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  1. #1
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    Default pheremones! increased muscle mass?

    visit-red-300x50PNG
    i could swear i have increased my muscle mass in the last 2 months ever since using pheremones! am i losing my mind

    or has anyone else experienced this weird phenomenon! its too bad i havent measured my arms and shoulders as this is

    where i have gained the most! is the whole thing possible?

  2. #2
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    It's possible that pheromones

    have a sort of homeopathic action.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

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    Full Member DAdams91982's Avatar
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    Because of such sheer minute

    (or however you spell that) doses of the andro's, its not possible to gain on it. It doesnt have the properties to

    transdermally carry it across at an effective rate.

    Put it this way... With something such at 4AD... you need

    to take 800 - 1000 mgs a day to see results. Or as for one of the most potent transdermals 1-Test... 300 - 600

    Mg's. Both of these are considered the "Moderate" dose... so most go much higher.

    But anyway... By the looks

    of the structures of the mones.. they could have some anabolic/androgenic properties... but by so little that is put

    on, and carrier involved... Im 99.99% positive this did not attribute to your gaining of mass.

    Adams

  4. #4
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    This is someone who obviously

    doesn't believe in homeopathy.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  5. #5
    Full Member DAdams91982's Avatar
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    I believe in homeopathy...

    To an extent, and with certain substances. Andro is not one of em... Why hasnt every other pheromone user here

    blown up??? I know some people here have been using phero's for years and then some.

    Put it this way...

    Phero's and what they do.. You know.. and I would never question what you had to say about them.. actually I would

    take what you say as facts...

    Anabolics, and Fitness substances is my forte'

    Adams

  6. #6
    Moderator belgareth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckyhorse
    i could swear

    i have increased my muscle mass in the last 2 months ever since using pheremones! am i losing my mind or has anyone

    else experienced this weird phenomenon! its too bad i havent measured my arms and shoulders as this is where i have

    gained the most! is the whole thing possible?
    There was a guy on the forum a couple years ago

    the swore pheromones caused him to gain weight. In his caase is seemed to be water. Nobody believed him. No we have

    a second report of gain from mones, it makes me wonder if there isn't something to it in some very rare cases.
    To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.

    Thomas Jefferson

  7. #7
    BDC Concepts Chemo (BDC Concepts)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982
    ...
    Anabolics, and Fitness substances is my forte'

    Adams
    Remember,

    AAS and fitness is my forte as well

    One thing you need to keep in mind is that pheromones may raise serum

    testosterone levels to a minor extent (increases LH slightly). For someone who may be at equilibrium without a

    proper exercise regime a small change in test level will certainly mean a gain of at least a few pounds...which

    would be a noticeable mesomorphosis.

    However, salty dogs like us would probably need something a tad bit

    stronger

    Chemo

  8. #8
    Full Member DAdams91982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chemo (BDC

    Concepts)
    Remember, AAS and fitness is my forte as well

    One thing you need to keep in mind is that pheromones

    may raise serum testosterone levels to a minor extent (increases LH slightly). For someone who may be at equilibrium

    without a proper exercise regime a small change in test level will certainly mean a gain of at least a few

    pounds...which would be a noticeable mesomorphosis.

    However, salty dogs like us would probably need something a

    tad bit stronger

    Chemo
    Smelling Phero's raises LH??? Even then... wouldnt it be so very small of

    a change that it wouldnt be to terribly noticable... I mean chertain foods, and herbs, and such also fluctuate test

    in small amounts.
    Not disagreeing with anything your saying.. just questions from myside... since Phero's are my

    area.

    Last statment I do agree with though... maybe just a "Tad".

    Adams

  9. #9
    Full Member DAdams91982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belgareth
    There was a

    guy on the forum a couple years ago the swore pheromones caused him to gain weight. In his caase is seemed to be

    water. Nobody believed him. No we have a second report of gain from mones, it makes me wonder if there isn't

    something to it in some very rare cases.
    These are two very distant cases though... We dont got a

    background on if anything changed in his lifestyle or what not... I mean changing weather can fluctuate test a

    little bit.

    We need a controlled test subject... Someone who isnt a "Salty Dog" 8-)

    Adams

  10. #10
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982
    I believe

    in homeopathy... To an extent, and with certain substances. Andro is not one of em... Why hasnt every other

    pheromone user here blown up??? I know some people here have been using phero's for years and then some.

    Put

    it this way... Phero's and what they do.. You know.. and I would never question what you had to say about them..

    actually I would take what you say as facts...

    Anabolics, and Fitness substances is my forte'



    Adams
    This is a crossover area, not strictly about fitness substances. Sometime micro doses of something

    can be stronger than mega doses. HgH works in homeopathic form, so why not pheromones? I've had this idea for a

    while, but am just now thinking out loud with it. It wouldn't have to work that way for everybody, since

    homeopathics don't work that way anyhow. I thought I got a little more cut and put on a little non-fat weight when

    I started using them too. I never concluded anything from that, and I still don't. So I'm not saying

    you're wrong, because I don't know. But why dismiss a sensible hypothesis out of hand before any evidence

    has been gathered?
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  11. #11
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982
    Smelling

    Phero's raises LH??? Even then... wouldnt it be so very small of a change that it wouldnt be to terribly

    noticable... I mean chertain foods, and herbs, and such also fluctuate test in small amounts.
    Not disagreeing with

    anything your saying.. just questions from myside... since Phero's are my area.

    Last statment I do agree with

    though... maybe just a "Tad".

    Adams
    Effect sizes of LH spikes are unclear to date, though significant for

    -nol and copulins.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  12. #12
    Full Member DAdams91982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis
    This is a

    crossover area, not strictly about fitness substances. HgH works in homeopathic form, so why not pheromones? I've

    had this idea for a while, but am just now thinking out loud with it. It wouldn't have to work that way for

    everybody, since homeopathics don't work that way anyhow. I thought I got a little more cut and put on a little

    non-fat weight when I started using them too. I never concluded anything from that, and I still don't. So I'm not

    saying you're wrong, because I don't know. But why dismiss a sensible hypothesis out of hand before any

    evidence has been gathered?
    HgH is junk in the homeopathic form... HgH to be effective, should be

    injected.

    The only reason I say this was wrong, is because of the way the "Chemicals" work for this type of

    thing... again I dont know much about how pheromone's work. I was quick to backtrack a little bit when chemo said

    something about flucuating LH... This is something I would like to know more about. Im still skeptical... actually

    damn positive it didn't gain any mass... but am always willing to hear peoples opinions on this, cause like I

    said... Im no pro on pheros... so really I'd believe whatever Chemo said, cause he is quite skilled in both

    fields.

    Adams

  13. #13
    Doctor of Scentology DrSmellThis's Avatar
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    Pardon me a moment, but I'm

    feeling a tad cranky and need to vent. Maybe it's that time of the month. I must admit it is a pet peeve of mine

    when someone proclaims something is "junk" (like someone's idea) in an arrogant manner without citing evidence, or

    demonstrating knowledge of the relevant issues, other than claiming they just know what they are talking about

    better than someone else. It squelches discussion, unless someone is willing to be assertive like myself. Few are,

    as they think it's not worth it. Usually they're right. Because then I personally feel obliged to spend time

    looking up research to fix someone else's irresponsible statement, just because they wouldn't search for the

    studies. And yeah, I feel "scoffed at", which should be unnecessary, even though that's just a trivial ego bruise.

    Right or wrong, I almost never just say something without multiple good reasons to do so, unless I'm kidding. If

    you are just expressing an opinion and guessing you should admit that, but you act like you have some conclusive

    evidence. There, I feel better. Nothing personal. You are by no means the worst offender.

    Apparently there have

    been a few positive studies emerging about homeopathic HgH.



    http://www.findarticles.com/p

    /articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2002_Feb-March/ai_82881786




    http://www.metafoods.com/include/metafoods/mf

    _hgh_studies.htm




    http://www.vitaminusa.com/homrechumgro.html

    My

    nutritionist also showed me a study where those who took homeopathic HgH after quitting the injectable form retained

    several HgH benefits much longer than those who quit altogether, but I couldn't find that one this morning. These

    studies don't prove anything anyway. But they do suggest more research is warranted, which means that the time for

    generating hypotheses is now. When I and my friend took homeopathic HgH for a brief trial, both of us experienced

    immediate improvement in sleep and our voices lowered permanently. The product is of course controversial, but the

    controversy has not been based on research so far, but on theoretical misconceptions about how homeopathy works

    (e.g., that it must be based in "opposites", or that the actual molecule content is what matters.)
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 10-05-2004 at 07:03 AM.
    DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)

  14. #14
    Full Member DAdams91982's Avatar
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    I ment no disrespect in the

    first place... I told you I value your information on stuff you know... I am speaking with knowledge that I have

    gained through real tests on myself, and throught the AAS community.. not through medical studies.. though value may

    raise, and certain things pop up in a medical study, doesnt mean it is really working in the subject themselves... I

    would trust a guy named EuroJuicer on a forums, who has numerous people backing him up (Name is finctional).. over

    someone who has an MD through a textbook.

    I'd love to show some references.. but I cant spend much time on

    here... I just get to dip in and out here and there.. since Im deployed to Southwest Asia.

    Adams




    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis
    Pardon me a moment, but I'm feeling a tad cranky and need to vent. Maybe it's that time of

    the month. I must admit it is a pet peeve of mine when someone proclaims something is "junk" (like someone's idea)

    in an arrogant manner without citing evidence, or demonstrating knowledge of the relevant issues, other than

    claiming they just know what they are talking about better than someone else. It squelches discussion, unless

    someone is willing to be assertive like myself. Few are, as they think it's not worth it. Usually they're right.

    Because then I personally feel obliged to spend time looking up research to fix someone else's irresponsible

    statement, just because they wouldn't search for the studies. And yeah, I feel "scoffed at", which should be

    unnecessary, even though that's just a trivial ego bruise. I almost never just say something without multiple good

    reasons to do so, unless I'm kidding. If you are just expressing an opinion and guessing you should admit that, but

    you act like you have some conclusive evidence. There, I feel better. Nothing personal. You are by no means the

    worst offender.

    Apparently there are a few studies emerging about homeopathic HgH.



    http://www.findarticles.com/p

    /articles/mi_m0ISW/is_2002_Feb-March/ai_82881786




    http://www.metafoods.com/include/metafoods/mf

    _hgh_studies.htm




    http://www.vitaminusa.com/homrechumgro.html

    My

    nutritionist told me he saw a study where those who took homeopathic HgH after quitting the injectable form retained

    HgH benefits longer than those who quit altogether. These studies don't prove anything, but they do suggest more

    research is warranted, which means that the time for generating hypotheses is now. When I and my friend took

    homeopathic HgH for a brief trial, both of us experienced immediate improvement in sleep and our voices lowered

    permanently. The product is of course controversial, but the controversy has not been based on research so far, but

    on theoretical misconceptions about how homeopathy works (e.g., that it must be based in "opposites", or that the

    actual molecule content is what matters.)

  15. #15
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Cops is reputed to raise T

    levels by 150%, I'm don't know the figures for -nol but I remember Bruce told JVK to include -nol in SOE because

    it caused a LH spike.

    I also wonder if products like TE/NPA boost testosterone levels, factoring in the

    stimulant and aggressive properties/effects on self.
    CptKipling

    Information about pheromones: Pheromone Information Library

  16. #16
    Sadhu bjf's Avatar
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    cpt, JVK just said yesterday that the

    150 percent was from a cops and nol mx, and the formula in that study is what he used for SOE/w.

    We've had

    it wrong on the forum all of this time apparently, as it was not just cops

  17. #17
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Thanks bjf I hadn't read that

    thread yet
    CptKipling

    Information about pheromones: Pheromone Information Library

  18. #18
    Full Member DAdams91982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CptKipling
    Cops is

    reputed to raise T levels by 150%, I'm don't know the figures for -nol but I remember Bruce told JVK to include

    -nol in SOE because it caused a LH spike.

    I also wonder if products like TE/NPA boost testosterone levels,

    factoring in the stimulant and aggressive properties/effects on self.
    150%... that is quite a bit... there

    is a big different between 500ng/ml, and 750ng... I wish I could do bloodtest every 10 minutes... one before cops,

    and one after.

    Ha... new preworkout mix, Of course your whey, and V12, and all that fun stuff (M5AA for them on

    cycle days), and a consistent dose of your favorite Cop.

    Okay.. maybe only a few of us will

    find that funny.

    Adams

  19. #19
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjf
    cpt, JVK just said

    yesterday that the 150 percent was from a cops and nol mx, and the formula in that study is what he used for

    SOE/w.

    We've had it wrong on the forum all of this time apparently, as it was not just cops
    I

    apologize for being misleading. The cops formula Astrid used is the same in SoE/w. The androstenol was added to the

    mix since it was linked to increased LH and likely to increased mood in women. How do you get women to wear a

    fragrance product that has more appeal to men than to women? Make sure it has a positive effect on the women (e.g.,

    incorporate androstenol)

    JVK

  20. #20
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    you guys are trippin if you

    think pheromone fragrances actually raise your test enough to see wight gain. something is being over looked, but

    its obviously NOT the cologne.

  21. #21
    Full Member DAdams91982's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonicbum
    you guys are

    trippin if you think pheromone fragrances actually raise your test enough to see wight gain. something is being over

    looked, but its obviously NOT the cologne.
    I believe the same thing.

    Adams

  22. #22
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    Default what about copulins + beta-nol?

    Quote Originally Posted by bjf
    cpt, JVK just said yesterday that the 150 percent was from a cops and nol mx, and the formula in that

    study is what he used for SOE/w.

    We've had it wrong on the forum all of this time apparently, as it was not

    just cops
    I've noticed very good effects on women wearing beta-nol alone and I am currently experimenting

    with PCC alone. Has anyone tried PCC + beta-nol? If regular nol + copulins raises testosterone by 150%, what will

    beta-nol + copulins do or even beta-nol + nol + copulins?

  23. #23
    Sadhu bjf's Avatar
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    tiger, I ws wrong. it is just cops.

    I have beta nol. I still don't buy that adding cops offers much benefit. maybe it makes us produce more of our

    own pheromones.

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    luckyhorse, lemme ask you a

    question. have you also noticed a difference in your eating habits? The reason I'm asking is because as of lately,

    I've been having irresistable cravings, I get so so so hungry. and i have been eating like a horse, but whats

    weird is that i havent noticed getting fatter rather my muscles look more pumped and defined. and i only lift

    weights like once a week. It sounds outraggeous I know... but who knows... may have something to do with p-mones

    like you say.

  25. #25
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    no my eating habits are

    pretty much the same but my arms have increased in size definetly my veins are popping out of both biceps i do

    physical work for a living but have not increased my workload to justify the gain my strength has increased as well!

    strange very strange!

  26. #26
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjf
    I still don't buy that

    adding cops offers much benefit. maybe it makes us produce more of our own pheromones.
    Do you mean

    that you don't believe Astrid's finding of 150% testosterone increase? Such an increase would be very likely to

    result in increased masculine pheromone production.

    I've had peer review comments like "I don't buy the

    model." Such comments, as yours, do not allow for any rational reply, other than tell us why you "don't buy"

    ---whatever.....

    JVK

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    I swear I saw the link to

    the Astrid study before or otherwise had it in my personal research files but cannot find it at the moment. Could

    someone please post or link to the abstract once again.

    Thanks
    Matt

  28. #28
    Sadhu bjf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkohl
    Do you mean that you

    don't believe Astrid's finding of 150% testosterone increase? Such an increase would be very likely to result in

    increased masculine pheromone production.

    I've had peer review comments like "I don't buy the model." Such

    comments, as yours, do not allow for any rational reply, other than tell us why you "don't buy"

    ---whatever.....

    JVK
    No JVK, I meant I don't buy that adding

    cops would help men attract women, at least directly because of the cops. Some people use it based on the social

    validation theory - as in they get laid, so women (non-partners) should find them desirable.

    I don't think

    people react to pheromones like that, ie he has cops on him, so he just got laid. It seems to be a non-rational,

    instinctual quick response, and I'd guess it would be read as "he has a vagina".

    However, I think that maybe

    wearing cops could help in the sense that they increase your T-levels, and thus pheromone production, but who knows

    how long that process takes. Maybe in the time window when you are wearing the cops, the pheromones from that

    t-level increase don't make it to the light of day.

    Anyway, my biggest reason for being a non-believer on

    wearing cops on a man is that the best indication of usefulness is the experiments of the forum members, and most of

    those who tried did not believe them to be useful.

  29. #29
    Banned User jvkohl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjf
    I don't think people

    react to pheromones like that, ie he has cops on him, so he just got laid. It seems to be a non-rational,

    instinctual quick response, and I'd guess it would be read as "he has a vagina".

    However, I think that maybe

    wearing cops could help in the sense that they increase your T-levels, and thus pheromone production, but who knows

    how long that process takes. Maybe in the time window when you are wearing the cops, the pheromones from that

    t-level increase don't make it to the light of day.

    Anyway, my biggest reason for being a non-believer on

    wearing cops on a man is that the best indication of usefulness is the experiments of the forum members, and most of

    those who tried did not believe them to be useful.
    BJF,
    Thank you for the clarification. The

    increased T response reportedly occurs after approx. 20 minutes

    exposure.

    http://evolution.anthro.univie.ac.at... /> <br /> l

    I also have doubts about the effectiveness of using cops when it comes to men using them to increase

    the interest of women. However, there's a new report I just posted info on that indicates a chemical secreted in

    the underarm area of breastfeeding women increases sexual interest in other women.



    JVK

  30. #30
    Bodhi Satva CptKipling's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link JVK.
    CptKipling

    Information about pheromones: Pheromone Information Library

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