What to do if you become too cocky

[bjf]

Back on topic

though, I still maintain, passive behaviour is not masculine

I agree, but words are just labels,

right? So does it really matter much?

[sprayit]

Of course it doesn't really

matter, it's just banter. What I find interesting is the concept that a male might promote and defend sympathy and

apology, but resent the idea that such behaviour is not fundamentally masculine.

Indeed it might just be

about labels, but those labels could, and seem to influence the ease by which a person might feel comfortable about

certain behaviours more so than the virtues of the behaviours themselves.

If it is all just about marketing,

then most of us could simply be end consumers of behavioural labels, despite thinking we're making behavioural

decisions for ourselves. Just thinking aloud. No problem, good karma!

[belgareth]

Sprayit,

you seem to be

talking in circles here. First you tell Silver that if she wants those attributes she should get a gay boyfriend

then you tell us that they are fine in a man, that thinking otherwise is outdated thinking. Maybe I'm slow but you

seem to have dragged the thread of topic pointlessly. Is there some point to your arguments?

[DrSmellThis]

Well, this thread is at least

educational.

Women grow cold when they find out or sense you're just not attracted to them (Thoroughly

mastering and controlling your attraction, or seeming neutral, is very different), so calling them "ugly" -- if she

might think there's a grain of truth -- is absolute death for any romantic/sexual chances. Making them think you

might be untrustworthy is also death, for obvious reasons. Only if she were 110% that you were only joking, that you

meant less than none of it; could you have any chances. And then she'd still think you're not funny. Making

reparations to the damage would be tricky, to say the least. You'd have to be very smart about it. I do not know

the situation well enough to be able to say whether it's possible.

Looks like we need more work on the funny

part.

[Gegogi]

Sheesh Mr. Spray, yo sure 'nough

loves ta changed yo mind! Yeeeeeeee Haaaaaaa!

[phersurf]

You wouldn't

apologise for a mistake during the initial courtship?

Not for any cocky funny thing I said, even if

she took it as being slightly insulting. Although that's never happened to me since I NEVER insult something

physical about her that she can't change.

If I spilled something on her or anything like that, sure I'd

appologize and pay for cleaning.

[belgareth]

Not for any

cocky funny thing I said, even if she took it as being slightly insulting. Although that's never happened to me

since I NEVER insult something physical about her that she can't change.

If I spilled something on her or

anything like that, sure I'd appologize and pay for cleaning.

You and I have very different mindsets

then. If I honestly offend somebody, I consider it good manners to apologise. If somebody thinks less of me for it,

that's not my concern as I was doing what I felt was correct.

Another difference is your contention that men

only take women out they want to sleep with. That may be true for some, for others it isn't.

[phersurf]

You and I have

very different mindsets then. If I honestly offend somebody, I consider it good manners to apologise. If somebody

thinks less of me for it, that's not my concern as I was doing what I felt was correct.

Another difference

is your contention that men only take women out they want to sleep with. That may be true for some, for others it

isn't.

When I'm on the first couple of dates I'm trying to create attraction. One of the ways I do

this is to use cocky/funny. Women don't like wussies. Busting her balls in a humerous way tells her that I won't

be a clingy, needy guy. When I'm being c/f I get the following reactions from women, "I can't believe you just

said that!", "oh, you're a jerk!" and others, all delivered with a little chuckle and usually followed by a hit to

my shoulder. There is nothing to appologize for!

The only reason, initialy, that a man asks out a women is

because he is attracted to her for some reason or another. He may think to himself, "she would make a good wife,

mother and comapnion". But the bottom line is his DNA wants to replicate and it uses the lymbic brain to control the

man's desires to do so. Your parental, religious, societal, etc. programming my tell you that you have "more lofty"

reasons for taking her out, but the bottom line is, when it comes to male/female relations, we're controlled by an

ancient part of our brains.

When I say that men only take women out that they want to sleep with, I'm not

saying that all they want to do is sleep whith them or they want to sleep with them that night.

Obviously if

this woman is a freind and will never be anything more, taking her out has a totally dynamic (because your lymbic

brain isn't attracted to her).

Read the following books if you want to learn more about this extremely

fascinating stuff.

The Red Queen : Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature - Matt Ridley

The Selfish

Gene - Richard Dawkins

The Mating Mind : How Sexual Choice Shaped the Evolution of Human Nature - Geoffrey

Miller

Sperm Wars - Robin Baker

[Gegogi]

"The only reason,

initialy, that a man asks out a women is because he is attracted to her for some reason or another. He may think to

himself, "she would make a good wife, mother and comapnion". But the bottom line is his DNA wants to replicate and

it uses the lymbic brain to control the man's desires to do so."

Oh comeon! That's extremely

simplistic and does not represent all or even most men. I enjoy dating women I have no intention of having sex with.

Getting to know them as a person is extremely rewarding and enriching (I have few male friends). I also have sex

with women I have no intention of dating or being friends with. For me, that's the perfect combo, i.e., love slave

and refined companion/friend. Some guys prefer transgender "women." Some even prefer post-op transgender women. Some

guys like men. Love, sex 'n dating ain't just about replicating DNA. It's about deepening your human experience,

pleasure and companionship, but not necessary all at once in the same woman. I have no children and don't plan to

make any...

[phersurf]

Please reread what I

said!

Your rational, thinking necortex will come up with all sorts other reasons to go out with certain

women. But, the women you're attracted to, you're attracted to because of your lymbic brain. There have been tons

of experamints down showing that when men or women are attracted sexually to anyone (no matter what tha sex) there

is a drastic increase activity in the lymbic brain.

Again, your rational brain tells you that love and sex is

more than about replicating DNA. I'm never planning on haveing kids either, but I understand I'm still controled

by the evolutionary drive to reproduce. That's why sex feels good, to make sure humans reproduce.

please

read some of the books I recomned, you'll understand the concepts I'm trying to fumble with much better.

[belgareth]

When I'm on

the first couple of dates I'm trying to create attraction. One of the ways I do this is to use cocky/funny. Women

don't like wussies. Busting her balls in a humerous way tells her that I won't be a clingy, needy guy. When I'm

being c/f I get the following reactions from women, "I can't believe you just said that!", "oh, you're a jerk!"

and others, all delivered with a little chuckle and usually followed by a hit to my shoulder. There is nothing to

appologize for!

That kind of dodges the point. To repeat, if I honestly offend somebody, I'll apologise.

The cocky funny has never appealed to me but that may be just my personality. Mostly I get an urge to do that type

bodily harm.

My mouth tends to run away when I am having fun and I can usually make almost anybody laugh

without shooting at them. But, as you may have noticed, I have an attitude problem anyway. I don't especially care

who likes the way I think or act. If I think of something funny to say, I'll probably say it but am usually pretty

careful of other's feelings.

The only reason, initialy, that a man asks out a women is because

he is attracted to her for some reason or another. He may think to himself, "she would make a good wife, mother and

comapnion". But the bottom line is his DNA wants to replicate and it uses the lymbic brain to control the man's

desires to do so. Your parental, religious, societal, etc. programming my tell you that you have "more lofty"

reasons for taking her out, but the bottom line is, when it comes to male/female relations, we're controlled by an

ancient part of our brains.
Obviously if this woman is a freind and will never be anything more, taking her out

has a totally dynamic (because your lymbic brain isn't attracted to her).

This may explain it, I

haven't 'dated' in more than twenty years. I met my girlfriend shortly after my wife and I seperated while I was

doing a lecture. She was part of the audience and joined the prof, myself and several others for pizza and beer

afterwards. The lecture had gone well, I was wearing mones, in a good mood and a couple beers loosened my tongue.

She ended up beside me somehow and everything just kind of followed from there. I emphatically was not looking for

any relationship at that time, being too busy feeling sorry for myself. Jess later told me I was horribly

uncooperative about the whole thing.

What works for each person is going to be something they can make a part

of themselves. I'd feel like an idiot if I tried to be what you guys describe here. It isn't a part of my nature

to be that way or to pretend I am anything but what I am.

[Gegogi]

"'m never planning on

haveing kids either, but I understand I'm still controled by the evolutionary drive to reproduce. That's why sex

feels good, to make sure humans reproduce."

Some guys prefer to do without women all together.

Wacking off is the sole extent of their productive experience. Heck, wacking off is usually better than intercourse.

Nevertheless, I'm often attracted to women intellectually or artistically that would never get a hardon outta me.

Yes, we hang out all the time and I just think of them as one of the boys. Sexually they don't do a thing for me or

are even replusive.

[DrSmellThis]

Great points, Gegogi, as

usual. Bel too. And a shout out to Holmes, Silver, and AKA.

And bjf just needs to be took to the hole.

[Silver]

I think you are once again

confusing cocky and insulting. I like cocky guys, but cocky means that they act like they think THEY are awesome.

Even if they think they are more awesome than they really are, this sort of behaviour is fine by me, and sometimes

appealing. However, insulting is something different altogether and never acceptable.

An example, for those who

don't believe that women find apologizing attractiveness, and to illustrate the difference between cocky and

possibly offensive behaviour, even if it's not insulting: I was chatting with this guy that I was fairly attracted

to online, when the conversation took a more risque turn. He was being ridiculously cocky, chatting and laughing

and teasing me to no end in that sort of "you sure you don't want some of this?" way. I was half egging him on,

half teasingly pushing him away. The trick in teasing him? Not saying "no i don't want any because you're ugly"

but rather "haha, you wish" or "i think I'll pass, but I'll keep the offer in mind" sort of thing.

Now, at

one point he sort of crossed a line with me, which I won't tell you about because it's unimportant. I kind of got

a little quiet. I wasn't really offended because I know he didn't mean to offend me at all, that was quite

obvious, and in fact I could tell the only reason he accidentally crossed it was because he liked me. I got over it

really fast, but nevertheless he noticed, and quickly apologized, saying that he didn't want to offend me, he's

sorry if he went overboard, next time just smack him overthehead if he goes near doing it again, and so forth and so

on. It really warmed me. It just showed what a great all around person he is, how he's concerned about the

feelings of others, and how he's not afraid to apologize for possible mistakes. Even though it was something that,

for me, he did not really need to apologize for, he did because for some people it might be offensive and he wasn't

sure where I fell. This earned him MAJOR points in my book.

Now, going on to address some of the other

points:

I don't believe that apologizing is passive behaviour. You have to go out of your way to apologize to

someone...letting it slide, ignoring something potentially hurtful and insulting, these both seem to me much more

passive actions than being strong enough to admit that you're wrong.

Nor do I believe passivity is feminine.

Personally, I find that statement fairly insulting, although I know you didn't mean it that way. I could quote a

thousand literary references, a million historical references, and dozens of personal experiences to argue the

opposite, in fact, but perhaps the most fitting would be a quote from My Big Fat Greek Wedding: "The man is the head

of the house, but the woman is the neck; she can turn the head any way she wants."

Now, the man is not always

the head, and the woman not always the neck. But most of the time, the societal prejudice that passivity is

feminine comes from an inaccurate analysis of situations where the man is the head and the woman is the neck. We

women are just as, if not more, often the agressive ones, but when we are, we are not flashy and attention-grabbing.

We are agressive in getting the things we want done, regardless of the image. I am not one of those burlap wearing

feminazis... in my opinion, it is good to be Woman

~Silver

Oh and, by the way, can someone tell me what

"took to the hole" means, per say? Whatever it is, I'm sure bjf deserves it, but I'm curious.

[Gegogi]

Sliver, I've only heard "took to

the hole" used in relationship to scoring in basketball:

"Hill received an Annie Obrist pass which created

a 2 v 1 break that Hill took to the hole with her left hand. An Albertson player put a body on Hill and got her hand

on the ball but there was no call by the referee as time expired."

But I guess it's meaning is expanding.

[sprayit]

Belgareth: “First you tell

Silver that if she wants those attributes she should get a gay boyfriend.”

I did not tell her to get a

gay boyfriend, I said get a gay man, and I was kidding. You were supposed to be able to tell by the nature of the

way it was said in relation to the rest of the post: 'Get a gay man girlfriend'

Perhaps the language

appeared identical in it's seriousness to the rest of my post despite efforts to make the phrase appear isolated in

a slang-like tone. A good illustration of how easy it is to draw confusion to light hearted play! Never mind, now

you know. Your flowers are in the post, please forgive me. Sorry I do go on don't I? Good karma!

Phersurf:

“Your rational, thinking necortex will come up with all sorts other reasons to go out with certain women. But,

the women you're attracted to, you're attracted to because of your lymbic brain.”

Hear hear!! Endless

high level intellectual justifications for what is essentially primal, low level instinct. Arousal and interest in

women is autonomic, not to mention our obvious physiological responses. Men are DNA sprayers, and designed so. Just

so happens that sexual anticipation too is pleasurable; it has to be, else we'd never stay interested enough to

copulate.

Gegogi: “Wacking off is the sole extent of their productive experience. Heck, wacking off is

usually better than intercourse.... Yes, we hang out all the time and I just think of them as one of the

boys.”

Whacking off is done fantasising about actual possibility (thoughts, porn etc). Intercourse is

consummation of the opposite sex, fulfilment of purpose. What other ultimate biological function does the opposite

sex serve? Men will wack off to pictures of bare genitals and breasts, but not have sexual intercourse to pictures

of sexy hands... (one simply simulates the other, but th underlying drive is the same) . Sure you aren't attracted

to all women, nobody suggested you were meant to be. Men must be able to make low-level worthiness determinations

regarding who deserves their seed, as do women.

[sprayit]

Silver: “I was half egging

him on, half teasingly pushing him away. The trick in teasing him? Not saying "no i don't want any because you're

ugly" but rather "haha, you wish" or "i think I'll pass, but I'll” keep the offer in mind" sort of

thing.

Of course, it's called being a **tease, not that you're being called that by me. Women do this to

avoid being ostracised in circumstances where they're often uninterested in pursuing serious sexual relations,

whilst keeping the male interested. Women know that to state sex will not be forthcoming, will probably lead to the

male losing a significant level of interest in her, so she plays along in a misleading fashion.

Essentially,

it's most often a humoursome brush off to serious sexual proposal. In modern society, it needs to be this way, else

all the men would simply avoid all the women who made it clear they weren't sexual; to tease is to suggest to the

guy: “Not now, but hey, maybe later.”

It's just so simple to rationalize. Asexual women get far

far less contact with males. Hence the flirting, and the makeup (a blushed face, depicting a constant state of

female arousal), all designed to cause male sexual interest, which often results in the guy whacking off at home in

anticipation of the real thing next week – which will probably not happen.

Silver: “I got over it

really fast, but nevertheless he noticed, and quickly apologized, saying that he didn't want to offend me, he's

sorry if he went overboard, next time just smack him overthehead if he goes near doing it again, and so forth and so

on. It really warmed me.”

Sounds to me he felt frustrated that his masculine wiles were producing

disatisfactory result. What warmed you, is the notion that he may be a special man, a wonderous mutation of nature,

whose primary motivations are not sexual. Yeah right, (but hey you gotta dream). Still, such inaccurate portrayal no

doubt earns “MAJOR POINTS” and appeals to fantasy.

Silver: “I don't believe that

apologizing is passive behaviour. You have to go out of your way to apologize to someone...letting it slide,

ignoring something potentially hurtful and insulting, these both seem to me much more passive actions than being

strong enough to admit that you're wrong.”

To suggest 'self-wrongness' in light of present

company's 'apparent-rightness' is a submission to the present company. The only active element here, is him

wrestling with his ego in the process to satisfy the person to whom he is submitting.

Silver: “Nor do I

believe passivity is feminine. Personally, I find that statement fairly insulting”

Respectfully Silver,

you seem to be insulted rather often, or at least rather easily. Have you considered the possibility that this may

be a coping mechanism of yours, or that you might have some sort of entitlement complex?

Silver: “Now,

the man is not always the head, and the woman not always the neck.”

In marital situations, where the

wife rations the sex, I'd say you have a good point. She has a monopoly afterall! I suppose withholding sex from a

man who by virtue of marital agreement, he has no contractual option to seek it elsewhere. This could indeed be

considered forceful on the part of the wife, and maybe even aggressive? Interesting stuff.

[bjf]

To everyone, when spray it is talking

about apologizing being feminine, he is equating it to submission/passiveness. We can talk about how much strength

it takes to make an apology, but forget the process, think about what is ultimately being done: you are

accepting the circumstances rather than keep on fighting.

In sex, the woman is

accepting/receiving/submissing, the male is being active, penetrating. That is not to say women are hopping

around the bed and such, blah blah blah, but I hope you can see why accepting is equated with submission, while

penetrating is equated with imposing/being active. Again, we are not talking about the decisions or processes of

getting there, because we all know the woman is the one who controls sex and decides to submit, we are just

talking about the physical act and the verbs being assigned to the different genders.

This is why in

jail, as DST no doubt can tell you , only the guy taking it up the butt is gay or femine (being made

someone's bitch). The male having sex with another male (certainly a gay act) who is penetrating (active) the

passive guy is thought to be completely masculine and hetero, however.

I read a book about the history of

repression in argentina, and the author argued it the goverment tried to feminize the nation to have control. They

argued that the widespread torture of citizens was their way of feminizing them, because in torture one is imposing

their will/active (masculine) on a victim who is being forced to submit (feminine). They were penetrating their

ideas on citizens who had no choice but to accept. It was the rape of a nation.

So anyway, if we call acts

of submission feminine, then apologizing is a feminine act. That is not to say there is anything necessarily wrong

with a submissive or feminine act, although some people tend to equate feminine as meaning weak, probably because we

call weak people feminine so often. It is just about the relationship between the apologizer and the apologee, and

spray it argued that apologizing was accepting circumstances and not trying to impose your will to change them, thus

pegging the female role on the apologizer.


G got it right on taking it to the hole, btw. Unfortunately,

no one can take me to the hole, the basket or the butt.

[a.k.a.]

You can couch the argument in terms

like “masculine/feminine” or “passive/aggressive”, but these are just value judgments. The bottom line is that

anybody that can’t or won’t apologize when they are wrong will never grow as a person and probably won’t get far in

society.

[Silver]

Silver: “I was

half egging him on, half teasingly pushing him away. The trick in teasing him? Not saying "no i don't want any

because you're ugly" but rather "haha, you wish" or "i think I'll pass, but I'll” keep the offer in mind" sort of

thing.

Of course, it's called being a **tease, not that you're being called that by me. Women do this to avoid

being ostracised in circumstances where they're often uninterested in pursuing serious sexual relations, whilst

keeping the male interested. Women know that to state sex will not be forthcoming, will probably lead to the male

losing a significant level of interest in her, so she plays along in a misleading fashion.

Essentially, it's

most often a humoursome brush off to serious sexual proposal. In modern society, it needs to be this way, else all

the men would simply avoid all the women who made it clear they weren't sexual; to tease is to suggest to the guy:

“Not now, but hey, maybe later.”

It's just so simple to rationalize. Asexual women get far far less contact

with males. Hence the flirting, and the makeup (a blushed face, depicting a constant state of female arousal), all

designed to cause male sexual interest, which often results in the guy whacking off at home in anticipation of the

real thing next week – which will probably not happen.

Silver: “I got over it really fast, but nevertheless he

noticed, and quickly apologized, saying that he didn't want to offend me, he's sorry if he went overboard, next

time just smack him overthehead if he goes near doing it again, and so forth and so on. It really warmed me.”



Sounds to me he felt frustrated that his masculine wiles were producing disatisfactory result. What warmed you, is

the notion that he may be a special man, a wonderous mutation of nature, whose primary motivations are not sexual.

Yeah right, (but hey you gotta dream). Still, such inaccurate portrayal no doubt earns “MAJOR POINTS” and appeals to

fantasy].

First off, you can be a tease even when you're interested. I'm a tease, and I know it, and

I'm proud of it. However, I don't tease guys when I'm not interested, because that would be leading him on.

This particular guy I was, and still am, very interested in. In fact, he is the one guy that I am most interested

in right now, with the possible exception of Eric Bana mm mm good. However, I was uncomfortable with things going

to fast in some areas. In fact, not only was I uncomfortable, I was also afraid that if I let it go too far I would

be considered 'easy'. This in no way meant that sexual contact would not be forthcoming...just not yet.



Secondly, I have no illusions that his primary motivations at this point were probably sexual. He's a 20 year

old male for goodness sake! However, it was indeed comforting to know that he had secondary motivations that were

less sexual. Or, even if he did not, that he would not let this primary motivation of sex get in the way of his

moral values and consideration for others.

Silver: “Nor do I believe passivity is feminine.

Personally, I find that statement fairly insulting”

Respectfully Silver, you seem to be insulted rather often,

or at least rather easily. Have you considered the possibility that this may be a coping mechanism of yours, or that

you might have some sort of entitlement complex?.

I'd first like to point out that this is in no way

respectful. Insinuating that I have an entitlement complex or that I am using a coping mechanism is an uncalled for

insult.

Secondly, when I said that I find that statement fairly insulting, I continued to say that I was not

really insulted because I knew the person who said it did not mean it to be...unlike your previous comment.

However, it IS insulting to women to say that passivity is feminine. Like bjf said, it is true that passivity is

usually equated with femininity, because many times it seems this way. However, to say that passivity is

intrinsically female is a different thing entirely. Correlation and causality are vastly different. Post hoc,

ergo, proctor hoc...after it, therefore, because of it...a statement that is very rarely true.

~Silver

[a.k.a.]

This is why in jail, as

DST no doubt can tell you , only the guy taking it up the butt is gay or femine (being made someone's

bitch). The male having sex with another male (certainly a gay act) who is penetrating (active) the passive guy is

thought to be completely masculine and hetero, however.

This thread should be moved to the humor

section.

[sprayit]

AKA: “You can couch the

argument in terms like “masculine/feminine” or “passive/aggressive”, but these are just

value judgments.”

By stating so, you subtly reveal a lot about your perception of femininity. I made it

quite clear I am not passing judgement, and to the point that I feel as though I am being required to convince the

floor such. The problem here is the floor is, in places, holding assumptions about gender value. Assumptions that

are being applied to my statements. Assumptions I do not share!

Silver: “I was also afraid that if I

let it go too far I would be considered 'easy'. This in no way meant that sexual contact would not be

forthcoming...just not yet.”

As I said, you confirm the notion of “no sex now tiger, but behave

and maybe much later you can.” The dangling of the carrot in this way serves two purposes, 1.) her avoiding

alienation despite lack of immediate sexual interest, or 2.) enjoying the process of carrot dangling itself. In the

case you cite, it's likely you are engaging both 1.) and 2.) simultaneously.

Silver: “Secondly, I have

no illusions that his primary motivations at this point were probably sexual. He's a 20 year old male for goodness

sake!”

Probably? Probably??? Please. Yet if you are indeed aware his motivations are sexual, why do you

derive “warm feelings” when he backs down, suppresses and apologising for these strong, primal sexual

urges expressed towards you? Do you enjoy telling him “down boy, go fetch, sit, roll over?” Mind

games.

Silver: “I'd first like to point out that this is in no way respectful. Insinuating that I have

an entitlement complex or that I am using a coping mechanism is an uncalled for insult.”

Yeah ok, in

future I'll make less effort in that case. I am not insinuating, I am making observation based on the material

provided. In my opinion, hiding behind insult as often as appears to be the case is the safety net, and protective

barrier against fear of sexual domination. It is the trump card, which any “decent” man will cower in

the face of. It is the absolute power over men, which will obligate them to back down and behave like good little

boys. I mean, just look at the number of times “insult” appears in the respective posts I refer to! Mind

games. They'll work on a lot of guys too, so long as one has beauty on their side.

Let's turn the tables a

little.... I find YOUR feminist manipulation of men's sexuality insulting. To toy with the male libido in such a

fashion is gravely disrespectful. You should be ashamed of yourself! etc etc etc ad infinitum... ROFL

[oscar]

Folks,

Since this thread has

become something of a pissing match dealing more with ethics and psychology than anything that the original thread

poster could have imagined, it's my opinion that it should either be locked or moved to the Open Discussion board.



Oscar

[bjf]

Shouldn't stuff like this be in open

discussion anyway? It never had anything to do with pheromones.

[SirAngel]

Right on!!!

[Gegogi]

"Whacking off is done

fantasising about actual possibility (thoughts, porn etc)."

Yes, it often is. However I can stroke ma

crank and merely enjoy the pleasure and have no thoughts of women or their parts.

[Friendly1]

I listened to

women about how to deal with women for years and it got me more dates with my hand than I care to admit to (I'm

sure some of you can relate).

While women CAN give advice badly, I have seldom actually gotten bad advice

from a woman. They don't always say something the way a man should hear it. But in looking back at the times I

asked close friends to give me advice on how to get a date or whatever, they were trying to tell me certain things

that I now understand better.

Silver was spot on the money with the "be a man, not a boy". What sets a man

apart from a boy (among other things) is the man's willingness to take responsibility for his actions.

Telling

a woman she is ugly is just plain rude, insulting, and in no way cocky, funny, or attractive.

That deal was

blown the moment he clicked on SEND. Only a woman with some real emotional issues would come back to a guy who did

that without apologizing to her.

[phersurf]

Here's a real life experince I

had 2 nights ago.

I met a woman (very hot late 30's) at a Starbucks for some coffee (I met her the previous

week at the mall and got her phone #). I imediately started busting her balls, first on her purse, her shoes, her

behavior (she spilled a little coffee and I said, "I was starting to get into you until you just did that", all in a

sort of playful way. She would get visably upset for a second or two, then start laughing and say things like,

"you're horrible" or "you're a jerk". I've come to the conclusion that women don't call men jerks unless

they're attracted to them, if they really think a man is a jerk, they'll ignore or avoid him.

The best one

was about 45 minutes into our conversation she commented on how by now every other guy she's ever been out with

would have told her how beautiful she is several times. I said that's because all those other guys will tell you

anything to get laid, the subtext being that I'm not seeking approval from her, I'm not impressed with her looks

and I'm comfortable in my own skin. She really got upset when I said this.

If I appologized for any of my

remarks, she would have thought I was a standard wussie, just like all the other guys that ask her out.

By

the end of the night she was all over me, her slightly stuck up "hot girl" persona was gone. We parted ways (without

having sex, even though it was obvious it could have happened) and I told her to call me. This morning she called me

and asked why I didn't call her, I told her I said for her to call me. She asked me out for next week after the

holliday weekend.

If you were to tell me a year ago that I would be acting like this with a beautiful woman

and she'd be loving it (at least her lymbic brain was loving it), I would have thought you were crazy!

So

tell me, should I have appologized?

[SirAngel]

what a great story pherosurf...

That was creating attraction at its best!!! Like you said: girls only call you a jerk or so if they like you and

they want to test you. They wouldn´t say jerk to a 90 jear old or a cripple, now would they? Imagine what its like,

when you call a good mate an a__hole...! It´s just for fun! And yes of course there are exeptions when women mean

it, when they call you a jerk, but thats if you behave like a total loony, psycho, dumbass, jerk...and we won´t go

into that because its obvious...

P.s. In my opinion saying you were sorry, would have made you look weak and she

would have walked all over ya...

STICK WITH WHAT WORKS...

[DrSmellThis]

Giving someone a hard time in

a kidding way, teasing, or "busting their chops," can indeed be effective as a display of an aspect of fun

manliness.

There are elements of mastery, control, unaffectedness, and confidence there; as well as fun.



There was also that "I know, that you know, that I know aspect." It was acknowledged by her that you were

mastering a game.

In many cultures you know someone likes you by how much they tease you (e.g., Irish). In

Japanese culture, being criticised can be a sign that you've been accepted into closeness; or that they feel a

certain closeness. So there is also that factor.

There is a way to do it all without losing the sense of being a

gentleman.

That is all very different from being mean, insensitive, and hurtful in an attempt to manipulate

someone into liking you. That's clumsy, ignorant pubescence; rather than manliness.

Hetero women are attracted

to men.