Finally, success!!!

[Chemist]

I ordered my first

bottle of phereomone based products from love-scent a few years ago (back then YES, APC, Datemate, and Lure were the

rage - how far we've come!) and started using them. I later ordered the more potent products as they came to my

attention (PI, SOE, PF, AE, PPA. . .etc). I noticed some very subtle differences in the way women acted towards me -

it was hard to distinguish the effect one combination had over another - the most obvious effect I noticed was what

would happen when I put too much on. I was a very active member in the forums due to my chemistry backround as well

as the fact that I wanted to find a "meaningful relationship". However, I haven't been active in the forums over

the last 2 years although I continue to order Bruce's occasional specials and good deals if I happened to see them

when I visit love-scent.

I spent the last two years researching many of the methods of so called seduction

and spent much money reading every single word and listening to every single CD I could get my hands on. Each one of

these methods came with a money back guarentee stating that if the method wasn't 100% effective that I could return

it for a full refund. What I found is that most of these methods are inconsistant with one another - and that

consequently no one was really saying the same thing. Many of the time windows for returning these products was too

short to see if they were effective, and thus I would return the products before knowing full well if they worked or

not - but by the wording of the products guarentee, I was entitled to a full refund. Some products I ordered were

40% good advice and 60% nonsense. Some prodcuts were total garbage, yet seemed to work for other people. This

bothered me somewhat.

For the last 20 years, I had been trying to find a "meaningful relationship". Once I

stopped to think about what that meant, it actually means I am not trying to get my rocks off or having wild crazy

passionate for the moment sex for just a short period of time. Many of the people I know are very successful at

hooking up, why wasn't I? It was because I wanted something "meaningful" even though I had an instict to want to

get my rocks off. Consequently, this contradiction of stances was confusing me and thus making me somewhat

misdirected in my efforts. I started to look closely at the dynamics of how people related to each other and what

was going on at social settings. I had found that 2/3 of the people I encountered were actually only looking for

something fleeting and something meaningful never crossed their minds. This also meant that I was unlike most of the

people I encountered and thus if when we exchanged ideas that usually they were not the same.

Once I realized

that looking for something meaningful precludes wild passionate for the moment encounters, it suddenly dawned on me

that IF I COULD HAVE A MEANINGFUL CONVERSATION WITH A WOMAN AT A SOCIAL ENCOUNTER that it meant not looking for

something fleeting. It meant that I was trying to build something for the future - and consequently it means the

same thing to someone looking for a fleeting encounter who successfully hooks up for the night. It also means that I

AM NOT LOOKING FOR SOMETHING FLEETING. Once I believed this in my heart, mind, and soul, EVERYTHING CHANGED

DRAMATICALLY. I started realizing this 5 months ago and noticed things dramatically changing, but waited for a

reasonable amount of time before posting to the forum on the off chance everything was a fluke.
The knowledge

that in any new social encounter with a woman that there is NO CHANCE IN HELL THAT I AM GOING TO GET LAID but that I

am truly trying to build something towards a future took all the intimidation and uncertaintly out of my

intereactions. If I knew I was going to see her in the future at another setting, I would wait until the next

encounter. If I was fairly certain that I wouldn't run into her again, I ask her for her number and use it - to

meet her and build further relations. This also means that I am genuinely interested in getting to know her for who

she is and what she finds important. It also means that I do not ever do things such as bring up sex or any clever

innuendos. It also means that when I speak with her that I pay complete attention to her by looking right at her

face and never ever stare at her body or look around and check out other people. It also means that I do not put my

arms around her or try to touch her - if she wants to touch me - thats a different story - and that now happens very

often. It means that if she brings up sex - that I have struck paydirt.

All of a sudden, I find that women

are COMPETING FOR MY ATTENTION. They are calling me and seeking me out. They are becoming suddenly submissive and

they approach me in social settings and start talking - subtly knowing that I am not trying to "score" and thus they

feel comfortable. I keep the conversation upbeat and occasionally will tease the woman about something in herself. I

notice that when one of the women is talking to me that the others in the area start staring in my direction. It

also means that since so many women want to spend time with me (AND JUST TALK) that when one tries to make plans

with me that much of the time I am unavailable but will always suggest another day and time to meet. Things

progressed very rapidly and now I am in the throes of a wonderful relationship with someone who would not have given

me the time of day 6 months ago. Knowing that there are other women who want to spend time with me keeps me from

being the negative possessive man that all of us have been at one time or another. Her knowing this also means she

knows that if she pushes me too far that I can drop her in an instant and start building a future with someone else.

The quality of women who seem to be attracted to a guy that genuinely wants to get to know them without trying just

to get laid transends no boundries. It applies to women of different races, beauty, and builds. I did notice that

once the first drop-dead gorgeous woman started spending time with me, other pretty ones would step up to bat soon

after.

Six months ago, I had no one. No one called me and women used to interact to me with apprehension.

Little by little, things changed and the changes were so subtle that I barely noticed things changing. However, now

women are very open to me, they approach me and strike up conversations - they call me and try to spend time with me

- and they talk about me with each other. It's amazing to me.

Do the pheromones work? Although I have no

evidence to say that they do - my experience tells me yes. It makes the women more comfortable and open around me. I

tend to wear products containing mostly -nol.

However, the key was finally once and for all defining what I

really wanted and living my life from that standpoint. Once I started doing this, things progressed dramatically. It

also means that methods that try to get men laid as fast as possible were complete garbage to me whereas the ones

trying to build something for the future were more pertinant. However, no one method got it right and it was the

person inside me that actually was the key that finally opened the floodgates.

The long-term lesson for me

is that once I define what it is that I wanted and started to live my life consistant with that method, that I

FINALLY GOT WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR. I now have over dozen women who compete for my time and also the one special

woman I am currently involved with - this one is my number one - she is the one I spend my weekends with. Although

there are some physical and intimate things that go on in my relationship, this is not the focus - its all about

building towards a future with me (the future means at least 2 months up the road to me) - and this stance seems to

make me all the more sexually attractive to her - IT MAKES NO INTUITIVE SENSE TO ME. For some counterintuitive

reason, being involved with someone makes me more attractive to the other women - however, I will not act on it

unless my current relationship goes south.

It also leads me to believe that many of the techniques that are

floating about are all pertinant depending on what the reader themselves wants. One method encourages you to

initiate physical contact with a woman in an effort to seduce her - this will not work for my goal - but it may work

if you just want something fleeting. One method encourages you to wait over a week before you call a women - this

works for me but will not work for someone looking for a quick fix. Many methods encourage men to stop acting like

wussies and wimps - this is good advice if you want the kind of woman this attracts - but not if you are looking for

someone unpredictable and prone to drama. Some of us live for extreme emotions and some of us avoid them. The

important thing is to once and for all determine what it is YOU REALLY WANT and then start living your life from

that standpoint (maybe I'm generalizing too much here - but it worked for me).

Once I realized that all I

wanted from an initial encounter from a woman was a good conversation and a hope for something in the future -

everything opened up and here I am now.

I wish I figured this all out 20 years ago. It had been staring me in

the face all along. I first realized I wanted a "meaningful relationship" when I was 16. Why the hell did it take me

over 20 years to finally sit down and figure out what I was saying to myself? Better late than never.

[franki]

This fits into my "act like you

don't care (to get laid) strategy". Now if it wouldn't be so hard to follow that strategy..

[DrSmellThis]

Nice post, Chemist.

[belgareth]

Chemist,

You've got it!

Congratulations on both the mind set and an excellent post.

Belgareth

[Holmes]

Good stuff, Chemist.

[DZorro]

wow, big post. Great post there

Chemist.





DZorro,

[Mtnjim]

Hey Dude!

Long time no read.

Good to see ya.
Lots of new faces, lots of the old timers gone.
By the way, congratulations!!

[koolking1]

wow Chemist - good deal!!!!

The ladies may correct me if I'm wrong, and I sometimes am, but my feeling is that most women like to know that a

guy is capable of finding another women if he so desires, it makes him a 'non-wacko' and therefore suitable.

Again, good for you!!!!!

[Pancho1188]

I am capable of finding plenty

of women...now getting them to go out with me is a different story...

[Sexyredhead]

wow Chemist

- good deal!!!! The ladies may correct me if I'm wrong, and I sometimes am, but my feeling is that most women like

to know that a guy is capable of finding another women if he so desires, it makes him a 'non-wacko' and therefore

suitable. Again, good for you!!!!!

I dunno. I really like what Chemist had to say, but there's

also something to be said for the guy drooling over my shoulder while trying to look down my top.

[bigdog]

Right on Chemist. Confidence is

such a big plus as well as learning how to become the pursuee not the pursuer. I have had tremendous success

especially after listening to David DeAngelo. I used to call the next day or email and wouldn't get many resposes

back. Now I find women wonder if I'm still interested and are the ones contacting me all the time.

I must

add that those that buy pheromones and expect that to be a cure all are in for a rude awakening. Pheromones can

certainly help but if one doesn't have the confidence, sense of humor, or approach pheromones will be of little

worth to them IMO.

[CptKipling]

Congrats Chemist

[Sunny]

This fits into my

"act like you don't care (to get laid) strategy". Now if it wouldn't be so hard to follow that strategy..

Chemist, what you write is the best post about this topic I have read for a long time. I fully

agree!!!

Franki, it's hard to follow a strategy of acting. You basically suggest to act like someone you

aren't. Chemist suggests the opposite: To determine and decide who you actually are and then just be you,

consistently, with determination! That's not acting (like pretending).

Sunny

[a.k.a.]

Once I realized

that all I wanted from an initial encounter from a woman was a good conversation and a hope for something in the

future ...

Interesting, and good point. These are the things I've given up on.

[jose]

Nice post Chemist.

[fran1]

ok, ok, ok, ok. Tell us what do you

use chemist? Which one work the best for you?

[Chemist]

I currently have

APC, PPA, PI-w, PI-m, PF-m, PF-f, and SP oils. I now use 3 drops of Pi-w and two dabs of PF-f most of the time mixed

with some sort of AXE spray applied first to my wrists to mix, then spread on my hair and shirt using my wrists. I

sometimes put two dabs of PPA in there if I want to be a little more domineering.

The important thing for my

approach is to get the women talking about themselves and constantly laughing. I think the -nol really helps make it

a little easier - however, without the mones, it would still happen - just a little less often. Without the proper

mindset - mones would not do anything for me. I spent 4+ years using them and did notice subtle effects - but no

where near as dramatic as once I changed my behavior - that was the key. The mones were just the grease for the

wheel.

Also very important is NOT TO TALK ABOUT MYSELF UNLESS ASKED or unless it is to point out something I

have in common with what the woman just said. It is vitally important that I DO NOT TRY TO CONVINCE THE GIRL WHAT A

GREAT GUY I AM BY TALKING ABOUT MYSELF - counterintuitively, this seems to have the reverse effect. Much of what I

concluded is counterintuitive and makes very little logical sense - but it works for me and I believe it will also

work for someone sincerely looking for a "meaningful relationship".

This is not to discount the power of

mones - as I still use them and will continue to do so.

[happyman]

Good Post Chemist, It's truely

great you found what you were looking for.

Well I look at it as this. Be confident, have a care free bold

approrach, and yes most importantly be honest and be yourself. One day you will wake up and say like every married

guy or older dude ......"man, if I was your age I would be hitting on everything I could....aghhhh If I could only

do it again". A good attitude, dress, and some pheromones and your ready to go. It isn't rocket science. And I

wouldn't want someone to like me for something I pretend to be.
I would want them to like me for what I am. But

that's the thing, women don't care so much what you are as long as you act like you are fine with it. They love a

guy who knows who he is and knows what he's about and is not ashamed to present it without cramming it down anyones

throught. Just be yourself and be funny and don't worry what anyone thinks. Now, that's a man.
Not some young

punk who tries to act like he's a bad-boy. That's stupid.


Ian

[Watcher]

Only one comment - some guys can

pull off the acting part - but as chemist said make it part of youre appraoch to life on an instinctive level and it

starts to happen. Not always successfully but occasionally it helps to pull back from being so desperate even if

just for a few months and get stock of youre life and start to focus on youreself while remaining one eye open to

opportunities but dont become obsessed if it doesnt pan out - keep the focus on you and youre development and life

and thigns can happen.

Pheromons are useful for a whole lot more though - better social interactions,

business success, getting an audience, getting people to open up and be around you - it reduces their

defensiveness.

[franki]

Chemist, what you

write is the best post about this topic I have read for a long time. I fully agree!!!

Franki, it's hard to

follow a strategy of acting. You basically suggest to act like someone you aren't. Chemist suggests the

opposite: To determine and decide who you actually are and then just be you, consistently, with determination!

That's not acting (like pretending).

Sunny

Good point! The acting strategy is more easy to use

though, and might be the first step in the right direction, if you know what I mean....

[Watcher]

Its not so much acting its

changing youre normal behaviour and then trying to make it believeable, instinctive, NATURAL instead of put on -

that is the trick. But youre core values are harder to cover up long term - you cant keep it up. So taking some

time to look at youreself and determine youre values and appraoch to life could be helpful - to much self inspection

can lead you going nowhere but doing it in a targetted and self improving way can do wonders for ones

confidence.

But 10% of the world is always going to disagree with everything you do - thats a fact of life.

[Sunny]

Good point! The

acting strategy is more easy to use though, and might be the first step in the right direction, if you know

what I mean....

Yes I know what you mean. In behavioral therapy you sometimes strictly act as, pretend,

e.g. you were over your ex wife when you are in her presence, although you feel totally miserable inside. The value

of doing this is that your subconscious mind realizes: Hey, I can do it, it's not that bad! And it eventually

starts to believe you are over it.

Sunny

[koolking1]

One of the nicest things

about this forum is that there are some really helpful people on here trying to assist others in finding some

measure of happiness in their quest for a relationship. I subscribe to another board that pertains to Thailand for

the travel stories but there's a sub-group of older men on there that pretty much have given up and are looking for

a cute young Thai girl (read: hooker) for lifelong companionship. I would urge all you guys on here still hoping

for a decent relationship to take these helpful suggestions on this board and put them to practice. You really

don't want to know how pathetic sounding/acting some of these people on that other board I mentioned are. This is

the right place for you guys. Follow Chemist's example and don't give up till you get it right and find that

dreamgirl of yours.

[kossBass]

One of the

nicest things about this forum is that there are some really helpful people on here trying to assist others in

finding some measure of happiness in their quest for a relationship.

i agree .. special thanks to watcher

and DST very help dudes thankz yo

[kossBass]

helpful** sorry

[Watcher]

Chemist has stumbled across a very

insightful way of living.

Hang around here long enough and you come across many a useful insights.