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  1. #1
    Phero Pharaoh a.k.a.'s Avatar
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    Default Welcome to the Dark Ages

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    "Many American

    youngsters participating in federally funded abstinence-only programs have been taught over the past three years

    that abortion can lead to sterility and suicide, that half the gay male teenagers in the United States have tested

    positive for the AIDS virus, and that touching a person's genitals "can result in pregnancy," a congressional staff

    analysis has found.

    Those and other assertions are examples of the "false, misleading, or distorted

    information" in the programs' teaching materials, said the analysis, released yesterday, which reviewed the

    curricula of more than a dozen projects aimed at preventing teenage pregnancy and sexually transmitted disease.

    "
    ...

    "Nonpartisan researchers have been unable to document measurable benefits of the abstinence-only

    model. Columbia University researchers found that although teenagers who take "virginity pledges" may wait longer to

    initiate sexual activity, 88 percent eventually have premarital sex.

    Bill Smith, vice president of public

    policy at the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States, a comprehensive sex education group

    that also receives federal funding, said the Waxman report underscored the need for closer monitoring of what he

    called the "shame-based, fear-based, medically inaccurate messages" being disseminated with tax money. He said the

    danger of abstinence education lies in the omission of useful medical

    information."

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Dec1.html
    Give truth a chance.

  2. #2
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Back when I was in high school

    they taught the same kind of crap to us. We didn't believe most of it and it resulted in a sceptical attitude

    towards everything they taught. The people who were in school then are some of the ones teaching that trash today.

    You'd think they'd learn from their own experience that the truth, no matter ho you feel about it, is the best

    tool. I sometimes think government officials lie just for the shear hell of it.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  3. #3
    Phero Dude Surreal's Avatar
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    I agree with belgareth.

    The

    goverment gears thier material toward the masses. Well, it does make sense. I think there should be a fear factor

    but not like this. It really turns the 'smarter' kids agianst the gov. (as in believeal)

    "The whole world must learn of our peaceful ways, by force!"

  4. #4
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Why should there be a fear

    factor? Why not the plain truth?
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  5. #5
    Phero Pharaoh a.k.a.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth
    Back when I was in

    high school they taught the same kind of crap to us.
    Guess I’m pretty lucky. I grew up in Montana

    ( which is quite conservative ) and still managed to get a pretty decent sex education.
    We saw pictures of

    syphilis and gonorrhea ( HIV was still unknown ), learned about the dangers of self induced abortions, learned the

    fallacy of some urban myths (e.g.. a Coke douche right after sex will prevent pregnancy), and even got a handout

    that illustrated the proper way to use a condom. The dating films were quite dopey, but at least they acknowledged

    that sexual desires were a normal part of growing up and emphasized that being responsible is an essential aspect of

    adulthood.

    It could have been more informative, (e.g.. I didn’t learn about “double dutch” until I was

    in my thirties) but at least I didn’t receive any misinformation.
    Give truth a chance.

  6. #6
    Newbie Felstorm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth
    Why should

    there be a fear factor? Why not the plain truth?
    I agree.

    One should just accept the fact that kids

    are going to fool around. It's far easier.

    Sex ed sucks as it is, and now they want to turn it into

    "abstinence only" education to make some ideologues feel better. Instead they should be teaching kids, "Hey maybe

    mutual masturbation and oral sex is a better route. You won't risk pregnancy this way." But that would be the

    logical thing to do. As it is, sex ed has been chiseled away at by abstinence advocates so it's little more than

    human anatomy 101. Nothing is ever said about the emotional side of sex education, or how to actually please a

    partner. It's useless because it's sterile. You can't really teach a subject if you only cover half of the

    material to be learned.

    It's not gonna work. Abstinence doesn't work all the time. They had just as much

    teen pregnancy back in the conformist 1950's as we do now. Teens get horny and want to fuck just as much as adults

    do. And they aren't gonna wait to make the significant financial burden by getting married just to get their 15

    minutes of puppylove piggy sex over with.

    If you make something forbidden to do, it just makes it more

    desirable.

    Thing is. Do you want your kids to be as knowledgable about sex as possible? Do you want them to

    use condoms, or ask for birth control to protect themselves? Or would you have them sign silly "abstinence

    contracts" and then screw around behind your back, get knocked up because they didn't know where to get, and how to

    use a rubber or diaphram?

    Abstinence should be taught alongside other material. As it is now. It's just that

    sex ed teachers are not using the fear of damnation, hellfire, STD's and pregancy, to make kids so hung up and

    paranoid about sex that when they get to be adults they'll only screw under the covers with all their clothes on,

    the lights off, bag on their head, while mumbling the "Lords prayer" asking for forgiveness for their sins for being

    created a horny human being that enjoys sex.

    This is more silly "I'm a Christian special interest group and I

    want it my way because that's what my religous beliefs are, and it gives me a false sense of security but endangers

    you and everyone else around you.".

    A Puritan is a person that cannot stand the idea that someone is having

    fun without feeling guilty about it.

  7. #7
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Felstorm
    Your posts would be a

    lot more interesting and easier to agree with if you would leave your dislike for the christians out of it. We've

    already got the idea that you don't like them and blame them for all the problems in this country. So, let's stop

    bashing them constantly. I'm sure that there are some christians on this forum and they probably don't appreciate

    it any more than I do.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  8. #8
    Phero Dude Surreal's Avatar
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    Fear factor?

    I guess the

    truth should be the fear factor.

    The truth is a very scary thing. I new of a guy who wanted so badly to loose

    his virginity that he quicky sleep with a girl. (he was like 18-19) He got herpes from her. Damn that sux. I guess

    that is the fear factor. LMK

    -S

    "The whole world must learn of our peaceful ways, by force!"

  9. #9
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth
    Felstorm
    Your posts would be a lot more interesting and easier to agree with if you would leave

    your dislike for the christians out of it. We've already got the idea that you don't like them and blame them for

    all the problems in this country. So, let's stop bashing them constantly. I'm sure that there are some christians

    on this forum and they probably don't appreciate it any more than I do.
    You are correct it would be easier

    for most to agree with without the religion critique. And if people don't hear the message due to their offense, it

    would be less interesting to them. We have to respect your rules, as you are a moderator.

    On the other hand --

    and maybe I'm not familiar enough with Felstrom's posting; but I don't think in this case he was wrong to bring

    it up.

    Conceptually, you can't separate sexuality from religion and have an accurate cultural/historic view of

    either. Felstrom is "preaching the gospel" -- indeed, the "plain truth" -- when he says it's about people imposing

    religious morality.

    I strongly consider the sex "education" I received through the Catholic religion and

    culture to have been child abuse. I don't say this lightly, and don't consider myself the least bit unique

    there. Recovery has been a life's work.

    Confronting denial brings offense, as human nature dictates.

    Unfortunately, religious people might need to get offended, on the way to waking up to the

    pervasive and acute destructiveness of fundamentalism, and even religion in general; along with its judgmentalism

    and black and white thinking. There is a lot more religion bashing these days, but that's just a natural

    consequence of the bashing that religions have brought upon the human spirit (not that good things haven't come

    from religion). The rage is justified, and the message behind the rage needs to become part of our collective psyche

    for world civilization to move forward.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  10. #10
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surreal
    Fear factor?



    I guess the truth should be the fear factor.

    The truth is a very scary thing. I new of a guy who wanted so

    badly to loose his virginity that he quicky sleep with a girl. (he was like 18-19) He got herpes from her. Damn that

    sux. I guess that is the fear factor. LMK

    -S
    Thanks for clarifying.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  11. #11
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis
    You are

    correct it would be easier for most to agree with without the religion critique. And if people don't hear the

    message due to their offense, it would be less interesting to them. We have to respect your rules, as you are a

    moderator.

    On the other hand -- and maybe I'm not familiar enough with Felstrom's posting; but I don't think

    in this case he was wrong to bring it up.
    You may remember that a while back there was a thread that

    went back and forth about the Jewish and Muslim Faiths. Then there was another one about Muslims specifically. In

    both those threads many nasty things were said, feelings were hurt and a lot of animosity generated. In the end, we

    closed those threads and nearly banned religious discussion altogether but decided that if it could be kept civil

    they would be permited. Felstorm's attacks on religion are right on the line if not over it, in my opinion. If he

    or anybody else wishes to discuss religion in a civilized manner, I'll have no problem with it. But blindly

    attacking one faith is not going to be allowed.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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