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    Question Mobley's Body Language Notes

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    Howdy

    Folks!

    Since this subject hit the forum, I've collected things/notes that caught my interest, and

    wanted to share them. I'm sure there's lots more that can be added, but this is what I have. Sorry, no links.



    BODY LANGUAGE NOTES:

    The less you move about

    (body movement) when entering a room, the more powerful and credible you are perceived to be.

    To accurately

    interpret a person’s body language one must be aware of (1) the culture in which it takes place, (2) whether the

    environment is professional or personal, (3) the gender of the participant, and (4) be sure you’re receiving more

    than 1 sign (the more signs you see, the greater the possibilities are that you’ve read her interest in you

    correctly).

    GESTURES

    * Catching one’s eye

    gaze, and holding it long than what is considered normal.


    * Preening - A woman may

    stroke her hair, twirl or toss her hair, check her makeup in a mirror, or rearrange her clothing.




    * Moving in for the kill (cutting the space/distance between you two) - Some signs that someone is

    trying to command your attention is the pouting of the lips, crossing and uncrossing the legs, placing the hands on

    the hips, thrusting the hips out and leaning one’s body in toward you.


    * Swaying

    of her body and hips as she walks.


    EYE

    CONTACT

    In a business or classroom situation, hard eye

    contact is possible, but you must consider the professional setting. To help figure it out, you can look to see if

    the body is turned away from you, or towards you.

    SIGNS OF SEXUAL

    INTEREST

    * Intense eye contact (which will often shift to sexual organs,

    like the breast or genitalia, or looking the intended up and down).

    * An overly

    exaggerated or coy smile
    * Concocted

    laughter
    * Winking
    * Licking

    the lips to wet them
    * Touching oneself in a flirtatious

    manner
    * Overtly touching the intended target
    * Overtly thrusting out the

    breast and/or hips
    * Swaying of the hips
    * Wearing of revealing clothing or excessive

    makeup
    * Slightly separating her legs (in invitation) when seated.
    * Holding her hands

    near her breast or thighs when talking.
    * Forward thrusting of her breast.
    * Slowly

    licking her lips
    * Hair twirl with a finger
    * Lightly rubbing her

    neck/leg
    * Lightly running a finger across her lip(s), breast
    * Playing with her

    jewelry
    * Looking at your lips when you talk
    * Showing more leg then is appropriate (if

    in a dress)

    HOW TO TELL IF SHE’S PLAYING HARD TO GET



    She’ll give the SIGNS OF SEXUAL INTEREST before turning and walking away. To determine if there’s genuine

    interest, just look into her eyes. If she’s truly attracted, her eyes will drop, but will return to meet your

    gaze.

    STEPS IN CREATING SEXUAL ATTRACTION



    OPEN POSTURE. DO NOT cross anything ... arms, legs, or sit or stand with hunched over

    shoulders.


    FACE YOUR PROSPECT, making sure you’re entire body is facing her.

    THE

    FLIRTING TRIANGLE -
    When the eyes travel from the eyes down the face, (for a more prolong period) to the mouth,

    and for the more daring, the chest or genitalia area. The more intense flirting will have one looking from eye to

    eye, and make sure you concentrate on the lips. Constantly looking at the lips will have them wondering if you’re

    fantasizing about kissing them. The wider the flirting triangle, the more sexual interest exists.

    MIRRORING

    -
    Mirroring is one of the most powerful and influential body language skills we can possess. Whatever moves she

    makes, you make, but work to not be so obvious. The concept of mirroring is to get someone to like you, and works as

    a bonding mechanism. (1) NEVER mimic a negative movement (crossing of the arms or legs), (2) allow at least 50

    SECONDS to pass before mirroring your target.

    THE EYEBROW FLASH - When we first encounter someone that we

    find attractive, our eyebrows instinctively rise and fall in a flirtatious pattern. Recognizing this can be very

    advantageous to someone looking for romantic interest. It only last about one fifth of a second, so one has to

    really be paying attention. If you want to let someone know of your romantic interest, magnify the eyebrow flash,

    coupled with a smile.

    POINTING - It’s natural for people to point at things that draws their interest, so

    pay attention to their feet and hands. On a more subconscious level, people will position themselves so that their

    hands, arms, legs, feet, toes and even their entire body at someone they’re interested in. If you want to let

    someone know you’re interested in them, turn your body towards them.

    BLINKING - Focus on her pupils,

    which instinctively dilates when she sees someone, or something that interests her. Likewise, blinking

    proportionately increases with this augmentation in pupil size. It is said that you can increase the blinking

    rate of your target by blinking more yourself
    .

    FOUR RULES FOR CREATING

    ATTRACTION

    * If someone hasn’t picked up on your interest, or is not

    responding ... Do the opposite of what she’s doing. The opposite of mirroring ... she crosses her arms, you uncross

    yours, she uncrosses her legs, you cross yours.


    * Physically invade the other person’s territory,

    SLOWLY to gradually break down her defense.

    * Visual intrusion. Allow the eyes to do the talking for you. Let

    them sensuously linger on her lips, neck, throat, collarbone, or breast (places you would like to kiss her).

    *

    Licking your lips, and narrowing of the eyes (bedroom eyes) also stirs arousal.

    * Focus your

    full attention on your target ONLY.


    SIGNS OF

    LYING

    * Covering the mouth. People will try to cover it with a manufactured cough.

    *

    Stroking the nose.

    * Closed palms

    * Lack of eye contact - Women tend to look up at the ceiling and rub under

    their eye to not give direct eye contact.

    * Prolonged contact or heavy staring is the throw off method of

    covering it up.

    * She looks up and to the left ... normally, mentally conjuring up something - she’s lying

    *

    She looks up and to the right ... normally, she’s recalling an image - she’s not lying

    * Minute facial

    expressions

    * Increased sweating

    READING POSTURE

    * Open posture

    and leaning forward - an indication that she is responsive to and accepting what you’re telling her.

    * Open

    posture and leaning backwards - an indication that she is evaluating the information that you are giving her.

    *

    Closed posture and leaning forward - an indication that she isn’t paying any attention to what you’re saying. She’s

    either skeptical or angry at what has been said.

    * Closed posture and leaning backwards - an indication that she

    wants to flee the situation completely.

    SHE’S REJECTING YOU IF...

    *

    She rubs her nose
    * Crosses that arms and legs
    * Rubbing the hands or tugging at her ear



    DATING YOUNGER WOMEN

    THE SPECIFICS... WHAT, WHEN,

    HOW WHY, WHERE...


    Here are some specific ideas for dating younger women.

    REMEMBER: These are WOMEN. They're not a different species.


    1) Be Cool, Dude. When most older

    guys meet a younger woman that they feel attracted to, they immediately begin to act WEIRD. They stop acting like

    "themselves". Now, women don't know what you're like "normally", but they can tell INSTANTLY if you're NOT ACTING

    LIKE YOURSELF. Us guys do all kinds of subtle and not-so-subtle little things when we're feeling nervous... and

    these things give women the HEEBIE JEEBIES! So be cool. Relax. Don't act like a Wussbag.

    2) Treat her like a

    BRATTY LITTLE SISTER. Now that you're being "cool", take it to the NEXT LEVEL... Use one of my favorite personal

    techniques, and treat her like your BRATTY LITTLE SIS. Tease her. Make fun. It's OK, go for it. Say all the things

    you never had a chance to say when you were a freshman. Now's your big chance! And don't worry about it when she

    plays "fake mad". Just turn it up some more. Oh, and call her on everything she does, or say that's immature. I

    can't go into all the reasons why this is a great idea, but it is. You keep your power, you have all kinds of

    opportunities to be Cocky & Funny, and you can always keep things interesting and challenging. Oh, and it's

    COMPLETELY different than the way most Wussies treat her... which is good.

    3) Don't try to follow or get her to

    lead. Women in general are not attracted to men who don't take the lead... and younger women are no exception. In

    fact, younger women have less experience in life, so trying to get them to lead and tell you what they want you to

    do is just a horrible idea. Don't do it. You lead. You decide where you're going. You make the rules. If you try

    to make her the boss, you'll run her off faster than you can say "I touch myself."

    4) Don't try to take

    advantage of the situation. Most attractive young women have had at LEAST one "icky older guy" that "tried

    something" with her. Younger women are HYPER-ALERT when it comes to sketchy behavior. If you try to take advantage

    of the situation or try to "make a move" too early, you'll most likely signal to her that you're a "perv" and that

    you aren't to be trusted. Lean back. Chill. Give her room. When you walk down the street with her, bump into her

    and push her AWAY from you. Tell her not to walk too close to you... tell her that other people might think

    something. If you're alone with her in your living room, don't sit right next to her. If she touches you while

    talking, don't touch her back... or even make fun of it and say "Keep your hands off the goods."

    5) Don't

    intrude on or interfere with her life. You must remember that younger women have lives of their own. Often they're

    very close to their families, and they're unsure of how their families would respond if they found out that their

    pride and joy daughter was dating an older guy. Remember, she just got FREE of the overbearing father... and she

    doesn't need a new one. Don't call her at work, don't show up to see her unexpectedly, and don't embarrass her.

    If you want to make an attractive young woman perform magic (the instant disappearing act), just interfere with her

    life. She's free, so let her be free. Encourage it, even. Don't interfere.

    6) Let her come to you... don't

    chase her. If you want to make friends with a cat, the best tactic is to IGNORE IT. Cats are interesting creatures.

    Have you ever noticed that if you chase a cat, it will run... but if you sit and ignore it, you'll soon find

    yourself pushing it off of your lap? Same goes for younger women. Like I just mentioned, younger women have often

    just "escaped" from controlling parents, structured lives, and zero freedom. If she's attracted to you, it's not

    because you're creating the environment that she just left... it's because you represent something different.

    You'll find that if you call her all the time and chase her, she'll be harder to get a hold of, and less likely to

    continue to see you. If you let her go, let her live her life, and make yourself more scarce, you'll be more likely

    to have her pursuing YOU. Be the man that she's always dreamed about, and then don't chase her.

    7) EXPECT her

    to change. If you're dating a woman between the ages of 18 and 23, you need to remember that her life is probably

    going to change DRAMATICALLY over the next few years. You need to keep an open mind, and not try to restrict or

    hinder her options. You need to expect and even encourage her to grow, change, and become all she can be. The

    reality is that the chances are SLIM that she's going to be with you in a few years. In fact, the chances are slim

    that she's even going to be the same person in a few years. Get over it, and be OK with it. Challenge her to grow,

    achieve, and be her best... and don't accept second-class behavior from her. But she's going to change, so expect

    it.

    8) Be CHIVALROUS. Most younger women have had VERY FEW men in their lives who even know what the word

    "Chivalry" means. If you're one of those men, then you need to LEARN what the word means. Opening doors, walking on

    the outside of the curb, and pulling out chairs makes a BIG impression on younger women. When you combine a

    masculine, powerful presence with chivalry, you will stand out and make yourself VERY intriguing and attractive.



    9) Stay totally calm in the face of drama. Younger women often have a lot of drama happening around them, and they

    often act dramatic. I could write an entire book about all the things that a young woman has going on around her

    that are TOTALLY UNSTABLE... And the most influential one is the other people in her life. If she freaks out about

    something, don't let it get to you. Stay cool and calm. Don't try to fix all her problems, and don't try to stand

    in for her dad. She isn't looking for advice, so don't give it to her (unless she asks seriously, and in a

    non-emotional tone). One of the things that makes you attractive as an older man is the stability that you bring. So

    BRING IT.

    10) Be conscious of how often you see her and speak with her. Younger women are less in-control of

    their emotions... and can become attached more quickly and easily. The "trigger" for a woman "becoming attached" is

    how often you see her and talk to her. If you want to trigger the "relationship" mechanism, spend a lot of time with

    her. If you DON'T want to trigger those emotions, you need to limit the time you spend with her. As a rule of

    thumb, don't see her more than once a week, and don't talk to her more than once or twice a week unless you want

    her to start becoming very attached to you. And I don't care what you SAY... it's the AMOUNT OF TIME you spend

    with her that makes this determination. Trust me.

    UNDERSTAND ATTRACTION: As always, the

    most IMPORTANT thing you must understand when dating younger women is how ATTRACTION WORKS. If you don't understand

    ATTRACTION, then none of what I just taught you will make a damn bit of difference... In fact, if you don't

    understand ATTRACTION, then most of the things I just taught you above will probably BACKFIRE on you. So what's the

    best way to learn how to make women feel ATTRACTION for you? In fact, what's the fastest, most efficient, most

    complete, most EFFECTIVE way to learn how to make women feel ATTRACTION for you available in the world? Do the

    opposite of what you think you should do to win her over. If you put a young, beautiful woman in a guys house on his

    couch, he doesn't know the FIRST THING about how to make her feel ATTRACTION for him. He'll do things to please

    her, hoping that at some point she begins to get "into the mood"... and then somehow lets him know. It will NEVER

    HAPPEN. But if that guy knows the secrets of how to make a woman feel ATTRACTION... and how to smoothly take things

    to a physical level without triggering resistance and rejection... then he will be successful almost every

    time.


    AN IRONIC PROLOGUE: As I sat in Starbucks writing this newsletter on my

    laptop, across from me is a couple sitting at a table talking. And guess what? He's obviously older. He's probably

    in his early 30s. She looks and sounds like she's around 19 or 20 years old.

    It's obvious that this is the

    first time that they've met (they're wrapping up their conversation, and she just said "It was nice meeting you").

    He wasn't saying much, and she was basically doing all the talking... and boy was she ever talking. About a million

    miles a minute...

    She was leading the entire conversation, and he was trying to be a "nice guy" and let her

    lead things.

    She was talking about what life was like before she moved away from her parents.

    She was

    saying "My parents were overbearing" and talking about what it was like to live at home. The guy was sitting there

    nervously talking to her... and fidgeting. She was asking him questions like "What is your family like", and he was

    trying to give her "good answers" like "My family is nice, and my parents are sweet" etc.

    It was obvious that

    she was trying to keep the conversation going, and he was trying his best not to "say anything stupid"... he was

    trying to seem like a "nice guy". At one point when she asked him a question, he sat forward, turned his hands up in

    the air in a "I'm just a regular guy, nothing special here" gesture, and answered about himself.

    They just got

    up and left. It was PAINFULLY CLEAR to me that this guy did NOT understand what to do in this situation. He probably

    met her online in a chat or on a personals website. He was probably all excited about meeting her. He probably

    offered to take her to dinner, and paid for an expensive meal... and maybe even a movie before winding up at

    Starbucks. He probably has no idea whether or not she is interested in him, and he will probably go home tonight

    wishing he would have kissed her... and wishing he would have "made a move". He didn't get it. DON'T BE

    THAT GUY!


    One thing to look for when you are unsure of a woman’s interest is

    whether the woman is tightly clasping their hands together or crossing their feet at the ankles underneath their

    chairs (almost putting their feet behind them). These are signs that they are feeling anxious and are trying to

    maintain control over themselves. The hand clasping is a more certain signal (in my experience). The woman is

    usually standing when she does this (because she cannot cross her ankles and be ladylike). So, if you move closer,

    she may make nervous eye contact with you (if you are the reason why she is feeling that way). If you move farther

    away she may relax a bit and try to check you out. If she doesn't change her posture after you change your

    position, she is probably not thinking about you/attracted to you.

    I should also have mentioned that you can

    look at which direction their feet are pointing, and in which direction they are aiming their torsos. Tonight, a

    woman who was very interested in me sat down and talked with another man for about five minutes. Nonetheless,

    wherever I stood in the room, her feet managed to point toward me. She continually shifted her position so that I

    remained in her eyesight. But she did not flip her hair, adjust her clothing, rub her legs, thrust her breasts out

    at me, or smile at me, or send any of the classic "I am interested in you" signals (she is probably 30ish). She was

    very cool, very subtle. I already knew beforehand she was interested in me but I was somewhat amused AND amazed to

    see how she maintained that non-verbal connection with me while maintaining a full conversation with the other man

    (and SHE was doing most of the talking). Women send signals men just never realize are there. I am sure the other

    guy thought she was into him. She was just being polite and answering his questions.

    SELLING

    AND INFLUENCING

    They’re possibly interested in buying if they are ...

    maintaining eye contact, turning their body towards you, nod their head in agreement to what you have to

    say.


    INCREASING THE PROBABILITY OF A SALE

    *

    Stand up when greeting someone

    * Study their formality and energy level and

    match them with your own

    * Put forth a strong and effective handshake

    * Convey open and relaxed posture



    * Allow your body language to match your words

    * Move closer to your target

    * Keep your hands in neutral

    position, and never point

    * Use leaning to your advantage:

    - LEAN IN to display interest;

    - LEAN BACK

    when you’re making a point to be taken seriously; and

    - MAINTAIN NEUTRAL POSTURE when discussing prices.

    *

    Allow brief silences

    * Make a lasting impression - Stand up straight, give a firm handshake, and

    maintain good eye contact when closing a deal.




    -------------------------------------
    I didn't write any of this, but I

    collected bits and pieces as I ran into things here and there. Body Language is hard if ya ask me, but, I can see

    where it can be useful!


    Hope something in

    here helps ya!

    Last edited by MOBLEYC57; 03-28-2005 at 10:58 PM.
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

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    if my REP had any value, i'd

    REP you NOW.

    OK, who's gonna STICKY this?

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    Phero Enthusiast Icehawk's Avatar
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    Great post but I think your font

    size control is screwed up , its all over the place

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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Icehawk
    Great post but I

    think your font size control is screwed up , its all over the place
    Thanks, CarniV!

    Yeah,

    IH, I know. I edited it twice, changed the font sizes, and it looked great. But after I submitted it again, it came

    out the same. Sowwy!
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

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    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    No problem to fix it for you.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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    Lightbulb

    Thanks, Bel! I think I

    got most of the kinks out!
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

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    It is very interesting

    indeed.

    Some things are classics but it's good to be reminded.

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    Full Member SirAngel's Avatar
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    Great notes .. thanks

    Mobley
    "He who makes a beast of himself
    gets rid of the pain of being a man"
    DR. JOHNSON


    Greetings
    SirAngel

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    I just picked up a book on

    body language so I'll add anything else as I am reading.This should be a sticky thread.

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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by platinumfox
    I just picked

    up a book on body language so I'll add anything else as I am reading.This should be a sticky thread.
    Any

    new additions, PFox?

    I've noticed lately that when I'm working at getting my throne back at MiniPool,

    I cross my ankles realllll tightly while playing. Any thoughts, 'cause this is definitely new to me?
    Never argue with ignorant people! They pull you down to THEIR level, and then they BEAT YOU with experience. Who said that!? I don't know, but tis gold I tell'ya!!

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    Relaxed seduceme's Avatar
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    The median 22yr old woman gets

    laid twice as often than the median 22yr old man. This draws to the conclusion that most 22yr old guys dont get laid

    quite often, and that a handful get laid all the time, with alot of different partners.

    Now I agree in

    everything thats written here, this is VERY good material for guys who are pretty much clueless. This stuff alone

    WILL get you laid, liked, in a relationship, whichever preference you might have.


    BUT(you knew it was

    coming), one thing I have to comment on in this text is that alot of it is based on calibrating. Meaning you CARE

    what she thinks of you. Trying to read if she's interested, or attracted.

    Me, I say SCREW THAT THINKING!

    Assume there is attraction and maintain that frame of mind! If you behave like they are attracted to you and you

    maintain that reality they'll soon be sucked into it. And if you dont give a flying * if they like you or

    dont(simply assuming they do) then you come off as strong and manly(read: leading) as possible. That is attractive.

    Furthermore to evolve away from bodylanguage specifics I can add that bodylanguage is just a reflection of you state

    of mind and emotion. What you believe.

    Believe you are attractive and you'll behave attractively(where

    bodylanguage is a part of that behavior). Instead of focusing on do A and B and C and D to reflect attraction, try

    to imagine you two are in the bedroom about to have sex, then that triangular gaze, the soft bedroom eyes, the soft

    sensual movements will all come naturally.

    This is ofcourse advancing from the specifics of bodylanguage,

    its insightful to learn but this is much more effective in application. Try it..

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    Great post MOBLEYC57 ........ All

    this nlp stuff is in a book I read called 'Sales Majic' by Kerry L Johnson and it is very effective.
    Flash1

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    Quote Originally Posted by seduceme
    BUT(you knew

    it was coming), one thing I have to comment on in this text is that alot of it is based on calibrating. Meaning you

    CARE what she thinks of you. Trying to read if she's interested, or attracted.

    Me, I say SCREW THAT

    THINKING! Assume there is attraction and maintain that frame of mind! If you behave like they are attracted to you

    and you maintain that reality they'll soon be sucked into it. And if you dont give a flying * if they like you or

    dont(simply assuming they do) then you come off as strong and manly(read: leading) as possible. That is attractive.

    Furthermore to evolve away from bodylanguage specifics I can add that bodylanguage is just a reflection of you state

    of mind and emotion. What you believe.
    I think this could be effective, as a style... if it's all

    about style. If she's someone who only takes you in skin-deep.

    Style is nice - it's like dessert. It

    won't sustain you long, though.

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    Wink This isn't a technique. It works though.

    It's called active listening. It means taking an active interest in what the other person is saying.

    Especially trying hard to take in the full gestalt of where that person is coming from. It ranges from frustrating

    to infuriating when you're across from a self involved asshole (or ashollette) who isn't bothering; why ? They

    were raised like princes and princesses who could do no wrong ? People exist to provide them with entertainment ?

    They're fucked up on heroin ? Their sole source of information about life comes from music videos ? They think

    their tits or their dick is/are a sufficient source of wonderment and no other conversational exertions are

    necessary ? They only speak a near extinct Turko-Urgic dialect known in three Anatolian sheep herding communities

    ?
    I well remember the most beautiful Moroccan girl, she was moderately insecure, she didn't have much to add

    to the conversation, and how much she opened up when I began to ask her to tell us about what it meant to be a child

    growing up in Morocco, how her early life was so unlike Americans... she was bowled over that someone would want to

    know about her culture, her life, how she was shaped by the events around her as a kid... she was so accustomed to

    being categorized as a beautiful, exotic, slender goddess, which she was, she was not accustomed to being taken

    seriously as a rich source of information about another culture. She had gotten the idea, probably unfortunately all

    too true, that she was expected to hang back and make her date look good. Lucky for her she found a great guy, I

    think they got married and lived happily ever after, or maybe she shot him in a dispute over a couscous recipe and

    she fled back to Tangier to nurse baby camels... life is unpredictable.

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    Most of this is very good, and

    right on target.

    I look up and to the Left if I'm thinking, hardly ever look up and to the right.
    I think that

    might be a L brain, R brain thing.

    The bratty little sister thing can only go so far, so go easy on that until

    you are sure she's interested. I hate to be teased by guys that I don't care for, but once I do care for them, it

    can be fun to an extent.

    Take the lead, be in control of the situation, but DON'T be controlling. Yes ignore

    to an extent, be interested, seemingly not in a sexual sense until you're sure she's interested. One of my

    favorite comments is, "I'm concerned about....." Wow, they're concerned about me, now that's sexy.

    A guy

    with a life is a turn on. Can't stand guys that don't have other things to do and grovel at my feet. Bleh! Not

    attractive.

    A winning smile is one of the best things, and a great sense of humor.
    Just my 2 cents.
    Bindy

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    Now that you mention it, Bindy,

    that part about observing eye movements to detect lying is easily misinterpreted, the way it is phrased. As written:



    "* She looks up and to the left ... normally, mentally conjuring up something - she’s lying

    * She

    looks up and to the right ... normally, she’s recalling an image - she’s not lying

    This is correct for MOST

    people, not all - some of us are "switched" and there're nothing wrong with that, it's just a variant of normal.

    BUT, it is correct if you understand it to mean that as you are facing her, she looks up and to HER left (which

    would be YOUR RIGHT) - that is visual memory. Up and to one's own left = visual recall. Up and to one's own right

    = visual construction. This is usually linked to how people "see" their timeline - past to the left, future to the

    right. But again, there is *lots* of variation in how folks are "wired" and you can only depend on this tidbit if

    you have reliably calibrated with the person first, before using it to detect lying.

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    Surfsup, I really appreciate

    your post about active listening and the Moroccan woman. It is a beautiful thing when you can elicit and honestly

    respond to someone's inner self, how they feel about what truly makes them themselves, instead of falling for

    appearances as it is so easy to do. THAT will get you everywhere you want to go, with women and with people in

    general. Because it is a real human connection, and being truly seen and known and accepted are things that we all

    crave. Thanks for telling us her story.

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    Here's a completely crazy idea

    that could just work:
    Be yourself. Be forthright and open. Try your best to be a thoughtful date and a

    gentleman. LISTEN to what she says.
    Best thing about it is you don't even have to pretend to be anyone else.



    Call me crazy, call me a rebel, but I think I might be on to something here...

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    You are so right Silksand, didn't

    really think of it that way.

    And Satyrboy, I agree, how can you expect someone to like you if you're
    not being

    yourself. I've known plenty of seemingly geeky guys, who turned
    out to be very hot, just because of their

    confidence, sincerity, and warmth.

    Bindy

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    Good points all round - depends if

    youre playing with attention seeking women (usually 9s or 10s on attraction scale) or someone whos going to stick

    around longer than 5 minutes - might be a 6 or 7

    Of course you can get a 10 who is completley loyal as well

    im just generalising above but both approaches work but if youre a walkover whining male in real life and a turnoff

    to most women - being youreself at that stage is a loss making strategy you need to change

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    Quote Originally Posted by satyrboy
    Here's a

    completely crazy idea that could just work:
    Be yourself. Be forthright and open. Try your best to be a thoughtful

    date and a gentleman. LISTEN to what she says.
    Best thing about it is you don't even have to pretend to be anyone

    else.

    Call me crazy, call me a rebel, but I think I might be on to something here...
    You have the

    right idea. It sounds like your wife is a lucky woman.

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    Talking It doesn't hurt to have had rich life experiences....

    in the final analysis you need *content* that is congruent with your level of style.

    I think the person who has traveled widely (let's make a distinction here between *travel*, where you try to

    understand the language, the culture, values, issues of the place you travel to, and *tourism* where the locals

    serve as a stage set, flunkies to bring you drinks, change your sheets, sell you useless crap)... well, lets say the

    person has travelled, he/she has integrated into a foreign culture or two, or mastered a subject that requires no

    small self discipline, had some complex meaningful relations with complex meaningful people who didn't immediately

    offer comforting confirmation to one's pre-existing biases about the way that things are, or should be, or would be

    if God got his self down here and straightened out these heathen bums, and maybe read 10 or 20 difficult books that

    rose well above the standard of trashy bestsellers... yeah, that person is going to have something to say, there are

    dimensions to that person's being that won't be there in another person who does nothing but talk drivel into

    their cell phone and flip impatiently through magazines... the take away lesson is that you have to work hard at

    life if you want to differentiate yourself from the herd... and you don't have to... one may choose to do nothing,

    never grow or expand, be comfortable, self satisfied, and take the easy way out of any problems that come up in

    life. Now, if such a person then decides that their "problem" is a general lack of style they're making what the

    philosophers call an *attribution error*... they attribute their lack of connection to failing to hold the right

    pose, being overweight, ordering the wrong drink... but that's all a great mistake... if someone is basically

    empty, vacuous and they have a pretty lacquered shell of mannered behaviors you can't help but feel weirdness and

    hollowness around this person, like talking into a large empty room where you only hear the echo.... OTOH, you talk

    to a person who has lived a ton, they know stuff *first hand*, they know details about life and people you can only

    know from full sensory engagement, when you talk to this person you feel like there are layers upon layers, each

    depth leads to another depth, you might not find it necessary to attempt to seduce this person, he or she would see

    right though you anyway, so you have no option but to be real...

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    Quote Originally Posted by silksand
    I think this

    could be effective, as a style... if it's all about style. If she's someone who only takes you in skin-deep.



    Style is nice - it's like dessert. It won't sustain you long, though.
    Care to elaborate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by satyrboy
    Here's a

    completely crazy idea that could just work:
    Be yourself. Be forthright and open. Try your best to be a

    thoughtful date and a gentleman. LISTEN to what she says.
    Best thing about it is you don't even have to

    pretend to be anyone else.

    Call me crazy, call me a rebel, but I think I might be on to something

    here...

    Call me even crazier but what about changing yourself, your inner core to a more

    attractive one? Thus you never need to put on an act, no need to try to be someone else, no need to try to be

    something.

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    Phero Enthusiast silksand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seduceme
    Care to

    elaborate?
    surf's up just said it; see above - I especially liked the last part:

    "...if

    someone is basically empty, vacuous and they have a pretty lacquered shell of mannered behaviors you can't help but

    feel weirdness and hollowness around this person, like talking into a large empty room where you only hear the

    echo.... OTOH, you talk to a person who has lived a ton, they know stuff *first hand*, they know details about life

    and people you can only know from full sensory engagement, when you talk to this person you feel like there are

    layers upon layers, each depth leads to another depth, you might not find it necessary to attempt to seduce this

    person, he or she would see right though you anyway, so you have no option but to be real."

    This is so

    refreshing to read here!

    Style/content: If you have great content (which requires living fully, honestly,

    deeply) you will have little need to study style, in order to connect with others on the same level.

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    Allright i got ya, but still

    even if your style is to assume attraction/likability in others then its easier done with something to back that up

    with, say experience and knowledge?

    I know people who have lived life, gone through hell and back but lack

    social skills. Then I know people who are socially skillful and can bullshit to the break of dawn without really

    having experienced anything in life.

    The word youre looking for would be incongruecy. The wierdness or

    hollowness is something socially intelligent people feel and pickup on when a person is being incongruent. Fake it

    'til you make it, but by all means make it!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by silksand
    Style/content:

    If you have great content (which requires living fully, honestly, deeply) you will have little need to study style,

    in order to connect with others on the same level.

    Disagree, then youre limited to people 'on

    the same level' and the more you live life the more limited your targetcrowd will be. Just because you are

    experiencing things doesnt necessarily mean they are beneficial for your socialskills.
    For example lets say you

    experience a wonderful life, and then share them with new people, you might come of as a braggart, someone who is

    flaunting their experiences making their hopeful friends feel insecure, inferior and jealous. Not a very good

    outcome no? Connection is achieved through rapport, rapport is established with people who share

    commoness(spellcheck?) towards one another.

  28. #28
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfs_up
    in the final

    analysis you need *content* that is congruent with your level of style. I think the person who has traveled widely

    (let's make a distinction here between *travel*, where you try to understand the language, the culture, values,

    issues of the place you travel to, and *tourism* where the locals serve as a stage set, flunkies to bring you

    drinks, change your sheets, sell you useless crap)... well, lets say the person has travelled, he/she has integrated

    into a foreign culture or two, or mastered a subject that requires no small self discipline, had some complex

    meaningful relations with complex meaningful people who didn't immediately offer comforting confirmation to one's

    pre-existing biases about the way that things are, or should be, or would be if God got his self down here and

    straightened out these heathen bums, and maybe read 10 or 20 difficult books that rose well above the standard of

    trashy bestsellers... yeah, that person is going to have something to say, there are dimensions to that person's

    being that won't be there in another person who does nothing but talk drivel into their cell phone and flip

    impatiently through magazines... the take away lesson is that you have to work hard at life if you want to

    differentiate yourself from the herd... and you don't have to... one may choose to do nothing, never grow or

    expand, be comfortable, self satisfied, and take the easy way out of any problems that come up in life. Now, if such

    a person then decides that their "problem" is a general lack of style they're making what the philosophers call an

    *attribution error*... they attribute their lack of connection to failing to hold the right pose, being overweight,

    ordering the wrong drink... but that's all a great mistake... if someone is basically empty, vacuous and they have

    a pretty lacquered shell of mannered behaviors you can't help but feel weirdness and hollowness around this person,

    like talking into a large empty room where you only hear the echo.... OTOH, you talk to a person who has lived a

    ton, they know stuff *first hand*, they know details about life and people you can only know from full sensory

    engagement, when you talk to this person you feel like there are layers upon layers, each depth leads to another

    depth, you might not find it necessary to attempt to seduce this person, he or she would see right though you

    anyway, so you have no option but to be real...
    Nice post! Lately I have also been trying to provide a more

    real alternative to "seduction theory" here. Let's not kid ourselves. It depends on who you really are, and how you

    relate as a person. That is the whole basis for it all. If you can't get it on that level, you can't get it.



    You don't want to just attract idiots who can't see beyond your game. But this is the consequence of being

    "game-based".
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

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    Quote Originally Posted by seduceme
    Disagree, then

    youre limited to people 'on the same level' and the more you live life the more limited your targetcrowd will be.

    Just because you are experiencing things doesnt necessarily mean they are beneficial for your socialskills.
    For

    example lets say you experience a wonderful life, and then share them with new people, you might come of as a

    braggart, someone who is flaunting their experiences making their hopeful friends feel insecure, inferior and

    jealous. Not a very good outcome no? Connection is achieved through rapport, rapport is established with people who

    share commoness(spellcheck?) towards one another.
    This is a confusing post to me. Someone with great content

    won't come across lame like that. It's not just about travelling.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 03-29-2005 at 12:34 PM.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis
    Nice post!

    Lately I have also been trying to provide a more real alternative to "seduction theory" here. Let's not kid

    ourselves. It depends on who you really are, and how you relate as a person. That is the whole basis for it all. If

    you can't get it on that level, you can't get it.

    You don't want to just attract idiots who can't see

    beyond your game. But this is the consequence of being "game-based".

    In a sense that's also

    settling for your level of sexuality in the hierarchy of human mating. There are guys who get laid, laid alot, and

    with highstatus stunning looking women. Then there are alot of guys who dont get laid at all.

    So if you feel

    like simply accepting your position without striving to be better, get better or have better circumstances sexually

    thats fine by me. But if youre not , then shape up and transform, evolve.

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