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  1. #1
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

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    To all the Mad Scientists,

    Like many of you I\'m eagerly awaiting the arrival of my \"Pheromone Chemistry Set\". I thought it might be a good idea to start a thread where aspiring chemists can post their formulas and/or ask the experts for recipe suggestions for a specific need, or to mimic existing products.

    I want to create an additive with the three phero punch of Alter Ego, but SCENTLESS, so it can be mixed with a cologne. As no such product exists, this seems like an appropriate first experiment.

    Looks like
    4 parts A-None,
    3 parts A-Nol,
    2 parts A-Rone will mimic the phero content of AE.

    Rookies should realize that this won\'t BE Alter Ego, but just a mix that imitates its phero ingredients\' ratios. One could then add a carrier oil (such as jojoba),or Ethanol, cologne, or whatever, based on desired outcome.

    You can mix by drops, milliliters, drams, teaspoons, ounces, or bottles, depending upon how much product you\'re willing to risk. I tend to be conservative, and always start with drops.
    Haven\'t figured how much cologne to use yet. Any suggestions?

    Oscar [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

  2. #2
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Wilde one I have the feeling that this combo will be VERY smelly indeed! -Too much stinky -none I reckon.

    How about this:

    1 part - none
    3-4 parts - nol
    2-3 parts - rone
    That is if the -rone is scentless like the -nol. And you know that the -rone enhances the effect of the other two, so if you do need more -none you still got the effectiveness of more -none but without the smelly side-effects. Am I making sense here?

    CJ

  3. #3
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    CJ,

    To my knowledge, there\'s only one person on this board (and perhaps in the world) who thinks that Alter Ego smells bad. I\'ll not mention her name, CJ. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    I\'ve got P10, and considering its heavy A-None content, I don\'t think it\'s nearly as stinky as PI or NPA, which don\'t contain as much A-None. That\'s the beauty of Stone Labs products. So based on the theory that I\'ll be working with better smelling stuff, I don\'t see why this won\'t be a good additive.

    Considering also that I think that NPA, as stinky as it is, actually enhances the scent of some colognes,(APC and Eau D\'Issey being the two I\'ve tried), this recipe sounds good in spite of, or even because of, a potential A-None stink effect.

    Of course I\'ll be trying this recipe out in VERY small quantities, and if it stinks too badly, I\'ll lean toward the ratios that you suggest. Your formula, by the way, is somewhat like women\'s P10 - 5Nol, 3None, 1Rone, 1Cops. So, especially from a woman\'s point of view, your suggestions make PERFECT sense!
    Thanks for your input. [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

    Oscar [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    My suggestion for a formula would be probably as follows for the chemsitry kits, i will probably have some detractors here but here goes.

    3 parts none
    3 parts nol
    4 parts rone

    this in my opinion just mine alone is that rone has some sort of additional affect which hasnt been explored to much. It seems to be an intimate responses

    none = alpha male
    nol = talkative response friend giggles openess etc
    rone = ? intimate and trustworthy capable of getting close to real close. (bonding phero)

    just my suggestion but i seem to get that feedback from alter ego which is probably why some of us report real strong hits from some of the opposite sex and other women arent responsive above the normal response to none and nol.

    As far as the formula goes well its a balanced mix and the rone is the boosting effect.

    So what does everyone think ?? jambat CJ tallcoolone BRUCE importantly whats your view on this one.

  5. #5
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Donaldduck,

    Regarding Androsterone, Stone Labs claims to have spent two years researching the effects of Androsterone used in conjunction with Androstenone and Androstenol.
    In P10 they use A-Rone in a quantity that amounts to 1/10, or 10% of the product\'s overall phero content.
    In AE they use an amount that equals 2/9, or 22% of the total phero count.

    If adding more of this less expensive ingredient would serve to enhance the effects of the far more expensive components, then they surely would have added more. Don\'t you think? [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Your recipe sounds interesting, but you\'re talking about a 40% A-Rone content! That seems excessive, possibly even wasteful given Stone\'s research. I\'m going to be spreading my A-Rone around quite a bit, punching up a number of my phero goodies. So I\'ll probably draw the line at 25% A-Rone to total phero content, at least for now. But far be it from me to discourage ANY sort of experimentation. The whole concept of the kits is, after all, directed toward the \"Mad Scientist\" in us all!

    Good Luck,
    Oscar [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wilde Oscar:
    To my knowledge, there\'s only one person on this board (and perhaps in the world) who thinks that Alter Ego smells bad. I\'ll not mention her name, CJ. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    hmm...well my mom doesn\'t like the smell and she can\'t really explain why, but she acts uneasy about it. my sis doesn\'t like it much either, I kinda like it though

    [ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: deepblue ]

  7. #7
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    deepblue,

    Your Mom and your sister are people who actually (although subconsciously) \"recognize\" you by your natural phero signature. No one is quite so attuned to your phero aura as your Mom, and female siblings are a safe bet to be very close behind.

    The Pheromones in AE short-circuit that identification process. It\'s probably not the smell, but the hyperthalmic confusion (which the smell represents) that they don\'t like. But the scent is what they\'re conscious of, so IT gets the blame.

    I replied to a similar post to yours some months ago. \"Scents and Products....What Works?\" Aug 24, 2001. I did a better job then. I cried as I wrote it. [img]images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

    Oscar [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  8. #8
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Yo!

    Getting back to the business at hand. I found something that might be a valuable addition to some phero kit recipes. It\'s Vegetable Glycerine. It\'s quite thick, at least twice as viscous as AE, clear as water, and totally scentless.

    From the label-
    \"Vegetable Glycerine has a rich oily texture, but is water soluble. Because it is derived entirely from vegetable oil, it is hypoallergenic and safe for all cosmetic purposes. NOW brand Vegetable Glycerine is pure enough to be taken internally. Guaranteed 100% pure. No sugar, salt, preservatives, chemical additives, solvents, or fillers used. 100% Natural.
    Suggested usage- Apply to the skin for cosmetic and other purposes.\"

    A 4oz. bottle was $2.49, and a 16oz. was $6.49. Compared to Jojoba Oil this stuff is an incredible bargain!

    As I\'ve not seen Di-Propylene Glycol anywhere, this looks like a good substitute.
    So an un-scented AE imitation in an oil based format for slow release is now on my agenda.

    Does anyone know of any good reasons NOT to use this stuff? Like shelf life, breakdown, etc.? I did taste it, and there\'s a slight sweetness to it. Hope it won\'t attract BEES!

    I\'m off to find some good Ethanol. Pennsylvania liquor stores stopped selling it. So I\'m headed for Delaware, or maybe Jersey. Are there other brands besides Pharmco and Everclear?

    Oscar [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

  9. #9
    Sadhu
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Yo the only way I can think of getting an AE-like product that is scentless is using AFA and adding some - rone to it! Course it would be alc not oil based like AE.

    What´ya think of that idea?
    CJ [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    The glycerine is a GRS (generally recognized as safe per FDA) material if I remember correctly and would be fine in contact with your skin. I would question how well it will mix with with the pheromones that are supplied in an alcohol base with the kits but maybe that will be OK.

    For other compunds like this, I recommend checking out the field of compounding pharmacy. These are the people who can make up prescriptions the old-fashioned way, by hand, to a doctor\'s specific orders. I found a place in Canada that would sell me all the non-prescription ingredients at reasonable prices including glycols. There are also websites that cover all the basic techniques and procedures for mixing and compounding. Do a search via Google.

    For a long lasting pheromone product, I suggest we mix our pheromone mixture into a molten heavier glycol or cocoa butter so that it becomes a solid as it cools. Limit max temp to about 120 deg F using a water bath to limit evaporation. One could then cast it into small, tightly covered tins then apply a solid dab like a rose attar. It would melt just above body temperature.

  11. #11
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    CJ,

    I reckon that if I\'m using Stone Labs\' stuff, the resulting mix WILL be as scentless as their AFA. But then, they make AE too. [img]images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

    AFA and AE have the same amount of A-None per bottle, yet you think AFA is scentless and AE stinks! Maybe it\'s the scent of one of the E-Oils in AE that you find objectionable. Maybe it\'s the A-Rone!

    Check out my \"Vegetable Glycerine\" post above. Looks like I WILL be able to pull off an oil based, scentless AE, assuming things mix well.

    Whitehall,

    The glycol/cocoa butter suspension concept is a great idea! Pheromone lip balm and moustache wax immediately came to mind. Better get a patent on this idea. It sounds marketable as hell!

    Donaldduck,

    The only good Rone info I\'ve gotten was that statement saying essentially that A-Rone when used in specific proportions in combination with A-None and A-Nol increased perception of attraction by 17%(paraphrased). That\'s from an e-mail I got from Stone that you\'ve probably seen me post before.

    Stone is VERY forthcoming about lots of good info. If you want to contact them do a search for Stone Independent Research. If you don\'t come up with two websites, let me know and I\'ll happily find their web addresses and e-mail or private message them to you. (These are competitive sites so I won\'t list them here.)

    Today has been EXTREMELY fruitful in that a. I found Everclear grain alcohol (95%Alc./190 Proof) at the first liquor store I found in Delaware, and b. My friendly mailman brought my KIT! [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] Oh YES! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

    So it\'s off to the lab!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
    Igor, Hold my calls!
    Oscar [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wilde Oscar:
    Your Mom and your sister are people who actually (although subconsciously) \"recognize\" you by your natural phero signature. No one is quite so attuned to your phero aura as your Mom, and female siblings are a safe bet to be very close behind.

    The Pheromones in AE short-circuit that identification process. It\'s probably not the smell, but the hyperthalmic confusion (which the smell represents) that they don\'t like. But the scent is what they\'re conscious of, so IT gets the blame.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    lol Oscar, thats basically what my mom said to me yesterday. she said how she figured out why she didn\'t like the AE and that it was because it wasn\'t \"my scent.\" she actually commented that she likes my normal scent and I assume that goes along w/ motherly instincts and such. I never really noticed I had a scent, but I guess I\'d be oblivious to it. anyway...I just thought it was interesting how you nailed this on the head

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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    btw, do you think if I were to use something scentless like AFA that she would still notice something?

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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Back to the rone oscar where there any other effects noted with rone, has anyone tried rone just by itself as a stand alone does it have any effect.

    Is there any other publically available info on stones research into rone. ??
    Just after some info on the stuff any help guys ok so if we draw the rone line at 25% that might work then and also it makes sense to use its boost effects and its cheaper to so theres good business scences

  15. #15
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    deepblue,

    Thanks! Makes me feel intelligent, or intuitive , or something.
    This situation practically BEGS for a bit of experimentation.

    Let\'s say you get some new cologne, something you\'ve never worn (one of those 1ml sample tubes should be plenty).
    Get totally clean of pheros, freshly bathed with no residual pheros on clothes.
    Wear ONLY the new cologne to Mom\'s. Ask her if she likes it. (Hopefully she will).
    Next time around wear the same new cologne with AFA . See if the reaction differs.

    I\'d be curious to hear the results. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
    I\'m betting the AFA will cause the same reaction as the AE. Any takers?

    Oscar [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Yeah keep us updated it will be useful with the kits to add pheros to our favourite colonges etc, actually no one will ever know we have pheros on and we can change our fragrences to keep people guessing. Thats an interesting idea actually. I still prefer AE though.

  17. #17
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Meanwhile, back at the laboratory.......

    First of all, the pheros in the kit are certainly NOT stink-free!
    The A-None is about half as stinky as PI or NPA. But that\'s not too bad considering it\'s twice as strong.
    The A-Nol has a sweet, yet slightly stinky aroma to it, definitely the easiest on the nose of the three.
    The A-Rone has nearly the same degree of aroma as the A-None, but different. I\'ve seen its scent described as \"camphor-like\" elsewhere. I\'ll add mint, or perhaps URINAL MINT to the camphor description.
    I don\'t think whipping up an AFA formula with these components will yield a result as scentless as the real thing.

    Additive Experiment #1 WAS a success however.

    I took 4 drops None, 3 drops Nol, 2 drops Rone,(AE\'s phero proportions) and added 45 drops of Eau D\'Issey. That\'s 5 to 1.
    The resulting mix was not unlike my Issey mixes with P10 and NPA. The pheros complemented, and even enhanced the fragrance of the cologne in all cases.
    One thing I noticed, the scent of the A-Rone seemed to be especially pronounced and long lasting, just slightly to the detriment of the total effect.
    Next time I\'ll back the Rone down a bit to the three in an 8 None, 6 Nol, 3 Rone mix.
    And if that doesn\'t flush, I\'ll try cutting it in half at 4 None, 3 Nol, 1 Rone.
    (I\'m using drops so tweaking ratios sometimes means making larger batches. It\'s hard to deliver half a drop!)

    Also tried to make a scentless AE.
    Same 4 drops None, 3 drops Nol, and 2 drops Rone. Added vegetable glycerine, thinned slightly with the mixing alcohol blend from kit. After adding 9 drops of VG mix, very stinky. After 18 somewhat stinky. Ended up adding 45 drops (same amount as cologne) before reaching satisfactory, NEAR scentless level. Decidedly NOT a failure. Just not what I\'d term a resounding success. Still need to re-check for any separating of ingredients.

    Next I\'m going to mix 6 drops None, 3 drops Nol, and 1 drop Rone. P10\'s formula for men. I\'m anxious to see (smell) how the two compare in a side by side sniff test. I mean I\'m REALLY ANXIOUS! [img]images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

    Oscar [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  18. #18
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Yo\' Mama knew your scent from birth - she could have picked out her baby in the hospital nursery by nose, sight unseen. This is established scientific fact.

    Now, the proposed experiment of cologne vs (cologne + exogenous pheromones) will be very interesting - I predict that pheromones are part of the unique scent of her offspring and that she will not complain about just cologne but will take exception to the (cologne + pheromone) combination.

    BTW, thanks for the compliments on the solid pheromone idea but I borrowed from some \"solid\" perfumes I saw at the local health food store.

    I did just realize that cocoa butter has a scent of its own - some people associate it with suntan lotion, some with chocolate, others with Preparation H. So it\'s not neutral. Another issue might be miscibility - the oil/water mixing issue again. An added surfactant might be an enhancement to aid blending.

  19. #19
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Equipment Tips.

    The kit comes with ONE syringe. There\'s an alcohol mix bottle with an eyedropper-type lid which works, and a smaller, empty bottle with an eyedropper-type lid that sucks. The pheros are in open mouth bottles. Period. If this is the only equipment you have, it\'ll be a bitch to avoid cross-contamination of the products!

    Be prepared. If you plan to use the syringe, go out and buy a few more syringes. You\'re not going to want to dip an A-None soaked syringe into your A-Rone. And washing and drying it constantly will get old fast.
    I had 4 eyedroppers and I\'m planning to get a few more so I\'ll have one dedicated dropper per ingredient. (3 Pheros, Alcohol, cologne, glycerine, etc.)

    There\'s nothing worse than setting out to do a job and finding you lack the proper tools!

    One other thing. The Phero bottles are really tiny and quite spillable, especially if you\'re using a syringe. I took one of those foam rubber beer can insulators, put a full un-opened can in it, inverted it and stuck the phero bottle in the 1/2 inch hole in the bottom. This makes it very stable and easy to work with.

    Question-About how many drops are in a milliliter?

    Oscar [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Oscar --

    There\'s 20 drops in a milliliter

    1 drop = .05 ml

    Of course, drop size can vary, so this is approximate.

  21. #21
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Scientist,

    Thanks! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    I have another question. I was just advising MLS on another thread on making an \"Edge-like\" spray. If you were using 95% Grain Alcohol, you WOULD want to cut it with water, right? I had no idea of what ratio to use. Who knows the answer?

    Oscar [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  22. #22
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Kit Owners,

    How would you describe and rate the smells of the pheros in the kit?
    CAN you smell all of them?
    How do the scents compare to other phero products you\'ve had experience with?
    How do combinations of the pheros smell to you?
    Has the kit met or exceeded your expectations, or not?

    Oscar [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  23. #23
    Phero Pro jose's Avatar
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    MAN! I just smelled all three one at a time, I\'m getting a buzz like you won\'t believe. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] Like I\'m getting high, this stuff is potent!!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]
    ANDROSTENONE smells more stronger than Mr.Pheromone 4X concentrate but basically the same thing. The others are more light and you can\'t hardly smell it, if you really take a sniff.
    http://home.earthlink.net/~joselg

  24. #24
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    jose,

    The A-None IS intense. Definitely capable of giving one a buzz! It\'s five times more concentrated than MRP-4x which I also have. But it doesn\'t smell five times as intense. Maybe the oil etc. in the MRP act as catalysts to help amplify its .02% A-None content.

    It\'s said that some people can smell A-Rone, others don\'t. I can smell it BIG TIME! To me its scent is as intense as the A-None\'s, but way different. A shrill camphor-mint combination is as best as I can describe it.
    And the aroma tends to dominate the scent of some mixes

    The A-Nol is subtle by comparison, smelling slightly musky, but sweet as well.

    I\'ve had some minor disappointments with a couple of mixes I\'ve tried, but I now believe that this was due to my not adding enough inert ingredients. This stuff IS more than twice as concentrated as NPA and for some reason that sort of slipped my mind.

    I\'ll try to fix the problems before I start singing the blues! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    Oscar [img]images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

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    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    P10 Experiment.

    Theorizing that Stone Labs makes P10 using the same ingredients that are in the kit, I set out to test the kit stuff against the real thing. I combined 12 drops of A-None, 6 drops of A-Nol, and 2 drops of A-Rone. P10 is 6N, 3L, 1R. Same proportions.

    Took 1 drop of this kit mix and put it on the back of one hand, and applied one drop of P10 concentrate on the other.

    The kit mix was far smellier than the real P10. The strange thing was, it appeared to be that the scent which I recognized as the A-Rone was predominant. There was a bit of A-None\'s signature stink there, but hardly any more pronounced than the A-None aroma of the genuine P10.

    The result was similar to that of the AE-formula-based additive, and the scentless AE oil-based product that I mixed previously. The A-Rone simply took over the scents in every case. I\'m almost ready to believe that Stone mistakenly put their 2mg/ml A-Rone stuff in my little bottle instead of the 1mg/ml formula that should be in there.

    Even if this ISN\'T the case, I\'ll be cutting the A-Rone proportions in any future recipes in HALF just because of the smell.

    Does anyone else who has the kits notice this? Or is it just ME? [img]images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

    Oscar

  26. #26
    PheroWizard oscar's Avatar
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Yo!

    Just stumbled across a few interesting sites worth checking out for recipe ingredients. www.hodgepodgegifts.com has wholesale prices on the best selection of fragrances I\'ve seen. They even have pumpkin pie! www.ScentItYourself.com also has a great variety, including what are evidently knock-offs of popular colognes, perfumes etc. Also books on making perfume. www.Wellingtonfragrance.com is also full of good stuff including Di-Propylene Glycol.

    I found these sites while trying to research a great E-oil by Kuumba called \"Pikaki Lei\". Wonderful scent! Thinking about adding it to some of my VG based AE knock-off.

    Oscar [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  27. #27
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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Geez! I\'m the only one posting anything here. [img]images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

    Found a couple more interesting sources for goods and information relevent to the phero kit-chen.
    www.parfumsraffy.com has a load of good stuff about scent making. A great reference source. Prices on supplies appear a bit high though.
    www.fragrancesupplies.com has some recipes, as well as some things I haven\'t found elsewhere, including beeswax pearls for making lip balm etc., as well as solid glycerine and cocoa butter. Also surfactant.

    In some recipes distilled water is combined with alcohol in 8 to 1 ratios. (To answer an earlier question.) The fragrance oils are dissolved in the alcohol first, and then the water is added.

    Oscar [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Hey how is the forum club reinvention coming along CJ thats been pretty quite actually.

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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Oscar, you\'re not the only one posting.

    I went to visit several of the sites, but shopping for scents on the net is a bit challenging.

    I\'d like something very sandalwoody to replace the original Perry Ellis I was wearing (can\'t find it any more.) But given a list of ingredient names doesn\'t help much. Does anyone have some basic recipes or descriptions of recipes and what they smell like?

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    Default Re: "CHEMISTRY SET RECIPES"

    Some other sites that may be of interest to people. No specific recommendations for their services, just that I find them thought-provoking:

    1) www.4perfumeinfo.com - good links to recipe books, fragrance houses, perfume design, and even buying some colognes, eg. Perry Ellis (Scientist!). Each cologne is listed too, with it\'s top, middle and base notes - have to be happy with that!

    2) www.basenotes.com - still a good one; often updated, and some great interviews and theory links, like what is REALLY in some of the stuff we put on our faces!

    3) www.frangrance-editions.com - good place to visit to get a grip on what are the \'classical\' descriptions of fragrances and their origins. Plus it\'s Australian. (Yay!)

    Not so much on pheromones, but good sites for cologne classification and designer thoughts.

    Enuf said. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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