Fahrenheit 911

[koolking1]

Pretty decent movie

but he's preaching to the choir, hope it works though but the alternative seems dismal to me. Call me Mr

Optimism!!!

[a.k.a.]

Pretty decent movie

but he's preaching to the choir

I must be in the choir, because I think it rocks.
I laughed, cried,

cheered, cursed and left the theater feeling like I’d really gotten my money's worth. (No small compliment given

today’s ticket prices.)

Of course I would never recommend this to anybody that honestly believes W is doing a

good job for national security. I imagine anybody coming at it from that perspective would experience this film as a

relentless barrage of lies and slander, viciously aimed at a man that is only doing his best under the worst of

circumstances.

But if you’re even the least bit skeptical about the views being broadcast on the major news

networks, this film will give you something to think about. At the very least, you will see the faces of those who

profit most and those who suffer most from Bush’s policies. Hopefully this will motivate people to ask

“Why?”.

All politics aside. I think it was an excellent piece of film-making. Moore crammed a lot of

information and opinions into a relatively short time frame, and (unlike his previous films) he did it in an easy to

follow and systematic manner. There were many evocative moments, expertly captured, and an artful balance of

seemingly incongruent emotions. Very tight editing, quick paced, and extremely provocative.

It’s a shame that

only 800 some theaters are showing it. (I also feel the R rating was undeserved: two minutes of rock lyrics that

would have earned a Parental Advisory on CD and images of war that are no worst than the stuff being broadcast on

every major news outlet outside of the US.)

[Holmes]

Pretty decent

movie but he's preaching to the choir.

Precisely.

I think it was an excellent piece of

film-making.

Yup.

[metroman]

Nice review AKA!

I

guess its not objective analysis like I had said on another thread but I wouldn't go so far as to say its

propaganda as I've heard numerous times from major media outlets. The embeded journalists were as close as you

could get to organised government propaganda while the so called "major combat" portion of this war was taking

place. I'm chomping at the bit to see this movie...

[Whitehall]

I read

a review of F-9/11 in the local alternative weekly. As a liberal, trendy tabloid, it was laudatory, of course, but

largely on political common ground.

The author did quote Pauline Kael, the renowed movie critic and author

of "I Lost it at the Movies" in her review of an earlier Moore movie, "Roger and Me". She admitted that she had

some laughs at Roger Smith, the then CEO of General Motors and target of the film.

"But the film I saw was

shallow and facetious, a piece of gonzo demagoguery that made me feel cheap for laughing."



That's the way I felt too about "Roger and Me" and why I'll not see F-9/11.

[metroman]

I just thought I'd throw this

into the mix...I agree with Icke in that it doesn't go far enough in exposing the multitude of holes that the

"Official Stroy" has in it...Where is the exposure of the PNAC (Project for a New American Century) paper drafted by

the neocons and their stated need to have a "New Pearl Harbor" to initiate their imperialist agenda?



FAHREN-HYPE 9/11

MOORE MOVIE BIGGER ON PROMOTION
THAN CUTTING EDGE CONTENT

By David Icke



I've just watched the Michael Moore documentary, Fahrenheit 9/11, on its first day of public screening in the

United States.

First of all it is great to see that information kept from the people, basic as it is in this

documentary, is being made available to counter some of the massive bias in the mainstream media. To Americans who

know nothing about the political and media manipulation it will be a revelation, but those who have done a modicum

of research will find little here to increase their awareness.

The documentary misses an enormous

opportunity to reveal the true scale of the conspiracy behind 9/11 and current events. It reveals that Bush is a

lazy, incompetent fool; that the bombing of Iraq caused horrific civilian casualties; that US troops are being

killed and maimed to defend an invasion justified by a Big Lie; that the parents of those civilians and troops

suffer unspeakable emotional trauma from losing their loved ones; that Bush was scammed into power at the last

election; that the Bush family has serious connections to the Bin Laden family and the Saudi royals; and that the

corporate cartels make fortunes both from supplying the weapons to destroy cities and infrastructure and then by

're-building' the devastated countries and seizing control of their resources, like oil.

All this

information needed to be included, of course, but it is widely available either by scanning a vast stream of

Internet sites or often even through some parts of the mainstream media. In the case of Bush being a lazy,

incompetent fool, you only need your eyes and a few brain cells.

I have seen BBC documentaries about the

government/media slanting of the invasion of Iraq and the way the U.S. authorities are targeting the poor and

jobless to join the military that tell the same story that Moore does.

Yes, it is good that Americans are

getting a chance to see such material, but to justify the colossal hype this documentary has received it surely

should have gone much further and produced background that would never be found in any mainstream media source.

After all, it cannot be claimed that such information is not available to Michael Moore.

Most disappointing

was the way he accepts and perpetutates the official 9/11 story that it was orchestrated by Osama bin Laden via 19

Arab terrorists, mostly Saudis, who learned to fly jumbo jets at one engine, two-seater, flying schools. This is

blatantly ludicrous and the information to expose such nonsense can, once again, be found at a long list of 9/11

websites and books.

In fact, I sent a copy of Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Center Disaster to

Michael Moore some 18 months or so ago when he was speaking in London. Some of the most basic information in the

book and on the Internet is included in the film, but the most important background to 9/11 is not even

mentioned.

As with Bowling for Columbine, Moore picks an easy and obvious target while often massively

missing the point. Getting rid of Bush is not going to change anything except the rhetoric and the presentation. The

agenda will continue whichever of them should win. Where was the fact that both Bush and Kerry are initiates of the

same elite and Skull and Bones Society, for example, which both refuse to talk about?

Any suggestion that

Iraq was about more than just oil and money or that there is a conspiracy behind world events is not even mentioned,

except for one contributor who tells us that there is no conspiracy to control the world. It is all just about

money, he said.

Where was the story of the Project for the New American Century and its document that sets

out the very agenda for global conquest involving Iraq, Iran, North Korea and China, etc., which the Bush

administration has been slavishly following since it came to power under the control of the very people behind the

PNAC? Where was the fact that the document said a year before 9/11 that its agenda would be slow to unfold 'absent

some catastrophic and catalysing event like a new Pearl Harbor' and that after the 'new Pearl Harbor' of 9/11

those horrific attacks have been used to rapidly advance the PNAC agenda?

These were among many such glaring

omissions.

I am delighted the movie is out there, disappointing as I found the depth of research, but the

danger is that people will think they now know the information that has been kept from them and therefore fail to

realise that Moore has about 2% of the real background to global events and control. Or that they will focus

themselves on targeting and removing Bush when he is just a puppet and Kerry would be another.

Outside the

theatre where I watched the documentary there were activists seeking to use it to attract support for anti-Bush

campaigns and to register to vote when the system is so rigged that voting is a quaint irrelevance.

Michael

Moore could have used his high public profile and film-making resources to show people the far more fundamental

background to global control, the emerging global fascist state, and the real road to freedom.

Instead,

unless people realise this is only part - and a small part - of the story behind global events this movie will lead

them into another cul-de-sac.

Fahrenheit 9/11 could have been a fantastic contribution to human understanding

of the forces that manipulate the global population. Instead, I thought it was far too timid, limited and

one-dimensional.

It is worth seeing if you know nothing of the world beyond the official story, but what an

opportunity lost.

[metroman]

Welcome back Whitehall! Your

presence was sorely missed!

[Holmes]

So what course of action would Mr.

Icke have us take in November?

[metroman]

So what course of

action would Mr. Icke have us take in November?

Vote for Sponge Bob Square

Pants...

Seriously dont vote...If nobody votes it a stands as a referendum that the current system is

completely broken & bankrupt. I love it when MTV & these other outlets try to instill a sense amongst the

population (especially the young)that to "vote" is fulfilling some kind of prideful civic duty and that we should

feel proud as Americans to have this glorious privilege...

First off: The people vote for electors in the

Electoral College & they decide who is going to be the next head of state, not the people...& secondly the whole

thing is rigged which was evidenced the last time around in 2000.

To be honest I really dont know what

Icke's personal stand on Nov 2004 is, these are just my own feelings on the matter.

[DrSmellThis]

Obviously there wasn't going

to be enough conspiracy theory in the film for Icke. He has killed whatever potential his own ideas might

have had for people by stubbornly attaching them to "lizards"! He should make his own film with all that.

Yet,

there really aren't enough "alternative" news items in the mainstream media. This is an obvious, huge

problem in our culture (not only ours). The amount of truly first-rate and crucial information about our current

government that we haven't been exposed to, and yet should be, seems truly vast to me -- way moreso than for any

other administration in my lifetime. My family in the midwest seemingly knows of no reason to be angry at our

government for anything, and they "watch the news" every night. Alternative information is a bit easier to come by

in the Pacific Northwest.

Farenheit seems an important film for and within the current world dialogue, and

apparently a well-made film, judging from the reviews so far. Staying in touch with the current national and

international dialogue should be enough of a benefit for those who see it. I'd think anyone who likes to stay open

minded would want to consider the alternative information it offers as well.

But I can understand that

conservatives have been tempted to prejudge it as "worthless propaganda and lies". I'm saddened that Moore has

mishandled some information in the past, as Whitehall points out; as this "Karma" is subtracting from the potential

impact of Farenheit.

Still, I'll be seeing the film soon.

[koolking1]

It's definitely worth

seeing but for someone who does read the alternative news widely available on the internet, it will seem somewhat

lacking in many respects. We still need a viable 3rd party and it seems that once again I'll have no one to vote

for. I did vote in the Dem primary but that too was wasted. Perhaps to make a point, it might be a grand idea to

have a vote for "nobody running".

[metroman]

Obviously

there wasn't going to be enough conspiracy theory in the film for Icke. He has killed whatever potential his

own ideas might have had for people by stubbornly attaching them to "lizards"! He should make his own film with all

that.

I love it when the Lizards get singled out for so much incredulity...Let me see: Jesus,

Mohammed, Jeovah, Buddah, Lizards...they're all equally plausible as far as I can see...

I liked some of

"Bowling for Columbine", Moore's gun control screed (I've been waiting to use that word)...Obviously the grilling

he gave Charleton Heston at the end was a bit overkill & I think it backfired on him...Overall I think all of Moores

flicks are meant as a "tounge in cheek" treatment of some very serious issues...I think he does this in attempt to

engage as broad an audience as possible, but he risks coming across as being condescending, so I think he does

alienate some...

Personally I'm against gun control...Hitler, Stalin & most dictators were & are in favor of

it because the last thing they want is an armed populace able to defend themselves...

[Whitehall]

For

those of you who have seen or plan to see F-9/11, compare it to "Triumph of the Will" by Leni Reifenstahl. The

latter is probably the most renown (and notorious) propaganda film ever made.

Setting aside the issue of

subject personalities, "Triumph" is a more honest, better-made film!

[Holmes]

"Triumph of the

Will" by Leni Reifenstahl.

Hard to beat. (Subject personalities aside.)

[DrSmellThis]

I can't disagree, because I

haven't seen either film.

[einstein]

I saw Micheal Moore on the Tavis

Smiley show last night. It was nice to see an intelligent, humble liberal on TV. Much better than Al Franken,

whose main goal is to piss off conservatives rather than do anything productive. Moore also has the lastest PLayboy

interview, which I haven't read yet. I might after seeing him last night.

[Kari]

I LOVED the thing! Didn't tell me

anything I didn't know but... sure was good hearing it from Moore! Good thing we bought our tickets on line, BTW--

long lines, sold-out shows.

[Don Tego]

Well here is a movie coming out

this summer on Moore. Interesting huh!



http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com

[Kari]

Well here is a movie

coming out this summer on Moore. Interesting huh!





http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com

Yeah..

I think there's a book too.. "Michael Moore is a Dumb Fat White Guy".. somethinh like that.

[Holmes]

Well here is a

movie coming out this summer on Moore. Interesting huh!





http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com

Yeah,

the anti-Moore film festival. It had to happen.

These people should show their movies at one of those popular

Christian heavy metal festivals I've been hearing so much about.

[manchorito]

MICHAEL MOORE IS A COMPULSIVE

LIAR. This is not hard evidence, but if you think about it, it's like whenever he doesn't get his way, he makes up

some lie to make those people look bad. This was said on the Howard Stern Show, just summarized:

Moore had a

contract for financial backing for the movie, and the Republicans put pressure on the guy to pull out, and he did.

But then Miramax (a Disney company) came in and financed the movie, but Disney later said they wouldn't distribute

it. Moore revealed for the first time that Disney has ties to the Saudi Royal family.

AMAZING! He works with

Disney and never tells anyone about their "connections" but now that they don't produce his movie, Disney all of a

sudden has a connection to the Saudi Royal family. It seems to me that all of Moore's enemies are friends with the

Saudi Royal family... geez Michael, if you're going to make up a lie (when doesn't he?) at least change them up a

little.

It said that he told Stern that he tried to reveal this before, but they were edited out. How

convinient, another stupid lie.

[Holmes]

COMPULSIVE

LIAR....if you think about it, it's like whenever he doesn't get his way, he makes up some lie to make those

people look bad.

Sounds a lot like the current administration.

(Just add oil.)

[Gossamer_2701]

Sounds a lot

like the current administration.

(Just add oil.)

Those damn lizards..... I guess ya just can't

trust anyone these days

[DrSmellThis]

Just saw the movie.

As far as I could tell, the point of the documentary was something like this:

We cracked a window and let in a

predator. It really happened.

George W. Bush is absolutely jacking off with the bodies, lives and freedoms of

the innocent; here and abroad. Indeed, our Earth is nothing more than fuel for Mr. Bush's gas-powered pocket pussy.

And his circle of jerks.

With every arrogant word, this predator's eyes betray, and scream soulless,

sinister bluster of historic proportion. It is all a joke in his viral mind.

There is Hitler; Mussolini;

Stalin.

Bush.

Good, gentle people of America, wake up. Wake up and be strong. In this situation

your political preference shouldn't matter. Your children, and the rest of the human race need you. Now.



Notwithstanding past criticisms, Moore seems essentially beyond reproach in this well documented,

sickening, and excellent film.

Please see it if you haven't!

[metroman]

Just saw the

movie. As far as I could tell, the point of the documentary was something like this:

We cracked a window

and let in a predator. It really happened.

George W. Bush is absolutely jacking off with the bodies, lives

and freedoms of the innocent; here and abroad. Indeed, our Earth is nothing more than fuel for Mr. Bush's

gas-powered pocket pussy. And his circle of jerks.

With every arrogant word, this predator's eyes betray,

and scream soulless, sinister bluster of historic proportion. It is all a joke in his viral mind.



There is Hitler; Mussolini; Stalin.

Bush.

Good, gentle people of America, wake up. Wake up and

be strong. In this situation your political preference shouldn't matter. Your children, and the rest of the

human race need you. Now.

Notwithstanding past criticisms, Moore seems essentially beyond reproach in

this well documented, sickening, and excellent film.

Please see it if you haven't!

Very

succinct synopsis DST...I agree with your comments...

This is a good country full of good people who would be

appalled at what really goes on in our name within the international community...It's time for the good people of

this country to take it back!

[Whitehall]

"There is Hitler; Mussolini;

Stalin.

Bush."

This is pure poppycock! The strategic problems facing the USA are real and dangerous.

We've sat on our thumbs for over a decade while the cash payments for our increasing addiction to Mid-East oil are

funding a group of people eager to kill and subjugate us all.

Worst, our increasing demand for energy and the

increasing competition from other rising societies will be making the crisis arising from oil's depletion that much

more painful. We are approaching a point of inflection in human history and Bush's active strategy is the best

idea out there for dealing with it.

I've never met a perfect political leader and never will. Bush is not

perfect but is our best hope.


Likening Bush to the great evil men of the 20th century shows a lack of

critical thinking and an adolescent emotionalism.

DST, I expected better from you.

[DrSmellThis]

Well, I honestly felt a little

sad making that post, Whitehall, in part because I knew that would be your reaction, and I hate making extreme

statements due to the divisions they evoke. But I have to call it like I see it sometimes, and there is

currently a crisis; an emergency. I don't think it's lack of critical thinking, though it may well be "outside the

box" critical thinking. I don't like the quality of available information in conservative culture in recent years,

and I don't recommend anyone to fish from that news pond. I've tried to see Bush's side of it throughout (though

I don't trust his presentation that is it is really his own side of it), but Moore's film did help me put together

some things in my own mind that did get the emotions flowing. Rather than "adolescent", the emotions are an

approproate adult reaction to Bush sending so many people to their deaths for essentially narcissistic

reasons. Further, he just literally let Bin Laden go. He's not "trying", and is not concerned with anyone else's

best interest. He has ruined our relationships with the rest of the planet, most of which was our potential ally

(That was one 9/11 opportunity he blew big time.). I am a human being and have strong emotions about these kinds of

things. He is a corrupt, selfish, personality disordered man with a lot of power, not a mere Republican with

policy differences! (Incidentally, as a psychologist with a lot of experience working with the mentally ill, I can

see pathology clearly in his eyes, mannerisms and posture! Get a DSM-IV and look up Axis-II disorders.) He is

not a Colin Powell (who I'm suprised hasn't resigned) or Jack Kemp. The war was not just a mistake on Bush's

part. I made a mistake when I gave him the benefit of the doubt. It wasn't just the CIA's fault. They were

telling him what he essentially ordered them to. It was all deliberate from the beginning. I voted for Reagan for

"strategic threat" reasons, since Soviet nuke missiles were pointed "everywhere and it's neighbor"; but in this

case I cannot see where Bush represents hope in that regard, to put it mildly. Bush has been resoundingly

ineffective in fighting terrorism, due to his narrowness, small mindedness, lack of conscience, and narcissism.

Terrorism has unequivocally gotten worse. The Bushes, their businesses, their politics, and their interests have

long been funded by Saudis (e.g., the Bin Ladens), who own close to 7% of this country(!), mostly in energy (e.g,

the Bush family's oil companies) and communications investments (hence someone's Disney comments in the other

thread). Whose best interest does Bush hold? Energy is your field, and I very much respect that you have some good

information on it. I listen to your opinions. I do know we're too dependent on foreign oil, and that the

supply/demand situation is coming to a crisis. Our relationships with those who produce oil have not improved,

though. We do now have greater access to Afghani and Iraqi oil and natural gas, as we invaded those

countries and installed governments, but that is hardly success in the big picture, and the long-term picture, of

energy. But it also should not just be about energy and oil.

[a.k.a.]

We've sat on our

thumbs for over a decade while the cash payments for our increasing addiction to Mid-East oil are funding a group of

people eager to kill and subjugate us all.

Worst, our increasing demand for energy and the increasing

competition from other rising societies will be making the crisis arising from oil's depletion that much more

painful. We are approaching a point of inflection in human history

At least you understand what it’s

all about. The industrialized world has been enjoying a technological boom since Rockefeler dug his first well.

Today practically everything that defines our standard of living (from food, to clothing, to shelter, to tourism and

entertainment) is dependent on cheap, plentiful oil. Someday, of course, it’ll all run out. Very soon (I’ve read

estimates ranging from 2 -10 years) demand is going to exceed supply (measured in terms of how quickly it can be

pumped out of the ground — not actual reserves).

What used to be a buyer’s market is destined to be a

sellers market. Naturally, the oil rich Arab nations can’t wait.
I’ll give the devil his due. At least Bush

HAS a comprehensive energy policy. Clinton never even bothered. He’s even thrown some money into research and some

tax credits for alternative technologies.
The first problem is that the whole package is premised on a

significant rise in US demand. You and I have already had the conservation debate (If I may sum it up, you believe a

significant reduction in current consumption rates is unrealistic, I believe current consumption rates are

unsustainable — and consequently unrealistic in the long run.), so I won’t beat a dead horse. Let’s just agree that

this aspect of the Bush plan does not in itself make him a Hitler. But, given the fact that there simply won’t be

enough to go around, this does imply a problematic attitude towards the rest of the world.
When military

strategists start talking about “Full Spectrum Dominance”, and when you dig through the DOD & Pentagon web sites to

figure out what this is about, you discover that this administration is fully determined to rule the planet. To have

its greedy little hands into every little pie. That’s one giant step closer to Hitler/Stalin/Mussolini.



“Fascism” comes from the Italian word “fascio” meaning “bundle”. The symbol for Mussolini’s party was a bundle of

sticks tied around a big axe. This was supposed to symbolize the nation’s most powerful industries tied together

around an all-powerful military. Look at how the Bush administration has welded energy interests to military

expansion and you’ll find another big similarity.

After WWII a bunch of old Nazis went to trial for

attacking their neighbors without provocation. Many of them denied that they were the aggressors, claiming that they

were making a pre-emptive strike against potential threats. Just like Bush did with Iraq.
Stalin instituted a

program whereby neighbors were encouraged to report suspicious individuals to the KGB. The Office of Homeland

Security has instituted a similar program.
Stalin invented the detention center (where political undesirables

can sit and rot with no hope of legal recourse), Hitler made it infamous. The Bush gang has given us Guantanamo and

the Iraqi internment camps.
Hitler and Mussolini dissolved the parliament. There was a recent vote on a House

bill (HR 4754) that sought to block a section of the Patriot Act that lets authorities get special court orders

requiring book dealers, libraries etc. to surrender records — such as book purchases and internet sites visited on a

library computer. Bush threatened to veto it. The initial vote was 220 for and 200 against. But GOP leaders kept the

vote open for 23 minutes beyond the customary 15 minute roll call while they persuaded 10 Republicans to toe the

party line and change their vote. Consequently the bill failed.
Do we really want to see what another four

years of this administration might bring?

[DrSmellThis]

While I asserted that Fahrenheit 9/11 was meticulously documented, a few of you suggested it might be

largely untrue.

So for everyone who still wonders about the factuality of Moore's documentary, here is a list

of journalistic references, respective to the factual context of each major moment in the film; provided by the

filmmaker. A virtual narrative account of the film, it is a fascinating read in it's own right (though the actual

footage adds an immeasurable amount, of course).



http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/

[metroman]

I'd heard that Fahrenheit 9/11

was well documented. I'm glad they did this...

Dubya is hopefully history in Nov...Baring some last minute

trickery like postponing the elections or bringing up Bin Laden from the White House Basement