What do you do for women of today who are always "on guard" so to speak?

[happyman]

I have had some success lately but not enough. It seems alot of

women are unguard to talk or get to know you. Nowadays Women are always on guard it seems. I have experienced this

at times with girls I am not even hitting on. I just say hello and they say hi but kinda put their guard up . Not

all but 3 out of 4. So what is a good approach with the other three? How do you brake the barrier there? You see

once you have broken down the barrieres she's yours. It is just breaking them down which seems very hard because

they seem on guard alot these days or already have it set in their mind they do not want to get to know anyone

outside of their circle. How do you find your way in if your having trouble with this. I had this sort of thing with

a 22 year old. I could tell she was kinda interested but her girlfriends always were guarding her and it was tough

to try and get to know her because she had her click and I was older and was like some outside guy. After a while

she lost interest. How do I rememdy this? Any suggestions?


Happy

[Myself]

I'd suggest trying SOE, that's

exactly what it's made for

[Sexyredhead]

SOE, and be patient.

[Pancho1188]

SOE, and be

patient.

SOE, and SRH...to coach you through...

[Gossamer_2701]

I know it hasn't been

tested nearly as much as SOE, which is great as well, but I've found that Chikara consistantly breaks down those

walls that women put up. They very quickly forget the 'personal space' rule (although let them move into your

space first)

They seem to feel like they 'know' you much faster. And as far as her 'girls' guarding her.....

be a man and stand your ground..... don't let them run you off so quickly. They're testing you, be kind and funny

with all of them, and take it step by step.


Good luck Happy,


Goss

[Elana]

SOE, and a good sense of humor

[DCW]

SOE, and gun point.

:-)

Kidding, Kidding, smile it's Monday.

[Elana]

That's not right!

[Pancho1188]

Wow, great advice...and all

this time I was only using a knife...unfortunately, a lot of women's parents really did buy baseball bats to keep

the guys away...so baseball bat trumps knife because of its reach...

[DCW]

SOE, a big smile and

ca$h.

DCW

[franki]

Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara,

Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara,

Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara,

Chikara,vChikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara,

Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, Chikara,

Chikara, Chikara, Chikara, a little bit of humor, confidence, WAGG and "maybe" SOE

[Friendly1]

I have had some

success lately but not enough. It seems alot of women are unguard to talk or get to know you. Nowadays Women are

always on guard it seems. I have experienced this at times with girls I am not even hitting on. I just say hello and

they say hi but kinda put their guard up . Not all but 3 out of 4.

Just out of curiosity, do you ever walk

up to very heavy girls who are obviously not being hit on by guys all day long and treat them the same way?



The average woman or girl is approached by men quite often. As a woman's beauty rises above average (and about half

of them are better than average, by definition), she is approached by more men. The more men who approach her, the

more selective she can afford to become. Younger women (in general) get hit on more than older women, too.



Most guys seem to prefer the 9s and 10s to the 7s and 8s, and so on.

These guys never seem to see a

correlation between their preferences and the reactions of women.

Now, do *I* seek out heavy-set women? No.

But I otherwise try not to treat them any differently from the way I treat other women. I am sure that, being a man

who appreciates beauty, I still have some unconscious rules. But when I am with heavy-set women, I laugh, joke with,

and tease them as I would a more attractive woman.

I also dance with them, and not JUST with the cute young

honeys. A friend of mine, who is a much better dancer than me, complained one night about how women are always

asking me to dance. They rarely ask him for a dance. It's hard to say what he is doing wrong, or what I am doing

right. I am in the middle of it. But he IS rather selective about his dance partners.

He doesn't talk much

with women whom he doesn't find to be very attractive, either.

Take that for what it is worth.

[tounge]

Just out of

curiosity, do you ever walk up to very heavy girls who are obviously not being hit on by guys all day long and treat

them the same way?

The average woman or girl is approached by men quite often. As a woman's beauty rises

above average (and about half of them are better than average, by definition), she is approached by more men. The

more men who approach her, the more selective she can afford to become. Younger women (in general) get hit on more

than older women, too.

Most guys seem to prefer the 9s and 10s to the 7s and 8s, and so on.



These guys never seem to see a correlation between their preferences and the reactions of women.

Now, do

*I* seek out heavy-set women? No. But I otherwise try not to treat them any differently from the way I treat other

women. I am sure that, being a man who appreciates beauty, I still have some unconscious rules. But when I am with

heavy-set women, I laugh, joke with, and tease them as I would a more attractive woman.

I also dance with

them, and not JUST with the cute young honeys. A friend of mine, who is a much better dancer than me, complained one

night about how women are always asking me to dance. They rarely ask him for a dance. It's hard to say what he is

doing wrong, or what I am doing right. I am in the middle of it. But he IS rather selective about his dance

partners.

He doesn't talk much with women whom he doesn't find to be very attractive, either.



Take that for what it is worth.

It is worth a lot. I'm a very happy, go lucky person.

And I try to smile at everybody. I talk to any and all women who will talk to me.

But also, I will admit

that obesity is a sexual turn off to me. I can share many laughs and conversations with a heavy women, but I would

have no desire to play nekkid hopscotch with them.

If I'm at a club or a hot bar, I have no qualms about

starting a conversation with a women many men AND women would deem unattractive. My motto is "FUGLY WOMEN NEED LOVE

TOO" But the honest truth is unless she has the most amazing personalty, my pogo stick willstay in the toy shed.

[DCW]

I would say that 90% of the women

that hail me on the web are so called BBW women, some are BBBBW.
I must admit I like a little cushion but there

is a limit in my mind.
Some big girls are actually quite pretty and should not be disgarded in my humble

opinion.


DCW

[Friendly1]

There is no reason to be

ashamed for being more attracted to thin, healthy-looking women than to women who, for whatever reason, don't meet

that standard in your mind. While women don't judge men in exactly the same way we judge them, they (generally)

still find slim guys with ribbed cages to be more attractive than guys who could make icebergs in the Antarctic look

diminutive.

It's hard to tell what someone is or is not doing on the basis of one post. We are not shallow

simply because we're human. Usually, we are shallow because we choose to be.

I try not to make that choice.



In any event, if you want to skim a lady off her group of friends, see if you can decipher their group dynamic.

For example, if they leave an open seat around their table, are looking around and making comments to each other

about people in the bar, they are probably open to a little companionship. If they are accepting invitations to

dance, you definitely have a shot at getting one away from the group.

I once accidentally skimmed someone I

wasn't even interested in (and she was quite attractive -- I just wasn't looking). My friends and I had started

out with two tables and I didn't realize several of them had left. Some women sat down at one of our tables. I

went back to it and sat in my chair, and then looked around. I saw Miss Mystery looking at me and I said, "Do I

know you?" She said, "No." I said, "Ah. My friends must have left this table. Sorry." So, I picked up my stuff

and switched tables.

She started talking to me a little later.

She refused to dance with everyone who

asked her, but as she and her friends were getting ready to leave, I told her she owed me a dance. She stepped out

on the floor with me.

I think a smoother man could have gone farther that night.

Or not. A lot of women

do seem to judge guys as players pretty quickly.

[Elana]

Just out of

curiosity, do you ever walk up to very heavy girls who are obviously not being hit on by guys all day long and treat

them the same way?

The average woman or girl is approached by men quite often. As a woman's beauty rises above

average (and about half of them are better than average, by definition), she is approached by more men. The more men

who approach her, the more selective she can afford to become. Younger women (in general) get hit on more than older

women, too.

Most guys seem to prefer the 9s and 10s to the 7s and 8s, and so on.

These guys never seem to

see a correlation between their preferences and the reactions of women.

Now, do *I* seek out heavy-set women?

No. But I otherwise try not to treat them any differently from the way I treat other women. I am sure that, being a

man who appreciates beauty, I still have some unconscious rules. But when I am with heavy-set women, I laugh, joke

with, and tease them as I would a more attractive woman.

I also dance with them, and not JUST with the cute

young honeys. A friend of mine, who is a much better dancer than me, complained one night about how women are always

asking me to dance. They rarely ask him for a dance. It's hard to say what he is doing wrong, or what I am doing

right. I am in the middle of it. But he IS rather selective about his dance partners.

He doesn't talk much with

women whom he doesn't find to be very attractive, either.

Take that for what it is worth.

Very good

post!

[DZorro]

SOE, and

SRH...to coach you through...

So that's what i was missing, so SRH where are you






DZorro,

[DZorro]

There is no

reason to be ashamed for being more attracted to thin, healthy-looking women than to women who, for whatever reason,

don't meet that standard in your mind. While women don't judge men in exactly the same way we judge them, they

(generally) still find slim guys with ribbed cages to be more attractive than guys who could make icebergs in the

Antarctic look diminutive.

It's hard to tell what someone is or is not doing on the basis of one post. We are

not shallow simply because we're human. Usually, we are shallow because we choose to be.

I try not to make that

choice.

In any event, if you want to skim a lady off her group of friends, see if you can decipher their group

dynamic. For example, if they leave an open seat around their table, are looking around and making comments to each

other about people in the bar, they are probably open to a little companionship. If they are accepting invitations

to dance, you definitely have a shot at getting one away from the group.

I once accidentally skimmed someone I

wasn't even interested in (and she was quite attractive -- I just wasn't looking). My friends and I had started

out with two tables and I didn't realize several of them had left. Some women sat down at one of our tables. I went

back to it and sat in my chair, and then looked around. I saw Miss Mystery looking at me and I said, "Do I know

you?" She said, "No." I said, "Ah. My friends must have left this table. Sorry." So, I picked up my stuff and

switched tables.

She started talking to me a little later.

She refused to dance with everyone who asked her,

but as she and her friends were getting ready to leave, I told her she owed me a dance. She stepped out on the floor

with me.

I think a smoother man could have gone farther that night.

Or not. A lot of women do seem to judge

guys as players pretty quickly.

Wheren't you a little hard on her ??
Anyway great post.






DZorro,

[JustPeachy]

Friendly1 makes some good

points, as usual. (reps to you)

With the dancing, it's as if every dance is a 3-minute date. First, somebody

has to ask somebody out. Then there's a conversation. And depending on that conversation, there may or may not be a

second "date". Kind of like those dating clubs that have sprung up all over the place. Like Friendly1, I dance with

just about everybody. I smile. I encourage them, especially if they are nervous. I get to see lots and lots of

different men. And I mean different! I get horndoggers, neophytes, fat guys, slim guys, icky guys, gorgeous guys,

suave and debonair guys. I can't even tell you how many times I have had female friends complain they lacked

partners, then heard male friends making the same complaints. Meanwhile, they hang around like so many victims of

circumstance. If things get off to a little slower start than I like, I do some of the asking. Even if I'm not

really in the mood. Know why? Because I found out that when the guys I really do want to dance with see me having an

apparently great time with some other guy, I become 10 times more desirable as a partner. The less desirable guys

know I'm not a snob, the more desirable guys figure they'll do better with me than the less desirable guy they saw

me with, and the guys who really only came to dance have seen that I can. There are, like, 3 guys in the entire city

that I will not dance with under any circumstances (a solid nutcase and a couple of gropers), and maybe 300 that I

have danced with before and will again. I will NOT usually trump a 20-something built like a brick outhouse blonde

with 2 left feet. But I know that going in, so it doesn't bother a lot. I don't think it's ever cost me anything

anyway.

Thing is, the more I do the little "3 minute date", the more I see how it applies to all kinds of other

social situations. I attract pretty much what I put out there. And if I'm being all judgemental and fussy, I just

don't attract friendly or warm or fun people. I guess that's kind of a rehash of what Friendly already said, but I

think I'm pretty much seeing the same things he is.

[Friendly1]

Wheren't you a

little hard on her ??
Anyway great post.
DZorro,

Telling her she owed me a dance was being "a little

hard on her"? No, I don't think so at all. I had seen her turn other guys down. She knew I knew she was saying

"No". I gave her the same opportunity to shoot me down the other guys had given her.

It's not like I dragged

her kicking and screaming out onto the dance floor.

This comes back to the body language thing, I guess. When

she went out of her way to strike up a conversation with me, I knew she was a bit intrigued. "Why didn't this guy

come on to me?"

She touched my arm a couple of times. It's not that she brushed past me. I mean that she

reached out and deliberately made contact. I didn't do anything to encourage her or pursue her.

I found out

her name, what neighborhood she lives in, the fact she is a Masters student at a local private university, blah,

blah, blah.

I did almost exactly what she wanted.

She was a pretty good dancer, too. Not great, but a

good follower. Or maybe she just wanted to follow me. I'll never know. I never ran into her again. I really wasn't

trying to make a connection. But I decided that, since she had expressed some interest in my company, the least I

could do was see if I could get her out on the dance floor. I risked nothing but being turned down.

I mean,

she had her coat and her purse in her hands when I told her to go dancing with me. Her friends all smiled and urged

her to do it.

In the end, she probably thought I was a dud because I didn't ask for her number or something.

But if I asked every woman I dance with for a phone number, I'd end up with a huge collection of phone numbers. So

what? When I want to do something with someone, I set it up. She knows today whether she is free on Saturday or not.

If I wait 2-3 days, chances are she won't be. Chances are she won't remember who I am if I call and say, "Hey,

I'm the guy you danced with the other night."

Duh! That REALLY helps.

If a woman wants to spend time

with me, she'll generally let me know. I just have to be open to her suggestions.

Sometimes, I pass on the

opportunity. I don't think that makes me any more hard on her than her passing on me is hard on me.

[CJ01]

Telling her she owed me a dance

was being "a little hard on her"? No, I don't think so at all.

what you say is as important as how you

say something

Chances are she won't remember who I am if I call and say, "Hey, I'm the guy you

danced with the other night."

Duh! That REALLY helps.

exactly!! It makes both feel daft when you

can´t remember the other person

[DCW]

The problem is they don't play slow

songs like they did back in the day :-).
Thats was a great opportunity for some small talk and you can gage how

she reacts when you try and put your hand on her butt...he..he :-)

Today everything is loud and fast and

half the time you can't hear what each other is saying. This results in you forgetting her name, which pisses her

off at the end of the night.

Right now I have a single number in my cell with 2 different names, if I ask for

the wrong name I'm dead.

The complexities of life....the complexities of life

DCW

[Myself]

Right now I have a

single number in my cell with 2 different names, if I ask for the wrong name I'm dead.

The complexities of

life....the complexities of life

Owww man. You're screwed

[Friendly1]

The problem is they

don't play slow songs like they did back in the day :-).

If you're into Latin dancing, learn the

Bachata. The music is sweet and cute and the couples can dance REALLY close. I am still getting the basic down

(it's completely backwards to Salsa). It is considered a dirty dance in some areas and you can see why when the

guys go down on their partners (I don't mean ALL the way down). It's just a really sensual dance, when done that

way. But the music is not nearly as loud as other kinds of music and you can usually have a halfway decent

conversation.

Not always, but usually.

Some clubs play Bachata more than others.

[DCW]

I know the Bachata (one, two, three

hop) and Meringue (bad spelling) I agree the problem is you got to wait until the Latin DJ gets around to it, until

then you have to wait on the side lines praticing your salsa steps because your too chicken to make a move on Miss

Venezuela who grew up dancing the stuff.


DCW

[Friendly1]

I see you are in Houston. So

you know there are a ton of clubs around here. I will be leaving soon, unfortunately. I have to take a job in

another state. But have you visited Salsaweb.com? I think they or another resource someone pointed me to list a

lot of clubs with the kind of music they play.

I have occasionally thought about doing a sort of club tour,

picking a theme and going to see how the clubs handle it. I won't have time for that now.

If I get the job I

think I will soon be offered (that I would like to have offered to me), I won't be living in a big Salsa scene any

more. I may have to learn the two-step and the polka (ick). Maybe I'll take up Swing dancing.

I can get

through a basic foxtrot but my waltz is rough, so I don't want to get into ballroom dancing. Not really my crowd

anyway. A friend asks me to go with her to an occasional ballroom event, and I do but I don't really have much fun

at them.

[JustPeachy]

I know the Bachata

(one, two, three hop) and Meringue (bad spelling) I agree the problem is you got to wait until the Latin DJ gets

around to it, until then you have to wait on the side lines praticing your salsa steps because your too chicken to

make a move on Miss Venezuela who grew up dancing the stuff.


DCW

That's pretty funny. Bachata

(done right) isn't all that close, and gropers don't usually score any better there than anyplace else - which is

why a lot of women won't even dance it with anyone they don't know (I don't any more, even though I like the

dance). And the salseros usually hate Merengue because it wears you out and makes you sweat without even getting any

good moves in. The only way is to go say hello to "Miss Venezuela', who is often as not is Asian or Black or Anglo,

and be prepared for the good, the bad, and the indifferent. That's how you learn. Be bold. Be brave. Be prepared to

look like a flaming jerk. We all did.

I actually went to a Latin club in Houston that was really very

Tejano. People there were actually dancing Two Step to Salsa music. Pretty freaky. But it wasn't Cristal, which I

understand is where the real salseros hang. I can't even remember the name of that club I went to now. I was in

town for a ballroom thing. I did find a guy from Mexico City and a South American guy who could dance Salsa, though,

so it was o.k. Unlike Friendly, I switch clothes, shift gears, and swing both ways. I find different things to enjoy

in each style and with each crowd. But any of them is a GREAT opportunity to play with -mones, because you're going

to get at least a solid 3 minutes right up close with as many people (spell that l.a.b. r.a.t.s ; ) as you can fit

in for the evening! If it happens that the dancing sucks, you can spend the time observing behaviors instead.

[happyman]

Yeah SOE really helps. I even

feel more confident with it on. Sometimes with SOE on there aint a women I can't snag (in my mind I'm thinking you

know).
But I got the scented SOE and get this. For all it's worth.....I really can't smell it. I mean slightly

when it's rolled onto my finger but then that's pretty much it. I can sense there is something there though but

not so much a smell. So tell me please, others say it definately has a smell of some sort. I got the roll-on scented

SOE. Tell what it smells like so I know. What is it's signature and what does it say about itself in terms of vibe

or what does it emit in terms of aroma?
Remember I have the scented roll-on SOE. Thanks so much for your

reply.
Ian

[Friendly1]

That's

pretty funny. Bachata (done right) isn't all that close, and gropers don't usually score any better there than

anyplace else - which is why a lot of women won't even dance it with anyone they don't know (I don't any more,

even though I like the dance).

I think most of the couples I see doing the sexier Bachata are "couples" in

every sense of the word. I don't pay them much attention, so I cannot be sure.

And the

salseros usually hate Merengue because it wears you out and makes you sweat without even getting any good moves

in.

Well, I love Merengue. I think that, when done right, it is a VERY sexy dance. Most people don't do it

right. I have picked up some moves from Salsa and from watching the sexier Merengue dancers that the ladies I dance

with enjoy.

The only way is to go say hello to "Miss Venezuela', who is often as not is

Asian or Black or Anglo, and be prepared for the good, the bad, and the indifferent. That's how you learn. Be bold.

Be brave. Be prepared to look like a flaming jerk. We all did.

I do tend to watch the women dance

before I ask them. I am tired of asking, "Do you dance Salsa?", hearing "Yes!", and then getting stuck with some

sort of side-to-side swish/wiggle.

I actually went to a Latin club in Houston that was

really very Tejano. People there were actually dancing Two Step to Salsa music. Pretty freaky. But it wasn't

Cristal, which I understand is where the real salseros hang.

All the "real" clubs are after-midnight clubs.

Cristal had a good reputation once, but now it is regarded as a place to get into fights (rightly or wrongly). My

friends won't go there.

A neat club that I cannot get my friends into is The Palace. They only operate on

Friday and Saturday nights. Occasionally, I can bring a party into Tropicana Nite Club. I think the reason my

friends don't like The Palace is that the staff barely speaks English. Great floors, wonderful sound system. I

almost fell in love with one of the servers, Yahaina. She doesn't speak a word of English. Don't know if she is

there any more.

I've been to Hush but it was pretty much a bust. The only music they will play has to have a

Euro-Disco beat (doesn't matter if it's supposed to be Latin or Hip Hop -- it's all THUMP, THUMP, THUMP and most

of the people don't know how to dance anyway).

All the kids hang out at Metropolis and a few other "under 21"

clubs. Some people in their 20s also go to places like that. Some of the more well-known clubs are schizophrenic.

They are Latin one night, Hip Hop another night, Retro 80s another (and what is so "Retro" about the 80s anyway? --

the music wasn't very danceable anyway).

Yahoo! Groups has a Houston Salsa mailing list with 2900

subscribers. You can usually keep up with where all the bands play there.

One of the more popular bands here

is Mary's Band, led by Mary Frometa. She is an absolute goddess. Men fall down and worship her feet. I swear, I've

seen some of the coolest guys just drool over her (and she, like a typical SuperBabe, just ignores them). She has

her own Web site and she does some TV work.

But the band is fantastic. They always bring in a huge crowd. Some

people I only see on nights Mary's Band plays a certain venue. They also perform at Elvia's Cantina every

Friday.

I've actually had a few minor pheromone hits with Mary (instant eye contact), but always in passing

(she stays close to the band, and the guys tend to keep other guys away from her). My friends used to joke about

fixing me up with her. "You'd have beautiful babies with that one."

ANYONE would have beautiful babies with

her. But she seems to be dead set on building her career. The man who gets her will be special indeed, and God help

him if he forgets WHY and HOW he got her.

[Watcher]

Healthy people both male and

female attract more sexual attention - these slim attractive woemn have better coping mechanisms for dealing with

the constant sexual attention where a larger woman who is overweight might not get to much attention and revels

when she does - the slimmer on guard ones has guys hitting on her often.

Similar to me (a guy) is a gym junky

so to speak and well buffed etc - i get women coming onto me all the time - even without pheromones which just up

the anti - but say without pheromones they hover - i make it a habit of only responding to the ones that communicate

with me (narrows the field down a fair bit)

Its all about mutual attraction if you aint attractive to women

sit down and try to work out why *biologocial looks help - ie work out and do some exercise* if you are fat and a

couch potato women wont find you as attractive - get a job - get some money - try to dress good - all these helps +

get some clown shoes as a ice breaker.