Less is Less More is More?
I was browsing
around the fourms and I kinda get the impression that guys like myself are getting more bang (no pun intended) with
the more is better technique, this is rather interesting because we were taught that less was actually more
effective.
I'm sure body chemistry might be a factor, what are your thoughts.
DCW
I think individual body
chemistry and specific -mones being used are both factors. Basically, in a nutshell, the more -mones you naturally
produce, the less you should apply.
Lower natural -mone production + Higher -mone usage = GOOD
Higher
natural -mone production + Lower -mone usage = GOOD
A balance...
Another point to keep in mind is
phero build-up.
User 1 gets a brand new product, never used pheros before, takes a hot shower and does
what seems like a major OD: results... incredible
User 2 has been using pheros for years, gets in a rut with
using Primal every day; already has a build up OD going on. He's in a slump, reads about somebody's great OD
results, doubles his normal Primal application. Same thing the next day. Results are bad. Then he says "the hell
with it", takes a shower and the next day wears no pheromones. If you've read the forum for you long, you know
what happens next... He has great results. So sometimes zero is more, and often that is what happens when someone
merely reduces the amount and announces that "less is more".
Bruce
none
yep, it's true. I have my
very best luck after just getting them in the mail and it tapers off gradually - I have to stop wearing them
everyday!!!
Interesting..Interesting would a
slight application to clothes help defeat the OD then.
DCW
Then you have bacteria
factors. Pheromones are challenging to use in the long term. Plus it's summer in the North.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
Theres no way I could wear mones
everyday. I'am definetly susceptible to buildup...I wear a small amount a couple of times in the week & save
larger doses & more none heavy products for the weekend. You can wear mones on a regular basis but not everyday
IMO.
So your's saying that on clothes is a bad idea?Originally Posted by DrSmellThis
Suppose you applied some to a shirt then
after your evening is through you put the shirt in the laudry, I wasn't thinking of a long duration, I have to ask
because some of my best hits came with a slight application to my shirt.
DCW
This more/less thing has been
discussed back and forth since the beginning. Bruce seems to have the best new insight here.
No, I'm not saying
clothes are a bad idea. It's fine.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
Excellent timing! I was just
thinking today how I applied SOE in substantial quanity yesterday so today I will use just a dab here and there. I
found more attention today than yesterday? Maybe all I need is a dab or two but can a female really be effected by
just say two dabs? Anyway I think every other day I may do the "just a few dabs thing then on every third day I will
take a day off or two.
Try day 1:average amount
Day 2: just a few dabs on pulse points on the neck
Day 3:
off, then maybe day 4 off if you think it works for you.
Then just repeat. I think it should actually be
applied as normal then just slightly boosted from there on out of the cycle till you take a few days off.
I stopped applying the
pheromones on Saturday because I am currently visiting family and not looking for hits. Interest from women dropped
off but is still obvious. I don't think buildup is the issue a lot of guys here make of it. Attention from women
will drop off for any number of reasons. You have to try long-term experiments as well as short-term experiments to
see what works for you.
You also have to change yourself, not just your pheromone signature. If you dress
poorly, behave like a shy boy, treat women badly, don't bathe, etc. then simply putting on pheromones may get you
some curious looks but you still have the real problem to fix.
Most men should be able to get SOME attention
from women just by being confident and well-dressed. Learning to listen rather than just telling the women about
yourself helps too. A lot of guys think they have to tell women everything about themselves and the women get
bored. Women like to dig for information. They enjoy the challenge of probing a mystery man and figuring him
out.
I think most guys start using pheromones with the hope they will magically turn their lives around. You
have to change yourself for real if you don't have what you want in your life. Pheromones can make that easier but
they are not the cure for the problem.
Friendly,
You make that assertion in two seperate
posts. I think you are omiting some facts. How do you account for the number of reports of people who get better
hits the day after an apparent OD? Or even after just using mones one day and not the next. A number of
knowledgeable people have commented on the possible/probable absorbtion of pheromone compounds into the skin.
I
know from my own experiments that there are results that can only be accounted for by buildup. Don't completely
discount it because there is evidence that it does happen. How often is anybody's guess but some seem to think it
is pretty common.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
It really depends on the person.
People who don't get build-up need to be able to look outside themselves and understand that pheromones act
differently on them than they do on others.
Other than that, he made some good points from "Learning to
listen" on down
Oh, I agree completely. I just hate to see others
possibly being misled by one user's opinion. There is just too much evidence that indicates it happens to
completely ignore it or deny it happens.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
I think we are coming to the
same conclusion here as at my home board. Everybody will be different and react differently to different amounts of
things. Some people can really break down/hide these things well naturally, while others can't. It's just a "game"
of experimenting and finding out what works for you. Unfortuanetly it's not as easy as with lifting, because you
are judging others' reactions and not your own.;
MB
"You are a sick f*ck, but I wouldn't have you any other way."
~Becca
Insufficient information for
anyone to know what is really going on.
I think the suggestions people get are good suggestions. But there
isn't enough information about how to go about determining if one is experiencing a buildup.
A typical
discussion goes something like:
"I tried 1/3 of an SOE gel pack and went to a party. No one looked at me."
(PROBLEM: How do we know no one looked at him? How observant is he? What does he qualify as "looking at" him?)
"Well, maybe you used too much. Try backing off."
"Okay, today I used 1/20 of a gel pack and I went down the
street. No one looked at me."
"Maybe you have buildup. Try going without for a couple of days and see what
happens."
"Hey. Today a girl at work said 'Hi'. So, less is more is proved right again."
Sorry. That
fish won't swim. Before I agree some guy I don't know has buildup, I have to see something more informative. How
long does it take to get a buildup? How often can you bathe and still get a buildup? What are the clinical signs
of a buildup? Why doesn't anyone go into these details before concluding some guy who isn't getting laid at every
party has buildup?
If you want proof that buildup is
real, just don't shower or use water only showers. Use none-products daily at normal to high levels.
Sorry, but I haven't seen ANY
evidence that it happens as often as you guys make it sound like it happens.
None of you are posting any
scientifically valid data to support your arguments.
If a serious researcher or product supplier steps up and
says, "Buildup happens", great. I will accept that.
But I will NOT accept that it happens because five people
post in a discussion that it has happened.
Take what Metroman wrote:
Okay, now if Metroman has posted about his buildup in theTheres no way I could wear mones
everyday. I'am definetly susceptible to buildup
past, I missed it. I have NOT read every discussion here, and I don't remember all the discussions I have read.
But why should ANYONE believe this statement by Metroman?
Where is the guide for testing for pheromone
buildup?
In my opinion, it is...I wear a small amount a couple of times in the week & save larger doses & more none heavy
products for the weekend. You can wear mones on a regular basis but not everyday IMO.
okay to wear pheromones every day. I do, except when I am around my relatives for long periods of time. Then I
ease up.
But there are a lot of factors that are never taken into consideration:
Environment
Hygiene
Cultural area
Pheromones being used
Desired hits
Attitude of the target toward the
wearer
I mean, some guys come in here hoping to get their old girlfriends back with the help of pheromones.
Some guys come in here hoping to get laid at every party.
Most guys will never accomplish those goals. There is
nothing wrong with trying, except most guys who do so are setting themselves up for a world of disappointment. Oh
well. Let them live and learn.
But I just don't see how it is okay to keep hammering on these guys about their
buildup when there is no evidence they actually HAVE any buildup.
How long does it take for the hypothetical
average guy to build up too much Androstenone residue? Does it matter if he bathes once a day? Some days, I take
two showers. Does it matter if he is only putting the stuff on his wrists? What if he puts it on his chest like I
do?
I see no attempts to be discerning in these buildup discussions. They are just not credible in
themselves.
To KNOW something is happening because of buildup, you have to rule out everything else: bad breath,
bad behavior, bad clothing, lack of self-control, lack of self-confidence, inadequate conversational skills, etc.
So, I hate to see guys get into these discussions only to be told they are probably experiencing buildup without
anyone checking to see what else might be going on.
Most guys screw up in social situations long before they
realize they have. I am STILL pulling my foot out of my mouth on an almost weekly basis. I get good results with
the pheromones, but I get good results in spite of them, too. And I get bad results in spite of them.
There is
just too much on the plate for us to know by osmosis whether a guy's problem is buildup or anything else.
Any
guess is as good or bad as any other guess. It isn't doing anyone any good to just lump everything in with
buildup.
That is a card played too often.
Whats that gonna prove?
That’s like me saying I'm going to work in a sewer and only
rinse off at the end of the day with water, of course the guy who uses soap is going to get a more effective
cleansing with less sewer "build up".
If I don't shower daily I'm going to have more perspiration "build
up" than I would showering daily or in my case twice daily.
Get the point
DCW
What I want is for the pro-buildup theorists to find out first what the facts are before
concluding that someone's problem is buildup.
I have read way too many discussions where someone has suggested
another guy has buildup without going to any trouble to learn anything about the guy's personal habits.
That
just doesn't hold water. It's bad advice even if, in some cases, it may turn out to be true.
A guy could get
good hits without pheromones. I always had good response from women when I was happy, well-dressed, and kicking
with a sense of humor. I turned to the pheromones because I wanted to see women's reactions more clearly.
Pheromones draw people out of their defenses. Sometimes they inspire people to RAISE their defenses. But I am
not seeing anything with the pheromones that I didn't see before I started wearing them.
I AM seeing a lot more
than I used to see. I like seeing these kinds of reactions. It has helped my confidence a lot. So has learning to
read body language. So has learning to dress myself well.
I think a contrary point of view is valuable. Guys
who are new to this environment need to understand that you cannot just assume a failure to get results has anything
to do with the pheromones.
We are responsible for our successes and failures in life. Not the pheromones.
By the same token, why should I or anybody else accept that there is no build up issue
based on the scepticism of one slightly experienced user when more experienced users believe they are seeing that
effect themselves? Telling somebody that it does not exist is equally bad advice.
I don't rely on the limited
experience of the beginning users that you are citing. I do rely on the observations of serious pheromone users and
my own experiments in a remarkably controlled situation. Personally, I think most of the observations I see here are
far to subjective and don't take them into account other than as interesting possibilities. However, I do keep my
mind open and try to understand how they may fit into the big picture instead of rejecting them because they don't
fit my opinions.
I don't recall any thread where an experienced user jumped to the conclusion that the problem
was build up. Possibly OD, but not build up.
To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
Obviously there wouldn't be
any controlled scientific studies on this at this time.
something that has developed over years of practical experiences of regular pheromone users. It's not so easy to
just dismiss. Of course, we need more information, but that's why we're having the discussion. Right now anecdotal
is the best we have, as for most other issues of practical phero use.
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
none
well, for me - I'm going
back to clothing application instead of skin. I've been wearing mones every day and seeing a gradual decline in
effectiveness. I haven't changed otherwise so there must be some build-up although I can't prove it.
7 more to 3000, DST!!
I know, that's a lot of
typing, especially since my posts tend to be quite verbacious!
DrSmellThis (creator of P H E R O S)
I think I'd rather have buildup on me than in my clothing. My skin replaces itself and comes
with a renewable cleaning process. My clothing, OTOH, has a destructive cleaning process and doesn't clean itself
naturally.
Speaking from my own experience of two years with pheromones, I've seen things come and go in
cycles. More than anything, I think what the issue is is that you get used to certain reactions, and only the
crotch-grabbing and DIHLs stick out. Smiles and flattery happen all the time once you learn what works for you where
and when, so they become commonplace and pedestrian. Women invading my personal space is something that I've simply
adjusted to. Similarly, unprovoked smiles and eye contact is just part of the deal.
I wear my mones pretty
much every day. The basic is two dabs (from a dram vial) of PI/m and two of PI/w. Up the m when I need to be a bit
stronger, up the f when I need to be a bit more friendly. If I'm going out or I'm wearing for more social reasons,
it's time to bust out the AE/m, SOE, NPA/m, TE/w, Pheros, Chikara, or any of the other goodies I've picked up. By
and large, the PI's cover me for daily wear. Still though, I like playing around, even mixing with various and
sundry e-oils (I had a sandalwood, vanilla, ylang ylang, and jasmine thing I was grooving on this
weekend).
For my money, buildup, if it exists (and this is a big assumption, as far as I'm concerned), is
natural, good, and something to simply be accounted for in dosing yourself. It's like having four drinks, waiting
one hour, and having another versus waiting three hours and having three. Know your limits, know where you are, and
proceed with caution. You don't have to be straight sober to have another drink, and similarly, you don't have to
be completely clean and clear to apply more -mones.
I tend to alternate the type of
pheromones that I apply so that I don't have a consectutive application of any certain type of 'mone or an
application of products that tilt towards a particular 'mone in their chemical composition. (e.g. - Monday I might
throw on the PI, RM, NPA, or TE , but on Tuesday, SOE or AE gets applied, and on Wednesday it might be either PF,
PX, or a super secret home job mix that has rocked and shocked the panties off some boogaloo hot bisquits of
late.).
I think that you can use 'mones on a daily basis, and easily avoid a pheromone build up by smart
application and making sure that you have a fully loaded, well stocked arsenal at hand that enables the user to
change up daily.
In addition, and relative to the original posting, I have consistently found that less is
indeed more in all respects with the singular exception of bedtime/playtime applications. When the skyrockets are
in flight and the expectations high and everything is ready to roll, a little bit more of a pheromone application is
a good thing. Tends to drive the natural, primal, carnal side to a more base and aggressive level. A double dose
or more of the right 'mones in these specific instances is more than acceptable (and personally recommended).
However, correct amounts in the correct application points with particular pheromone products are key in such
situations for illicting the desired response(s).
I am not telling anyone that buildup doesn't exist. I am
expressing reasonable doubts about the all-too frequent conclusion that people are experiencing buildup.
Your
experience, mine, and the beginners' experiences aren't what you should be relying upon to help them determine if
they have a buildup problem.
What you should be relying upon is what they say about their pheromone use, their
habits, and their activities. That is all that can be used to objectively determine if they are building up
pheromone residues in their skins.
You guys areObviously
there wouldn't be any controlled scientific studies on this at this time.
but this issue is something that has developed over years of practical experiences of regular pheromone users. It's
not so easy to just dismiss. Of course, we need more information, but that's why we're having the discussion.
Right now anecdotal is the best we have, as for most other issues of practical phero use.
turning this into a discussion of whether buildup occurs. I have stopped questioning whether it occurs and I accept
that it does.
My skepticism is only for the way several people here SEEM (to me) to immediately jump to the
unwarranted conclusion that someone else is experiencing buildup.
We can deduce much from anecdotes, but we need
a lot of anecdotal information to have a good chance to help new users figure out what (if anything) is going
wrong.
More patience, further questioning, and less enthusiasm for jumping to conclusions will help this
community achieve better analyses overall.
The "less is more" philosophy, combined with the issue of buildup, have led me to conclude a
number of things I have not shared here.
I think that buildup, as explained by Bruce and a couple of others,
makes sense. I don't think it necessarily is a bad thing. I may change my mind on that.
Buildup seems to
substantively alter your pheromone signature, at least for an extended period of time if not permanently.
How
long does it take for a buildup to dissipate or otherwise revert to a normal level? Depends on amount of buildup
and hygiene, right? There must be a plateau point where your body doesn't accrete any more pheromones, or it is
only replacing older pheromones.
So, if we assume that someone has built up a large residue, then that is
similar to a strong application or OD. Over time, you could have the same pheromone signature through buildup that
you can achieve with a heavy dose.
So, what happens? I think that people become acclimated to your pheromone
signature over time. You can still get positive results from the same people if other factors are provoked. You
can also bomb out if someone writes you off.
With new people, buildup can still be an overwhelming experience.
Overwhelming is not necessarily a bad thing. If you want people to notice you, then using pheromones to scream in a
crowd is one way to be noticed.
But if you are constantly screaming in someone's ear, there comes a point where
they need a little quiet time. You can grant them peace by withdrawing for a while.
I have tried to observe
some people who worked with me over a long period of time. I think the older people became more adjusted to my
strong pheromone signature. They were used to me. There was one young girl, married, who constantly preened and
stroked her hair in my presence, even after working with me for almost two years. She was visibly nervous in my
presence. I think it may have been a good nervousness due to underlying excitement, but she could also have just
been creeped out by the effect but too polite to act that way.
My dance teacher, who got the full effect of the
pheromones several times a week, was pleasant and sexy right up to the end. She was definitely sexy when her butt
ended up in my hand. But she was always laughing and smiling. Rarely got angry with me. I had a good
student-teacher relationship with her and everyone else thought something was going on between us. We were always
joking and teasing each other.
I know one guy became more aggressive toward me and the women around us over
time. I think he was reacting to my strong pheromone signature as well as my status in the group. I was there
when the group started and he came along later.
In short, I think that powerful pheromone signatures get you the
kind of "Whoa!" results you want, but if people continue to hang with you, they start to adjust to your signature
according to their maturity and experience.
Some people just learn to tune you out if they are older, in stable
relationships, and not open to new relationships. They will be friendlier but not sexually open.
Some people
will become agitated, maybe in a good way, maybe in a competitive way. The frequent exposure to your signature may
become a limiting factor in your relationship with these people.
Some people will accomodate or welcome your
continued presence. They feel that spark and like it and want it to continue.
By comparison with other people,
you seem different. You can make that difference seem good or desirable or you can make it seem bad or undesirable
by the way you treat people and how you interact with them.
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