OD report

[tiberius]

Definitely let the guy know as

soon as possible and politely as possible that you are interested in him romantically...otherwise wearing the

copulins around him despite whatever you are actually saying/doing his mind will be else where.

[Felstorm]

I know I'm getting

results/reactions/hits or whatever you want to call them, unfortunately they are not the ones I want.

Yeah,

No amount of pheromones will help you Celtic, because your personality and female seeking habits are out

of balance.

Way out of balance.

The first step to changing this is recognition. You've done that. From

what I've gathered, reading your posts, you snap at any little perceived trespass. Gotta cut that out man. It's

one thing to not accept second rate treatment from other people, and another to OD on pheros deliberately and go

looking for harsh reactions.

From all accounts of your behaviour, you seem to be rather angry and bitter

inside. At least toward women. Gotta let that animosity go. Whatever frustration you have, you have to let that go.

Worthwhile women can sense animosity like they can sense a wuss. Women are better at the emotion/body language game

than men are. And you communicate all this non-verbally. The women you desire are being driven off by the

frustration you are harboring in your heart. You may deny this yourself, but other people see it in you. And it's

quite obvious in your behaviours as you have posted here.

Forget the nightclub and bar scene. Stop going

entirely. If you drink, stop. I think the bar-scene has skewed your perception of women. The only women I have ever

met in bars have been the sleazy, manipulative, I-like-to-boff-drunken-assholes, type. They only go after the

abusive assholes, because that it the way alcohol makes people behave. Alcohol literally kills off your braincells.

Do you REALLY want to get involved with someone that regularly and consistently kills off millions of their neurons

every night they go out drinking?

They aren't worth your time. The women that are real treasures will never be

caught dead in a bar, tavern, pub, nightclub. You'll find them in art galleries, libraries, on college campuses, in

stores, enjoying their hobbies, and the street corner at noon on Wednesday.

Bars and nightclubs = Free drinks,

and lots of ego inflating attention to women. Most go there not to actually find someone to have a relationship

with, but to get drunk on someone elses paycheck (yours), and selfishly feed off of attention of men. Something they

don't deserve. They are taking your money and attention and giving nothing back. If they feel like it they'll

sleep with someone if they are drunk enough and the guy is enough of a loser like themselves.

Water always

seeks it's own level. It's obvious that your level is way above that of simple barflies. Thusly your difficulty in

attracting and sleeping with women from that tavern-mentality culture.

It's time to raise the bar for

yourself holmes.

[Elvis]

Thanks, Felstorm...it's

gonna take time.

[belgareth]

CelticBhoy,

Do you have an

exercise regamin? Do you work out in some way? For me, going to the dojo and spending an hour or two exercising and

working with others in a controlled aggression does wonders for my attitude. It also helps to build and reinforce

the self discipline needed to keep my own temper under control. Once you start getting good at any one of the arts

the self confidence also begins to show and that helps in almost every situation.

[Elvis]

I don't have a regime

unfortunately. I think I have a general loathing of social situations. I can't go to a swimming pool for example,

because I don't like the idea of sharing the water with the great unwashed (I've been like that since a child).

Same goes for a gym. Maybe, I could get a weightbench and just invite a friend round to pump some iron. Or seek

professional help! Hehe.

Had any scary real-life encounters where your martial art paid dividends, belgareth.

What do you do exactly...how many weeks, months would it take for such an activity to help with emotional reactions,

IYO?

[Elvis]

Check it out, it's a new me on my

path to spiritual enlightenment.

[belgareth]

I don't have a

regime unfortunately. I think I have a general loathing of social situations. I can't go to a swimming pool for

example, because I don't like the idea of sharing the water with the great unwashed (I've been like that since a

child). Same goes for a gym. Maybe, I could get a weightbench and just invite a friend round to pump some iron. Or

seek professional help! Hehe.

Had any scary real-life encounters where your martial art paid dividends,

belgareth. What do you do exactly...how many weeks, months would it take for such an activity to help with emotional

reactions, IYO?

Professional help might not be a bad idea, it sounds a bit phobic to me. There are others

much more qualified than me to make those kinds of judgments though.

Most people starting out in martial arts

start gaining self confidence within the first few months. Over time it grows as you become more profficient and

earn your belts. Nothing comes for free and that is the important part. You have to earn it.

I've been in one

or two bad situations over the years but that was a long time ago. I learned how to avoid trouble along the way.

Just because I can do something doesn't mean I want to do it. I've also spent a lot of time studying philosophy

and that has helped me a lot, my perspective on life and people has changed a bit.

[Yoel]

I started practicing martial arts

one year ago and my confidence boosted as I increased my experience. But exactly like Bel says, just because I know

how to fight doesn't mean I have to show off. In fact, I have never got into a fight since then. I think it's

really relaxing though.
I for sure am now calmer and more resolute (confident) than a year ago.

Yoel

[InternationalPlayboy]

I

started practicing martial arts one year ago and my confidence boosted as I increased my experience. But exactly

like Bel says, just because I know how to fight doesn't mean I have to show off. In fact, I have never got into a

fight since then. I think it's really relaxing though.
I for sure am now calmer and more resolute (confident)

than a year ago.

Yoel

I think that's part of martial arts training. You learn what to do in a

bad situation, but you also develop your confidence and intuition to the point where you avoid getting into that

type of situation in the first place.

[InternationalPlayboy]

I was a similar type

of person a few years ago. Just getting in my car and driving to the store in the winter, the height of our tourist

season, was enough to send me into a tirade by the time I got home. I was very antisocial and hostile towards people

I didn't know. Meditation turned it around for me.

An easy, "One Minute Meditation" can be found

here. I've been using

Siva Baba's techniques now since 1999 and feel they have helped me a lot with relaxation and dealing with others.

Haven't had the more grandiose benefits some claim to have received yet, but I feel it is beneficial just for how

my outlook on life has changed.

Originally into self-hypnosis, I learned about Baba through a Wayne Dyer

Book. Dyer's books might be a good area to pursue in the quest for self-improvment. He also has a meditation tape

out which is based on Siva Baba's technique.

Baba's meditations and claims might not be for you, so like

belgareth said, I recommend checking out the library and bookstores for meditation, self-hypnosis, and relaxation

tapes or CDs. A library would be best as you could "try before you buy," but consider looking in used CD and

bookstores for discounted self-improvement titles too.

[bjf]

Celtic, did you change your name to

elvis?

[InternationalPlayboy]

I should add, even

with meditation, I still have attitude problems if I wear too much Edge. I can only wear a dab or two of that stuff

alone without getting impatient and easily irritated. The meditation practice has helped me to identify my attitude

at the time and also helps to maintain composure.

[Elvis]

Celtic, did you change

your name to elvis?

Yeah, what d'ya think? Rockin' social conscience or what, man! I feel better

already...just don't step on m' blue suede winklepickers, dude. chortle.

I should

add, even with meditation, I still have attitude problems if I wear too much Edge

Thanks for the

meditation tip. I think TE even in low doses does put me on 'edge', never mind this OD business. Do you work with

'nol in the main, then?

[InternationalPlayboy]

Yeah,

what d'ya think? Rockin' social conscience or what, man! I feel better already...just don't step on m' blue

suede winklepickers, dude. chortle.


Thanks for the meditation tip. I think TE even in low doses does

put me on 'edge', never mind this OD business. Do you work with 'nol in the main, then?

I've been

using mainly Chikara and Perception since their introduction. Chikara is my favorite for overall well being and good

reactions from others. Perception makes me feel a bit more assertive and has given me blatent DIHL hits, but it

doesn't give me the "exotic" feeling that I get from wearing Chikara.

Still trying TE on occasion but I

have to wear a "smoother" in conjunction with it, such as Chikara, SOE, or even Pheros, to keep myself from getting

"edgy." (I sometimes wonder if that's the reason for the name, it puts everyone on edge.)

[Watcher]

Ok celticelvis (sorry couldnt

resist)

Being sceptical of women is ok - some deserve to be treated with contempt - there are a few that say

you should be doormat for those types of girls that treat ya like sheet

The way i see it is if she treats ya

with respect then you give it in return if she treats you with contempt like a doormat - you move on - now with miss

italy girl you were right to give her a ribbing - perhaps you could have used a better lot of language or been a bit

smarter about it but basically she was dissing you after initally leading you along and you were right to vent

youre frustratings to her in the manner you did.

You could have even just called her a attention seeking

pricktease and shell never get a decent guy to treat her with respect if she keeps leading them along like she does

(not that any good will come of it of course)

Now of course there are the other types of girls that treat

guys that treat them good with respect and are quick to tell you they aint interested or they are

interested.

Remember women will tell you the opposite of what they really respond to - ie if you treat em

good they will respect you and not string you along - what a load of BS its just a cover so they can make you think

that they wont do that.

You need to learn like i have done to simply judge them by their actions not by their

words remember girls are masters of the verbal game and in most cases if they can talk you into a state of ignorance

they will.

My approach is to guage her respect / contempt / ignorance / responsivenss to me by her actions

and not so much by her words - i can then make a rational - less sexual emotional judgement on her personality and

weather to pursue things further.

If she is responsive - not ignorant without a valid reason ie if shes busy

thats fine but if its a deliberate attempt at avoiding me then of course its going nowhere - but if she does be

responsive etc things could go further.

[Elvis]

Some good points Watcher.

Especially, judging on actions not words.

But...

Ok celticelvis (sorry couldnt

resist)

you can call me Sir from now on!

I've been

using mainly Chikara and Perception since their introduction. Chikara is my favorite for overall well being and good

reactions from others. Perception makes me feel a bit more assertive and has given me blatent DIHL hits, but it

doesn't give me the "exotic" feeling that I get from wearing Chikara.

Still trying TE on occasion but I have to

wear a "smoother" in conjunction with it, such as Chikara, SOE, or even Pheros, to keep myself from getting "edgy."

(I sometimes wonder if that's the reason for the name, it puts everyone on edge.)

This is eating me up

inside. I have about $90 to play with, obviously I want to make this stretch as far as possible. You know TE makes

me aggro quite easily, OD turns me into Dracula. I still have a lot of it left. I also have SPMO. What do I get?

I've had a lot of opinions but don't feel anything has swung my mind. Do you think the best ones I'd be looking

at are:

1.Chikara
2.Perception
3.AE
4.SOE
5.Pheros.

I know this is rather simplistic to say the least,

but would this be an order of popularity? I think I need a good 'nol/'rone source to take the heat out of TE. One

that smells good. But I really would like to see sexual hits as well as keeping cool with the guys? What are my

options? Could I even manage to sneak a couple of products while keeping to my aims? The possibilities are endless,

especially since I could get packs of SOE/Chikara and still have a lot of dough to spend. Help!!!!!

[bjf]

For your cause, I'd get chikara.

The SOE is pretty close to the SPMO....the rone isn't going to make a huge huge difference. A big thing is how it

affects yourself anyway.

Perception won't help your cause because you are still going to want to mix with a

bit of te and I think the none in perception will send you over the edge - AND WE DON'T WANT THAT . AE is a

standalone, subtle product. Again, I don't see the point really. Might as well get chikara, which has all three

mones of AE, plus four more, and mix with TE.

As for Pheros, that has valerian in it which may relax you

somewhat. But chikara should make you feel better, plus will have more hit power and enhance the te more

greatly.

I guess you pay so much in S&H that you want to get everything you need in one shot. I'd recommend

1. chikara first, do some research on wagg too, as that would suit you but I don't know if you'd use it that much

if you had chikara, and SOE is a solid choice, but again, you have spmo and I am not sure you could justify paying

50 bucks for it then.

[Elvis]

Thanks bjf, I reckon that just

about sums it for me!

[chococat]

Thanks, this kind

of thing gives me hope.



Welcome to the pathetic male psyche, chococat!
I am the

embodiment of this behaviour. I suppose some people can't sing, dance, drive...or have timing in said situation.

Please tell him to his face you're not interested in him romantically and soon, if you haven't already done so.

Well, I have already told him I am not interested in anything but friendship (even before I

started wearing the copulins.)

Not sure how to deal with this. This is the problem with females wearing

pheromones. Normally we have a specific target (I do) and forget about all the *other* targets we create

involuntarily by wearing pheromones.

I guess the only up side to this is that perhaps it makes me appear more

attractive in the minds of the guys who have not noticed me. If it works that way at all with men.

[Elvis]

Well, I have

already told him I am not interested in anything but friendship (even before I started wearing the

copulins.)

Good for you If he's giving you touchy-feely stuff, you could just give him the hint

subtly but firmly your using body-language. If that doesn't work, politely pointing out he's in your personal

space may have an effect.

I imagine from your perspective, this really isn't a big deal. Ladies don't view

touchy-feely stuff like men do. Unless he's genuinly creepy, you maybe don't mind. For him, the more

personal/physical contact he gets away with is a sign...the more he assumes you must like him...a little bit

more...a little bit more, etc.

These situations are strange, but when it all comes to a head, I have found

myself on the receiving end too many times. There is many a girl out there who I genuinly have distaste for and

it's all because they were too afraid to spell it out for me. I know this is a problem for both parties. I see guys

all around me at it, hoping...wishing...and the girls hoping and wishing that he'd just go away even for 5 minutes!

I guess it's just a misunderstanding between the sexes. I suppose the situation is the same for a girl liking a guy

who doesn't 'see' her like that. However, maybe more rarely...guys are always looking at girls 'like that',

even the ones they don't even fancy. Wierd isn't it?

I guess the only up side to this is

that perhaps it makes me appear more attractive in the minds of the guys who have not noticed me. If it works that

way at all with men.

It works exactly as you say for both sexes I feel.

This is the

problem with females wearing pheromones. Normally we have a specific target (I do) and forget about all the *other*

targets we create involuntarily by wearing pheromones.

I believe this as likely to be a simple girl/boy

thing as much as anything. I seen this situation a thousand times with people who didn't know about the 'mones.




Hope you get your real target. Was it this guy » Saw him checkin' you out earlier. Good luck!

[chococat]

Good for you

If he's giving you touchy-feely stuff, you could just give him the hint subtly but firmly your using

body-language. If that doesn't work, politely pointing out he's in your personal space may have an effect.

I am attempting to do this. I hope it works without hurting his feelings.

If you have any advice

about how to do this without hurting feelings, let me know. I really would like to remain his friend, but it seems

like most men don't know how to *do* this.

I imagine from your perspective, this really isn't a

big deal. Ladies don't view touchy-feely stuff like men do. Unless he's genuinly creepy, you maybe don't mind.

For him, the more personal/physical contact he gets away with is a sign...the more he assumes you must like him...a

little bit more...a little bit more, etc.

Thanks for telling me this. I already figured that everytime I

allowed him to hug me or brush bodies with me, I was just giving him a tiny "go!" It's good to see it in writing.

The touchy-feely stuff really *isn't* a big deal to me, as long as it doesn't cross a certain line. I just have

the feeling that this guy is considering me as more of a "girlfriend" as opposed to a "girl who is a friend."

Hope you get your real target. Was it this guy » Saw him checkin' you out earlier. Good

luck!

Oh yeah!

[Friendly1]

I am attempting

to do this. I hope it works without hurting his feelings.

If you have any advice about how to do this

without hurting feelings, let me know. I really would like to remain his friend, but it seems like most men don't

know how to *do* this.

Women seem to be totally clueless in only this one area where men are concerned.



Most often, all the agonizing over protecting a man's feelings is what causes him to get hurt in the first place.

Yes, if you just blatantly say, "This will never happen, please move on", he'll be disappointed. If you do it in

a public place, he may even be humiliated.

But if you do it at the first sign of serious interest, most men WILL

move on.

The longer a woman waits to be honest with a man, the more he comes to believe that he has a chance

with her, and the more hurt he ends up suffering when he finally understands she doesn't want him.

I cannot

count all the times I have tried to explain this to women, only to watch them "protect" some poor guy's feelings,

and ultimately ending up with someone "stalking" them, or crying, or otherwise acting totally hurt and crushed.



When men think they have a chance with a woman, they don't listen to her subtle suggestions to get lost.

[chococat]

Women seem to

be totally clueless in only this one area where men are concerned.

I have to agree with you.

Most often, all the agonizing over protecting a man's feelings is what causes him to get hurt in the first

place. Yes, if you just blatantly say, "This will never happen, please move on", he'll be disappointed. If you do

it in a public place, he may even be humiliated.

I would never do this to anyone. Isn't it a rule that

all bad news should be broken in private? Ontop of that, I consider him a friend, so I would not *dream* of doing

this to him. Ontop of that, I'm honestly flattered to pieces that he thinks this of me, w/ or w/o mones.

But if you do it at the first sign of serious interest, most men WILL move on.

I did this after

he asked, "Do you want to be my girlfriend?" But we do continue to have lunch in the uni cafeteria together on a

weekly basis.

When men think they have a chance with a woman, they don't listen to her subtle

suggestions to get lost.

I think this, too, can go for both sexes.

[Friendly1]

I did this

after he asked, "Do you want to be my girlfriend?" But we do continue to have lunch in the uni cafeteria together on

a weekly basis.

It sounds to me like he still has hope, which means he didn't pay attention when you said

"No".

Remember, guys often hear the adage, "No doesn't always mean no" and think, "Yeah, that's what this is.

A 'no' that maybe isn't 'no'."

On the other hand, there are those rare love stories where the guy just

won't let go and the girl eventually realizes he IS the catch.

My brother fell in love with a girl who worked

at a bar where his band played on weekends. He decided she would just have to be his. In her words, "he was all over

me -- he never left me alone."

They've been married more than 20 years, and I don't see any bumps in their

relationship. They are still very close and affectionate.

When I was in college, I would come on strong to the

girls, and they would say, "Let's just be friends", and I would say, "Okay", and just be their friend, and damn if

they didn't fall in love with me after I'd started mooning over someone else.

If love were easy to figure out,

we'd all have what we want right away.

Who wants to go through all the grief and crap?


Anyway -- sounds

like you actually like the guy, but aren't feeling the attraction for him. You could always go out with a few jerks

to remind yourself of why the nice guys really ARE worth pursuing.


Or buy him a bottle of Chikara for

Christmas and see what happens.

[chococat]

Anyway --

sounds like you actually like the guy, but aren't feeling the attraction for him. You could always go out with a

few jerks to remind yourself of why the nice guys really ARE worth pursuing.

You're doing the same

thing he is doing.

I grew up in a very *male* household, so I'm very used to seeing males as friends (that

is, no sexual contact with my family, duh.) Remember that in general, women feel that men and women can be friends

without having any attraction towards eachother. I'm definitely not attracted to him and I couldn't see myself

*ever* being attracted to him. He's been in the "friend zone" ever since I met him and our interests jive. The

only thing we seem to have in common is that we happen to be taking the same class. When he asked me if I wanted to

be his girlfriend, I was utterly in shock. I had given him no signs, body language or intimate (kissing, hugging, et

cetera) contact that could have brought him to believe that I would like this kind of thing. I treat him like I

treat my female friends, so his question really threw me for a loop.

[Friendly1]

...Remember

that in general, women feel that men and women can be friends without having any attraction towards

eachother....

I mean this in the kindest, gentlest, George Bush Seniorist way when I say, "Chickweed, you

have MUCH to learn about men."

Especially YOUNG men.

They are re-evaluating every girl they know constantly.

They notice when her breasts poke out of her sweater. They notice when she leans over or kneels and shows off her

sweet, curvaceous butt. They notice how smooth and silky her hair is. They breathe deep when she is wearing THAT

perfume. They curse the sons-of-b*tches who get to go out with (and sleep with) their "friends".

...I'm

definitely not attracted to him and I couldn't see myself *ever* being attracted to him. He's been in the "friend

zone" ever since I met him and our interests jive. The only thing we seem to have in common is that we happen to be

taking the same class. When he asked me if I wanted to be his girlfriend, I was utterly in shock. I had given him no

signs, body language or intimate (kissing, hugging, et cetera) contact that could have brought him to believe that I

would like this kind of thing.

See, women just don't get it. Look at it from the evolutionary point of view.

Men didn't ASK women to be their mates. They strode in, knocked a few heads around, and took the bodacious female

of their choice. The ones who failed were probably killed off, or fled to the hills to try again until they could

pull it off.

Men are programmed to just WANT women. We don't care whether you have chosen us. We see you bend

over, we think, OHMYGOD! THAT BODY WAS BRED FOR MAKING BABIES. *MY* BABIES!

The emotional stuff happens because

you're NICE to him, spend time with him. Intuitively, that tells him that you feel safe with him, so he gets to be

your big, brawny protector.

I treat him like I treat my female friends, so his question really threw me

for a loop.

Remember: He's NOT a girl. He's a GUY. He has his own agenda. If you don't want to be a part

of it, then be scarce.

It's probably too late to avoid hurting his feelings, but the longer you allow this

situation to continue, the more hurt (and angry) he will be in the end.

[Watcher]

Good advice friendly - tell him

you find him unattractive - make up something about wanting a guy that doesnt look like him at all.

be nice

and let him know yu just want to be friends. At least then he can sulk for a while then pull himself together and

go find a real girlfriend

He might spend a bit less time with you in that case but if he is wanting a girl

he is going to devote his time elsehwere but at least you let him know up front that its just friends and thats it =

you should be able to keep the friendship as well all going well

JUST DONT STRING HIM ALONG - HE WILL END UP

HATING YOU FOR THAT IF YOU DO AND ANY FUTURE FRIENDSHIP WILL ALSO BE GONE.

Sorry to shout im sure youre

already aware of this but i have been strung along before so this bit of watcher advice is directed at any girls

reading this thread in a similar situtaiton.

[bjf]

Being friends with an attractive girl

is not fullfilling. Having sex and being friends with her is, so men will always strive to be more than just friends

if you are attractive and he is single.

[Elvis]

Being friends with an

attractive girl is not fullfilling. Having sex and being friends with her is, so men will always strive to be more

than just friends if you are attractive and he is single.

Absolutely. Being "just friends" with almost

any girl (attractive or less so) is torture, almost to the point of it being impossible, in my experience. A man

will want to do any girl that doesn't physically repulse him...that includes all of his female friends. This is as

important to the man as is the friendship is to the woman. It's not the thought of losing the friendship that stops

a man from making a move on his female friend...it's rejection.

Chococat, men and woman think very differently.

Men want IT from everyone, women want IT only from a select few, women need

companionship...men don't.

I would tell this guy straight out. He probably won't get the hint otherwise.

Isn't life strange?

[bjf]

I do kind of feel bad for her. She

did reject him once and he didn't really get the point. She really did nothing wrong, yet the situation obviously

isn't great. It is probably best to just not make friends with guys you are not interested in unless they are gay

or are with somebody already. If you do, have some friends for him t try and get with. Otherwise, our goals just

clash. Because yea, we don't need companionship. We can get that from our hairy friends or the tv. We need

intimacy.