Bruce: Pissed with that ATTRACTION issue

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Bruce, actually I am very pissed with this Attraction thing that now comes out to be a lot weaker than it claimed to be. I bought it only because of its strength and good price per phero content.
Taking the true phero content, its quite expensive compared to other products. The wrong product to buy even having this cheap soapy smell.

Sorry for you as an honourable partner, but please give me some more details about what happened exactly:

- Who found it out, you, the manufacturer or someone else?
- When was it found out? products you sold in march this year are affected too?
- Did the producer intentionally cheat you and your customers?
- Andro 4.2 is made by the same company. Will it now be called Andro 0.7 because it only contains 0.7 mg Androstenone or has nobody yet found out about it?

Sorry for the trouble, but this is really a very bad dicovery. I would rather like to trade in this Attraction-stuff for some other of your products. True, trustworthy and reliable products.
PE

btw: rather make your own phero-kit than buying it. so you know what you are selling instead of having manufacturers getting you into trouble...

[ October 18, 2001: Message edited by: Phero Explorer ]

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I am shocked!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

I have been using Attraction, TE, AE, A4.2, Ewipes, PI, PF APC and NPA, and guess what? Attraction is the only one I really like!!!

There were even some recent threads on the forum praising the product! For some of us, Attraction is the product that worked somehow... even with that erroneous phero content...

So, please, Bruce, let us know what happened there... [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I feel the same as Phero Explorer, even tho I haven\'t even gotten my order of Attraction yet. Not that I blame you, Bruce. But what can we do about this?

[Bruce]

Hello,
I am very sorry about this mess. More about your questions soon, but for the time being, anyone having purchased a bottle of Attraction before the corrected stats, please send me an e-mail with the details. We\'ll send you two free SP oils; willing to upgrade that if it seems to stingy.
I will try to recount the details of how the confusion started here soon.
Sorry again,
Bruce

[Bruce]

One more quick point: Don\'t worry about Andro 4.2. It definitely contains 4.2 mg of androstenone per bottle. That has been confirmed by the manufacturer, and I believe them. They have never intentionally lied to me to my knowledge and they have been printing and labeling those \"4.2\" bottles for some time now.
More soon,
Bruce

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Regardless of the phero content, like some others here, I\'ve had Attraction work for me.

Seriously, just because some numbers changed doesn\'t undo the hits this stuff has created. While it\'s clearly less concentrated than we thought it was, based on the new numbers two sprays still puts the delivered pheromone dose right in the center of the \"hit\" range, based on what people have reported here.

I still think Attraction is a good product. Perhaps a bit expensive given the revised concentration -- but a product that works is a better value than one that doesn\'t, regardless of price.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Good point scientists, does that still keep it above the edge in terms of potentcy.
Hey it gives me hits on its own. So i will keep using it.

[CJ01]

Bruce, that is a very cool thing of you to offer! ( Like the PF [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] ). But I bought my Attraction ages ago, in fact it was hte first order I ever placed. I admit it still hasn´t worked for me. How far back in time does this offer go ? CJ

[Bruce]

Hello,
Well said, scientist. I don\'t think it is a bad product at all, though yes, the price should come down and I will see about that. Until now, they have been charging me more for Attraction than for the Andro 4.2 which seemed reasonable based on the old stats.

A while back, guys were mixing Andro into their Attraction and getting very good results. Even as is, it is a vastly stronger product than DateMate, just a bit skewed in the NOL direction, which is why it can be used by men or women.

CJ: There is no time limit going backward for the make-up freebies. Juat as long as the order was placed before I made the correction on the website.

ALSO; I didn\'t mention it in earlier explanations about compensation, but of course customers can return their Attraction for a full refund.

Bruce

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Hey thats wrong, here in australia i pay more for andro then i do for attraction, so i wonder why they charged you more ????.

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Good Point Scientist.

[CJ01]

Paul you meant that the other way round right? I agree, if Attraction has much less pheros in it, then the price they (not Bruce)are charging for it is a bit off a rip-off. In this case it should be $25-$30 maybe.

What do you guys reckon?

CJ

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Nope for customers they charge 64 dollars australian for attraction and 74 australian for andro 4.2 which is about 33 US and 37 US respectiveley

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Then youve got to add applicable postage and handling.

[CJ01]

Bruce, what do you want people to write as a note if anyone sends the bottle of A. back?

And in which form would the money be returned ?

Have you had a word with the makers yet and have you recieved the unscented version yet?

CJ

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey Bruce,
don\'t forget to tell us how this Attraction issue came up. I\'m curious to know who found out and who tried to ripp off you (and your customers).

The \"true\" Attraction compared to the \"not so true\" version is like a sixpack of beer with four bottles that had been empty upon purchase already [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] (=two thirds of its contents missing).
Thanks, P.E.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

So NOW what is the best value for these products? Attraction was pretty high on the list as I recall - but now? Alter Ego? Perfect Ten? Where does Edge stand comparatively? Who did the \"per-mg cost analysis\" last time?

[oscar]

Idol,

Attraction now comes in at $13.63/mg.of Phero, dropping it from first to eighth place in the bang for the buck category. And that\'s at the sale price of $44.95, though I doubt it\'ll ever go back up to $49.95 given the recent news.

So, relying on new info on Attraction,(weaker than thought), and new info on NPA, (stronger than thought), and the same old, sometimes vague info for everything else, here\'s the updated bang for the buck tally.

1-PI (women\'s)..........$6.36/mg. of Phero
2-PPA (women\'s).........$9.78/mg.
3-Andro 4.2............$10.70
4-PPA (men\'s)..........$11.09
5-NPA..................$12.48
6-The Edge.............$12.97
7-Perfect Ten..........$12.99
8-Attraction...........$13.63
9-PI (men\'s)...........$13.99
10-Alter Ego...........$14.80
11-AFA.................$17.08
12-PCC.................$19.96
13-Realm...............$19.98
14-APC (1oz.)..........$23.30
15-APC (.5oz.).........$39.93

Remember, for the purposes of this comparison no distinction was made between A-None, A-Nol, A-Rone, or Copulins. Total Phero content was all that was considered.

The revised Attraction potency number also drops it to .011%, just below TE (.012%), and above Realm (.005%).

Anyone with different numbers let me know.

Oscar
[img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Bruce]

Hi,

When I first found out about the mistake, I thought it was innocent, but I am starting to feel like I (we) got ripped off as has been mentioned here.

Here\'s the history of it: A year or so ago, before I had either Andro or Attraction, quite a few board members were talking about the Australian versions of these products and suggesting (to put it mildly) that I get them at Love Scent. One board member even made contact with the manufacturer on my behalf and then e-mailed me the phone number! I phoned up and found out that they had two products I might be interested in. Of course, I asked what was in the products. Now the hard part. It has been over a year since that conversation, so it is a little hazy, but as I remember it, the man was very clear on the Andro formula (ie: 4.2 mg of androstenone per bottle), but when we got to the formula found in Attraction, suddenly there were a lot of figures being thrown around; concentration %, amount of the total pheromone content being NONE vs. NOL etc. While we were on the phone though, (as I remember) I was clicking away with the calculator and saying things like: \"OK, let\'s see. We have X % pheromones, so in a 30 ml bottle we are talking Y mg, right?\" Then since 30% of that is NONE, then that gives us etc etc. It seems to me that we worked out the previous numbers entirely on the phone during that first conversation and didn\'t hear any \"NO, wait a minute, that\'s not right.\" If you notice now the total amount of pheromones is 3.3 mg per bottle, and that is the figure I had for the androstenone alone. That could have all been an innocent mixup; maybe not but I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

The things that bother me now are:
A. I made quite a number of attempts to get those high figures verified or corrected over the last few months, and my e-mails were never answered. Finally, I wrote back insisting on a clear answer and got the bad news.
B. Since then I wrote back asking that the price be reduced to a level reasonable with the amount of active ingredients, especially considering that I have been paying for the assumed contents for more than a year now, and THAT e-mail was also ignored. Again I persisted and got the answer that they have contacted their raw materials suppliers and will let me know if they can meet my request. End of story.
C. They say that NOL is an equally costly ingredient to NONE, and that just ain\'t so, according to every account of the prices that I have ever heard. Maybe someone on the forum here can verify that or give more detail.
D. The news from D. Duck above that Attraction is being sold retail in Australia for quite a bit less than Andro, while they are charging me MORE for the stuff.
E. One of my recent attempts to find out what is REALLY in Attraction, was together in an e-mail with an order for the unscented version of the product, so you would think I should get the straight story about the product before shipping, but not so. They dinged my card, shipped the product and didn\'t send me an invoice like they usually do. First I knew about it was when the charge appeared on my account.

So, there are some not-so-good points here, but I still hate to lose them as a supplier. Both products are good. They just reamed me on the price of the Attraction for more than a year. In other areas they are great. They are very very pleasent to do business with. You tell them you need some product and BING it is in the post the same day, and \"rrrrr\" goes the fax machine and there is my invoiice and they don\'t accidently send the wrong product, rip off your ideas/materials or \"accidently\" ding your card for a stray $900. like \"some manufacturers\" (who shall remain nameless) are fond of doing to cusotmers. That is one thing you have to keep in mind. The business world can be a nasty place, ripoffs are coming out of the woodwork. You have to be very careful when you \"change horses.\" I could fill pages of this forum with horror stories that would make your skin crawl, and even among the \"nice guys\" your chances of getting decent customer service is running way under 50%, waaaay under. OK... \"don\'t get me started.\" Next I\'ll be talking about lawyers.

Anyway, these guys are not so bad; they did do a small nasty to me here though, and I wish they would fix that. We all make mistakes; it is how you take responsability for them and fix them that makes the difference.

all the best,
Bruce

[CJ01]

This prbably got overlooked earlier so I just pose the Q again.

Bruce what should people write on the note if they do want to return their bottles of A, and how/in which form will the money be returned?

The makers of A should really be more open and flexible in terms of pricing, don´t give up. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

What other products do you get from them, would they be a great loss if you stopped dealing with them (if it comes down to it)?

BTW I think most people here know the feeling of getting ripped off - IT SUCKS big time!

CJ [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Bruce]

Hi,
Just put a note in with the bottle explaining the problem and what you want (exchange or refund). Refunds are pushed back thru the card the order came in on, and appear as a credit on your account.

We only get Andro and Attraction from them. Ironically, the Andro would be very easy to have made elsewhere, but is currently a good deal. Attraction is the product we need to see a price cut on, but anything that contains a unique fragrance like that is hard to work around, as customers always come back looking for something they had good results with. The thing to do is just stay calm for now, and see if the manufacturer will do the right thing.
Cheers,
bruce