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Thread: Body Language

  1. #121
    Bad Motha Holmes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendly1
    Your knowledge of

    phsyiology (bypassing the limbic brain, touching a woman releases oxytocin, women secrete less than men) leaves

    something to be desired.

    I have read DeAngelo's limbic brain nonsense, and that is all it is. The limbic

    system is crucial to governing emotional states. If you could successfully bypass the limbic system, you would

    bypass all of a girl's emotional responses. That means, she would not care a thing about what you do and would not

    feel any attraction toward you.
    Not sure, but I think his schtick involves communicating directly

    with the limbic brain, not bypassing it.
    If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen

    Holmes' Theme Song

  2. #122
    Phero Pharaoh
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    It looks like Phersurf and I

    are mixing up sources, although I was only addressing his comments about bypassing the limbic brain. I have just now

    done a quick search on Google for references to stuff like that and apparently they are made on amateur seduction

    forums and in pseudo-scientific web articles.

  3. #123
    Phero Enthusiast phersurf's Avatar
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    If I said that the limbic brain

    can be bypassed, I misspoke. I meant to say that through the correct body language, vocal tonalities, attitudes, and

    the actual words that a man says will bypass a women's neocortex and talk directly to her limbic brain.

    Don't believe me or and "pseudo-scientific" articles, please, please read (Or don't, I don't care. But your views

    are NOT based in science) any of the following books. Much of David D's material comes from these (as well as

    modelling men that are naturally good with women).

    The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human

    Nature

    The Mating Mind : How Sexual Choice Shaped the Evolution of Human Nature

    Sperm Wars: The

    Science of Sex

    The Evolution of Desire: Strategies of Human Mating

    Why We Love : The Nature and

    Chemistry of Romantic Love


    This is a short description of the limbic brain,

    Common to all

    mammals, it developed about 60 million years ago, after the dinosaurs perished.

    It's involved in bonding

    needs, including emotions linked to attachment.


    It acts as the brain's emotion factory, creating the

    chemical messages that connect information into memory.

    Retention of information can be significantly

    increased when it's presented in an emotionally charged context.

    If it is not possible to bypass a woman's

    logical brain (neocortex) and stimulate her limbic brain how do you explain the endless stories of women that are

    otherwise intelligent, educated, with good jobs taking up with "bad boys", guys that mistreat them (even

    physically), cheat on them, etc. It's because these guys, through their attitude and actions, more closely fit the

    ancient architype of what a high status alpha male is supposed to be. And no amount of her tying to convince herself

    logically that he is bad for her, will break that deep attraction she has for him.

    One last thing, David D

    does not teach gimics or tricks to seduce women (like Ross Jeffries). Most of his video program is all about the

    inner game. Becomming a better man that will eminate the kind of energy and attitude that naturally attracts

    women.

    If you have any kind of open mind, you'd get his Advanced DVD series and watch it. Then send it back,

    it won't cost you a dime and you may actually learn something.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by phersurf
    If it is not

    possible to bypass a woman's logical brain (neocortex) and stimulate her limbic brain how do you explain the

    endless stories of women that are otherwise intelligent, educated, with good jobs taking up with "bad boys", guys

    that mistreat them (even physically), cheat on them, etc. ...
    Hype and B.S. All these discussions you

    read about "bypassing" parts of the brain are nonsense, and nothing more.

    You don't bypass anything. You can

    (and in your case I'll accept that you have) learn/aquire skills which help you connect with someone of the

    opposite sex quickly and easily.

    But anyone who talks about bypassing parts of the brain without brain surgery

    isn't qualified to be discussing it.

    So, my advice to you is, take what works for you, use it, but don't

    expose yourself to ridicule or being undercut by repeating all this psychobabble mishmash. You don't need to do

    that.

    Most people DON'T understand how the human system works and they get through life just fine anyway.

  5. #125
    Phero Enthusiast phersurf's Avatar
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    I'll accept that.

    But I

    still think you should read a couple of those books I listed

  6. #126
    Phero Enthusiast phersurf's Avatar
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    I take it back, I don't accept

    your statement about BS and hype. Maybe a better way of saying it would be "communicate directly with her limbic

    brain" as opposed to "bypass her logical brain"

    What do you think happens when you're out somewhere and in

    your peripheral vision you see a hot woman and your head almost instantly snaps to look at her? That's your limbic

    brain detecting her before your necortex has a chance to say, "she's hot!". You're not logically thinking to

    yourself, "she has the right hip to waist ratio, symetrical face, firm breasts, clear skin, I think I'll be

    attracted to her". Your limbic brain instinctually knows what an attractive woman looks like.

    There are many

    studies that show when a man sees images of beautiful women, there is activity in his limbic brain before there is

    activity in his neocortex.

    Just like our limbic brains know what an attractive woman looks like, a woman's

    know's what an attractive man looks (and more importantly to women, acts).

    When women take part of the same

    studies and are shown images of physically attractive men, there is activity in her limbic brain, only it's much

    less than in a man's. Unless they're first told first that the men in the images are in some high status position

    in life, then the limbic brain activity is equal to the men's. With men it makes no difference what they are told

    about the women before they are shown the images.

    When women say they want a man that is confident, funny,

    etc do you think they think to themselves, "he's funny, confident, I think I'll be attracted to him". No, their

    limbic brain knows that those are attractive attributes.

  7. #127
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    Another life of its own! Some women

    do not reach decisions logically. It's actually been quantified - they are more natural at deciding based on

    feeling (and intuition). Some of these techniques just maximize the appeal to this type of decision and minimize the

    other. By showing through actions that you are a confident and desirable man and not a needy wuss - you trigger this

    type of decision. Open your mouth and you trigger the logical side - since it thinks in words - step by

    step.

    You are trying to make her reach a conclusion about you without letting her think about you in words -

    it's not bypassing. These two systems work in both men and women - 60% of women would rather use their leaps of

    feeling to make a decision and pheromones and any of these techniques appeal to that.

    I'm no Brain Surgeon.

    but I am somewhat of a Personality Psychologist. PUt that in your pipe and flush it.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by phersurf
    I take it back,

    I don't accept your statement about BS and hype. Maybe a better way of saying it would be "communicate directly

    with her limbic brain" as opposed to "bypass her logical brain"
    This discussion really has nothing to do

    with body language.

    What do you think happens when you're out somewhere and in your peripheral vision

    you see a hot woman and your head almost instantly snaps to look at her? That's your limbic brain detecting her

    before your necortex has a chance to say, "she's hot!".
    This is nonsense.

    There is no such thing as a

    "limbic brain". The limbic system is one of four or five sections of that area of the brain called the neocortex.



    So, if you COULD bypass the neocortex, you would also be bypassing the limbic system.

    You really don't need

    to drag this out.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist
    I'm no Brain

    Surgeon. but I am somewhat of a Personality Psychologist. PUt that in your pipe and flush it.
    I am not a

    psychologist or psychiatrist, but I DID study under a physiological psychologist, and I can only imagine what he

    would have to say about all this limbic brain stuff.

  10. #130
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    don't we have a psych

    major/somebody with expertise on the human brain on this forum to settle this?

  11. #131
    Phero Enthusiast phersurf's Avatar
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    http://members.aol.com/nonverbal3/limbic.htm

    "RESEARCH REPORTS: 1. The limbic system "plays a

    key role in the evolutionary survival and eventual success of hominids" (Eccles 1989:97). 2. Regarding nonverbal

    behavior, the limbic system's a. amygdalar division promotes feeding, food-search, angry, and defensive behaviors

    related to obtaining food; b. septal division promotes sexual pleasure, genital swelling, grooming, courtship, and

    maternal behavior; and c. thalamocingulate division promotes play, vocalization (e.g., the separation cry), and

    maternal behavior (MacLean 1993). 3. "While the cortex contains our model of reality and analyzes what exists

    outside ourselves, it is the limbic brain that determines the salience of that information" (Cytowic 1993:156). 4.

    The cerebral cortex "has more inputs from the limbic system than the limbic system has coming from the cortex"

    (Cytowic 1993:161). 5. Many emotional systems, in addition to the limbic system, may exist in the brain (LeDoux

    1996:103)."


    http://www.thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/..._05_cr_her.htm



    The limbic brain emerged in the first mammals. It can record memories of behaviours that produced agreeable

    and disagreeable experiences, so it is responsible for what are called emotions in human beings. The main structures

    of the limbic brain are the hippocampus, the amygdala, and the hypothalamus. The limbic brain is the seat of the

    value judgments that we make, often unconsciously, that exert such a strong influence on our

    behaviour.


    [url]http://www.glenninstitute.org/glenn/news_reviews_director_bookshelf_details.asp?id=5[/url

    ]

    "Publisher: Vintage Books
    Year Published: 2001

    Reviewer: Deborah Merritt
    Affiliation: Glenn

    Institute Staff

    What’s love got to do with civic engagement? Quite a bit, it turns out. Thomas Lewis, Fari

    Amini, and Richard Lannon—all psychiatrists—explain the latest discoveries of brain research in this engaging book

    for laymen. Along the way, they illuminate what makes us distinctly human and why we crave community.

    Our

    human brain encompasses three distinct brains: the reptilian brain, the neocortex, and the limbic brain. The

    reptilian brain, which we share with our distant relatives the crocodiles and snakes, regulates heartbeat,

    digestion, and other basic life functions. The reptilian brain can also generate instinctive behaviors like mating

    and territorial defense. But the reptilian brain supports neither emotion nor cognition.

    The neocortex houses

    speaking, writing, planning, reasoning, awareness, and will—the functions we most associate with being human.

    Indeed, humans boast more neocortex than any other animal; we are justly proud of our thinking skills.

    But

    Lewis, Amini, and Lannon focus their attention on the mysterious limbic brain, an organ we share with other mammals.

    The limbic brain is the seat of emotion, attachment, and play. Mammals, the authors point out “bear their young

    live; they nurse, defend, and rear them while they are immature. Mammals, in other words, take care of their own.”

    These mammalian characteristics distinguish us as humans as much as our cognitive abilities do. A human, like other

    mammals, “will risk and sometimes lose its life to protect a child or mate from attack. A garter snake or a

    salamander watches the death of its kin with an unblinking eye.”

    The limbic brain doesn’t govern only the

    caring of parents, children, and mates; it is the seat of all our social urges—and those are powerful forces. Humans

    the world over show identical facial expressions. A smile signals friendliness and joy in Papua New Guinea as well

    as New York. These universal expressions, tied to the limbic brain, allow us to communicate with other humans

    instantaneously and without conscious thought. Eye contact between two strangers transmits sympathy, hostility,

    lust, or other emotions. The limbic brain establishes these positive or negative ties before the neocortex

    articulates them.

    Humans, moreover, seek social bonds. When in the company of family members, lovers, and

    friends, our limbic brains resonate with theirs. This communication stabilizes individuals, improving both emotional

    well being and health. For this reason, humans with partners—or even with other mammalian companions like a dog or

    cat—outlive humans who are alone.

    Lewis, Amini, and Lannon focus their attention on the limbic brain’s

    meaning for family relationships and mature love. They also discuss the ways in which therapy can—and

    cannot—reprogram brains for healthier relationships. Their insights, however, are also significant for those

    concerned with civic relationships.

  12. #132
    Phero Enthusiast phersurf's Avatar
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    don't we have a psych

    major/somebody with expertise on the human brain on this forum to settle this?
    No one should take any

    of our words for it. Just read a couple of these and make up your own mind!

    These are all written using the

    newest evidence based on more than enough verifiable studies from scientists from all over the world.




    Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature by Matt Ridley

    The Evolution of Desire: Strategies of Human

    Mating by David M. Buss

    The Mating Mind : How Sexual Choice Shaped the Evolution of Human Nature by GEOFFREY

    MILLER

    Anatomy of Love: A Natural History of Mating, Marriage, and Why We Stray by HELEN FISHER

    Sperm

    Wars: The Science of Sex by Robin Baker

    The Evolution of Desire: Strategies of Human Mating by David M.

    Buss

    The Alchemy of Love and Lust by Theresa L. Crenshaw

  13. #133
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    Damn people!

    It's all a

    bunch of metaphors! Stop it.

    The right body language triggers an "emotional" response in her (pheromones make

    it a little easier).

    Let's start a new thread and call it the Biopsychology of Pheromone Usage in

    Seduction: For Dorks Only.

    I'm there!

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist
    Damn people!



    It's all a bunch of metaphors! Stop it.

    The right body language triggers an "emotional" response in her

    (pheromones make it a little easier).

    Let's start a new thread and call it the Biopsychology of Pheromone

    Usage in Seduction: For Dorks Only.

    I'm there!
    Well, the sad thing is that someone revived discussion

    in this thread to help introduce people to the principles of reading body language and it was hijacked into a

    pseudo-science argument.

    However, if Phersurf and others who talk about bypassing the limbic brain actually do

    start reading up on this stuff (and quoting the names of books ain't reading up on anything), then I suppose some

    good will come of it.

    I do have a request for the moderators, though. I think it would be more useful to split

    off the limbic system discussion to some sort of physiology of attraction thread. I think people will get something

    out of the topic if we can separate it from the body language discussion.

  15. #135
    Phero Dude
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    i was reading an article about

    mystery and i ran into this:



    http://www.elle.com

    /article.asp?article_id=5820&section_id=36&page_num ber=1&magind=5790


    A HARDWIRED HABIT
    While

    Mystery refuses to talk about the psychological underpinnings of his Method, several experts I consult testify to

    its soundness. Desmond Morris, the British zoologist and sexuality expert, admits that the Method is a shrewd

    compression of the phases of love. “One of the great mistakes men make is not playing all the stages of courtship,”

    he says. “It has to be done stage by stage if it's going to work.”

    Cornell associate professor of human

    development Cynthia Hazan thinks the Method works on a deeper level than even Mystery knows. First of all, she says,

    “you knock [the woman] off balance” with the neg, so throughout the next phases “her judgment is impaired. She

    becomes focused on getting his attention and approval and getting back into the group.” From the point of view of

    evolutionary psychology, she adds, “it's really anxiety-provoking, and humans have a built-in aspect where when

    we're anxious we want to get closer to other people.”

    The act of negging an attractive woman can even tamper

    with her brain chemistry, says Helen Fisher, the author of Why We Love: The Nature and Chemistry of Romantic

    Love
    . “When you fall in love with somebody, what's going on in the brain is an elevated activity of dopamine,”

    the main arousal chemical, and “the system that motivates you to win a reward,” she explains. “A woman who's a 9 or

    a 10 doesn't have to do any work to get a man, so the system usually isn't triggered and she doesn't feel

    romantic love. But when someone spurns her, that system will kick in and she'll feel attraction.”

    We can't be

    blamed for our innate trigger systems, can we? But to be fooled by the crocodile tears of male “vulnerability”? Even

    here we're conditioned to respond, Hazan says. “Vulnerability draws us to people—it's clearly a hardwired

    characteristic. We have this spontaneous desire to nurture them, to alleviate their distress.

    And when the woman

    discovers she's been conned? Once people learn the truth, says Fisher, it often doesn't matter: “The thing is,

    once you've hooked somebody in, they'll be willing to ignore almost anything.”

  16. #136
    Phero Enthusiast phersurf's Avatar
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    That's right Friendly, just

    keep calling it psuedo-science. Just blow off several books written by scientists with tons of up to date verifiable

    studies quoted with your statement "and quoting the names of books ain't reading up on anything". Don't open your

    mind to the possibility that these books prove what I've been saying (poorly, I admit).

    AND I NEVER SAID

    ANYTHING ABOUT BYPASSING THE LIMBIC BRAIN (if you don't believe me, reread my posts)! I SAID THAT IT'S POSSIBLE TO

    BYPASS THE LOGICAL BRAIN (which I admit maybe wasn't the best way to say it)! Having a little reading comprehension

    issue, huh? I guess you also missed when I corrected myself by agreeing with you that your not really bypassing the

    rational brain but talking directly to the limbic system?


    Everyone here talks about the DIHL effect of

    mones, you guys haven't seen anything until you use some of David D's "techniques" (they're not really

    techniques) on an extremely attractive woman! I've seen looks like you can't believe just by acting normal around

    beautiful women and not suplicating.
    Last edited by phersurf; 01-22-2005 at 11:56 AM.

  17. #137
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    Phersurf, there is no

    physiological thing called a "logical brain", either, but I'll accept that as a metaphor for the system you use.



    In the meantime, this discussion has nothing to do with body language, and though you obviously feel it is not

    important, many other people seem to be interested in learning more about it so they can reach their own conclusions

    without either of us giving them their opinions.

    Will you agree to leave well enough alone if I say no more about

    limbic anything, pseudo-anything, etc?

  18. #138
    Phero Enthusiast phersurf's Avatar
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    When I talk about the logical,

    limbic and reptilian brain it refers to various physical parts of the brain that have logical functions. Most

    scientists use these same terms.

    If you'd read any of the books I listed, I think you might be

    enlightened.

  19. #139
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    When I brought this thread

    up from the graves, I was hoping it would spark more conversation on body language (after all that is the title of

    this thread). Please focus more on the original topic as debating on why seduction works is not important to this

    thread. I do however appreciate and respect your opinions on the topic that you are discussing but just want this

    hijacked thread to return to it's original roots.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlboro_man
    When I

    brought this thread up from the graves, I was hoping it would spark more conversation on body language (after all

    that is the title of this thread). Please focus more on the original topic as debating on why seduction works is not

    important to this thread. I do however appreciate and respect your opinions on the topic that you are discussing but

    just want this hijacked thread to return to it's original roots.
    We could always start another body

    language discussion, although there is no guarante it won't be hijacked, either.

    Body language is intrinsically

    important to human behavior.

  21. #141
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    Someone who has a sense of humor!

    Make them laugh! They're body language will show you that you're in!

  22. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendly1
    We could always

    start another body language discussion, although there is no guarante it won't be hijacked, either.

    Body

    language is intrinsically important to human behavior.
    body language is essential because no amount of

    game will help you if you subcommunicate that you are a wussy. for some people being c&f and knowing other seduction

    material self corrects their body language but a person with bad inner game needs to know body language.

    but

    outside of seduction i like to know body language just to see what's going on in the world.

  23. #143
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    Phersurf,

    Since you chose

    to not read my PM, I'll bring it up here. Debate and disagreement are fine. However, keep it civil! There is no

    excuse to be insulting.

    Friendly,

    I was going to stop the off topic discussion until you participated in it.

    It's your thread and you decided to carry on the discussion into other areas so I left it there.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  24. #144
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    I don't see anybody being

    insulting - but then again we all have different senses of humor. However, I agree this forum is going way off

    original topic.

    Let me state my opinion and try to keep it on topic.

    Body language is helpful. No

    bones about it. However, most of the books I have read do make me read too much into what is going on and I have

    found other things more helpful and advancing my goals - and this is what I beleive people are referring to as the

    "inner game". Once I got my inner game focused, the body langauge kind of followed naturally.

    People facing

    each other completely - or a girl turning towards you and locking eye contact just prior to conversation - while I

    am staring right into her eyes. It kind of follows - but whose to say the body language came first - I can't - but

    I can sure as hell recognize it when its happening - her body language sort of mirrors mine - but not because I've

    forced it - but because she is laughing at the conversation - and often times its poking fun at her.

    Perhaps

    we should start a thread about the "inner game".

    personally, I found that to be the MOST INVALUABLE piece of

    the puzzle - or rather - the last piece and everything fell into place.

    The difference between what I am now

    and what I was a year ago is distinctly different. Girls are actually competing for my time whereas before my phone

    was silent. Body Language, pheromones, the inner game - they are all vital components.

    We should definately

    start a new topic since some of the mods are rightfully getting peeved due to our tangents. I don't see any of

    these personal comments as nasty, but then again, I don't take myself so seriously.

    Next person who wants to

    go on about something besides body language in this forum, start a new topic, and I will gladly join in. I have a

    lot to say. Apprently sometimes too much. :-D

  25. #145
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    I went ahead and start that

    new thread and it's simply named body language part 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chemist
    Next person who wants to go on about

    something besides body language in this forum, start a new topic, and I will gladly join in. I have a lot to say.

    Apprently sometimes too much. :-D
    Please join in and say as much as you want, it will be welcomed.



    Quote Originally Posted by Friendly1
    We could always start another body language discussion, although there is no guarante it won't

    be hijacked, either.

    Body language is intrinsically important to human behavior.
    Your opinions and

    knowledge in this subject are greatly welcomed.

    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth
    Phersurf,

    Since you chose to not read my

    PM, I'll bring it up here. Debate and disagreement are fine. However, keep it civil! There is no excuse to be

    insulting.

    Friendly,

    I was going to stop the off topic discussion until you participated in it. It's your

    thread and you decided to carry on the discussion into other areas so I left it there.
    Bel that means if the

    new thread gets off topic I can ask you to do something about it?

  26. #146
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    I wasn't intending to be

    insulting. I just thought that some might be totally shocked at the latest studies about human mating and evolution

    and the books I mentioned have much of that info. For example, 10-20% of all people on the planet have a different

    biological father than they think is their biological father. That's because women marry men that they put in their

    "provider" catagory, but mate with men they put in their "lover" catagory. These catagories are mapped in her limbic

    system (many scientists refer to this logical grouping of brain structures as the "limbic brain").

    And I

    never said that body language is not important. I just said that if you wait for a woman to show you some positive

    signs before you approach, you're drastically decreasing the number of women that you may have a chance with.



    Please refer back to all my posts starting on page 3 and you will see that until I was challanged, I was on

    topic.

  27. #147
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    I got no PMs! But don't send me

    one if its not necessary!

  28. #148
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marlboro_man
    Bel that

    means if the new thread gets off topic I can ask you to do something about it?
    Yes, if I miss it, call my

    attention to it before it gets out of hand. Oscar and I try to catch these but don't always manage to get every one

    of them. Remember that there is a notify mod button that will send us an e-mail too.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

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