Reply With QuoteI would stop on the
protein bars but keep going on the mones. If you stop both, and your blood test comes back good, then you wont know
which was causing it.
Pheromones and liver health
Are the
synthetic pheromones we all use and love here at Love-Scent potentially damaging to the liver? I had a blood test
the other day and some fishy things showed up in my liver. The doctor asked if I was using any body-building
chemicals. I never told him about the -mones, but I was wondering what "transdermal uptake" could do to my insides?
I've done a search, but couldn't really find much about this topic.
That week I had eaten a few protein bars,
I know these things might have some body-building chemicals in them, but I only ate a few. The one thing I was using
consistently though, was the -mones (I was wearing Chikara almost every day).
I'm a little worried right now. I
stopped eating the protein bars, and I'm not going to use the -mones on a regular basis for the next month until my
next blood test to see if anything improves.
I would stop on the
protein bars but keep going on the mones. If you stop both, and your blood test comes back good, then you wont know
which was causing it.
Blessed are the cross-eyed, for they shall see God twice.
Products I own: AE/m, APC/m, NPA/m, TE/m, SPMO, SOE/m, WAGG, Perception, EW, Chikara
You don't want to mess with
your liver. You want to get to the bottom of it. I would go on a liver-friendly lifestyle until that time, and do a
liver/intestinal cleanse. That means not giving it excess chemicals of any kind to deal with.
Last edited by DrSmellThis; 10-02-2004 at 09:18 PM.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
Liver cleanse might be a good
idea. I've been wanting to do one for months... but I've never really gotten around to actually doing it.
Know that different parts
within the body work together as a whole, in a very intimate way. You have to do an intestinal cleanse with liver
cleanse, IMO, as the liver empties its waste into the intestines. Clean, happy intestines signal the liver its OK
for it to cleanse, and prime the pump, so to speak. Both seem mandatory, as some liver tests don't show up anything
until like 80% reduced functioning.
No alcohol or drugs at this point, obviously. I'd even limit nutritional
supplements to those absolutely necessary. You might even want to limit colognes for a while, unless a small amount
of something natural doesn't bother you. Even sandalwood in quantity over time can affect the liver, though. If it
was me I'd quit everything for a while, even deodorants.
You want to start supporting the liver (e.g.,
great products like TAPS and SAT from Thorne -- Google it.) before doing a "hard core, ream it out" cleanse (e.g.,
Bupleurium Liver Cleanse, by Thorne), to be gentle, gradual and allow healing. Keep the "support" going throughout.
Michael's Tri-Cleanse plus a couple bottles of a good multi-strain refrigerated probiotic --as well as diet changes
-- would be a good way to go for the intestines. Lots of water, obviously; and a slice of lemon can help. You can
make a liver friendly salad dressing from lemon, fresh olive oil (nothing open and non-refrigerated) and molasses.
Lots of fibrous veggies. Limit simple sugars when cleansing intestines. Lecithin, alpha-lipoic acid, and b-vitamins
are good for the liver, and healthy fatty acids (e.g., flax, borage, or fish oils) are good for both. Chilled aloe
vera juice with a little lemon for flavor can be a gentle way to start too.
Last edited by DrSmellThis; 10-02-2004 at 09:24 PM. Reason: added a supplement
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
I've personally tested many body-buildersOriginally Posted by Snoopy
who used excessive amounts of anabolic steroids (usually injectables) and never known any of them to have any sign
of liver damage. I'm also very familiar with transdermal testosterone usage, and any dose that might be damaging to
a "normal" man would be extremely costly (30 packets of androgel--typically would last a month, cost approx $180)
Linking pheromone products to liver damage would be like linking everyday exposure to other men or women to liver
damage.
On the other hand, your doc's approach might merely have been a passing thought if your total
protein level happened to be high. Why not ask him why he thought you might be using steroids or other supplements.
Which test made him think this? I've got a 30 year work history in clinical laboratory testing. You could look up
any test via an internet search and be much more informed about what the doc had in
mind.
JVK
A little off the subject,
but your oral anabolics are very serious with the liver... Such as DBols and Anavar. they can raise your values way
out of proportion, and cause serious damage quick... Also your Methylated Prohormones are quite hepatoxic to your
liver... a steady regimine of Milk Thistle and R-ALA helps alot.. in fact your liver will thank you for it... even
if you dont take these anabolics... taking care of your liver is one of the best ways to keep from illnesses and
such.
Also try Liv.52 tablets... that is a nice combination of cleansers and protectants for your liver.
Adams
Oh yeah... and unless these
protien bars are either 12 years old, or bought from your local roid provider... I can 99% gaurantee it isnt
them.
Adams
Guys, can you tell me more about
liver cleanse? Where can I read more about it? Also, is there any other type of cleanse, like a Kidney cleanse?
I'd also like to
know which values were elevated...even moderate amounts of transdermal steroidals (4-AD, nordiol, test base, etc) do
not significantly affect enzyme levels. The most marked elevation will come with 17a-alkylated compounds like
M-1-T, dbol, etc.
I'd recommend Milk Thistle for liver support...
Bobby
I can't say exactly what may
be causing your elevated liver readings. But I suspect it could be a number of things rather than the pheromones.
I've been battling with a liver problem for about 5 years now. I also had elevated liver enzymes which required
some investigation to find the cause. My elevated liver readings were caused by, of all things, fat depositing in my
liver. This is a condition known as either fatty liver (mild version) or non-alcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH.)
Essentially it is a condition where fat builds up in your liver causing the elevated readings. I would tend to think
that your elevated readings are caused by something like this, rather than by pheromones.
The condition I
described is more prevalent in people who are obese, but in my case I am a skinny guy and still have this problem
when I put on some weight. So, I don't know what your situation is, but just offer this as an alternate suggestion
for what could be causing it. I'm certainly not a doctor nor am I in a position to diagnose your liver problem. You
should continue to work with your doctor to determine what's causing the problem for you. However, in my case, I
got my liver readings back in check by going on a low fat diet, and losing about 15 pounds (although I really
wasn't overeweight to begin with.) But, I now pretty much know where I have to keep my weight to keep the liver
readings in line. I've been using pheromones for a little over 2 years now and they didn't cause my liver readings
to go up during that time.
Lecithin is very good for
cleansing fat out of your liver, from all I've heard. You can buy the grains cheaply in bulk and put it in a
smoothie by the tablespoon. It actually improves the taste of a smoothie. Of course, when you have a serious medical
condition you need to consult with your doctor before trying something new.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
Milk thistle is indeed the basic herb for that,
but it works best in combination, as with the SAT (which adds equal amounts of tumeric and artichoke, FYI) and TAPS
products. They really make a difference in how you feel if your liver is challenged.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
Doc,
What are the SAT and
TAPS products and where can you get 'em?
And are no. 2 pencil and bugle required?
If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen
Holmes' Theme Song
Thorne Research. They are one
of the most reputable sources of nutritional products in the world. The problem is I think you might have to be a
practitioner to get the products directly from the company. I know of two places here in Portland you can get them.
But here is the information on their hepatic products:
[url="http://www.thorne.com/pdf/4color/hepatic_support.pdf"]http://www.thorne.com/pdf/4color/hepatic_support.pdf[/
url]
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
All very true except for the Anavar. Anavar is one of the gentlest oral steroids.
You might have meant to say Anadrol?(very toxic)
Thanks!
If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen
Holmes' Theme Song
Man you guys are great! . I've
never seen such support from users. I'm impressed - good people!
Upside Down, you should check
out the Thorne link too -- there's stuff listed for your condition.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
Ahh... good catch... must have been typing to fast. Though still worse on your liver than say your
transdermals, or your safer injectables.
Adams
Are transdermals - like
fat-burners, etc. - really that hard on the liver?
If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen
Holmes' Theme Song
Not in the least (Even Transdermal Prohormones and such, have shown to be all around gentle in all aspects)... though I wouldnt go with transdermal Fat Burners myself... maybe a little transdermal yohimbine.. but anything else is pretty worthless.
E/C stack is my favorite myself. THough it is oral.
Adams
Sweet!
I got some Avant Labs Lipoderm Ultra a while ago but have been afraid to use it because of liver and raised blood pressure (as caused by Yohimbe) issues.
If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen
Holmes' Theme Song
You dont have to worry... cause the actual amount that is absorbed into the blood stream is minimal... its mostly taken up by the fatty tissues, you shouldnt get to much of the stimulating effects, therefore, blood pressure shouldnt even fluctuate.
adams
That's great news. Thanks!
If a guy's a cocksucker in his life, when he dies, he don't become a saint. - Morris Levy, Hitmen
Holmes' Theme Song
Thorough blood tests and monitoring your blood
pressure important !
a couple of potentially life saving suggestions for all concerned. I would
STRONGLY suggest that every person over thirty years of age own a good quality blood pressure meter. I have an old
Omron Hem-707 that i bought at the medical school bookstore 10 years ago and it never let me down. The readings are
always very close to the doc's mercury column reading. High blood pressure is insidious. It can sneak up on you out
of nowhere and it it a dangerous condition. Nothing wears out you circulatory system as efficiently as HPB will, and
it sets the stage for other organ injuries. Each of us has a different biochemistry. Chocolate elevates my blood
pressure (contains theobromine and theophylline) but caffeine doesn't have much effect on me. Emotional stress,
keeping up with the Jonses, combined with lack of exercise, and maybe a decongestant, and kaboom, you could be
pushing 160/95 before you know it. A good idea is to read your BP WEELKY and see if any lifestyle or dietary changes
are affecting you. Be smart. Buy a good one with an inflatable arm cuff, read BOTH your left and right arms, and
your "true" pressure will be the average of the two.
The second thing I would recommend is join the Life
Extension Foundation at lef.org. LEF has a great discount group blood testing purrchasing program. You will be able
to obtain the blood tests YOU want for 1/3 of the standard list prices (which are a massive rip off brought to you
courtesy of your corrupt medical system) and your results will be CONFIDENTIAL... yes, you will have to pay for
them, but nobody but you needs to know the results unless you want them to. They offer many more tests than they
show on their website. Ask them to fax or mail you their complete walk in form.
Liver problems can be tricky
to diagnose. I'd ask for the full blood chemistry screen (this is the run of the mill, touches all bases, SMAC or
SMA-20 test), as well as the GGT (gamma glutamyl transferase, tests for liver duct injury), Hepatitis A+B
antibodies, as Hep A is coming into the USA with immigrant restaurant workers (a smart thing is to have your hep A
and Hep B vaccination series, expensive but worth it, a bargain compared to Hep B should you ever be so unfortunate
as to contract it), you might want to run a thyroid function test (t3,t4, TSH), I was taking a DHEA isomer called
7-keto-DHEA for weight loss until I picked up that it was disturbing my thyroid output. MY TSH levels kept climbing,
meaning my thyroid was producing less and less hormone. Quit the 7-keto and my TSH fell back to normal. End of the
7-keto adventure.
The C-Reactive Protein test is often considered a cardiovascular health test, everyone should
have it regardless, CRP will elevate in a wide number of inflammatory disease conditions, so LEF offers it as part
of their package deal. You might want to get their "Male Panel" plus Thyroid, plus Hep (A,B,C), GGT, and if you want
to get tweaky, there's the SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) which, if too high can surpress your hormones by
binding to them in you blood and if too low can result in your being overdosed by your own hormone output. SHBG can
be influenced by thyroid function, etc.
Nice post. Especially
interesting is the internet blood test thing. As the health care system continues to collapse, and be sure that it
will, "webical care" will become more and more important.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
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