What skill can do

[Traggard]

People on this

board spend a lot of time testing different pheromone ratios, but often not enough time to develop their skills with

women. If you are not capitalizing on the hits you get they are of limited use. Even better – you do not have to

relay on hits at all in order to lay women.

Some time ago I met up with a really good player and saw him

picking up girls with ease in a club. His looks were normal, except that he was dressed really cool. Seeing him work

the club was almost surreal. He could go up to a hot looking girl who was already talking to a guy that looked much

better then him, having the girl totally ignoring the guy she was previously talking to within 30 seconds, and make

out with the girl a few minutes later. Basically, before seeing that I did not even think that things like that were

even possible.

Did he succeed with every single girl he approached? No, of course not. But the thing is –

he was totally unfazed no matter what happened, he honestly believed that if a girl were not interested it was her

lost, no matter how much hotter then him she was. His skill came down to 6 parts:

1) Believing that he

was the prize in the interaction. No matter how hot the girl was she had to prove to him that she was cool enough to

have a chance with him. The women sensed this and they started to chase after him, not the other way around.



2) His body language was perfect; he was completely relaxed, laid back and took up a lot of space.



3) He was touching the women almost as soon as he started talking with them. Often he laid his hand around the

women almost at the same time as he started talking with her. Before seeing this I would have thought that being

this physical this early would have made the women uncomfortable, but instead they really enjoyed it.

4)

If she said or did something that he did not like he would ignore her (while remaining in the same place) and

blatantly check out other girls. Often the girl he was with would then start to qualify herself to him again,

seeking his approval.

5) He would escalate from being in her personal space, to having his arm around

her, to smelling her hair etc with just a little bit of time between each step. All this while having a casual

conversation at the same time about a neutral topic. If she did not approve he would simply use step 4) until she

started to qualify to him again.

6) Almost every single time he went out he would lay one of the hottest

girls in the club. Of course he had to talk to several chicks before this to find one that was adventures enough and

fun enough, to take home. And these were not “stupid party girls” or some other bullshit excuse guys use it order to

feel more comfortable with their own lack on success. No, these were normal nice women who just happened to look

incredibly hot.

Now if a normal looking guy can achieve this kind off inner strength and skill anyone

can. All it takes is to systematically expand your comfort zone and learn that you, not the hot women you are

talking to, are the prize in the interaction. Another key issue is to understand what success is. Success is not

getting a particular girl. Success is to getting the skills so that you can lay hot women any time you want, without

having to relay on luck. The key to achieving success is rejection. The more rejections you get, the faster you

learn. Many guys are fixated with not screwing up when they talk to a hot woman. I know I was for the longest time.

Instead focus on having fun, make it a sport to make fun of hot looking women when you talk to them. Their reaction

is not what is important, what matter is that you enjoy the process of investigating if the women you talk to is

cool enough to have a chance with you.

[Mungojerry]

Developing your skills and

personality will get you way more women than using pheromones. My best success actually came when I stopped using

pheromones entirely and just focused on the other parts of my game.

However, its not surprising that people

talk about pheromones here, it is, after all, the "pheromone discussion" not ASF or any of the other seduction

forums.

[gfunk]

Superb reading m8! Very well put!



So we should really quit this phero-nonsense right? I'm just kidding

I'd love

to hear more on your rejection-stories. As 've never done that, but I'd love to try it for the fun and learning of

it.

But imagine this, I think I speak for alot of us, the scenary is that you walk up towards a very

hot girl, and who very soon turns out to be of the kind "is tired up of all the attention from guys, so she's cold

and uninteressted, or at least takes more to impress". I mean it might not even be that she is, but this is how it

feels for many guys, and then you just instantly think that it's impossible, and then you don't know what to say

or do, just to get that opening where she would smile and conversate. Do you have any tips? I mean, for many guys

that aren't that aren't that great looking, this is really the scenario with most girls.

Speaking for

myself, I like to apply the phero's and stay really calm and not do anything to get attention, when I'm in the

experimenting phase that is, as I'm right now. Then I'm really able to tell what's really a hit from the phero's

and not my own skills. This in order to get the max dosage achieved, and then wear phero's and again put on my

"player"-suit. I've got fairly good looks, and am quite successful with women without phero's, but the phero's

just works SOO much good for me, and in addittion to my own skills.

[gfunk]

In fact I would seriously

recommend a book called "Superflirt" written by Tracey Cox. Man, this book is fun and easy read, and learns you how

to read and perform body language to really get things happening.

Did you know that there's really easy and

no-noticeable, but yet extremely effective things you can do to get her subconciousness telling her "I'm attracted

to that person" ->you, when you perform it.

That's just one of many many great things she learns you in the

book. Definatley worth the money, I wouldn't want to be without it! In fact me being able to read womens body

language gives me the ability to see when they give "I'm interessted"- signs, when I normally wouldn't have

noticed it. And once you see, then you can work your newly learned skills to get her to do the next signs, and

you're off to success, again

[bronzie]

I once read a quote with regard

to pheromones, it went something like this;

Pickup artists dont need them, Average Frustrated chumps cant use

them...

I agree with this post

In my experience, pheros are effective when ive already picked up the

girl

[Traggard]

But imagine

this, I think I speak for a lot of us, the scenery is that you walk up towards a very hot girl, and who very soon

turns out to be of the kind "is tired up of all the attention from guys, so she's cold and uninterested, or at

least takes more to impress". I mean it might not even be that she is, but this is how it feels for many guys, and

then you just instantly think that it's impossible, and then you don't know what to say or do, just to get that

opening where she would smile and conversate. Do you have any tips? I mean, for many guys that aren't that aren't

that great looking, this is really the scenario with most girls.

This is the wrong mindset. She

has to impress you, not the other way around. Also, it does not matter if she is cold or indifferent - there are at

least a 10.000.000 more hot women you can talk to. Instead feel excited when you get rejected. Each rejection means

more experience. More experience means more skill. More skill means that you will lay more women.

[esk6969]

3) He was

touching the women almost as soon as he started talking with them. Often he laid his hand around the women almost at

the same time as he started talking with her. Before seeing this I would have thought that being this physical this

early would have made the women uncomfortable, but instead they really enjoyed it.

I have done this

exact same thing, and had the exact same experience. When I did it, I had a little "beer courage" in me, but it was

to the point where I was hyper-confident, yet not drunk. This was back in "party days", and was the result of

carefully cultivated practice. It would be better to cultivate this mindset, WITHOUT the use of alcohol.



Anyway, I often did this, and for those who haven't, might want to also do it, under the following context: as a

"wingman" for friends. It's very easy if you figure "hey, it's not for me anyway, so what do I give a shit". In

that case, rejection isn't even possible, but you aren't the one rejected!

This can be a fun bar game to play

with friends. You're hanging out, feeling good about yourself - and you begin a sort of dare/I will if you will/

sort of a game. Often times, I would say "pick one". My friends would be like "huh"?, I'd be like "pick a girl

from the bar, I'll go get her for you". They'd be like "bullshit", but I (in beer-enhanced hyper-confident mode,

again), would just repeat, "pick one". So they would. I'd get up (friend now has terrified look in eyes), walk

over to whatever chick they picked - didn't matter if she was hot or not, with a guy or not - because, again, it

wasn't for me!

So, my approach was usually pretty much the same - it will sound stupid on paper, but

remember, it's all in the execution - just walk up, put my arm around her waist (sometimes, even before she knew I

was there), of course, she'd turn around, and I'd just give 'em the biggest smile, and say "hey beautiful,

what's your name?" Here's the weird thing - not once, not EVER, did I get "screw you, that's my name", or any

other sort of rejection. INVARIABLY, I always got a smile back, along with - their name. After that, I'd usually

launch into some bs about "well Darla, let me ask you something, my buddy at the table over there has been looking

at you all night..." -motion to now-terrified looking buddy "... and he just won't stop talking about you!

I can't get the guy to shut up! (with feigned annoyance, i.e., the cocky/funny approach, etc.) "Will you PLEASE

just come over and say hi to the guy for me, so we can get on with our night?" Failure rate: 0%. Like I said,

nothing special in the approach - it was all in the execution.

BTW, a totally unintended side affect (this only

worked when I truly didn't give a shit about me, and therefore projected the "I don't give a shit" attitude), was

that, usually, the girls I fetched wound up interested in ME. After all, *I* was the one who had the

guts to walk up to them, *I* was the one who projected the right attitude, *I* was the one who initiated friendly,

non-threatening physical contact in-line with the approach, and they recognized that. Of course, if you and your

bar-buddies all learn and practice such a thing together, well then you can shill for each other all night, and

somebody's going to make out ok, for sure.

BTW, for anyone reading this who doesn't already know, almost all

of this stuff can be found on the seduction websites, including the "I am the prize" attitude mentioned above.

Though I am now married with children, I shudder to think of the effectiveness that would be of 'mones combined

with REAL seduction techniques, or if I would have had them available to me when I was younger. And I don't know

about "PUA's don't need 'mones". PUA's don't NEED anything, including women, (because they already have them),

but it seems to me, real winners never deny themselves any possible advantage to win, no matter the endeavor.

[TRock]

I shudder to think

of the effectiveness that would be of 'mones combined with REAL seduction techniques, or if I would have had them

available to me when I was younger.

8 months in the game with a combo of mones that works for me. i'm a

monster in social cirlce, don't introduce me to your sister, wife, or girlfriend. my cold approach game still needs

work but by this time next year my game should be sicker than cancer patients.

[TRock]

for anybody that is interested in

being a pua it's all about the INNER GAME. your inner game will create your outter game. internalizing that you are

better than anybody you meet, that you can fuck any chick you want, that you are a guy that walks around with his

dick smacking the sides of his legs goes a long way. being cocky, subcommunicating you are the prize is an effect of

have a good inner game. most celebrities, athletes, and other successful people are naturally cocky. knowing that

you can get any woman you wants makes you naturally cocky.

[Gmoney]

Old thread I thought I'd bump

as I see alot of the phero newbies running into issues talked about here.

[Pendragon]

Always a good thing to refresh

on other aspects.

Good points about being totally indifferent to the outcome. One point on going up and talking

to a lady is just say "Hi." and wait for a response. At this point its her call on how to respond. If she's

unfriendly then you might have saved alot of time and frustration right there. Or prod a little fruther with "had a

bad day?" or "are you like this to everyone that tries to be nice to you?" Just don't say it in a mean way. More of

a teasing grin tone.

[BGuy20]

I agree with EVERYTHING posted

here. I found that I felt better today with a gel pack on, but I think once the confidence/attitude is started,

that's about 90% of the battle won right there.

[Guy101]

I am really glad that this

subject has been brought up, coz many guys in the forum think that pheromones will perform magic for them, but the

truth is that they help & give you an edge in so many ways. But the main part is the attitude & the best attitude

about a man is his self confidence & being comfortable in his own skin with or without women, with or withour

pheromones.

[Pendragon]

If someone could come up with

a mix like Matt Damon had in Oceans13 I'm sure we'd all like to know about it. Although that seems quite unlikely

and if you did have something like that...would you really let it out?

[idesign]

Whether its pheromones or a

pumped-up "inner game", there's no getting around the fact that you are who you are, and the effect of any mone or

method will not last through nine innings.

That is to say, if you want more than a quickie, sooner or later

you'll be seen for who you really are, and have to stand on that.

Then again, it all depends on your

goals.

Not criticizing anyone or any method, just some thoughts....

Geez, I'm getting old.

[HornyMan]

People on

this board spend a lot of time testing different pheromone ratios, but often not enough time to develop their skills

with women. If you are not capitalizing on the hits you get they are of limited use. Even better – you do not have

to relay on hits at all in order to lay women.

Some time ago I met up with a really good player and

saw him picking up girls with ease in a club. His looks were normal, except that he was dressed really cool. Seeing

him work the club was almost surreal. He could go up to a hot looking girl who was already talking to a guy that

looked much better then him, having the girl totally ignoring the guy she was previously talking to within 30

seconds, and make out with the girl a few minutes later. Basically, before seeing that I did not even think that

things like that were even possible.

Did he succeed with every single girl he approached? No, of

course not. But the thing is – he was totally unfazed no matter what happened, he honestly believed that if a girl

were not interested it was her lost, no matter how much hotter then him she was. His skill came down to 6 parts:



1) Believing that he was the prize in the interaction. No matter how hot the girl was she had to prove to

him that she was cool enough to have a chance with him. The women sensed this and they started to chase after him,

not the other way around.

2) His body language was perfect; he was completely relaxed, laid

back and took up a lot of space.

3) He was touching the women almost as soon as he started talking

with them. Often he laid his hand around the women almost at the same time as he started talking with her. Before

seeing this I would have thought that being this physical this early would have made the women uncomfortable, but

instead they really enjoyed it.

4) If she said or did something that he did not like he would ignore

her (while remaining in the same place) and blatantly check out other girls. Often the girl he was with would then

start to qualify herself to him again, seeking his approval.

5) He would escalate from being in her

personal space, to having his arm around her, to smelling her hair etc with just a little bit of time between each

step. All this while having a casual conversation at the same time about a neutral topic. If she did not approve he

would simply use step 4) until she started to qualify to him again.

6) Almost every single time he

went out he would lay one of the hottest girls in the club. Of course he had to talk to several chicks before this

to find one that was adventures enough and fun enough, to take home. And these were not “stupid party girls” or some

other bullshit excuse guys use it order to feel more comfortable with their own lack on success. No, these were

normal nice women who just happened to look incredibly hot.

Now if a normal looking guy can achieve

this kind off inner strength and skill anyone can. All it takes is to systematically expand your comfort zone and

learn that you, not the hot women you are talking to, are the prize in the interaction. Another key issue is to

understand what success is. Success is not getting a particular girl. Success is to getting the skills so that you

can lay hot women any time you want, without having to relay on luck. The key to achieving success is rejection. The

more rejections you get, the faster you learn. Many guys are fixated with not screwing up when they talk to a hot

woman. I know I was for the longest time. Instead focus on having fun, make it a sport to make fun of hot looking

women when you talk to them. Their reaction is not what is important, what matter is that you enjoy the process of

investigating if the women you talk to is cool enough to have a chance with you.

This is

bullshit.

I know how to drive a porsche, but it doesn't mean I'll ever enter a world championship race and

win.

In theory it looks good but less than 1/1000 of 1 percent of men will be able to carry it

out.

This is all assuming men are in their prime. At 40 or 50 the odds go even further down.

Maybe

this magic layer was tall. Maybe he was suave. Maybe he had nerves of steel. Maybe he was a NATURAL don Juan who

was just looking for the right moves. Maybe he had money, or a nice car. Maybe he had a nice apartment close by.

Maybe this was in a city where people mingle easily. Maybe this , maybe that. But while possible I doubt it's

highly probable.

The right moves can enhance ones luck. So if you can lay a woman once every year or so, you

may be able to pull off 2..

But it won't turn a man into Don Juan Demarco banging a new woman every night.

A man like that is better going to a massage parlour and getting laid and massaged every night by a new woman. Why

even bother with skills? For $100 you can get a bodyslide or even more , and spare yourself and the women of any

emotional havoc :-)




HM

[Gmoney]

Maybe he was just confident...

[theman03]

This is

bullshit.

I know how to drive a porsche, but it doesn't mean I'll ever enter a world championship race and

win.

In theory it looks good but less than 1/1000 of 1 percent of men will be able to carry it out.

This is

all assuming men are in their prime. At 40 or 50 the odds go even further down.

Maybe this magic layer was tall.

Maybe he was suave. Maybe he had nerves of steel. Maybe he was a NATURAL don Juan who was just looking for the

right moves. Maybe he had money, or a nice car. Maybe he had a nice apartment close by. Maybe this was in a city

where people mingle easily. Maybe this , maybe that. But while possible I doubt it's highly probable.

The

right moves can enhance ones luck. So if you can lay a woman once every year or so, you may be able to pull off

2..

But it won't turn a man into Don Juan Demarco banging a new woman every night. A man like that is better

going to a massage parlour and getting laid and massaged every night by a new woman. Why even bother with skills?

For $100 you can get a bodyslide or even more , and spare yourself and the women of any emotional havoc

:-)




HM

I have to disagree with you here. Now a days it seems that the domino effect is stronger

than ever and this technique does work well because it is very similar to how I run my social life in the club/bar

scene. Slight differences are that I don't touch as much nor will I ever kiss in a public setting, bar or club.



This weekend, even though its monday, i'm going to focus more on my touch points more than anything else. I

think a touch closer to the lower back instead of closer to the side of the hip when giving a kiss hello will send a

different type of message for myself, as one of a friend to one of a lover.

but then again i could be over

analyzing it because I really don't have trouble getting attention from women. However there is always room for

improvement. =]