is it painful to have arms

    like that? I see a lot of men at the gym with big arms and either no or hardly any leg muscles. Are arm muscles

    something men are more proud of (in terms of weight lifting)?
    Yesssssiree, CB! Freak = moe money! Nope,

    it's not a chemical imbalance ... he's shooting something in his muscles. I can't remember what, but it's not

    steroids. Anyone? Anyone?

    You'd think he'd shoot his forearms, too. He looks sick.

    And yes, men

    have a tendency to want big arms before legs ... that's how I started out. I understood the balance of having legs

    too, and did something about it, and had legs at one time. I think I cursed myself when I often thought and laughed

    at those with nice upper bodies with tooth pic legs. Now ... I'm an offical member, and can't do too much about

    it.
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

  23. #23
    Phero Enthusiast ManBeast's Avatar
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    I've got symmetry... probably

    the second best in my household (4/5 of us lift) but I'm overweight somewhat too... But in terms of "proportional"

    lifts, My squat is the best compared to my bench... so I'm happy... it *does* suck sometimes to have to buy

    shorts/pants one waist size too big to prevent my cellphone from looking innapropriate in my pockets though....



    MB
    "You are a sick f*ck, but I wouldn't have you any other way. "
    ~Becca

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    I'll be turning 45 this month and

    have been considering using a presciption Testosterone gel such as Derma-Test 100 Testosterone Gel that I can

    purchase from an reputable internet pharmacy.

    I don't want to do any of the injectables, and the transdermal

    method seems somewhat effective.

    What are the pro's and con's?

    Thanks.

    Product

    Description:

    Derma-test 100, Testosterone gel is a recently developed testosterone product. It is a clear,

    colorless hydro alcoholic gel containing 10% testosterone, and provides continuous trans-dermal delivery of

    testosterone for 24 hours following a single application. It provides a non-invasive method of application along

    with a consistent level of testosterone absorption. A daily application of Testosterone Gel delivers 100 mg of

    testosterone per gram, per day, to the skin's surface. Testosterone gel is designed to release testosterone in a

    varying level, over a 24 hours period. This is to mimic the natural (uneven) pattern of a healthy young man, with

    peaks and lows throughout the duration producing circulating testosterone concentrations that approximate normal

    levels (598 -1043 mg/ml).

    This product is quite different from previous testosterone delivery mechanisms such

    as patches, which are designed for application on the shaved scrotal area (obviously not a comfortable

    practice).

    As with all testosterone products it has a strong anabolic activity, with a pronounced androgenic

    component. Thus it can provide significant gains in strength and muscle mass, as well a noticeable increase in

    libido.

    The recommended starting dose of testosterone gel 10% is one gram (to deliver 100 mg of testosterone)

    applied once daily (preferably in the morning) to clean, dry, intact skin of the abdomen.

    After a few weeks

    of daily application, a relatively steady state blood testosterone level is generally attained, typically in the

    region of 800mg/ml. Though some doctors prescribe twice-a-day application, many feel that once-a day delivers a more

    natural effect. This application occurs first thing in the morning to mimic the body's normal early morning rise in

    testosterone. Application to areas of the skin that have a layer of fat under them will slow the release of the

    testosterone so that blood levels are maintained longer. It is also recommended that the sites of application around

    the body are rotated so that optimal absorption is maintained. The best application areas include the chest, abdomen

    or inner thigh.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holmes




    On that note, meet Greg.

    (Excuse me

    for a second - gotta vom.)
    I was eating when I clicked on that link!

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    Quote Originally Posted by culturalblonde
    My

    goodness! The article states he wants to be a freak. Is it a chemical imbalance? And, is it painful to have arms

    like that? I see a lot of men at the gym with big arms and either no or hardly any leg muscles. Are arm muscles

    something men are more proud of (in terms of weight lifting)?
    Bodybuilding has destroyed weightlifting as

    a productive exercise. The focus on isolating and hypertrophying muscles for aesthetic purpose is silly and vain.

    So, yes, many men(silly and vain) will go for beach muscles.

    sad but true

  27. #27
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    After some quick

    googling
    http://www.elitefitness.com/articled...id-special.avi
    ([

    url]http://www.xvidmovies.com/codec/[/url] for those who need codec)

    Not to mention the non anabolic or

    androgenic steroids such as glucocorticoids who besides their already mentioned anti-inflammatory properties also

    aid in saving infants lives by developing their lungs so they wont collapse when they are born prematurely.



    As for bodybuilders including Arnold, they are walking pharmacies and cannot be parallelled to the average

    highschoolfootball abuser. Sideffects of anabolic androgenic steroids are dosedependant.

  28. #28
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    I know this thread is old and

    practically dead, but y'all should really stick to posting about pheromones on this forum. How many of you have

    USED steroids, and have both the knowledge and experience to back up ANYTHING you've written OR read about? You're

    like armchair generals - arrggghhh - I should stop now.
    But Damn.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabe1970
    I know this

    thread is old and practically dead, but y'all should really stick to posting about pheromones on this forum. How

    many of you have USED steroids, and have both the knowledge and experience to back up ANYTHING you've written OR

    read about? You're like armchair generals - arrggghhh - I should stop now.
    But Damn.
    This

    particular forum was created to discuss health issues and steroids certanly qualify under that heading. having used

    a substance does not qualify you as an expert either. If that were the case I could be qualified to lecture on a

    long list of substances.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  30. #30
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    Default Total Frigging B.S.

    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth
    ...having used a substance does not qualify you as an expert either. If that were the case I could

    be qualified to lecture on a long list of substances.
    IMHO you ARE qualified to lecture on that long list

    of substances, Belgareth. It may not make you an expert, or make you a recognized authority, but it makes you well

    worth listening to from my standpoint as a non-user. I would expect you to acknowledge that you weren't an expert

    and back up your claims with personal experiences and appropriate references. THUS the weight of an experienced

    pheromone user on this site is more valuable to me than the words of any scientific article, advertisement, or other

    media propoganda. And I'm not operating in a vacuum of information when I do ask questions on this site. Don't

    ever presume that I'm putting you or any other experienced user on an altar, as I will definitely research every

    fact and opinion anyone posts on this site.
    But having said that, I'll be damned if I'm going to sit back and let

    a bunch of ignoramuses give potential life-changing advice to anyone who's contemplating using drugs without

    knowing wtf they're talking about.

    For the record, if any readers really want to read balanced and informed

    opinions and articles about anabolic steroids and other how they are used - both safely and in excess- the forum you

    are currently reading is not a safe or suitable place for it. It is 100% completely innappropriate in any way

    shape or form. It is irresponsible for anyone to allow this crap to be posted here. Visit

    http://www.testosterone.net for more information than you can ever need, and PM or IM me for more

    links/info because I'm done with this BS thread.

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